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Groups > comp.sys.mac.portables > #1238 > unrolled thread

Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro.

Started byant@zimage.comANT (Ant)
First post2019-04-02 13:05 -0500
Last post2019-04-06 08:00 -0400
Articles 20 on this page of 75 — 12 participants

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Contents

  Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-04-02 13:05 -0500
    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-02 11:12 -0700
      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-04-02 13:23 -0500
        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. YK <xxxxx@dialme.com> - 2019-04-02 19:29 -0400
          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-02 16:31 -0700
        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2019-04-04 21:10 +0200
          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-04-04 18:22 -0400
            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-04 18:36 -0400
              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-04-08 09:57 -0400
            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-04-05 04:04 +0000
              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Wade Garrett <wade@cooler.net> - 2019-04-08 10:10 -0400
            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2019-04-07 14:47 +0200
          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-04-04 22:32 -0500
            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 08:29 -0400
              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-04-05 15:52 +0000
                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 12:40 -0400
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 17:49 +0100
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 12:54 -0400
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 17:59 +0100
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 13:10 -0400
              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-05 15:08 -0400
                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 20:29 +0100
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 15:35 -0400
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 21:59 +0100
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 17:04 -0400
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:31 +0100
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-05 14:33 -0700
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:36 +0100
                              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-05 14:55 -0700
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 17:37 -0400
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-05 14:56 -0700
                              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 18:01 -0400
                              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Panthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com> - 2019-04-05 18:07 -0400
                                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-05 15:15 -0700
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Baker <nunya@ness.biz> - 2019-04-05 14:08 -0700
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:32 +0100
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 17:37 -0400
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Panthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com> - 2019-04-05 17:35 -0400
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2019-04-05 20:04 +0000
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 16:26 -0400
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:50 +0100
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 18:01 -0400
                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 15:35 -0400
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 20:40 +0100
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> - 2019-04-05 20:05 +0000
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-04-05 20:06 +0000
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Panthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com> - 2019-04-05 16:17 -0400
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Panthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com> - 2019-04-05 16:14 -0400
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:19 +0100
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 17:37 -0400
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-05 22:44 +0100
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-05 17:50 -0400
                              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 16:55 +0100
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 10:40 -0400
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-06 11:29 -0400
                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 15:13 -0400
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2019-04-06 19:57 +0000
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 17:08 -0400
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-07 21:05 -0400
                        Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-06 15:58 -0400
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2019-04-06 20:04 +0000
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 17:10 -0400
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 17:13 -0400
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-07 21:05 -0400
                              Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 11:58 +0100
                                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-08 10:07 -0400
                                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 16:11 +0100
                                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-08 11:19 -0400
                                      Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-08 20:23 +0100
                          Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2019-04-06 17:29 -0400
                            Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-07 21:05 -0400
                Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. ant@zimage.comANT (Ant) - 2019-04-05 21:55 -0500
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> - 2019-04-06 09:52 +0100
                    Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-06 08:00 -0400
                  Re: Unable to boot up a 15" 2008 MacBook Pro. nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2019-04-06 08:00 -0400

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#1280

FromDavid in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com>
Date2019-04-05 22:50 +0100
Message-ID<U4QpE.61916$0n2.40752@fx28.fr7>
In reply to#1260
On 05/04/2019 21:04, danny burstein wrote:
> [snippeth]
> 
>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>
>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> 
>> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> 
> this is, indeed, a real issue.  Sometimes...
> 
> The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
> be more than the transformer can provide.
> 
> For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
> provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
> be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.
> 
> However, when the drives start up (and other items
> with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
> get 100 watts.  Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
> or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
> than the power cord will have at hand.
> 
> The battery provides those extra electrons...

This sounds plausible. Thank you.

Perhaps a failing in early Apple laptops?

I have no experience of an Apple laptop - just an iMac for the past 10 
years and an iPad and iPhones for less time.

D.

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#1283

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-05 18:01 -0400
Message-ID<050420191801283399%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1280
In article <U4QpE.61916$0n2.40752@fx28.fr7>, David in Devon
<BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>>
> >>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> > 
> >> Exactly why *I* asked nospam.
> > 
> > this is, indeed, a real issue.  Sometimes...
> > 
> > The power draw as the drive starts spinning up might easily
> > be more than the transformer can provide.
> > 
> > For argument's sake, let's just say the wall wart can
> > provide 50 watts. The basic draw of the unit might
> > be 35. Call it 45 when charging the battery.
> > 
> > However, when the drives start up (and other items
> > with initial surges, too), they might be trying to
> > get 100 watts.  Yeah, only for a couple of seconds,
> > or maybe just a fraction of one, but that's more
> > than the power cord will have at hand.
> > 
> > The battery provides those extra electrons...
> 
> This sounds plausible. Thank you.
> 
> Perhaps a failing in early Apple laptops?

no, nor is it specific to apple.

> I have no experience of an Apple laptop - just an iMac for the past 10 
> years and an iPad and iPhones for less time.

then stop pretending that you do and bashing others for having answers.

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#1257

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-05 15:35 -0400
Message-ID<050420191535549194%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1255
In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrBnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>
> >> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> > 
> > don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> > there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> 
> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?

because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
alone can source.

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#1259

FromDavid in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com>
Date2019-04-05 20:40 +0100
Message-ID<TaOpE.846$Df6.572@fx30.fr7>
In reply to#1257
On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:
> In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrBnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>
>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>
>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>
>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> 
> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> alone can source.

Bullshit

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#1261

Fromdanny burstein <dannyb@panix.com>
Date2019-04-05 20:05 +0000
Message-ID<q88cdc$rv$2@reader2.panix.com>
In reply to#1259
In <TaOpE.846$Df6.572@fx30.fr7> David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> writes:

>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>> alone can source.

>Bullshit

Do you enjoy demonstrating just how dumb you are?

-- 
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
		     dannyb@panix.com 
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]

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#1262

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2019-04-05 20:06 +0000
Message-ID<ggpqp9Fh6i9U4@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#1261
On 2019-04-05, danny burstein <dannyb@panix.com> wrote:
> In <TaOpE.846$Df6.572@fx30.fr7> David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> writes:
>
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
>
>>Bullshit
>
> Do you enjoy demonstrating just how dumb you are?

It's his forte.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#1264

FromPanthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com>
Date2019-04-05 16:17 -0400
Message-ID<q88d56$l71$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1261
On 2019-04-05 16:05, danny burstein wrote:
> In <TaOpE.846$Df6.572@fx30.fr7> David in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> writes:
> 
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
> 
>> Bullshit
> 
> Do you enjoy demonstrating just how dumb you are?
> 
He must, he does it so often.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1263

FromPanthera Tigris Altaica <northentiger@outlook.com>
Date2019-04-05 16:14 -0400
Message-ID<q88cvf$l71$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#1259
On 2019-04-05 15:40, David in Devon wrote:
> On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:
>> In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrBnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up 
>>>>> normally.
>>>>
>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>
>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>
>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>> alone can source.
> 
> Bullshit

It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work 
with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power 
necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power 
as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops 
would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only 
for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery 
would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user 
could just get a more powerful charger.

Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard 
iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU 
intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly. 
If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the 
Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad, 
this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose 
charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm 
running intensive apps on it.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1269

FromDavid in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com>
Date2019-04-05 22:19 +0100
Message-ID<kDPpE.1836$0E1.177@fx22.fr7>
In reply to#1263
On 05/04/2019 21:14, Panthera Tigris Altaica wrote:
> On 2019-04-05 15:40, David in Devon wrote:
>> On 05/04/2019 20:35, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrBnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's 
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up 
>>>>>> normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
>>
>> Bullshit
> 
> It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work 
> with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power 
> necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power 
> as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops 
> would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only 
> for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery 
> would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user 
> could just get a more powerful charger.
> 
> Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard 
> iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU 
> intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly. 
> If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the 
> Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad, 
> this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose 
> charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm 
> running intensive apps on it.

Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)

I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience. I have 
used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem 
running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.

The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no 
problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad 
but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand 
new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?

-- 
David B.
Devon, UK

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#1275

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-05 17:37 -0400
Message-ID<050420191737518311%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1269
In article <kDPpE.1836$0E1.177@fx22.fr7>, David in Devon
<BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>
> >>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>
> >>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>> alone can source.
> >>
> >> Bullshit
> > 
> > It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work 
> > with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power 
> > necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power 
> > as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops 
> > would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only 
> > for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery 
> > would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user 
> > could just get a more powerful charger.
> > 
> > Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard 
> > iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU 
> > intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly. 
> > If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the 
> > Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad, 
> > this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose 
> > charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm 
> > running intensive apps on it.
> 
> Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)
> 
> I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience.

then why did you say bullshit?

> I have 
> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem 
> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.

what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
in the same manner.

> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no 
> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad 
> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand 
> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?

yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1278

FromDavid in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com>
Date2019-04-05 22:44 +0100
Message-ID<N_PpE.847$Df6.299@fx30.fr7>
In reply to#1275
On 05/04/2019 22:37, nospam wrote:
> In article <kDPpE.1836$0E1.177@fx22.fr7>, David in Devon
> <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>>> alone can source.
>>>>
>>>> Bullshit
>>>
>>> It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work
>>> with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power
>>> necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power
>>> as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops
>>> would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only
>>> for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery
>>> would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user
>>> could just get a more powerful charger.
>>>
>>> Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard
>>> iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU
>>> intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly.
>>> If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the
>>> Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad,
>>> this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose
>>> charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm
>>> running intensive apps on it.
>>
>> Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)
>>
>> I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience.
> 
> then why did you say bullshit?

Maybe because so many of your responses on Usenet newsgroups are totally 
unreliable.

>> I have
>> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
>> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.
> 
> what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
> and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
> but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
> experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
> in the same manner.

True

>> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
>> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
>> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
>> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?
> 
> yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.

You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.

I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.


D.

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#1279

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-05 17:50 -0400
Message-ID<050420191750283782%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1278
In article <N_PpE.847$Df6.299@fx30.fr7>, David in Devon
<BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>>>> alone can source.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bullshit
> >>>
> >>> It depends on the charger. Apple made multiple chargers which would work
> >>> with that model. The lower-end ones simply didn't provide the power
> >>> necessary to run the CPU at max by themselves, they needed battery power
> >>> as well. This meant that, yes, when running at full power, the laptops
> >>> would slowly lose charge even when plugged in. Fortunately this was only
> >>> for peak CPU usage, which was not usually prolonged, so the battery
> >>> would start to charge again when the CPU usage went down. Or the user
> >>> could just get a more powerful charger.
> >>>
> >>> Note that this still happens with some devices. If I use the standard
> >>> iPhone charger with my iPhone 6 while I'm running something CPU
> >>> intensive, such as Civilization 6, the iPhone will lose charge, slowly.
> >>> If I use a more powerful charger, either a 3rd-party charger such as the
> >>> Belkin I normally carry in my laptop bag, or the charger for an iPad,
> >>> this does not happen. The iPad itself has been known to slowly lose
> >>> charge when plugged into the USB port in my car, a Toyota, if I'm
> >>> running intensive apps on it.
> >>
> >> Thank you for your sensible answer. :-)
> >>
> >> I've never owned an Apple laptop so defer to your experience.
> > 
> > then why did you say bullshit?
> 
> Maybe because so many of your responses on Usenet newsgroups are totally 
> unreliable.

more accurately, because you're trolling.

> >> I have
> >> used other types of laptop since the 1980's and have never had a problem
> >> running on a power supply with or without the battery being fitted.
> > 
> > what other mystery unnamed laptops you supposedly used do is irrelevant
> > and it's highly unlikely you know how to properly determine anything,
> > but even if you didn't notice a speed decrease in your very limited
> > experience, that doesn't mean all other laptops ever made will function
> > in the same manner.
> 
> True

in other words, you're wrong yet again.

> >> The inverter on my narrowboat isn't a pure sine wave device. I've had no
> >> problem so far, over a number of years, in charging our iPhones and iPad
> >> but am just a little concerned that I may have a problem with my brand
> >> new iPad Pro. Do you have sufficient knowledge to comment on this?
> > 
> > yes, i do. in fact, more than sufficient.
> 
> You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.

wrong. i helped in this very thread.

> I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.

you have *no* idea what my experience is with any product and your
question is not specific to an ipad pro anyway.

in fact, it's clear that you don't understand what it is you're even
asking.

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#1311

FromDavid in Devon <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com>
Date2019-04-08 16:55 +0100
Message-ID<G9KqE.14874$YQ7.13982@fx03.fr7>
In reply to#1279
On 05/04/2019 22:50, nospam wrote:
> In article <N_PpE.847$Df6.299@fx30.fr7>, David in Devon
> <BDonTJ@REMOVE.gmail.com> wrote:
[....]
>> You so often boast, but then fail to help others with their queries.
> 
> wrong. i helped in this very thread.

I don't think you've helped in ANY way. :-(

>> I doubt you have ANY experience with the new iPad Pro.
> 
> you have *no* idea what my experience is with any product and your
> question is not specific to an ipad pro anyway.
> 
> in fact, it's clear that you don't understand what it is you're even
> asking.

*Do* you have ANY hands-on experience with the new iMac Pro?

D.

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#1291

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-04-06 10:40 -0400
Message-ID<WNadncK4XKTCJzXBnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#1257
On 2019-04-05 15:35, nospam wrote:
> In article <qYydnZ4WX4YxOjrBnZ2dnUU7-cmdnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>
>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>
>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>
>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> 
> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> alone can source.

Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then 
the battery would deplete.

So I wouldn't be too concerned with that configuration.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1292

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-06 11:29 -0400
Message-ID<060420191129213845%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1291
In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXBnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
> >>>
> >>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>
> >> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> > 
> > because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> > alone can source.
> 
> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then 
> the battery would deplete.

constant isn't the problem. 

*any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
possibility, it runs slower.

> So I wouldn't be too concerned with that configuration.

there's no need to be concerned because it works perfectly fine, just
slower.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1293

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-04-06 15:13 -0400
Message-ID<1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXBnZ2dnUU7-RHNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#1292
On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:
> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXBnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> 
>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>
>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>
>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>
>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>> alone can source.
>>
>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then
>> the battery would deplete.
> 
> constant isn't the problem.
> 
> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> possibility, it runs slower.

So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work.  Easy 
enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the 
power consumption reported by iStat.  I just need to rig a connector for 
the amp meter.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1294

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2019-04-06 19:57 +0000
Message-ID<slrnqai14v.24qs.g.kreme@rey.lan>
In reply to#1293
In message <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXBnZ2dnUU7-RHNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
> On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:
>> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXBnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> 
>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>
>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>> alone can source.
>>>
>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then
>>> the battery would deplete.
>> 
>> constant isn't the problem.
>> 
>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>> possibility, it runs slower.

> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.

> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work.  Easy 
> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the 
> power consumption reported by iStat.  I just need to rig a connector for 
> the amp meter.

You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
hand.

-- 
You can find any pattern you want to any level of precision you want If you
ignore enough data.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1297

FromAlan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com>
Date2019-04-06 17:08 -0400
Message-ID<Cqudnf-u-YGsiDTBnZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#1294
On 2019-04-06 15:57, Lewis wrote:
> In message <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXBnZ2dnUU7-RHNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>> On 2019-04-06 11:29, nospam wrote:
>>> In article <WNadncK4XKTCJzXBnZ2dnUU7-K2dnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
>>> <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
>>>>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up normally.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
>>>>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
>>>>>
>>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
>>>>> alone can source.
>>>>
>>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then
>>>> the battery would deplete.
>>>
>>> constant isn't the problem.
>>>
>>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
>>> possibility, it runs slower.
> 
>> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
> 
> Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.

At which point it will just run slower than usual.  So no issue, really.

> 
>> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work.  Easy
>> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
>> power consumption reported by iStat.  I just need to rig a connector for
>> the amp meter.
> 
> You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
> been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
> hand.

Of course it will.  It's all in how one sets up the experiment.

If the computer is running full tilt and the external power supply can't 
keep up then I should see the battery charge level fall.  Keeping it at 
(or near) peak for extended periods is easy enough using CPU efficient 
apps like handbrake.

I'll also see the current max out on the external power supply while the 
iStat data should show more total power being used than that delivered 
by the external power supply.

Unfortunately I'm traveling a lot this week so I won't get to it until 
after the 15th or so.

-- 
"2/3 of Donald Trump's wives were immigrants.  Proof that we
  need immigrants to do jobs that most Americans wouldn't do."
                                           - unknown protester

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1303

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-07 21:05 -0400
Message-ID<070420192105056320%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1297
In article <Cqudnf-u-YGsiDTBnZ2dnUU7-QHNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>>>> alone can source.
> >>>>
> >>>> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then
> >>>> the battery would deplete.
> >>>
> >>> constant isn't the problem.
> >>>
> >>> *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> >>> possibility, it runs slower.
> > 
> >> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.
> > 
> > Untrue. The computer will hit peak demand at times for any user.
> 
> At which point it will just run slower than usual.  So no issue, really.

at that point, it's too late, so yes issue.

> >> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work.  Easy
> >> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the
> >> power consumption reported by iStat.  I just need to rig a connector for
> >> the amp meter.
> > 
> > You need to run the test on a laptop with a removable battery that has
> > been removed. Your proposed test will show nothing about the topic at
> > hand.
> 
> Of course it will.  It's all in how one sets up the experiment.

except that what you've described won't do that.

> If the computer is running full tilt and the external power supply can't 
> keep up then I should see the battery charge level fall.  Keeping it at 
> (or near) peak for extended periods is easy enough using CPU efficient 
> apps like handbrake.

a single sudden spike won't cause a noticeable change in battery charge
level.

> I'll also see the current max out on the external power supply while the 
> iStat data should show more total power being used than that delivered 
> by the external power supply.

you might see it max out, but that doesn't tell you what would happen
with a spike, which you won't be able to invoke on demand.

> Unfortunately I'm traveling a lot this week so I won't get to it until 
> after the 15th or so.

best to use that time to rethink what you're testing.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#1295

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2019-04-06 15:58 -0400
Message-ID<060420191558131972%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#1293
In article <1fWdnbZdaJ3CZzXBnZ2dnUU7-RHNnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

> >>>>>> My client didn't want a new battery since he rarely uses it. It's very
> >>>>>> old and slow. We kept its battery slot empty so it can boot up
> >>>>>> normally.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> don't do that. without a battery, it will run significantly slower and
> >>>>> there is also the risk of a sudden shutdown if there's a power glitch.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why would it run slower if it's on its main power connector?
> >>>
> >>> because peak demands can potentially be above what the power adapter
> >>> alone can source.
> >>
> >> Few run their laptop at peak demand constantly.  And if they did then
> >> the battery would deplete.
> > 
> > constant isn't the problem.
> > 
> > *any* peak demand could cause an unexpected shutdown, and to avoid that
> > possibility, it runs slower.
> 
> So there is no issue at all for the ordinary user.

there absolutely is, which is why it's done, and not just apple either.

> Anyway I'm fascinated and going to try this on an MBA at work.  Easy 
> enough to load it up, put the P/S on an ampere meter and compare the 
> power consumption reported by iStat.  I just need to rig a connector for 
> the amp meter.

the proper test is a benchmark, with and without a battery. for the
latter, you will need to disassemble it.

fortunately, that's been done:
<https://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-macbook-pro-battery-benchmarks,
6643.html>
  Gearlog¹s own results show a decrease of 36 percent in processor
  speeds without a battery attached on their unibody MacBook Pro. Our
  own tests show a decrease of 50 percent when rendering with one CPU,
  a decrease of 52 percent in multiprocessor rendering, while the GPU
  suffered a 40 percent decrease in performance. 


as i said, it ain't just apple:
<https://superuser.com/questions/344230/laptop-running-slower-without-ba
ttery-attached>
  I have a Thinkpad T520 and I'm monitoring my CPU using CPU-Z.

  For some reason, when I detach the battery, the CPU only run till
  800MHz. Whereas when I run using battery power, it goes up to 
  2.3GHz. I notice the difference in speed when I take the battery out.
  This is the reason why I investigated in the first place.
...
  This behavior is by design. Without the battery, the laptop's power
  management system cannot accommodate power spikes that occur 
  when the CPU goes from a halted state to an active state. The laptop
  is simply not designed to operate without a battery.

  You might get away with it with some power supplies. But the laptop
  is simply not designed to work that way. The battery acts like a
  cushion to make up temporary power shortfalls.


<https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-L-R-and-SL-series/Hi-R60-running-
slow-without-battery-on-AC-power-only/td-p/80565>
  What you're experiencing is perfectly normal. Your laptop was not
  designed to run at full power/speed without battery.
...
  Thinkpads are designed in such way that when the battery is detached
  or in some cases when the battery is not working, the speed of the
  CPU is throttled to prevent power shortage. The battery acts as
  source of power, when the peak power requirements from the laptop
  with 65 w power supply exceeds what the power adapter can supply. 

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