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Groups > comp.sys.mac.comm > #1723 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2013-10-27 09:41 -0700 |
| Last post | 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 289 — 45 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.comm
Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-27 09:41 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 11:56 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-16 15:20 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-10-27 13:01 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 12:36 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 14:41 -0500
Re: Newsreaders snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk (Sn!pe) - 2013-10-27 19:58 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 15:05 -0500
Re: Newsreaders snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk (Sn!pe) - 2013-10-27 20:42 +0000
Re: Newsreaders dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-10-28 10:23 +1100
Thoth (not) breaking long URL (was: Newsreaders) "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-28 09:37 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 19:57 +0000
Re: Newsreaders gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-10-27 19:16 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:21 -0500
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-28 10:58 +1300
Re: Newsreaders M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2013-10-27 19:24 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-27 23:42 +0000
Re: Newsreaders M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2013-10-27 20:09 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 19:16 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-28 00:16 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:11 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-28 13:54 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 09:01 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 09:09 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 20:44 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 01:26 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 21:04 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 02:11 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 22:01 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 03:40 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-28 17:26 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:17 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:16 -0500
Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-28 14:20 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 13:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:43 -0500
Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-11-15 15:29 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-11-15 09:26 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Ted Lee <tmplee@mr.net> - 2013-10-27 20:30 -0500
Re: Newsreaders AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-28 11:02 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-28 00:48 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 15:16 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 15:16 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-10-28 15:21 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-28 08:31 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-10-28 08:57 -0700
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-29 05:25 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 09:22 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-10-28 21:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 13:29 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-29 01:43 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 05:04 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 18:25 +1300
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-29 01:33 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 05:37 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 19:25 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 07:25 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-29 04:07 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 09:00 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 10:24 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 09:26 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-29 21:35 +0000
Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2013-10-29 16:28 -0700
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 13:33 +1300
Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2013-10-29 23:14 -0700
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 21:43 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 12:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-31 09:31 +1300
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-31 08:52 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 19:36 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 12:42 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 09:29 +1300
Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-10-30 16:44 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 23:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-31 13:15 +1300
Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-29 10:10 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-29 08:36 -0500
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 10:25 +1300
Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2013-11-05 20:31 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-08 00:49 +0200
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-07 18:42 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-08 02:05 +0000
Re: Newsreaders me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-02-08 16:12 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 15:21 -0600
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-08 20:01 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-02-08 18:09 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 21:48 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 20:51 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-02-28 12:19 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-09 01:40 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 21:50 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-09 19:26 +0200
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-09 17:31 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-09 23:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-09 23:44 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-10 02:01 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-02-10 10:00 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-11 13:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-02-11 09:51 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-11 18:55 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-11 23:28 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-09 19:40 -0600
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-10 04:34 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-08 02:04 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-08 03:33 +0000
Re: Newsreaders android <here@there.was> - 2014-02-09 09:50 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-09 16:19 +0200
Re: Newsreaders android <here@there.was> - 2014-02-09 09:53 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-27 04:07 -0700
Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-03-27 14:45 +0100
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-27 14:18 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:50 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 00:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-27 14:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-27 13:10 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-27 20:14 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-28 01:26 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 14:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 01:41 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:43 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 06:29 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-28 14:47 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 20:36 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 19:22 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:47 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:26 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 14:51 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 14:00 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 20:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 17:08 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 21:13 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 19:10 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:46 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 01:45 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:23 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-28 17:09 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 21:18 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:29 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 20:15 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 00:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 21:28 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:21 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:15 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-29 16:37 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 20:44 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-29 17:58 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 00:07 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:26 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:17 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:25 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:53 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:46 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 17:32 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-27 22:33 +0000
Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 01:33 +0000
Re: Newsreaders TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-03-27 22:16 -0500
Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 05:10 +0000
Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-27 21:03 -0700
Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 05:11 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 06:12 +0000
Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-28 10:32 -0700
Re: Newsreaders DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-03-28 12:53 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:18 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:16 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:56 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:49 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 17:33 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 18:25 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 02:00 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:32 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 20:43 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 03:16 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-29 14:40 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 03:23 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 00:02 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-29 21:38 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 07:43 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-30 08:30 -0700
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 11:36 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:18 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 16:34 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:20 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-01 20:46 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-01 09:37 -0700
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-01 04:22 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 21:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-31 13:53 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-31 01:02 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:23 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:49 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:24 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-01 09:39 -0700
Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-04-20 20:46 +0200
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-20 14:52 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-20 18:53 +0000
Re: Newsreaders dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-21 10:45 +1200
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-21 02:08 +0000
Re: Newsreaders dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-21 15:07 +1200
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-21 04:22 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-21 11:58 -0500
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 13:05 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-21 23:49 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 20:53 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-22 03:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-04-22 12:03 +0200
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-22 17:32 -0500
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-23 18:08 +1200
Re: Newsreaders Gordon Sande <Gordon.Sande@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 17:05 -0300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-21 05:41 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:13 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:32 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:20 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:38 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:08 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 10:01 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:24 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-30 14:54 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:43 -0400
Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:45 -0400
Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-30 19:46 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-31 14:55 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:30 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:43 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:36 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-29 23:36 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 07:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:35 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:14 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:35 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 22:59 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:18 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-01 04:22 -0400
Re: Newsreaders TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-04-01 08:11 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 23:59 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-02 02:14 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-01 09:05 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-01 16:51 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-01 17:51 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-02 00:03 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-01 17:06 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 22:56 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-30 15:17 +0000
Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 11:22 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:38 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:39 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:26 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 21:17 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:04 -0500
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:27 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-31 14:28 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-31 12:41 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:28 +0000
Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-04-01 23:47 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:33 +0000
Re: Newsreaders FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:49 -0400
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
Re: Newsreaders DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-03-28 09:03 -0700
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
Re: Newsreaders gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-28 09:17 -0700
Re: Newsreaders sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-03-28 20:52 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-28 16:00 -0700
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:06 +0000
Re: Newsreaders sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-03-29 03:00 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 23:51 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:48 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Buster Friendly <lah@de.da.ru.ru> - 2015-03-29 09:01 -0400
Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2015-03-29 15:33 +0200
Re: Newsreaders Buster Friendly <lah@de.da.ru.ru> - 2015-03-29 09:40 -0400
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 17:04 +0000
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-30 13:37 +1300
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:28 +0000
Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-28 15:59 -0700
Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
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| From | Gordon Sande <Gordon.Sande@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-20 17:05 -0300 |
| Message-ID | <mh3m40$j22$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2721 |
On 2015-04-20 18:46:12 +0000, Marc Stibane said: > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>> On 2015-03-31, D.F. Manno <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote: > >>>> There are reasons they scrapped OS 9 and started from scratch on X. >>> Yes, because they bought NeXT, adopted that OS, and renamed it. >> That is the major reason they bought NeXT, so they could scrap Mac OS 9 >> and start from scratch. > > And there was nothing wrong with that - because of "Classic", a > compatibility layer that allowed you to execute MacOS 9 applications on > OS X. > > This was a nice working software, and I really don't understand why > Apple ever stopped supporting it. They should even have ported it to > Intel IMO - would have gotten them a few more hardware sales. MacOs bacame a problem for Apple so they tried to replace it. There is much history of a project called "Pink" IIRC. BeOs was in the mix but NextStep which was based on Uix was a better solution. There is much discussion of this history if you go looking for it. Much the same story played out over Windows 3 and Windows NT as the fancy file loading systems could just not cut it for mutitasking and protection.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-21 05:41 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmjbopm.m6.g.kreme@amelia.local> |
| In reply to | #2721 |
In message <1m36p7h.11f79z8a0gzgrN@marc.my-fqdn.de> Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote: > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: >>> On 2015-03-31, D.F. Manno <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote: >>>> There are reasons they scrapped OS 9 and started from scratch on X. >>> Yes, because they bought NeXT, adopted that OS, and renamed it. >> That is the major reason they bought NeXT, so they could scrap Mac OS 9 >> and start from scratch. > And there was nothing wrong with that - because of "Classic", a > compatibility layer that allowed you to execute MacOS 9 applications on > OS X. > This was a nice working software, and I really don't understand why > Apple ever stopped supporting it. They should even have ported it to > Intel IMO - would have gotten them a few more hardware sales. Their sales have been increasing steadily since the switch to Intel. -- NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT MY SCIATICA Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF09
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| From | Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 23:13 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhk7nn.feb.timmcn@sugaree-2.local> |
| In reply to | #2660 |
On 30 Mar 2015 20:18:57 GMT, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > > Fine, replace the old tech, but do not break the old APIs. That's > almost always very do-able. But Apple doesn't give a shit, really. > They say they're all about the user, until it requires some extra > effort or is less interesting to do. LOL! Or if it costs $500,000 to make sure software that one dude wants to run still works.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 15:32 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cnt8k6Fbj9lU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2644 |
On 2015-03-30, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > On 2015-03-30, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> The more they do that, the more complex the code becomes, and the more >> difficult it is to maintain it. > > Not my problem. Are you saying they CAN'T do it or that they SHOULDN'T > do it? Why defend them? They chose this situation. You're the odd man out. Most app developers defend them because they know it's the right thing to do. And if MT-NW had been updated in the past umpteen years, it, too, would not use Open Transport anymore, and would continue to work on the latest versions of OS X. >> By your argument, the current OS should be able to run the original >> MacWrite from 1984. > > Ideally, yes. As I said, I'd like to use Word 5.0a. Not so much > MacWrite/MacPaint, but SuperPaint? Hell yes!! Microphone? Maybe. :-> > After Dark? PageMaker? etc. > > They chose to change the environment in such a way to break these > products. Which is a good thing. OS X is more stable, more secure, and much more capable than classic Mac OS X, and getting rid of all of the classic APIs has allowed that to happen without holding things back in the dark ages. Good riddance. > They could have rearranged things to make their jobs easier > AND maintained the environment, but they didn't. That's untrue. Do you have any software development experience? Supporting all of that old cruft makes their jobs *harder*, which is why eventually a decision is made to replace it with newer and better technologies. > So yes, I'm a bit upset with them. That's irrational. > I wish I knew of a better OS with commercial software > support for things like Photoshop and Word, as well as the myriad other > programs I've found useful at times, but nope, not yet. Good luck with that. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 20:20 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhjc0l.kg7.howard@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #2653 |
On 2015-03-30, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: > That's untrue. Do you have any software development experience? Yes, a couple of decades of it. > Supporting all of that old cruft makes their jobs *harder*, which is why > eventually a decision is made to replace it with newer and better > technologies. You can usually maintain old APIs as front ends for new ones.
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 20:38 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cntqhoFg7qmU5@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2661 |
On 2015-03-30, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > On 2015-03-30, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote: >> That's untrue. Do you have any software development experience? > > Yes, a couple of decades of it. Same here, and yet while I'm able to clearly understand why Apple might remove support for old, crufty shit, you are not able. >> Supporting all of that old cruft makes their jobs *harder*, which is why >> eventually a decision is made to replace it with newer and better >> technologies. > > You can usually maintain old APIs as front ends for new ones. At a cost, and that cost is sometimes not worth it. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 23:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhk7df.feb.timmcn@sugaree-2.local> |
| In reply to | #2644 |
On 30 Mar 2015 07:43:44 GMT, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > On 2015-03-30, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> The more they do that, the more complex the code becomes, and the >> more difficult it is to maintain it. > > Not my problem. Are you saying they CAN'T do it or that they > SHOULDN'T do it? Why defend them? They chose this situation. > > >> By your argument, the current OS should be able to run the original >> MacWrite from 1984. > > Ideally, yes. As I said, I'd like to use Word 5.0a. Not so much > MacWrite/MacPaint, but SuperPaint? Hell yes!! Microphone? Maybe. > :-> After Dark? PageMaker? etc. > > They chose to change the environment in such a way to break these > products. They could have rearranged things to make their jobs easier > AND maintained the environment, but they didn't. So yes, I'm a bit > upset with them. I wish I knew of a better OS with commercial > software support for things like Photoshop and Word, as well as the > myriad other programs I've found useful at times, but nope, not yet. "Raj, it's moving too fast! Slow it down!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zl92aBQ5mw
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 10:01 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhi7pi.alh.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #2638 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> was all, like: > On 2015-03-29, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> How far back should backwards compatibility go? Should Apple still be >> supporting MacTCP, which was replaced by Open Transport in 1995? > They should make sure the API keeps working, yes. Reroute the calls > to the new code, but keep supporting the old stuff. That might get > them the proper attitude: to design it better so they don't have to > toss out old interfaces just to provide "spiffy" new ones no one really > cares about. All that does is carry forward the same old bugs for decades. No thanks. > The thing is simple. The most important thing is application software, > not the OS. People don't buy a computer to run an OS. They buy it for > applications it can run. And they want to be able to update this applications to get new features and better use and improved stability. >Once they've got their preferred set of applications, they stop >changing it. No they don't. >When their computer dies, they want to run the old software on the new >computer. Not really, they want to run new software and new versions of old software. >They don't give a shit about "spiffy", they care about "practical". Nope. You are projecting. >Apple, and Microsoft to a lesser degree, don't care about that. They >care about "spiffy" and about keeping up with the Jonses, which is >mostly each other. Which is why far more people use their software than use Linux. > I want to run drivers with the hardware they came with. Nope. And a good thing, too. Modern drivers are much better, much more secure, crash the system far less, and have support. > This is why Linux, or something else, will take over from both these > companies. Ahahahahaha. That is hilarious. No, really, hysterical. -- http://2blog.kreme.com Oh, he's just like any other man, only more so.
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| From | Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 20:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhjc8j.kg7.howard@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #2645 |
On 2015-03-30, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Okay, so one time? In band camp? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> was > all, like: >>Once they've got their preferred set of applications, they stop >>changing it. > > No they don't. You've never worked in Utilities, Healthcare, or Telecomm, huh? I have. Telecomm is less conservative than the other two, but Utilities and Healthcare have to go through heck to validate software. It makes them VERY hesitant to change things. > Not really, they want to run new software and new versions of old > software. Not necessarily. They want the old functions with the old interface, no learning curve and training expense that way. If it's done with a new version of the software, they don't care. They just don't want any interruptions in what they do. No new docs, no new expensive training, no slowness while people come up to speed. >>They don't give a shit about "spiffy", they care about "practical". > > Nope. You are projecting. I'm speaking from a couple decades of experience.
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| From | Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 14:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mfbo3l$mv1$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2638 |
For your reference, records indicate that Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > The most important thing is application software, > not the OS. > This is why Linux, or something else, will take over from both these > companies. Your realities are inconsistent. -- "Also . . . I can kill you with my brain." River Tam, Trash, Firefly
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 15:27 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <cnt8alFbj9lU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #2638 |
On 2015-03-30, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > On 2015-03-29, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: >> How far back should backwards compatibility go? Should Apple still be >> supporting MacTCP, which was replaced by Open Transport in 1995? > > They should make sure the API keeps working, yes. Reroute the calls > to the new code, but keep supporting the old stuff. That might get > them the proper attitude: to design it better so they don't have to > toss out old interfaces just to provide "spiffy" new ones no one really > cares about. The suggestion that nobody cares about the problems inherent in Open Transport, or that what has replaced it is so much better is false. > The thing is simple. The most important thing is application software, > not the OS. People don't buy a computer to run an OS. They buy it for > applications it can run. Once they've got their preferred set of > applications, they stop changing it. Perhaps some people do that, but most of the people *I* know buy a computer to get shit done, and if better more efficient tools and operating system technologies come along that improve things for them, they are happy to use them. Such is the case with Open Transport. > When their computer dies, they > want to run the old software on the new computer. They don't give a > shit about "spiffy", they care about "practical". Thankfully, you don't speak for th entire human race. I doubt you even speak for most people. > Apple, and Microsoft to a lesser degree, don't care about that. They > care about "spiffy" and about keeping up with the Jonses, which is > mostly each other. Apple cares about delivering the best customer experience possible for the majority of Apple customers. They deliver that in spades. > I would like to run Word 5.0a, from 1991. With DEC, that wouldn't be TOO > much of a problem. With Apple and Microsoft, it's impossible. I want > to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader. Can't do it. > I want to run drivers with the hardware they came with. Nope. > > This is why Linux, or something else, will take over from both these > companies. Can't happen too soon, IMHO. Dream on! Don't hold your breath. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 21:43 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <dfmanno-19A0D7.21433330032015@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #2638 |
In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > The thing is simple. The most important thing is application software, > not the OS. People don't buy a computer to run an OS. They buy it for > applications it can run. Once they've got their preferred set of > applications, they stop changing it. When their computer dies, they > want to run the old software on the new computer. They don't give a > shit about "spiffy", they care about "practical". Apple, and Microsoft > to a lesser degree, don't care about that. They care about "spiffy" and > about keeping up with the Jonses, which is mostly each other. No, they care about sales. If your old stuff always works, they can't sell you anything new. Everyone has to decide whether the tradeoff -- new features and functions vs. older software no longer working -- is worth it. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com GOP delenda est!
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| From | "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 21:45 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <dfmanno-825C9F.21453730032015@news.albasani.net> |
| In reply to | #2638 |
In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > I want to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader. > Can't do it. In retrospect, maybe you (and I) were overly optimistic relying on software maintained by one and only one person. -- D.F. Manno | dfmanno@mail.com GOP delenda est!
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| From | bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 19:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <billvan-64098B.19465530032015@shawnews.vc.shawcable.net> |
| In reply to | #2673 |
In article <dfmanno-825C9F.21453730032015@news.albasani.net>, "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote: > In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > > > I want to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader. > > Can't do it. > > In retrospect, maybe you (and I) were overly optimistic relying on > software maintained by one and only one person. Yeah, but what choices did we have? This situation reflects the nature of Usenet: nobody can make a consistent buck out of it. Googoo tried by buying the archives, but could never get a profitable handle on it. (Not such a bad thing, perhaps. Nobody's doing big-time data mining on Usenet, as far as I know, and that means a measure of privacy that you don't get on FB or Twitter, say.) So the best we got was news readers designed and maintained by individuals who eventually decided to concentrate on their day jobs, or got too cantankerous to deal with. Unfortunate, but what are the alternatives? If you followed the Doc O'Leary discussions, you know there seems to be no easy market for a new commercial news reader. -- bill
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| From | Doc O'Leary <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-31 14:55 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mfecgm$t96$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #2675 |
For your reference, records indicate that bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> wrote: > In article <dfmanno-825C9F.21453730032015@news.albasani.net>, > "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote: > > > In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, > > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > > > > > I want to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader. > > > Can't do it. > > > > In retrospect, maybe you (and I) were overly optimistic relying on > > software maintained by one and only one person. > > Yeah, but what choices did we have? This is the paradox of free software. It just isn’t a sustainable business model. People, even those who can often generously donate their time, still need to eat. When push comes to shove, if the market doesn’t support the effort it *will* go away. Doesn’t matter if it’s one person or 100 (and it should be trivial to see that needing more people means needing more money). > Nobody's doing big-time data mining on > Usenet, as far as I know, and that means a measure of privacy that you > don't get on FB or Twitter, say.) I’d argue that it’s actually worse in many ways, because Usenet data is fully public and archived by many people for many years. But because it’s an open platform, nobody can control it, so the flip side is that there is even less value in digging through it all. We’re hiding in plain sight. :-) > So the best we got was news readers designed and maintained by > individuals who eventually decided to concentrate on their day jobs, or > got too cantankerous to deal with. Unfortunate, but what are the > alternatives? If you followed the Doc O'Leary discussions, you know > there seems to be no easy market for a new commercial news reader. I’d say there’s no market for *any* newsreader. Even the free ones are not being seriously developed. They still work because their (often outdated) features are minimal and easy to maintain. I mean, just look back at all the fuss I caused by using UTF-8 as my default encoding *as the current standard specifies*. -- "Also . . . I can kill you with my brain." River Tam, Trash, Firefly
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| From | Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-04-01 07:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhn7k1.l7n.howard@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #2673 |
On 2015-03-31, D.F. Manno <dfmanno@mail.com> wrote: > In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, > Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote: > >> I want to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader. >> Can't do it. > > In retrospect, maybe you (and I) were overly optimistic relying on > software maintained by one and only one person. Lots of software is like that. See VueScan. As far as I know, he's working on that by himself. Wonderful stuff!!
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-29 16:43 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhgavb.1i53.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #2607 |
Okay, so one time? In band camp? Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> was all, like: > On 2015-03-28 22:16:03 +0000, Jolly Roger said: >> Again, you must be referring to some *other* OS. > Not a bit. Apple isn't big on backwards compatability. Scanner > software for my CanoScan 9950F failed. Canon, like HP, has a long history of refusing to update drivers in an effort to driv new sales. It worked with my mother, she replaced her Canon scanner with a Brother all in one. > MT-NW failed. MTNW was written for System 7. -- http://2blog.kreme.com I WILL NOT YELL "FIRE" IN A CROWDED CLASSROOM Bart chalkboard Ep. 7G01
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| From | Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-29 19:36 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhgl1n.j6r.hshubs@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #2620 |
On 2015-03-29, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: > Canon, like HP, has a long history of refusing to update drivers in an > effort to driv new sales. It worked with my mother, she replaced her > Canon scanner with a Brother all in one. If Apple cared about backward compatability, Canon's method wouldn't have worked. As it is, I simply started using the scanner with VueScan and got annoyed at Canon. > MTNW was written for System 7. Which shows that Apple *knows* about backward compatability, but doesn't care. They kept thing going for a while, but ultimately dumped it. I wish the MTNW code was available. We'd update it and get it working again. <sigh>
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| From | Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-29 23:36 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhhklu.erj.timmcn@sugaree-2.local> |
| In reply to | #2628 |
On 29 Mar 2015 19:36:23 GMT, Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> wrote: > On 2015-03-29, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote: >> Canon, like HP, has a long history of refusing to update drivers in >> an effort to driv new sales. It worked with my mother, she replaced >> her Canon scanner with a Brother all in one. > > If Apple cared about backward compatability, Canon's method wouldn't > have worked. As it is, I simply started using the scanner with > VueScan and got annoyed at Canon. That doesn't even make sense, Howard. Apple progresses, must progress, like the rest of the tech sector. I've got a nearly 25 year old SCSI 40 MB hard drive, back when 40 MB was an appreciable amount of space- there is no reason to expect Apple to maintain backwards compatibility to hardware that frankly might not even turn on if I plugged it in. Support for obsolete technology eventually has to be jettisoned, and at the speed the tech sector advances at times "obsolete" might be three weeks ago. How long do you expect them to maintain "backwards compatibility?" (The answer, of course, is as long as I want to use that old tech; I don't give a crap whether they support it once I no longer want to use it). >> MTNW was written for System 7. > > Which shows that Apple *knows* about backward compatability, but > doesn't care. They kept thing going for a while, but ultimately > dumped it. I wish the MTNW code was available. We'd update it and > get it working again. <sigh> You seem to be confusing Apple and third party developers. It was not up to Apple to keep MT-NW going, it was up to Simon. He opted not to, probably for very good reasons (e.g., the code probably needs a complete rewrite to bring it into this century. You'd probably be better starting from scratch).
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| From | Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-03-30 07:39 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnmhhvcs.k27.howard@foxtrot.local> |
| In reply to | #2640 |
On 2015-03-30, Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> wrote: > That doesn't even make sense, Howard. Apple progresses, must progress, > like the rest of the tech sector. I've got a nearly 25 year old SCSI 40 > MB hard drive, back when 40 MB was an appreciable amount of space- there > is no reason to expect Apple to maintain backwards compatibility to > hardware that frankly might not even turn on if I plugged it in. > Support for obsolete technology eventually has to be jettisoned, and at > the speed the tech sector advances at times "obsolete" might be three > weeks ago. How long do you expect them to maintain "backwards > compatibility?" (The answer, of course, is as long as I want to use > that old tech; I don't give a crap whether they support it once I no > longer want to use it). Exactly, and they should. DEC did. I suspect IBM does. Apple has the same amount of control as they did/do over its hardware. Microsoft can't claim that, but they maintain compatability longer, as I understand it. Not as long as DEC, granted, but longer than Apple. > You seem to be confusing Apple and third party developers. It was not > up to Apple to keep MT-NW going, it was up to Simon. He opted not to, > probably for very good reasons (e.g., the code probably needs a complete > rewrite to bring it into this century. You'd probably be better > starting from scratch). The only reason MT-NW doesn't work is because Apple broke it by changing the environment in such a way as to break backward compatability with MT-NW and other such programs. It's EXACTLY Apple's fault, and no others'.
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