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Groups > comp.sys.mac.comm > #1723 > unrolled thread

Newsreaders

Started byMichelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org>
First post2013-10-27 09:41 -0700
Last post2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
Articles 20 on this page of 289 — 45 participants

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Contents

  Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-27 09:41 -0700
    Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 11:56 -0500
      Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-16 15:20 +0000
    Re: Newsreaders Davoud <star@sky.net> - 2013-10-27 13:01 -0400
      Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 12:36 -0500
        Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 14:41 -0500
          Re: Newsreaders snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk (Sn!pe) - 2013-10-27 19:58 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 15:05 -0500
              Re: Newsreaders snipe@spambin.fsnet.co.uk (Sn!pe) - 2013-10-27 20:42 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders dorayme <dorayme@optusnet.com.au> - 2013-10-28 10:23 +1100
          Thoth (not) breaking long URL (was: Newsreaders) "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-28 09:37 +0100
    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-10-27 19:57 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2013-10-27 19:16 -0700
        Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:21 -0500
    Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-28 10:58 +1300
    Re: Newsreaders M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2013-10-27 19:24 -0400
      Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-27 23:42 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders M-M <nospam.m-m@ny.more> - 2013-10-27 20:09 -0400
          Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 19:16 -0500
          Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-28 00:16 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:11 -0500
            Re: Newsreaders Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2013-10-28 13:54 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 09:01 -0500
                Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 09:09 +1300
                  Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 20:44 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 01:26 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 21:04 -0500
            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 02:11 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Lloyd  E Parsons <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-27 22:01 -0500
                Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 03:40 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-28 17:26 +1300
                    Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:17 -0500
                  Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:16 -0500
                    Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-28 14:20 +0100
                    Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-28 13:39 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-28 08:43 -0500
        Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-11-15 15:29 +0100
          Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-11-15 09:26 -0600
    Re: Newsreaders Ted Lee <tmplee@mr.net> - 2013-10-27 20:30 -0500
      Re: Newsreaders AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-10-28 11:02 -0400
    Re: Newsreaders Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-10-28 00:48 -0400
      Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 15:16 +0000
    Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-28 15:16 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-10-28 15:21 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <email@michelle@michelle.org> - 2013-10-28 08:31 -0700
        Re: Newsreaders Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2013-10-28 08:57 -0700
          Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-29 05:25 +1300
          Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 09:22 +1300
          Re: Newsreaders Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-10-28 21:22 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 13:29 +1300
              Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-29 01:43 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 05:04 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 18:25 +1300
                    Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-29 01:33 -0400
                    Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 05:37 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-29 19:25 +1300
                        Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 07:25 +0000
                          Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-10-29 04:07 -0400
                            Re: Newsreaders Martin Τrautmann <t-usenet@gmx.net> - 2013-10-29 09:00 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 10:24 +1300
                                Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
                          Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 09:26 +1300
                    Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-29 21:35 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2013-10-29 16:28 -0700
                        Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 13:33 +1300
                          Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2013-10-29 23:14 -0700
                            Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 21:43 +1300
                          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 12:39 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-31 09:31 +1300
                            Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-31 08:52 +1300
                        Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 19:36 +1300
                          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 12:42 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-30 14:39 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2013-10-29 17:01 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-30 09:29 +1300
          Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2013-10-30 16:44 -0400
            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2013-10-30 23:22 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2013-10-31 13:15 +1300
    Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2013-10-29 10:10 +0100
      Re: Newsreaders Lloyd <lloydp21@live.com> - 2013-10-29 08:36 -0500
        Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-10-30 10:25 +1300
      Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2013-11-05 20:31 +0100
    Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-08 00:49 +0200
      Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-07 18:42 -0600
        Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-08 02:05 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders me@home.spamsucks.ca (Király) - 2014-02-08 16:12 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 15:21 -0600
            Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-02-08 20:01 -0500
              Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-02-08 18:09 -0700
                Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 21:48 -0600
              Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 20:51 -0600
              Re: Newsreaders Walter Bushell <proto@panix.com> - 2014-02-28 12:19 -0500
            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-09 01:40 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-08 21:50 -0600
        Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-09 19:26 +0200
          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-09 17:31 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-09 23:22 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-09 23:44 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-02-10 02:01 +0100
            Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-02-10 10:00 -0500
              Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-11 13:27 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-02-11 09:51 -0500
                  Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-11 18:55 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-11 23:28 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2014-02-09 19:40 -0600
            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-10 04:34 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-02-08 02:04 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-02-08 03:33 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders android <here@there.was> - 2014-02-09 09:50 +0100
        Re: Newsreaders Matti Haveri <nospam@here.invalid> - 2014-02-09 16:19 +0200
      Re: Newsreaders android <here@there.was> - 2014-02-09 09:53 +0100
    Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-27 04:07 -0700
      Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-03-27 14:45 +0100
      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-27 14:18 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:50 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
              Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 00:30 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-27 14:27 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-27 13:10 -0700
          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-27 20:14 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-28 01:26 -0700
              Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 14:30 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 01:41 -0700
                  Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:22 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:43 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 06:29 -0400
              Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-28 14:47 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 20:36 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:27 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 19:22 -0400
                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:47 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:26 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 14:51 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 14:00 -0400
                  Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 20:30 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 17:08 -0400
                      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 21:13 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 19:10 -0400
                          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:46 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 01:45 -0700
                          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:23 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-28 17:09 -0400
                  Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 21:18 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:29 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 20:15 -0400
                  Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 00:30 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-28 21:28 -0400
                      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:21 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:15 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-29 16:37 -0400
                      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 20:44 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-29 17:58 -0400
                          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 00:07 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:26 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:17 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:25 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:53 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:46 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 17:32 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-27 22:33 +0000
      Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 01:33 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-03-27 22:16 -0500
          Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 05:10 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-27 21:03 -0700
          Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-03-28 05:11 +0000
          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 06:12 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-28 10:32 -0700
              Re: Newsreaders DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-03-28 12:53 -0700
                Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-28 21:18 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 22:16 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:27 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:56 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:49 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 17:33 +0000
                          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 18:25 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-29 02:00 -0700
                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 13:30 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:32 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 20:43 +0000
                          Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 03:16 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:22 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-29 14:40 -0700
                          Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 03:23 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 00:02 -0400
                            Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-29 21:38 -0700
                              Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 07:43 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-30 08:30 -0700
                                  Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 11:36 -0400
                                  Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:18 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 16:34 -0400
                                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:20 +0000
                                        Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-01 20:46 +1300
                                          Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-01 09:37 -0700
                                        Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-01 04:22 -0400
                                    Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 21:22 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-31 13:53 +1300
                                      Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-31 01:02 +0000
                                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:23 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:49 -0400
                                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:24 +0000
                                        Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-04-01 09:39 -0700
                                          Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-04-20 20:46 +0200
                                            Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-20 14:52 -0400
                                            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-20 18:53 +0000
                                              Re: Newsreaders dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-21 10:45 +1200
                                                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-21 02:08 +0000
                                                  Re: Newsreaders dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-21 15:07 +1200
                                                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-21 04:22 +0000
                                                  Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-21 11:58 -0500
                                                    Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 13:05 -0400
                                                      Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-21 23:49 +0000
                                                        Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-21 20:53 -0400
                                                          Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-22 03:30 +0000
                                                      Re: Newsreaders spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-04-22 12:03 +0200
                                                      Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-22 17:32 -0500
                                                        Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-23 18:08 +1200
                                            Re: Newsreaders Gordon Sande <Gordon.Sande@gmail.com> - 2015-04-20 17:05 -0300
                                            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-21 05:41 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:13 -0500
                                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:32 +0000
                                  Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:20 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:38 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:08 -0500
                            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 10:01 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:24 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-30 14:54 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:27 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:43 -0400
                            Re: Newsreaders "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2015-03-30 21:45 -0400
                              Re: Newsreaders bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2015-03-30 19:46 -0700
                                Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-31 14:55 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:30 +0000
                    Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 16:43 +0000
                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> - 2015-03-29 19:36 +0000
                        Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-29 23:36 -0500
                          Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 07:39 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:35 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:14 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:35 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 22:59 -0500
                                  Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:18 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-01 04:22 -0400
                                      Re: Newsreaders TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-04-01 08:11 -0500
                                      Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 23:59 +0000
                                        Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-02 02:14 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-04-01 09:05 -0500
                                      Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-01 16:51 +0000
                                        Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-01 17:51 +0000
                                          Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-02 00:03 +0000
                                    Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-04-01 17:06 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 22:56 -0500
                          Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-30 15:17 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-30 11:22 -0400
                            Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:38 +0000
                            Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-03-30 20:27 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 20:39 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:26 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-30 21:17 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Tim McNamara <timmcn@bitstream.net> - 2015-03-30 23:04 -0500
                                Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:27 +0000
                              Re: Newsreaders Doc O'Leary  <droleary@2usenet2014.subsume.com> - 2015-03-31 14:28 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-03-31 12:41 -0400
                                Re: Newsreaders Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> - 2015-04-01 07:28 +0000
                                Re: Newsreaders tmo1138 <tmo1138@tmo1138.com> - 2015-04-01 23:47 +0000
                          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-30 15:33 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders FPP <fredp151@gmail.com> - 2015-03-28 01:49 -0400
      Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
    Re: Newsreaders DaveC <not@home.cow> - 2015-03-28 09:03 -0700
      Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 11:44 +1300
    Re: Newsreaders gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2015-03-28 09:17 -0700
      Re: Newsreaders sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-03-28 20:52 +0000
        Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-28 16:00 -0700
          Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-28 23:06 +0000
            Re: Newsreaders sctvguy1 <sctvguy1@invalid.net> - 2015-03-29 03:00 +0000
              Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 23:51 +1300
                Re: Newsreaders Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-29 12:48 +0000
                Re: Newsreaders Buster Friendly <lah@de.da.ru.ru> - 2015-03-29 09:01 -0400
                  Re: Newsreaders "J.P. Kuypers" <Jean-Pierre.Kuypers@adresse.invalid> - 2015-03-29 15:33 +0200
                    Re: Newsreaders Buster Friendly <lah@de.da.ru.ru> - 2015-03-29 09:40 -0400
                  Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 17:04 +0000
                  Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-30 13:37 +1300
          Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300
            Re: Newsreaders Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-29 01:28 +0000
    Re: Newsreaders Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-28 15:59 -0700
      Re: Newsreaders jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-29 13:03 +1300

Page 10 of 15 — ← Prev page 1 … 8 9 [10] 11 12 … 15  Next page →


#2617

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-29 13:30 +0000
Message-ID<cnqd3hFj2crU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2607
On 2015-03-29, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
> On 2015-03-28 22:16:03 +0000, Jolly Roger said:
>
>> Again, you must be referring to some *other* OS.
>
> Not a bit.  Apple isn't big on backwards compatability.  Scanner 
> software for my CanoScan 9950F failed.

That's an exception to the rule, I suspect. Apple gets Canon drivers
from Canon. It looks like Canon stopped providing drivers for the
CanoScan 9950F after 2011. That's not Apple's fault. It looks like
Canon's last release was for OS X 10.6 in 2011:

9950F Scanner Driver Ver. 10.3.4.1X (Mac OS X 10.2/10.3/10.4/10.5/10.6)
12/14/11

<http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/scanners/canoscan_series/canoscan_9950f#DriversAndSoftware>

> MT-NW failed.

To be fair, Apple did not write MT-NewsWatcher, and has no ability to
keep it up-to-date. In fact, the author of MT-NW did not keep it up to
date either, which is why it fails to launch in the latest versions of
OS X.  Hardly Apple's fault. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2627

FromHoward S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local>
Date2015-03-29 19:32 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhgkpv.j6r.hshubs@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2617
On 2015-03-29, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> To be fair, Apple did not write MT-NewsWatcher, and has no ability to
> keep it up-to-date. In fact, the author of MT-NW did not keep it up to
> date either, which is why it fails to launch in the latest versions of
> OS X.  Hardly Apple's fault. 

Okay, you don't understand backwards-compatability either.  What it means
is to not change the environment in a way that breaks things.  Period.
DO NOT CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT so that code keeps working.  DEC did it for
decades.  Code written in the early '80s still worked on VAX/VMS until
that ended.  Apple has no clue, or doesn't care.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2631

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-29 20:43 +0000
Message-ID<cnr6feFqf1mU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2627
On 2015-03-29, Howard S Shubs <hshubs@foxtrot.local> wrote:
> On 2015-03-29, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> To be fair, Apple did not write MT-NewsWatcher, and has no ability to
>> keep it up-to-date. In fact, the author of MT-NW did not keep it up to
>> date either, which is why it fails to launch in the latest versions of
>> OS X.  Hardly Apple's fault. 
>
> Okay, you don't understand backwards-compatability either.

Sure I do. I just don't place as much value on it as others.

> What it means is to not change the environment in a way that breaks
> things.  Period.  DO NOT CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT so that code keeps
> working.  DEC did it for decades.  Code written in the early '80s
> still worked on VAX/VMS until that ended.  Apple has no clue, or
> doesn't care.

Apple definitely has a clue, but values new functionality that enables
better user experiences *more* than just keeping old crap working
indefinitely. It has always been that way with Apple. I suggest if
someone dislikes that about Apple, they should probably avoid Apple
products altogether.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2637

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-03-30 03:16 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhhfvt.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2631
On 2015-03-29, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> Sure I do. I just don't place as much value on it as others.

My apologies.


> Apple definitely has a clue, but values new functionality that enables
> better user experiences *more* than just keeping old crap working
> indefinitely. It has always been that way with Apple. I suggest if
> someone dislikes that about Apple, they should probably avoid Apple
> products altogether.

There's a reason I'm trying to move to Linux as my desktop OS.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2650

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-03-30 15:22 +0000
Message-ID<cnt82iFbj9lU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#2637
On 2015-03-30, Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
> On 2015-03-29, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>> Sure I do. I just don't place as much value on it as others.
>
> My apologies.
>
>> Apple definitely has a clue, but values new functionality that enables
>> better user experiences *more* than just keeping old crap working
>> indefinitely. It has always been that way with Apple. I suggest if
>> someone dislikes that about Apple, they should probably avoid Apple
>> products altogether.
>
> There's a reason I'm trying to move to Linux as my desktop OS.

If you're willing to do without all the niceties of OS X, go for it.
I've been there and done that, and I'll keep OS X because I consider it
to be superior.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2633

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-29 14:40 -0700
Message-ID<290320151440240692%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#2627
In article <slrnmhgkpv.j6r.hshubs@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<hshubs@foxtrot.local> wrote:

> On 2015-03-29, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > To be fair, Apple did not write MT-NewsWatcher, and has no ability to
> > keep it up-to-date. In fact, the author of MT-NW did not keep it up to
> > date either, which is why it fails to launch in the latest versions of
> > OS X.  Hardly Apple's fault. 
> 
> Okay, you don't understand backwards-compatability either.  What it means
> is to not change the environment in a way that breaks things.  Period.
> DO NOT CHANGE THE ENVIRONMENT so that code keeps working.  DEC did it for
> decades.  Code written in the early '80s still worked on VAX/VMS until
> that ended.  Apple has no clue, or doesn't care.

Apple announced well in advance (with Mac OS X 10.4, April 2005), that
Open Transport was being deprecated, and would eventually be removed
from the system.  It was removed in Mac OS X 10.9 in October 2013. 
That is an eight and a half year period in which developers could
update their software for the new APIs.

How far back should backwards compatibility go?  Should Apple still be
supporting MacTCP, which was replaced by Open Transport in 1995?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2638

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-03-30 03:23 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2633
On 2015-03-29, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> How far back should backwards compatibility go?  Should Apple still be
> supporting MacTCP, which was replaced by Open Transport in 1995?

They should make sure the API keeps working, yes.  Reroute the calls 
to the new code, but keep supporting the old stuff.  That might get 
them the proper attitude: to design it better so they don't have to 
toss out old interfaces just to provide "spiffy" new ones no one really 
cares about.

The thing is simple.  The most important thing is application software,
not the OS.  People don't buy a computer to run an OS.  They buy it for
applications it can run.  Once they've got their preferred set of
applications, they stop changing it.  When their computer dies, they 
want to run the old software on the new computer.  They don't give a
shit about "spiffy", they care about "practical".  Apple, and Microsoft
to a lesser degree, don't care about that.  They care about "spiffy" and
about keeping up with the Jonses, which is mostly each other.

I would like to run Word 5.0a, from 1991.  With DEC, that wouldn't be TOO
much of a problem.  With Apple and Microsoft, it's impossible.  I want
to run MT-NW, which in my view, was the perfect newsreader.  Can't do it.
I want to run drivers with the hardware they came with.  Nope.

This is why Linux, or something else, will take over from both these
companies.  Can't happen too soon, IMHO.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2639

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-03-30 00:02 -0400
Message-ID<300320150002344985%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#2638
In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> This is why Linux, or something else, will take over from both these
> companies.  Can't happen too soon, IMHO.\

whatever you're smoking, you've had way too much.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2641

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-29 21:38 -0700
Message-ID<290320152138124816%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#2638
In article <slrnmhhgdu.jmm.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> On 2015-03-29, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> > How far back should backwards compatibility go?  Should Apple still be
> > supporting MacTCP, which was replaced by Open Transport in 1995?
> 
> They should make sure the API keeps working, yes.  Reroute the calls 
> to the new code, but keep supporting the old stuff.  That might get 
> them the proper attitude: to design it better so they don't have to 
> toss out old interfaces just to provide "spiffy" new ones no one really 
> cares about.

The more they do that, the more complex the code becomes, and the more
difficult it is to maintain it.

By your argument, the current OS should be able to run the original
MacWrite from 1984.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2644

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-03-30 07:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhhvlg.k27.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2641
On 2015-03-30, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> The more they do that, the more complex the code becomes, and the more
> difficult it is to maintain it.

Not my problem.  Are you saying they CAN'T do it or that they SHOULDN'T
do it?  Why defend them?  They chose this situation.


> By your argument, the current OS should be able to run the original
> MacWrite from 1984.

Ideally, yes.  As I said, I'd like to use Word 5.0a.  Not so much
MacWrite/MacPaint, but SuperPaint?  Hell yes!!  Microphone?  Maybe. :-> 
After Dark?  PageMaker? etc.

They chose to change the environment in such a way to break these
products.  They could have rearranged things to make their jobs easier
AND maintained the environment, but they didn't.  So yes, I'm a bit
upset with them.  I wish I knew of a better OS with commercial software
support for things like Photoshop and Word, as well as the myriad other
programs I've found useful at times, but nope, not yet.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2652

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-03-30 08:30 -0700
Message-ID<300320150830152325%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#2644
In article <slrnmhhvlg.k27.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> > The more they do that, the more complex the code becomes, and the more
> > difficult it is to maintain it.
> 
> Not my problem.  Are you saying they CAN'T do it or that they SHOULDN'T
> do it?  Why defend them?  They chose this situation.

I'm saying that they shouldn't do it.  It can make the OS less stable,
and ties up too many resources.

If Simon Fraser had not abandoned MTNW, this would not be an issue at
all.  The same goes for the developers of the other abandon-ware you
mentioned.

> They chose to change the environment in such a way to break these
> products.

No, they chose to replace inefficient technology with better ones, and
gave more than ample notice that the older technology would eventually
go way.

> They could have rearranged things to make their jobs easier
> AND maintained the environment,

No, they couldn't have; that's the reason they didn't.

And Apple does try to keep support for older technologies; look at the
transition from 680x0 to PPC, and from PPC to Intel.  For that matter,
look at the transition from Mac OS to Mac OS X.

Thing is that they can't support older stuff forever.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2656

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-03-30 11:36 -0400
Message-ID<300320151136061659%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#2652
In article <300320150830152325%michelle@michelle.org>, Michelle Steiner
<michelle@michelle.org> wrote:

> And Apple does try to keep support for older technologies; look at the
> transition from 680x0 to PPC, and from PPC to Intel.  For that matter,
> look at the transition from Mac OS to Mac OS X.

no shit.

most apps from 1984 that were designed for a mac with 512x342 b/w
display ran flawlessly on a powermac in 2004 running an entirely
different operating system and with multiple colour displays

> Thing is that they can't support older stuff forever.

yep

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2660

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-03-30 20:18 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhjbth.kg7.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2652
On 2015-03-30, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> I'm saying that they shouldn't do it.  It can make the OS less stable,
> and ties up too many resources.

Not if they're good at their jobs, it doesn't.  Make it less stable,
that is.  VMS never had that issue.  Or maybe I'm mistaken.  JF?


> If Simon Fraser had not abandoned MTNW, this would not be an issue at
> all.  The same goes for the developers of the other abandon-ware you
> mentioned.

<shakes head>  You're defending Apple for some reason.  They COULD have
maintained compatability all the way back to System 1 if they wanted to.
Brickles could still work.  But nope.


> No, they chose to replace inefficient technology with better ones, and
> gave more than ample notice that the older technology would eventually
> go way.

Fine, replace the old tech, but do not break the old APIs.  That's
almost always very do-able.  But Apple doesn't give a shit, really. 
They say they're all about the user, until it requires some extra effort
or is less interesting to do.


> No, they couldn't have; that's the reason they didn't.

You have facts to back that up, Michelle?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2664

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-03-30 16:34 -0400
Message-ID<300320151634114747%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#2660
In article <slrnmhjbth.kg7.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> > If Simon Fraser had not abandoned MTNW, this would not be an issue at
> > all.  The same goes for the developers of the other abandon-ware you
> > mentioned.
> 
> <shakes head>  You're defending Apple for some reason.  They COULD have
> maintained compatability all the way back to System 1 if they wanted to.
> Brickles could still work.  But nope.

they could have, but what the hell for?

it's a complete waste of time. the number of users who want to run
brickles or other apps from 30 years ago is too small to bother with. 

and by the way, apple did support classic through 10.4, which means
brickles could run on a mac in 2005, over 20 *years* later.

> > No, they chose to replace inefficient technology with better ones, and
> > gave more than ample notice that the older technology would eventually
> > go way.
> 
> Fine, replace the old tech, but do not break the old APIs.  That's
> almost always very do-able.  But Apple doesn't give a shit, really. 
> They say they're all about the user, until it requires some extra effort
> or is less interesting to do.
> 
> > No, they couldn't have; that's the reason they didn't.
> 
> You have facts to back that up, Michelle?

anyone who has done any software development would realize it's correct.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2685

FromHoward S Shubs <howard@shubs.net>
Date2015-04-01 07:20 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhn723.l7n.howard@foxtrot.local>
In reply to#2664
On 2015-03-30, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> anyone who has done any software development would realize it's correct.

Then how did DEC manage it?  How has IBM managed IBM 360 compatibility
for 40+ years?  Through serious effort, yes.  That's the difference
between a serious computer maker and a more surface-oriented one like
Apple.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2692

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-04-01 20:46 +1300
Message-ID<1m27vy2.14xw0zk6s77gvN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#2685
Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> On 2015-03-30, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> > anyone who has done any software development would realize it's correct.
> 
> Then how did DEC manage it?  How has IBM managed IBM 360 compatibility
> for 40+ years?  Through serious effort, yes.  That's the difference
> between a serious computer maker and a more surface-oriented one like
> Apple.

Oh give me a break...

I'm reminded of Microsoft who used to do stuff like modify MS-DOS just
so Sim City would run properly. It wasn't MS-DOS that was buggy, but Sim
City. Nonetheless MS added code to detect Sim City running and behave
differently.

Or video card makers who still patch their drivers so poorly written
games run better. Again - not because there was a problem with the
driver. But because the game devs were incompetent and gamers blamed the
video card for poor performance, instead.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#2697

FromMichelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date2015-04-01 09:37 -0700
Message-ID<010420150937466415%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to#2692
In article <1m27vy2.14xw0zk6s77gvN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>, Jamie
Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> I'm reminded of Microsoft who used to do stuff like modify MS-DOS just
> so Sim City would run properly. It wasn't MS-DOS that was buggy, but Sim
> City. Nonetheless MS added code to detect Sim City running and behave
> differently.

When I was working on System 6.0.4, the development engineers pulled an
unpublished and unsupported API that Apple wasn't using (and because it
was unpublished and unsupported, no one else was supposed to be using
it) in one of the beta versions.  We quickly learned that Excel or MS
Word (I forget which) did use it.  It was quickly restored in the next
build.

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#2694

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-04-01 04:22 -0400
Message-ID<010420150422459464%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#2685
In article <slrnmhn723.l7n.howard@foxtrot.local>, Howard S Shubs
<howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> > anyone who has done any software development would realize it's correct.
> 
> Then how did DEC manage it?  How has IBM managed IBM 360 compatibility
> for 40+ years?  Through serious effort, yes.  That's the difference
> between a serious computer maker and a more surface-oriented one like
> Apple.

where is dec now? oh right, they don't exist anymore. 

now tell me again why that's a good strategy.

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#2669

FromLewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>
Date2015-03-30 21:22 +0000
Message-ID<slrnmhjfmv.eqo.g.kreme@amelia.local>
In reply to#2660
In message <slrnmhjbth.kg7.howard@foxtrot.local> 
  Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:
> On 2015-03-30, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> I'm saying that they shouldn't do it.  It can make the OS less stable,
>> and ties up too many resources.

> Not if they're good at their jobs, it doesn't.

And how many consumer OSes have you written? None? Right, you're talking out
your ass.

>  Make it less stable,
> that is.  VMS never had that issue.  Or maybe I'm mistaken.  JF?


>> If Simon Fraser had not abandoned MTNW, this would not be an issue at
>> all.  The same goes for the developers of the other abandon-ware you
>> mentioned.

> <shakes head>  You're defending Apple for some reason.  They COULD have
> maintained compatability all the way back to System 1 if they wanted to.

Bullshit.


>> No, they chose to replace inefficient technology with better ones, and
>> gave more than ample notice that the older technology would eventually
>> go way.

> Fine, replace the old tech, but do not break the old APIs.

Yes, break the old APIs that are serriously deficient and INSECURE.

> That's almost always very do-able.  But Apple doesn't give a shit, really. 
> They say they're all about the user, until it requires some extra effort
> or is less interesting to do.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

>> No, they couldn't have; that's the reason they didn't.

> You have facts to back that up, Michelle?

You're the one making the claim, you have to prove the positive.

-- 

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#2670

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-03-31 13:53 +1300
Message-ID<1m25ihw.1x3qbcf1270cp7N%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#2660
Howard S Shubs <howard@shubs.net> wrote:

> <shakes head>  You're defending Apple for some reason.  They COULD have
> maintained compatability all the way back to System 1 if they wanted to.
> Brickles could still work.  But nope.

For fuck's sake - run vMac mini if you want Brickles.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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