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In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem

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  In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2015-02-08 18:52 -0500
    Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-09 00:19 +0000
    Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-08 19:32 -0500
      Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-09 02:45 +0000
        Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 09:08 -0500
    Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-02-09 13:50 +1300
      Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2015-02-08 22:00 -0500
        Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-02-09 16:23 +1300
          Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2015-02-09 08:04 -0500
            Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-09 13:01 -0500
          Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem nmassello@yahoo.com (Neill Massello) - 2015-02-09 10:51 -0700
            Re: In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-02-10 09:40 +1300

#27732 — In iTunes but not really an iTunes problem

I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the 
cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up 
one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would 
appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the 
names would match the tunes.

I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names 
are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.

I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and 
this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and 
I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.

Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?

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#27737

On 2015-02-08, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the 
> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up 
> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would 
> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the 
> names would match the tunes.
>
> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names 
> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
>
> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and 
> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and 
> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
>
> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?

When importing music from a CD, iTunes must look up track names on the
internet through the CDDB database, because CDs do not contain that
information. If the track names in CDDB are wrong, the tracks iTunes
uses for the tracks will also be wrong. You can correct the names of the
tracks *before* importing them. Insert the CD, then edit the track names
in iTunes before importing.

See: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#27739

On 2015.02.08 18:52 , Robert Peirce wrote:
> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the
> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up
> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would
> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the
> names would match the tunes.
>
> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
>
> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and
> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and
> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
>
> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?

I've seen it before.

Another issue I have is a song not included on the album but shown as a 
separate song altogether - not associated with the album from whence it 
came (I import CD's as a "whole").  Several instances like that.

I tried to "fix" these in iTunes or in the file structure (via Finder) 
which was fruitless in both cases.


-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#27745

On 2015-02-09, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> On 2015.02.08 18:52 , Robert Peirce wrote:
>> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the
>> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up
>> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would
>> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the
>> names would match the tunes.
>>
>> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
>> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
>>
>> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and
>> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and
>> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
>>
>> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?
>
> I've seen it before.
>
> Another issue I have is a song not included on the album but shown as a 
> separate song altogether - not associated with the album from whence it 
> came (I import CD's as a "whole").  Several instances like that.
>
> I tried to "fix" these in iTunes or in the file structure (via Finder) 
> which was fruitless in both cases.

It's definitely possible to fix incorrect ID3 tags in iTunes, and it's
also possible, as I mentioned earlier, to change the tags *before* you
import that CD into iTunes.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#27756

On 2015.02.08 21:45 , Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2015-02-09, Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2015.02.08 18:52 , Robert Peirce wrote:
>>> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the
>>> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up
>>> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would
>>> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the
>>> names would match the tunes.
>>>
>>> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
>>> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
>>>
>>> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and
>>> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and
>>> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
>>>
>>> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?
>>
>> I've seen it before.
>>
>> Another issue I have is a song not included on the album but shown as a
>> separate song altogether - not associated with the album from whence it
>> came (I import CD's as a "whole").  Several instances like that.
>>
>> I tried to "fix" these in iTunes or in the file structure (via Finder)
>> which was fruitless in both cases.
>
> It's definitely possible to fix incorrect ID3 tags in iTunes, and it's
> also possible, as I mentioned earlier, to change the tags *before* you
> import that CD into iTunes.

I get it.  OTOH when I imported those disks it was off of a pile, so I 
was slapping them in and iTunes was automatically loading.  eg: I wasn't 
"monitoring" the process.

I suppose I could "after the fact", delete those albums/songs get those 
particular CD's and do a re-do ... ennuyant, quoi.

-- 
"Your net worth to the world is usually
  determined by what remains after your
  bad habits are subtracted from your good ones."
                                   Benjamin Franklin

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#27740

Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the
> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up
> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would
> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the
> names would match the tunes.

The most likely explanation is that the online Gracenote database of CDs
(or whichever online database iTunes is using these days) has the
details wrong for that CD, so iTunes ended up with the wrong track
names. It might also be that there are two variants of the CD which have
the tracks in a different order, and Gracenote happens to have the track
names in the order of the other variant.

> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.

That's standard for iTunes. It doesn't care what the files are called.
All textual information about tracks comes from ID3 tags stored inside
the file. Edit the track name in iTunes, e.g. via Get Info or by
clicking on the track name.

> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and
> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and
> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
> 
> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?

Probably a one-off for that particular CD.

I may have encountered this once or twice in the process of importing
500+ CDs into iTunes over the years. If so, it was so long ago I can't
recall the specifics.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#27746

On 2/8/15, 19:50, David Empson wrote:
> Robert Peirce<bob@peirce-family.com>  wrote:
>
>> I discover I have a CD where the tracks play in the order shown on the
>> cover but when loaded into iTunes the names of the 5ty-9th track move up
>> one.  That is if the tracks actually played A, B, C, D, E, they would
>> appear in iTunes as B, C, D, E, A. I had to manually rename them so the
>> names would match the tunes.
>
> The most likely explanation is that the online Gracenote database of CDs
> (or whichever online database iTunes is using these days) has the
> details wrong for that CD, so iTunes ended up with the wrong track
> names. It might also be that there are two variants of the CD which have
> the tracks in a different order, and Gracenote happens to have the track
> names in the order of the other variant.
>
>> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
>> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
>
> That's standard for iTunes. It doesn't care what the files are called.
> All textual information about tracks comes from ID3 tags stored inside
> the file. Edit the track name in iTunes, e.g. via Get Info or by
> clicking on the track name.
>
>> I don't know how common this is.  I have hundreds of CDs in iTunes and
>> this is the first time I noticed it, but I haven't played everything and
>> I usually don't check what is playing against what iTunes says is playing.
>>
>> Has anybody seen this before or might it be a one off?
>
> Probably a one-off for that particular CD.
>
> I may have encountered this once or twice in the process of importing
> 500+ CDs into iTunes over the years. If so, it was so long ago I can't
> recall the specifics.
>


I think my experience differs from yours. I keep my music collection for 
export from iTunes to my iPod Classic, and I have a lot of classical 
music. The GraceNote-downloaded track titles often have misspellings in 
foreign languages, which I am qualified to correct for my own use. I 
find that corrected track names and other corrections are reflected not 
only in iTunes but on the track names and files in my iTunes Media 
Folder kept on the peripheral disk I designate for it.


This might make it impossible to access those tracks in the cloud, but I 
prefer to have the info I have specified to access on my iPod rather 
than take what the cloud would decide to give me. I also keep an 
optional alternative iTunes for travel with mostly videos. I have never 
noticed a problem with misordered tracks, but occasionally a track 
dropped in the course of upgrades has to be re-imported.


-- 
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||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
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#27747

AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 2/8/15, 19:50, David Empson wrote:
> > Robert Peirce<bob@peirce-family.com>  wrote:
> >

[...]

> >> I first tried renaming the files on HD but it turns out the track names
> >> are stored in the music file itself.  The HD names were ignored.
> >
> > That's standard for iTunes. It doesn't care what the files are called.
> > All textual information about tracks comes from ID3 tags stored inside
> > the file. Edit the track name in iTunes, e.g. via Get Info or by
> > clicking on the track name.

[...]

> I think my experience differs from yours. I keep my music collection for
> export from iTunes to my iPod Classic, and I have a lot of classical 
> music. The GraceNote-downloaded track titles often have misspellings in
> foreign languages, which I am qualified to correct for my own use. I 
> find that corrected track names and other corrections are reflected not
> only in iTunes but on the track names and files in my iTunes Media 
> Folder kept on the peripheral disk I designate for it.

If you tell iTunes to keep your media folder organised, then it renames
files to reflect changes in the track name, even if the file is not in
your iTunes Music folder.

The filename is an output of this process, not an input. Renaming the
file won't change how iTunes displays the track name, but renaming the
track in iTunes will cause the filename to change. (Renaming a file in
iTunes for Windows may result in iTunes not being able to find the file
any more, but on a Mac, iTunes uses aliases to locate the media files,
and aliases are able to cope with a file being renamed.)

If you configure iTunes to not keep your media folder organised, then
changing the track name inside iTunes leaves the filename alone, so the
filename may have nothing to do with the track name displayed by iTunes.

> This might make it impossible to access those tracks in the cloud, but I
> prefer to have the info I have specified to access on my iPod rather 
> than take what the cloud would decide to give me. I also keep an 
> optional alternative iTunes for travel with mostly videos. I have never
> noticed a problem with misordered tracks, but occasionally a track 
> dropped in the course of upgrades has to be re-imported.


-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#27755

On 2/8/15 10:23 PM, David Empson wrote:
> If you configure iTunes to not keep your media folder organised, then
> changing the track name inside iTunes leaves the filename alone, so the
> filename may have nothing to do with the track name displayed by iTunes.

That's the way I do it and correcting the names in iTunes did not change 
the names on the HD.  It did not occur to me, but I guess I could 
manually correct the names on the HD and that wouldn't affect iTunes at 
all.  It would just make both name lists consistent.

On some classical pieces (and medlays) the track names on HD can get 
insanely long.  I have shortened them with no observed ill affects.

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#27763

In article <mbab83$ej3$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> > If you configure iTunes to not keep your media folder organised, then
> > changing the track name inside iTunes leaves the filename alone, so the
> > filename may have nothing to do with the track name displayed by iTunes.
> 
> That's the way I do it and correcting the names in iTunes did not change 
> the names on the HD.  It did not occur to me, but I guess I could 
> manually correct the names on the HD and that wouldn't affect iTunes at 
> all.  It would just make both name lists consistent.
>
> On some classical pieces (and medlays) the track names on HD can get 
> insanely long.  I have shortened them with no observed ill affects.

the file names on the drive make no difference. they are ignored.

itunes uses the tag information, not the file name.

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#27762

David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> If you tell iTunes to keep your media folder organised, then it renames
> files to reflect changes in the track name, even if the file is not in
> your iTunes Music folder.

My experience has been that iTunes only changes file names for items in
its own iTunes Media folder. When I add a track to the library from an
outside folder, not copying it to ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music, the
file name remains unchanged after I edit the track name in iTunes.
(Obviously, I have iTunes set to keep the Media folder organized but not
to copy items to it automatically.) 

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#27767

Neill Massello <nmassello@yahoo.com> wrote:

> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> 
> > If you tell iTunes to keep your media folder organised, then it renames
> > files to reflect changes in the track name, even if the file is not in
> > your iTunes Music folder.
> 
> My experience has been that iTunes only changes file names for items in
> its own iTunes Media folder.

Sorry, my mistake. I tested it before I wrote that but didn't notice
that I had moved the track into my iTunes Music folder at some point (I
thought it was still in a separate location).

> When I add a track to the library from an outside folder, not copying it
> to ~/Music/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music, the file name remains unchanged
> after I edit the track name in iTunes. (Obviously, I have iTunes set to
> keep the Media folder organized but not to copy items to it
> automatically.)

Agreed, now that I've tested it with another track outside my iTunes
Music folder.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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