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Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #21410 > unrolled thread

What app formats a hard disk?

Started bybriang@panix.com (Brian Gordon)
First post2014-03-09 15:12 -0400
Last post2014-03-10 13:57 -0400
Articles 10 on this page of 30 — 13 participants

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  What app formats a hard disk? briang@panix.com (Brian Gordon) - 2014-03-09 15:12 -0400
    Re: What app formats a hard disk? philo  <philo@privacy.net> - 2014-03-09 14:17 -0500
    Re: What app formats a hard disk? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2014-03-09 19:26 +0000
      Re: What app formats a hard disk? ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2014-03-10 00:09 +0100
        Re: What app formats a hard disk? Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2014-03-09 23:27 +0000
        Re: What app formats a hard disk? David Ryeburn <david_ryeburn@telus.netz> - 2014-03-13 01:59 -0700
          Re: What app formats a hard disk? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-14 00:03 +1300
            Re: What app formats a hard disk? Erik Richard Sørensen <tulle@tulle.dk> - 2014-03-13 18:59 +0100
              Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-13 14:04 -0400
                Re: What app formats a hard disk? ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2014-03-13 20:03 +0100
                  Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-13 17:10 -0400
                    Re: What app formats a hard disk? Erik Richard Sørensen <tulle@tulle.dk> - 2014-03-14 00:18 +0100
                      Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-13 19:28 -0400
                      Re: What app formats a hard disk? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-14 01:50 +0000
                  Re: What app formats a hard disk? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-14 10:16 +1300
                    Re: What app formats a hard disk? Erik Richard Sørensen <tulle@tulle.dk> - 2014-03-14 00:14 +0100
                      Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-13 19:28 -0400
                      Re: What app formats a hard disk? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-14 13:19 +1300
                        Re: What app formats a hard disk? dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2014-03-15 09:13 +1300
                      Re: What app formats a hard disk? Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-03-14 02:41 +0000
          Re: What app formats a hard disk? ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> - 2014-03-13 18:22 +0100
            Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-13 13:56 -0400
    Re: What app formats a hard disk? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-09 15:51 -0400
      Re: What app formats a hard disk? briang@panix.com (Brian Gordon) - 2014-03-09 19:58 +0000
        Re: What app formats a hard disk? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-09 16:17 -0400
        Re: What app formats a hard disk? Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2014-03-09 23:10 +0000
          Re: What app formats a hard disk? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-03-09 19:30 -0500
          Re: What app formats a hard disk? Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-03-10 17:17 -0400
            Re: What app formats a hard disk? Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-10 22:22 +0000
      Re: What app formats a hard disk? "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-03-10 13:57 -0400

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#21520

FromErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
Date2014-03-13 18:22 +0100
Message-ID<lfspfp$2j4$1@solani.org>
In reply to#21518
David Ryeburn wrote:
> ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid> wrote:
>> An Intel based Mac needs GUID partition map to be able to boot
>
> Not true. I have two APM formatted Firewire drives which will boot Intel
> Macs as well as PPC Macs. What is true is that the Intel Mac system
> software will not INSTALL onto an APM formatted drive. If however you
> CLONE Intel Mac system software onto an APM formatted drive, the result
> will boot an Intel Mac. This is useful if you have both Intel and PPC
> Macs and an external drive with several partitions intended to be used
> to boot up various computers.
>
>> and a PowerPC Mac needs APM partition map...
>
> True. A PPC Mac can see the data on a GUID partition map drive and can
> write to it, but cannot boot from it.
>
> Caution: My observations are for Mac OS up through 10.6. I do not know
> if what I wrote is true for 10.7 and higher because I have not tried it.

Strange... I had a 'total nervous breakdown' (dead HD) on my 10.5.8 on 
my MacPro 1.1. 'Luckily' I had a clone (CCC) on an external 500gb 
Mercury Firewire HD - also meant for my G5 PowerPC running 10.5.8, so I 
tried /many/ times to boot the MacPro from this disk. No luck at all - 
no matter which method I used to try to boot it. the G5 booted fine...

The clone was made from my MacPro to have the two machines identically 
setup with apps, system, prefs etc.. Used the APM since I too was told 
that it would work on both, but it doesn't...

Cheers, Erik Richard

-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Erik Richard Sørensen, Member of ADC, <mac-daneRE@MOVEstofanet.dk>
NisusWriter - The Future In Multilingual Text Processing - www.nisus.com
Openoffice.org - The Modern Productivity Solution - www.openoffice.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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#21521

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-03-13 13:56 -0400
Message-ID<130320141356227163%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#21520
In article <lfspfp$2j4$1@solani.org>, ErikRS <mac-dane@is.invalid>
wrote:

> Strange... I had a 'total nervous breakdown' (dead HD) on my 10.5.8 on 
> my MacPro 1.1. 'Luckily' I had a clone (CCC) on an external 500gb 
> Mercury Firewire HD - also meant for my G5 PowerPC running 10.5.8, so I 
> tried /many/ times to boot the MacPro from this disk. No luck at all - 
> no matter which method I used to try to boot it. the G5 booted fine...

something else was the cause of its inability to boot. 

> The clone was made from my MacPro to have the two machines identically 
> setup with apps, system, prefs etc.. Used the APM since I too was told 
> that it would work on both, but it doesn't...

it absolutely does work on both.

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#21416

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-03-09 15:51 -0400
Message-ID<DaGdnXGXhcnOW4HOnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#21410
On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came formatted for
> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk, after
> which all went well.
>
> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I will
> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it :-(  I'm
> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before, but none
> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to offer
> help either.
>
> What do I need?

Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility" 
will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.

Good opportunity to encrypt your external disk as well (journaled, 
encrypted) so that it can be disposed of w/o worrying about its contents 
at its end-of-life.

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

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#21417

Frombriang@panix.com (Brian Gordon)
Date2014-03-09 19:58 +0000
Message-ID<lfih5d$9jm$1@reader1.panix.com>
In reply to#21416
In article <DaGdnXGXhcnOW4HOnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Alan Browne  <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
>> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came formatted for
>> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk, after
>> which all went well.
>>
>> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I will
>> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it :-(  I'm
>> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before, but none
>> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to offer
>> help either.
>>
>> What do I need?
>
>Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility" 
>will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.
>	[...]

So "format" is a byproduct of "erase."  Not seeing the word "format as a
command option had thrown me.  Thanks to all who took the time to make the
suggestion.

-- 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
| Brian Gordon     -->briang@panix.com<--     brian dot gordon at cox dot net |
+ brianggordon@hotmail.com   Bass: Lexington "Main Street Harmonizers" chorus +
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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#21419

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-03-09 16:17 -0400
Message-ID<SZudnSnV1IzAUYHOnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#21417
On 2014.03.09, 15:58 , Brian Gordon wrote:
> In article <DaGdnXGXhcnOW4HOnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne  <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>> On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
>>> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came formatted for
>>> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk, after
>>> which all went well.
>>>
>>> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I will
>>> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it :-(  I'm
>>> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before, but none
>>> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to offer
>>> help either.
>>>
>>> What do I need?
>>
>> Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility"
>> will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.
>> 	[...]
>
> So "format" is a byproduct of "erase."

In effect.

I agree it's not clear - Apple are good at that.  Like sidebar items in 
Finder that are hidden unless you cursor over the "Show" button that is 
hidden too (until you cursor over it).

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

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#21435

FromTom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com>
Date2014-03-09 23:10 +0000
Message-ID<bo4anuF6vikU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#21417
On 2014-03-09, Brian Gordon <briang@panix.com> wrote:
> In article <DaGdnXGXhcnOW4HOnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Alan Browne  <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
>>> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came formatted for
>>> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk, after
>>> which all went well.
>>>
>>> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I will
>>> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it :-(  I'm
>>> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before, but none
>>> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to offer
>>> help either.
>>>
>>> What do I need?
>>
>>Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility"
>>will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.
>>	[...]
>
> So "format" is a byproduct of "erase."  Not seeing the word "format as a
> command option had thrown me.  Thanks to all who took the time to make the
> suggestion.

Modern disk drives cannot be "formatted" in the old sense. They are factory
and permanetly formatted into 512 byte blocks.

The "Erase" function of Disk Utility writes an new, empty filesystem of the
type specified to the device or partition.

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#21437

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2014-03-09 19:30 -0500
Message-ID<090320141930345807%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#21435
In article <bo4anuF6vikU3@mid.individual.net>, Tom Stiller
<clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> wrote:

> > So "format" is a byproduct of "erase."  Not seeing the word "format as a
> > command option had thrown me.  Thanks to all who took the time to make the
> > suggestion.
> 
> Modern disk drives cannot be "formatted" in the old sense. They are factory
> and permanetly formatted into 512 byte blocks.

not all of them.

> The "Erase" function of Disk Utility writes an new, empty filesystem of the
> type specified to the device or partition.

and many people call that format because that's what it's called in
many formatting utilities.

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#21468

FromAlan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca>
Date2014-03-10 17:17 -0400
Message-ID<qdOdnbG8P_BntoPOnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@giganews.com>
In reply to#21435
On 2014.03.09, 19:10 , Tom Stiller wrote:
> On 2014-03-09, Brian Gordon <briang@panix.com> wrote:
>> In article <DaGdnXGXhcnOW4HOnZ2dnUVZ_smdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> Alan Browne  <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>> On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
>>>> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came formatted for
>>>> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk, after
>>>> which all went well.
>>>>
>>>> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I will
>>>> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it :-(  I'm
>>>> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before, but none
>>>> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to offer
>>>> help either.
>>>>
>>>> What do I need?
>>>
>>> Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility"
>>> will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.
>>> 	[...]
>>
>> So "format" is a byproduct of "erase."  Not seeing the word "format as a
>> command option had thrown me.  Thanks to all who took the time to make the
>> suggestion.
>
> Modern disk drives cannot be "formatted" in the old sense. They are factory
> and permanetly formatted into 512 byte blocks.

What you're referring to is usually called "Low level" or "deep" 
formatting.  And it's not "permanent" as short work with a magnet or 
degausser would reveal.

> The "Erase" function of Disk Utility writes an new, empty filesystem of the
> type specified to the device or partition.

Generically, "formatting" means setting up the filesystem.  eg: the old 
sense prevails in most people's minds regardless of what actually happens.

eg:
https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1604
"Mac OS 8.1 and later supports a volume format named Mac OS Extended 
format."

https://support.apple.com/kb/HT3509
"Format external drives to Mac OS Extended before using with Aperture"

http://knowledge.seagate.com/articles/en_US/FAQ/174395en/?language=en_US
Formatting an Internal or External hard drive using Mac OS

-- 
   Privacy has become an essential personal chore that most
   people are not trained to perform.
                  - Jaron Lanier, Scientific American, 2013.11.

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#21474

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2014-03-10 22:22 +0000
Message-ID<100320142222431165%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#21468
In article <qdOdnbG8P_BntoPOnZ2dnUVZ_gydnZ2d@giganews.com>, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> Generically, "formatting" means setting up the filesystem.  eg: the old 
> sense prevails in most people's minds regardless of what actually happens.

I'd have said "formatting means setting up the block, sector, and track
structure on the disk. I'm sure that's what I used to have to do under
Ultrix.

-- 
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

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#21461

From"M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com>
Date2014-03-10 13:57 -0400
Message-ID<lfkudh$d24$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#21416
On 3/9/14, 3:51 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> On 2014.03.09, 15:12 , Brian Gordon wrote:
>> A few years ago I bought an external disk for backups.  It came
>> formatted for
>> a PC, and gave me great pain until I reformatted it as a Mac f/s disk,
>> after
>> which all went well.
>>
>> That disk is dying, and I have ordered another one.  I'm pretty sure I
>> will
>> have to format that, too -- but I can't find a utility that does it
>> :-(  I'm
>> pretty sure I used Disk Doctor, DiskTool Pro, or DiskWarrier before,
>> but none
>> of them seem to have that option now.  Neither man or apropos seem to
>> offer
>> help either.
>>
>> What do I need?
>
> Disk Utility from your Applications folder.  (Spotlight "Disk utility"
> will find and run it.)  Select the disk, erase, and select the format.
Utilities folder,  finder -> Go -> Utilities or open the Utilities 
folder in the Applications folder
>
> Good opportunity to encrypt your external disk as well (journaled,
> encrypted) so that it can be disposed of w/o worrying about its contents
> at its end-of-life.
>

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