Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #28976 > unrolled thread

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Started by	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
First post	2015-04-20 00:40 +0000
Last post	2015-04-22 09:45 -0400
Articles	20 on this page of 393 — 26 participants

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#29250

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-21 03:36 +1200
Message-ID	<1m37ksf.1fw90shc391jnN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29212

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2015-04-20, Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> >
> > Wrong. Only Save or Save As saves a document. Are you retarded?
> 
> Not sure if you asked this in jest, or not; but on a serious note, I
> have to say he definitely seems to be mentally challenged with regard to
> simple logic. Either that or he's really good at giving the appearance
> of being mentally challenged while trolling.

Speaking as someone with aspergers, I have no time for this clown. Being
a fuckwit is not a mental condition I sympathise with. Jesus - even as a
teenager behind the social curve due to my social awkwardness, pedantry,
and geekiness, I had more social skills and likability than this
dickhead. Not to mention ability to learn and adapt.

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29210

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:16 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkg16Fg4haU3@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29094

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> "Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com> wrote in message
> mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net
>
>>>> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
>>>> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
>>>> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
>>>> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
>>>> available formats.
>>> 
>>> That is totally untrue.
>> 
>> Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you
>> think)
>> it is untrue.
>
> Actually, Jolly Roger explained why I was mistaken, based on the word 
> "formatting" versus "saving" (both of which are needed).

Nope, they aren't "both needed" in all cases. 

TextEdit (in its default configuration) treats new documents as rich
text documents. There is absolutely no need to issue the format command
if rich text is what you want - in that case, you can simply save the
document. 

If you want a plain text document, you first tell TextEdit you want the
document to be plain text by choosing Format > Make Plain Text, then you
save the document.

> It's non-intuitive

No, it's perfectly fine. You just don't have a very firm grasp on basic
logic. And you are *extremely* thick-headed.

>, but it turns out that the default text editor has two 
> different menus for *saving* files

Wrong.

> one for what Apple calls *formatting* a file (to either ASCII or RTF), 

Wrong. The format menu command has absolutely *nothing* to do with
saving a file. All it does is change the way TextEdit treats the
document in memory. For instance, when the format of a document is set
to rich text, there is a tab bar and style controls at the top of the
document window. When the format is set to plain text, those controls
are removed, since they don't apply to plain text documents. The same
goes for the options in the Save dialog box - only those formats
applicable to the type of document are shown when saving the document.

> and the other to *Save As* a variety of other formats.

Wrong. Saving presents the formats that are applicable to the type of
document that is in memory. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29099

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 22:57 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152257039783%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29089

In article <mh21s7$iaa$1@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152146265515%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> >> Either the Mac user temporarily saves to the wrong format and then
> >> formats to the desired format, or the Mac user temporarily sets the
> >> preferences to save to ASCII and then immediately unsets those
> >> preferences which then turns back on the ability to save as the other
> >> available formats.
> > 
> > That is totally untrue.
> 
> Since it's exactly what happens, you'll need to explain where (you think) 
> it is untrue.

It is not what happens at all, and it has repeatedly been explained to
you.  Explaining it one more time would serve no useful purpose because
you either can't understand or deliberately refuse to understand.

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#29120

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:32 +0000
Message-ID	<mh26hk$i5o$32@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29099

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152257039783%michelle@michelle.org

> It is not what happens at all, and it has repeatedly been explained to
> you.  Explaining it one more time would serve no useful purpose because
> you either can't understand or deliberately refuse to understand.

What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save

When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they use a 
different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other formats}

It would be nice to know the logic inherent in these two differently 
named menus which essentially do the same thing.

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#29123

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-19 23:36 -0700
Message-ID	<190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29120

In article <mh26hk$i5o$32@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
> using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save

If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
Plain Text" in that sequence.

> When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they
> use a different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other
> formats}

That is assuming that preferences weren't set to Plain Text, and also
ignores the various text encodings of Plain Text.

> It would be nice to know the logic inherent in these two differently 
> named menus which essentially do the same thing.

No, they do not do the same thing.

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#29128

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 06:46 +0000
Message-ID	<mh27c5$i5o$39@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29123

Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org

> If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
> Plain Text" in that sequence.

Yes but.

You lose the ability to save to the other formats.

Unless you re-set the preferences back.

Which is a waste of time.

The two-menu method is the best we can come up with if the user wishes to 
determine, on the fly, the file format.

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#29144

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 19:06 +1200
Message-ID	<1m36xty.ptg6tscooxklN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29128

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
> > Plain Text" in that sequence.
> 
> Yes but.
> 
> You lose the ability to save to the other formats.
> 
> Unless you re-set the preferences back.
> 
> Which is a waste of time.
> 
> The two-menu method is the best we can come up with if the user wishes to
> determine, on the fly, the file format.

Wrong. Nothing is lost.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29157

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 07:18 +0000
Message-ID	<mh2989$i5o$50@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29144

jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
1m36xty.ptg6tscooxklN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz

> Wrong. Nothing is lost.

Then you don't understand the fundamental implications of the preferences 
method.

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#29172

From	jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date	2015-04-20 20:12 +1200
Message-ID	<1m370x9.13enc2bgxpx3nN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to	#29157

Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xty.ptg6tscooxklN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > Wrong. Nothing is lost.
> 
> Then you don't understand the fundamental implications of the preferences
> method.

Please do explain it to me. I can switch formats at a menu
command/keyboard shortcut, and thus have appropriate Save dialog
actions.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#29209

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:14 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150714109424%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29157

In article <mh2989$i5o$50@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xty.ptg6tscooxklN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
> 
> > Wrong. Nothing is lost.
> 
> Then you don't understand the fundamental implications of the preferences 
> method.

There is no such thing as a "preferences method", and you certainly do
not understand what "preferences" mean, nor anything that we have been
repeatedly telling you.

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#29223

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:34 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkh3iFg4haU12@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29157

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote in message
> 1m36xty.ptg6tscooxklN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz
>
>> Wrong. Nothing is lost.
>
> Then you don't understand the fundamental implications of the preferences 
> method.

You are projecting. It is *you* who do not understand how things work,
clearly.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29225

From	"Adam H. Kerman" <ahk@chinet.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:36 +0000
Message-ID	<mh32ta$c69$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to	#29223

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
cpkh3iFg4haU12@mid.individual.net

> You are projecting. It is *you* who do not understand how things work,
> clearly.

Then explain how, using the suggested preferences method, how one
would save as, for example, a Word document.

Answer: You can't (not without undoing the preferences).

Which was the point that woooshed right by Michelle, but I would have 
thought that you were more technically astute.

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#29241

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:57 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150757084136%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29225

In article <mh32ta$c69$1@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
> cpkh3iFg4haU12@mid.individual.net
> 
> > You are projecting. It is *you* who do not understand how things work,
> > clearly.
> 
> Then explain how, using the suggested preferences method, how one
> would save as, for example, a Word document.
> 
> Answer: You can't (not without undoing the preferences).

Wrong.

> Which was the point that woooshed right by Michelle, but I would have 
> thought that you were more technically astute.

It didn't whoosh by me; it is totally incorrect.

If preferences are set to Plain Text and you want to save the document
as a Word document, here is what you do:

1.  Format > Make Rich Text
2.  Save
3.  In the Save As dialog, choose which version of Word you want to
save the document as in the File Format popup.
4.  Click the Save button.

If preferences are set to Rich Text and you want to save the document
as plain text, here is what you do:

1.  Format > Make Plain Text.
2.  Save
3.  (Optional) In the Save As dialog choose which plain text encoding
you want from the Plain Text Encoding popup.
4.  Click the Save button

However, in both situations, if preferences are set to the format you
want to save the document as, you skip step 1 in the above sequences.

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#29243

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 15:05 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkit9Fg4haU25@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29241

On 2015-04-20, Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> In article <mh32ta$c69$1@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
><ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
>
>> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote in message
>> cpkh3iFg4haU12@mid.individual.net
>> 
>> > You are projecting. It is *you* who do not understand how things work,
>> > clearly.
>> 
>> Then explain how, using the suggested preferences method, how one
>> would save as, for example, a Word document.
>> 
>> Answer: You can't (not without undoing the preferences).
>
> Wrong.
>
>> Which was the point that woooshed right by Michelle, but I would have 
>> thought that you were more technically astute.
>
> It didn't whoosh by me; it is totally incorrect.
>
> If preferences are set to Plain Text and you want to save the document
> as a Word document, here is what you do:
>
> 1.  Format > Make Rich Text
> 2.  Save
> 3.  In the Save As dialog, choose which version of Word you want to
> save the document as in the File Format popup.
> 4.  Click the Save button.
>
> If preferences are set to Rich Text and you want to save the document
> as plain text, here is what you do:
>
> 1.  Format > Make Plain Text.
> 2.  Save
> 3.  (Optional) In the Save As dialog choose which plain text encoding
> you want from the Plain Text Encoding popup.
> 4.  Click the Save button
>
> However, in both situations, if preferences are set to the format you
> want to save the document as, you skip step 1 in the above sequences.

Yep.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29208

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:12 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150712504629%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29128

In article <mh27c5$i5o$39@news.albasani.net>, Adam H. Kerman
<ahk@chinet.com> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org
> 
> > If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
> > Plain Text" in that sequence.
> 
> Yes but.
> 
> You lose the ability to save to the other formats.

NO, YOU DO NOT LOSE THAT ABILITY!!!!

> Unless you re-set the preferences back.

No, you do not have to reset the preferences back!

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#29221

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:33 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkh2nFg4haU11@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29128

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org
>
>> If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
>> Plain Text" in that sequence.
>
> Yes but.
>
> You lose the ability to save to the other formats.
>
> Unless you re-set the preferences back.

Wrong. The Format > Make Plain|Rich Text menu command is *always*
available regardless of what format you specify in preferences as the
default format.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29391

From	Alan Baker <email@domain.com>
Date	2015-04-22 12:30 -0700
Message-ID	<mh8st5$739$1@news.datemas.de>
In reply to	#29128

On 2015-04-20 06:46:29 +0000, Adam H. Kerman said:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152336301780%michelle@michelle.org
> 
>> If you set preferences to Plain Text, you won't need "Format > Make
>> Plain Text" in that sequence.
> 
> Yes but.
> 
> You lose the ability to save to the other formats.
> 
> Unless you re-set the preferences back.
> 
> Which is a waste of time.
> 
> The two-menu method is the best we can come up with if the user wishes to
> determine, on the fly, the file format.

You are...

...yet again...

...utterly wrong.

Set the preferences for new documents to plain text, and...

GASP!

...the Format menu now contains the command "Make Rich Text"...

...which, if invoked by an intelligent person, once again allows you to 
save into all those formats that TextEdit understands and which 
maintain the...

...wait for it...

...FORMATTING!

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#29397

From	Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com>
Date	2015-04-23 09:19 +1200
Message-ID	<230420150919341276%YourName@YourISP.com>
In reply to	#29391

In article <mh8st5$739$1@news.datemas.de>, Alan Baker
<email@domain.com> wrote:
> 
<snip>
> 
> Set the preferences for new documents to plain text, and...
> 
> GASP!
> 
> ...the Format menu now contains the command "Make Rich Text"...
> 
> ...which, if invoked by an intelligent person, once again allows you to 
> save into all those formats that TextEdit understands and which 
> maintain the...
> 
> ...wait for it...
> 
> ...FORMATTING!

Yeah, but it's frustrating having to delete all the $ and £ symbols
from the the *rich* text document.   ;-)

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#29219

From	Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date	2015-04-20 14:32 +0000
Message-ID	<cpkh0eFg4haU10@mid.individual.net>
In reply to	#29120

On 2015-04-20, Adam H. Kerman <ahk@chinet.com> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote in message
> 190420152257039783%michelle@michelle.org
>
>> It is not what happens at all, and it has repeatedly been explained to
>> you.  Explaining it one more time would serve no useful purpose because
>> you either can't understand or deliberately refuse to understand.
>
> What I understand is that I will advise the user save a file *to* TEXT 
> using the "Format" sequence, namely: Format > Make Plain Text, File > Save
>
> When the user wishes to save *as" another format, I'll advise they use a 
> different sequence, namely: File > Save > File Format > {other formats}
>
> It would be nice to know the logic inherent in these two differently 
> named menus which essentially do the same thing.

There is no such thing as File > Save > File Format > {other formats}!

Get this through your incredibly thick head:

There are only two formats with respect to TextEdit: plain text, and
rich text. The format menu command does *not* save a file. All it does
is change the way TextEdit treats the open document in memory. For plain
text files, for example, the tab bar and styling controls are hidden in
the document window, and options to save the file in rich text format
are hidden in the Save window. TextEdit has a preference setting that
allows you to specify the format (plain or rich text) to use for new
documents. If that preference setting is set to rich text, and you
create a new document, the document will be treated as a rich text
document, which means if you want to save a RTF, all you need to do is
save it! There is no reason to issue a Format command if you want rich
text since it's *already* rich text! And in fact, the Format menu will
not allow you to set it to rich text since it already *is* rich text!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#29232

From	Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org>
Date	2015-04-20 07:49 -0700
Message-ID	<200420150749256373%michelle@michelle.org>
In reply to	#29219

In article <cpkh0eFg4haU10@mid.individual.net>, Jolly Roger
<jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> There is no such thing as File > Save > File Format > {other formats}!

Actually, in the Save As dialog for Rich Text documents there is a File
Format popup that allows you to save as a Rich Text document, HTML
file, various MS Word documents, etc.  That is what he is referring to.

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csiph-web

How do mac users create a blank text file where you want it?

Contents

#29250

#29210

#29099

#29120

#29123

#29128

#29144

#29157

#29172

#29209

#29223

#29225

#29241

#29243

#29208

#29221

#29391

#29397

#29219

#29232