Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]


Groups > comp.sys.mac.apps > #28633 > unrolled thread

back from the brink

Started byErilar <drache@notchibardun.net>
First post2015-04-09 14:00 +0000
Last post2015-04-13 21:51 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 139 — 27 participants

Back to article view | Back to comp.sys.mac.apps


Contents

  back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 14:00 +0000
    Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 10:06 -0400
      Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 02:47 +1300
      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 15:56 +0000
        Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-09 16:13 +0000
          Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 17:14 +0000
            Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-09 17:34 +0000
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 19:24 +0000
              Re: back from the brink Paul F Austin <pfaustin@bellsouth.net> - 2015-04-09 16:15 -0400
                Re: back from the brink Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2015-04-10 08:56 +1200
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 21:20 +0000
                Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 22:39 +0000
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
                    Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-10 11:50 +0000
                  Re: back from the brink "D. Spencer Hines" <d_spencerhines@america.com> - 2015-05-09 13:12 -1000
                Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 13:06 +1300
                  Re: back from the brink Paul F Austin <pfaustin@bellsouth.net> - 2015-04-11 17:19 -0400
                    Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-12 14:09 +1300
                      Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-11 22:23 -0400
                        Re: back from the brink "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid> - 2015-04-12 07:56 -0700
                          Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-12 11:16 -0400
                            Re: back from the brink "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid> - 2015-04-12 08:24 -0700
                              Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-12 11:33 -0400
                                Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-12 15:52 +0000
                                Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-12 16:57 +0100
                                Re: back from the brink "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid> - 2015-04-12 10:28 -0700
                                  Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-12 19:14 +0100
                                    Re: back from the brink "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid> - 2015-04-12 11:47 -0700
                                  Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-12 23:37 +0000
                                    Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-13 15:01 +1200
                                      Re: back from the brink Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-04-13 05:32 +0000
                                      Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-13 10:15 +0100
                                        Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-14 10:39 +1200
                                      Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-13 13:48 +0000
                                        Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-14 10:40 +1200
                                          Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-14 09:30 +0100
                                            Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-14 21:16 +1200
                                              Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-14 22:15 +1300
                                                Re: back from the brink dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-14 21:57 +1000
                                                  Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-15 13:12 +1300
                                          Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-14 12:51 +0000
                                            Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-15 11:04 +1200
                                              Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-14 23:10 +0000
                                                Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-15 21:56 +1200
                                                  Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-15 12:53 +0000
                                                    Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-16 09:15 +1200
                                                      Re: back from the brink dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> - 2015-04-16 08:02 +1000
                                                      Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-15 22:49 +0000
                                                        Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-16 12:38 +1200
                                                          Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-16 13:29 +0000
                                                            Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-17 10:34 +1200
                                                  Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-15 18:02 +0100
                                                  Re: back from the brink "zulu" <zulu.romeotangohotel@ntlworld.com> - 2015-04-15 21:31 +0100
                                                    Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-16 09:16 +1200
                                                      Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-16 17:28 +1300
                                                        Re: back from the brink Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2015-04-15 23:30 -0700
                                                        Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-16 21:30 +1200
                              Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-13 08:49 +1300
                      Re: back from the brink Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-04-12 09:58 +0000
                        Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-13 00:06 +1300
                          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-12 14:41 +0000
                Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-05-10 02:45 +0000
            Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 19:24 +0000
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 19:24 +0000
            Re: back from the brink Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-04-09 21:39 +0000
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
                Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 22:53 -0400
                Re: back from the brink Ed Cryer <ed@somewhere.in.the.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:45 +0100
        Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 12:46 -0400
        Re: back from the brink David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-04-09 12:44 -0500
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 19:24 +0000
            Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 17:08 -0400
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 21:20 +0000
                Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 17:23 -0400
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
                    Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 22:53 -0400
                      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
                        Re: back from the brink David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-04-10 17:30 -0500
                          Re: back from the brink Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2015-04-10 18:55 -0400
                            Re: back from the brink David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-04-10 19:55 -0500
                    Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 18:28 +1300
                      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
                        Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-11 18:13 +1300
                        Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-11 11:18 +0000
                          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 14:14 +0000
            Re: back from the brink David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-04-09 16:08 -0500
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 21:20 +0000
                Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-09 22:34 +0000
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
                Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 13:06 +1300
                  Re: back from the brink dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-10 15:21 +1200
                    Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 18:32 +1300
                      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
                        Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-11 18:13 +1300
                          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 14:14 +0000
                            Re: back from the brink Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-04-11 15:35 +0000
                              Re: back from the brink Zaidy036 <Zaidy036@isp.spam> - 2015-04-11 16:06 +0000
                Re: back from the brink David Ritz <dritz@mindspring.com> - 2015-04-11 16:28 -0500
            Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 13:06 +1300
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
                Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 22:53 -0400
                Re: back from the brink dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-04-10 15:21 +1200
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
        Re: back from the brink jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-04-10 12:52 +1300
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 01:30 +0000
            Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-09 22:53 -0400
              Re: back from the brink Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> - 2015-04-10 19:58 +1200
                Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
                Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-10 22:44 +0100
                  Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 02:47 +0000
                    Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-11 09:40 +0100
                      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 14:14 +0000
                        Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-11 17:31 +0100
                          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-12 14:40 +0000
                            Re: Back From The Brink "D. Spencer Hines" <d_spencerhines@america.com> - 2015-04-12 04:44 -1000
                              Re: Back From The Brink Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-04-12 14:53 +0000
                            Re: back from the brink Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2015-04-12 16:53 +0100
                              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-12 21:56 +0000
                            Re: back from the brink Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-04-12 17:05 +0000
                              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-12 21:56 +0000
                                Re: back from the brink Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-04-12 22:15 +0000
                                  Re: back from the brink nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-04-12 18:42 -0400
                                    Re: back from the brink Patty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com> - 2015-04-13 05:30 +0000
                                      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-13 21:51 +0000
                                        Re: back from the brink JoeyDee <email@nothanks.com> - 2015-04-13 18:31 -0400
    Re: back from the brink "JohnT" <johnT@spamnot.com> - 2015-04-09 18:22 +0100
      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-09 19:24 +0000
        Re: back from the brink "tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-10 13:03 +0100
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
            Re: back from the brink "tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-11 11:01 +0100
              Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 14:14 +0000
                Re: back from the brink "tim....." <tims_new_home@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-04-11 15:38 +0100
    Re: back from the brink Aldo Raine <apache@scalpem.net> - 2015-04-10 08:25 -0400
      Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-10 20:37 +0000
        Re: back from the brink John McWilliams <jpmcw@comcast.net> - 2015-04-10 20:32 -0700
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-11 14:14 +0000
        Re: back from the brink poldy <poldy@kfu.com> - 2015-04-13 11:09 -0700
          Re: back from the brink Erilar <drache@notchibardun.net> - 2015-04-13 21:51 +0000

Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →


#28769

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-04-12 11:16 -0400
Message-ID<120420151116156594%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#28765
In article <4p1liadollgqf4j03k6u2fcdhm64shr8r8@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
<kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:

> > > My personal favourite was always people who used the Trash/Recycle Bin
> > > as storage for files they wanted out of the way, but still accessible,
> > > with the inevitable disaster following.
> > 
> > i know someone who when visiting a client, first empties their trash.
> > 
> > if they bitch, he lectures them about storing real stuff in the real
> > trash can.
> > 
> > his clients no longer use it as storage.
> 
> If it were me, I would no longer use him for service. Even though I
> agree with his point of view, what he does is mean and nasty, and can
> even hurt someone who *doesn't* use it for storage, but wants to get
> back something that was deleted.

then they can restore it from a backup.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28772

From"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid>
Date2015-04-12 08:24 -0700
Message-ID<c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>
In reply to#28769
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:16:15 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

> In article <4p1liadollgqf4j03k6u2fcdhm64shr8r8@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > > > My personal favourite was always people who used the Trash/Recycle Bin
> > > > as storage for files they wanted out of the way, but still accessible,
> > > > with the inevitable disaster following.
> > > 
> > > i know someone who when visiting a client, first empties their trash.
> > > 
> > > if they bitch, he lectures them about storing real stuff in the real
> > > trash can.
> > > 
> > > his clients no longer use it as storage.
> > 
> > If it were me, I would no longer use him for service. Even though I
> > agree with his point of view, what he does is mean and nasty, and can
> > even hurt someone who *doesn't* use it for storage, but wants to get
> > back something that was deleted.
> 
> then they can restore it from a backup.


Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup. And the file may have
been created *after* the last backup was made. Even if he has the file
in a backup, restoring it from a backup is much more trouble than from
the recycle bin.

The whole point of having a recycle bin is to enable you to easily get
back a file you thought you no longer wanted, but changed your mind
about.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28773

Fromnospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Date2015-04-12 11:33 -0400
Message-ID<120420151133530069%nospam@nospam.invalid>
In reply to#28772
In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
<kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:

> > > > > My personal favourite was always people who used the Trash/Recycle Bin
> > > > > as storage for files they wanted out of the way, but still accessible,
> > > > > with the inevitable disaster following.
> > > > 
> > > > i know someone who when visiting a client, first empties their trash.
> > > > 
> > > > if they bitch, he lectures them about storing real stuff in the real
> > > > trash can.
> > > > 
> > > > his clients no longer use it as storage.
> > > 
> > > If it were me, I would no longer use him for service. Even though I
> > > agree with his point of view, what he does is mean and nasty, and can
> > > even hurt someone who *doesn't* use it for storage, but wants to get
> > > back something that was deleted.
> > 
> > then they can restore it from a backup.
> 
> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.

then they're screwed. 

anyone who doesn't have a backup *will* lose data and likely *much*
more than one file. 

not only that but i'm sure he lectures his clients about having proper
backups, so this fabricated scenario isn't even going to happen anyway.

> And the file may have
> been created *after* the last backup was made. Even if he has the file
> in a backup, restoring it from a backup is much more trouble than from
> the recycle bin.

time machine takes snapshots every hour, so at most, they'll lose 1
hour's worth of work.

> The whole point of having a recycle bin is to enable you to easily get
> back a file you thought you no longer wanted, but changed your mind
> about.

no it isn't. it's a trash can for files that are considered trash.

calling a recycle bin doesn't change that. do you pull bottles and
newspapers out of the recycle bins where you live? 

if someone changes their mind about a file, then they can pull it from
a backup. that's what backups are for. as i said, if someone doesn't
back up their stuff, they *will* lose data at some point, and not just
a file they thought they didn't need, but the entire drive with files
they absolutely *do* need.

unfortunately, some people learn that the hard way.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28774

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-04-12 15:52 +0000
Message-ID<covimgF52cvU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#28773
On 2015-04-12, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>
> if someone changes their mind about a file, then they can pull it from
> a backup. that's what backups are for. as i said, if someone doesn't
> back up their stuff, they *will* lose data at some point, and not just
> a file they thought they didn't need, but the entire drive with files
> they absolutely *do* need.
>
> unfortunately, some people learn that the hard way.

You can't fix stupid.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28777

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2015-04-12 16:57 +0100
Message-ID<120420151657297680%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#28773
In article <120420151133530069%nospam@nospam.invalid>, nospam
<nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
><kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:

>> The whole point of having a recycle bin is to enable you to easily get
>> back a file you thought you no longer wanted, but changed your mind
>> about.
>
>no it isn't. it's a trash can for files that are considered trash.

The point of being able to get stuff out of the Trash is for when you
trash it, then realise you trashed the wrong thing. So you can get it
right back out again - and you can't do that with rm.

-- 
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28782

From"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid>
Date2015-04-12 10:28 -0700
Message-ID<it9lial4k45qv0k7h5gurprslrq0s894gt@4ax.com>
In reply to#28773
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
> 
> > > > > > My personal favourite was always people who used the Trash/Recycle Bin
> > > > > > as storage for files they wanted out of the way, but still accessible,
> > > > > > with the inevitable disaster following.
> > > > > 
> > > > > i know someone who when visiting a client, first empties their trash.
> > > > > 
> > > > > if they bitch, he lectures them about storing real stuff in the real
> > > > > trash can.
> > > > > 
> > > > > his clients no longer use it as storage.
> > > > 
> > > > If it were me, I would no longer use him for service. Even though I
> > > > agree with his point of view, what he does is mean and nasty, and can
> > > > even hurt someone who *doesn't* use it for storage, but wants to get
> > > > back something that was deleted.
> > > 
> > > then they can restore it from a backup.
> > 
> > Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
> 
> then they're screwed. 


Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
don't have backup than those who do have them


> 
> anyone who doesn't have a backup *will* lose data and likely *much*
> more than one file. 
> 
> not only that but i'm sure he lectures his clients about having proper
> backups, so this fabricated scenario isn't even going to happen anyway.
> 
> > And the file may have
> > been created *after* the last backup was made. Even if he has the file
> > in a backup, restoring it from a backup is much more trouble than from
> > the recycle bin.
> 
> time machine takes snapshots every hour, so at most, they'll lose 1
> hour's worth of work.
> 
> > The whole point of having a recycle bin is to enable you to easily get
> > back a file you thought you no longer wanted, but changed your mind
> > about.
> 
> no it isn't. 


It certainly is. If you want to delete a file and not have the option
of getting it back, don't put it in the recycle bin. Just hold down
the shift key when you delete it.

The difference in this respect between recent versions of Windows and
older ones is that the older ones didn't have a recycle bin, and if
you deleted a fine it was gone without a way to get it back (yes, I
know that you can often get back files using an undelete program like
Restoration, but most people don't know that, and even if they do know
it, it's not always possible). Adding the recycle bin to Windows added
the capability to easily change your mind and get back something you
thought you didn't want.


> it's a trash can for files that are considered trash.


Of course. But like almost everyone else, every now and then, I make a
mistake, realize I shouldn't have deleted that file, and want it back.
The recycle bin can save your butt when you make some kinds of
mistakes.

 
> calling a recycle bin doesn't change that. do you pull bottles and
> newspapers out of the recycle bins where you live? 


No, but I occasionally pull out of something else I threw away, like
mail I thought I didn't need.


 
> if someone changes their mind about a file, then they can pull it from
> a backup. that's what backups are for. 


No, it's not. Although that's a secondary use of a backup, it's not
its main purpose. Its main purpose to be able to get back files when
something goes wrong, like a head crash, user error, or theft of the
computer.


> as i said, if someone doesn't
> back up their stuff, they *will* lose data at some point, and not just
> a file they thought they didn't need, but the entire drive with files
> they absolutely *do* need.


Yes. And as I've said many times in newsgroups and forums "said, it's
not a matter of *whether* you will have such a problem, but when."


> unfortunately, some people learn that the hard way.



Yes. I'm glad we agree on something <g>

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28784

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2015-04-12 19:14 +0100
Message-ID<120420151914572603%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#28782
In article <it9lial4k45qv0k7h5gurprslrq0s894gt@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
<kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>wrote:

>> then they're screwed. 

>Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>don't have backup than those who do have them

Unfortunately probably true.

>> no it isn't. 
>
>It certainly is. If you want to delete a file and not have the option
>of getting it back, don't put it in the recycle bin. Just hold down
>the shift key when you delete it.

Doing that does nothing here.

>The difference in this respect between recent versions of Windows ...

What's Windows got to do with anything? If you're gonna give advice on
a cross-platform issue (backups, the Trash/Recycle Bin), please make it
cross-platform advice.

-- 
"Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your 
intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, 
and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. 
I want to know what the evidence shows."             -- Richard Dawkins

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28785

From"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@kb.invalid>
Date2015-04-12 11:47 -0700
Message-ID<k1flial2r8mmd23in6ll4np5f5ku83t3qn@4ax.com>
In reply to#28784
On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 19:14:57 +0100, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

 
> >The difference in this respect between recent versions of Windows ...
> 
> What's Windows got to do with anything? If you're gonna give advice on
> a cross-platform issue (backups, the Trash/Recycle Bin), please make it
> cross-platform advice.


We've been talking about the recycle bin.  As far as I know, that term
is used only in Windows.

However I now see that this thread has been cross-posted to four
newsgroups, two of which are about apple computers. Sorry, I hadn't
noticed that earlier. If I had, I either wouldn't have posted at all,
or trimmed the newsgroups I was replying to the one I read it in:
rec.travel.europe.


[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28795

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-04-12 23:37 +0000
Message-ID<cp0dumFc6hoU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#28782
On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>> 
>> then they're screwed. 
>
> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
> don't have backup than those who do have them

I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28801

FromEric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Date2015-04-13 15:01 +1200
Message-ID<hobmia1aun4umnqe7pbhk894becaukv79t@4ax.com>
In reply to#28795
On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>> 
>>> then they're screwed. 
>>
>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>
>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.

I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.

On the other hand, I back up all vital data on PC1 to PC 2. All vital
data on PC 2 is backed up onto PC 1. Then both PC backups are backed
up onto a 4Tb external drive on PC 1. Backups are controlled by Second
Copy http://www.secondcopy.com/ which also is on PC 1.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28804

FromPatty Winter <patty1@wintertime.com>
Date2015-04-13 05:32 +0000
Message-ID<552b54ea$0$36558$742ec2ed@news.sonic.net>
In reply to#28801
In article <hobmia1aun4umnqe7pbhk894becaukv79t@4ax.com>,
Eric Stevens  <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

[unneeded quotage and newsgroups deleted]


>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>
>I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.

Wow, you either don't know many Mac users, or all the ones you do know
are really dumb. Or both.


Patty

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28807

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2015-04-13 10:15 +0100
Message-ID<130420151015481957%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#28801
In article <hobmia1aun4umnqe7pbhk894becaukv79t@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

>On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>> 
>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>
>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>
>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>
>I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.

Why not? It's simple enough to do.

-- 
"Please stop telling us what you feel. Please stop telling us what your 
intuition is. Your intuitive feelings are of no interest whatsoever, 
and nor are mine. I don't give a bugger what you feel, or what I feel. 
I want to know what the evidence shows."             -- Richard Dawkins

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28824

FromEric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Date2015-04-14 10:39 +1200
Message-ID<fahoia9htkm58vtasqf219jm40c1ivc741@4ax.com>
In reply to#28807
On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 10:15:48 +0100, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

>In article <hobmia1aun4umnqe7pbhk894becaukv79t@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>>> 
>>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>>
>>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>>
>>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>>
>>I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.
>
>Why not? It's simple enough to do.

I don't know any single good answer. I think it's too complicated to
do. (Complicated?).
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28813

FromJolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Date2015-04-13 13:48 +0000
Message-ID<cp1vpjFnplnU1@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#28801
On 2015-04-13, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>> 
>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>
>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>
>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>
> I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.

And how many Mac users do you know?

> On the other hand, I back up all vital data on PC1 to PC 2. All vital
> data on PC 2 is backed up onto PC 1. Then both PC backups are backed
> up onto a 4Tb external drive on PC 1. Backups are controlled by Second
> Copy http://www.secondcopy.com/ which also is on PC 1.

That's all well and good, but is nowhere near the user experience of
connecting a drive and clicking "Use for Backups".

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28825

FromEric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Date2015-04-14 10:40 +1200
Message-ID<6dhoiah5ihadh6pmcf1a90jo4ik27kjif8@4ax.com>
In reply to#28813
On 13 Apr 2015 13:48:36 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

>On 2015-04-13, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>> On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>>> 
>>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>>
>>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>>
>>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>>
>> I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.
>
>And how many Mac users do you know?
>
>> On the other hand, I back up all vital data on PC1 to PC 2. All vital
>> data on PC 2 is backed up onto PC 1. Then both PC backups are backed
>> up onto a 4Tb external drive on PC 1. Backups are controlled by Second
>> Copy http://www.secondcopy.com/ which also is on PC 1.
>
>That's all well and good, but is nowhere near the user experience of
>connecting a drive and clicking "Use for Backups".

I don't do it for 'user experience'. In fact, I'm trying to avoid a
'user experience'.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28831

FromTim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
Date2015-04-14 09:30 +0100
Message-ID<140420150930307644%timstreater@greenbee.net>
In reply to#28825
In article <6dhoiah5ihadh6pmcf1a90jo4ik27kjif8@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
<eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

>On 13 Apr 2015 13:48:36 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>>On 2015-04-13, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>> On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>>>
>>>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>>>
>>> I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.
>>
>>And how many Mac users do you know?
>>
>>> On the other hand, I back up all vital data on PC1 to PC 2. All vital
>>> data on PC 2 is backed up onto PC 1. Then both PC backups are backed
>>> up onto a 4Tb external drive on PC 1. Backups are controlled by Second
>>> Copy http://www.secondcopy.com/ which also is on PC 1.
>>
>>That's all well and good, but is nowhere near the user experience of
>>connecting a drive and clicking "Use for Backups".
>
>I don't do it for 'user experience'. In fact, I'm trying to avoid a
>'user experience'.

Ah, so you're throwing your computer away then? That's the only way to
avoid a "user experience", which is what a user (we are all users)
experiences when they use a computer.

Plugging in a new external [1] drive is easy enough; I tend to use the
Firewire port on my Mini for that.

I then go:

  System Preferences -> Time Machine

and click the On button and click Select Disk... to select the disk I
just plugged in. That's it.

Backups will now happen every hour.

Simples.

-- 
"A committee is a cul-de-sac down which ideas are lured and then 
 quietly strangled." - Sir Barnett Cocks (1907-1989)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28833

FromEric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz>
Date2015-04-14 21:16 +1200
Message-ID<cmmpial71aigb6vqfdtv0srjrusjk9bk60@4ax.com>
In reply to#28831
On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 09:30:30 +0100, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

>In article <6dhoiah5ihadh6pmcf1a90jo4ik27kjif8@4ax.com>, Eric Stevens
><eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>On 13 Apr 2015 13:48:36 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2015-04-13, Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
>>>> On 12 Apr 2015 23:37:58 GMT, Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 2015-04-12, Ken Blake, MVP <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 12 Apr 2015 11:33:53 -0400, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <c93lia53bfp7v5v1p451tt40apsad6mhb7@4ax.com>, Ken Blake, MVP
>>>>>>> <kblake@kb.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Maybe. Unfortunately, not everyone has a backup.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> then they're screwed. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course. Nevertheless, not having one is very common. I have no
>>>>>> statistics, but if I were a betting man I'd bet that fewer people
>>>>>> don't have backup than those who do have them
>>>>>
>>>>>I suspect that's much less the case with Mac users, since Time Machine
>>>>>comes built-in and using it is literally as simple as connecting a hard
>>>>>drive to the computer and clicking "Use as Backup Disk" when prompted.
>>>>
>>>> I don't personally know any Mac users who do that.
>>>
>>>And how many Mac users do you know?
>>>
>>>> On the other hand, I back up all vital data on PC1 to PC 2. All vital
>>>> data on PC 2 is backed up onto PC 1. Then both PC backups are backed
>>>> up onto a 4Tb external drive on PC 1. Backups are controlled by Second
>>>> Copy http://www.secondcopy.com/ which also is on PC 1.
>>>
>>>That's all well and good, but is nowhere near the user experience of
>>>connecting a drive and clicking "Use for Backups".
>>
>>I don't do it for 'user experience'. In fact, I'm trying to avoid a
>>'user experience'.
>
>Ah, so you're throwing your computer away then? That's the only way to
>avoid a "user experience", which is what a user (we are all users)
>experiences when they use a computer.
>
>Plugging in a new external [1] drive is easy enough; I tend to use the
>Firewire port on my Mini for that.
>
>I then go:
>
>  System Preferences -> Time Machine
>
>and click the On button and click Select Disk... to select the disk I
>just plugged in. That's it.
>
>Backups will now happen every hour.
>
>Simples.
-- 

Regards,

Eric Stevens

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28834

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-04-14 22:15 +1300
Message-ID<1m2w34y.wpioxgzdjwclN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#28833
Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:

> Regards,
> 
> Eric Stevens

The no content post :-D It makes reading very easy.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28835

Fromdorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com>
Date2015-04-14 21:57 +1000
Message-ID<do_ray_me-845221.21572914042015@aioe.org>
In reply to#28834
In article <1m2w34y.wpioxgzdjwclN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
 jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:

> Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Eric Stevens
> 
> The no content post :-D It makes reading very easy.

It was not *no* content. Or if it was by definition, it was *the 
ultimate* in bad quoting, a parody of bad quoting. Too often, there 
are a few words addressing one thing and a whole lot of irrelevant 
stuff quoted. Here was a case of everything quoted being irrelevant to 
nothing at all.

-- 
dorayme

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#28846

Fromjamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet)
Date2015-04-15 13:12 +1300
Message-ID<1m2x8o9.1d5tjvnkls5zxN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>
In reply to#28835
dorayme <do_ray_me@bigpond.com> wrote:

> In article <1m2w34y.wpioxgzdjwclN%jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz>,
>  jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) wrote:
> 
> > Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Eric Stevens
> > 
> > The no content post :-D It makes reading very easy.
> 
> It was not *no* content. Or if it was by definition, it was *the 
> ultimate* in bad quoting, a parody of bad quoting. Too often, there 
> are a few words addressing one thing and a whole lot of irrelevant 
> stuff quoted. Here was a case of everything quoted being irrelevant to
> nothing at all.

Heh *grins*
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | comp.sys.mac.apps


csiph-web