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New old behavior in mail.app

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  New old behavior in mail.app Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-24 20:51 -0700
    Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-25 06:19 +0000
    Re: New old behavior in mail.app spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-03-25 12:14 +0100
      Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-25 12:10 +0000
        Re: New old behavior in mail.app Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2015-03-25 16:22 +0000
        Re: New old behavior in mail.app Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-25 17:20 +0000
          Re: New old behavior in mail.app Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2015-03-25 21:41 +0000
            Re: New old behavior in mail.app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 17:53 -0400
              Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-25 22:35 +0000
                Re: New old behavior in mail.app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 18:41 -0400
                  Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-26 03:50 +0000
                    Re: New old behavior in mail.app nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-03-25 23:59 -0400
                      Re: New old behavior in mail.app Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-26 12:44 +0000
                      Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-26 21:55 +0000
                        Re: New old behavior in mail.app "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2015-03-27 04:08 -0400
                        Re: New old behavior in mail.app Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2015-03-27 13:46 +0000
                          Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-27 22:35 +0000
                  Re: New old behavior in mail.app Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-03-26 12:41 +0000
              Re: New old behavior in mail.app jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-26 12:24 +1300
                Re: New old behavior in mail.app spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-03-26 08:52 +0100
                  Re: New old behavior in mail.app dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-26 23:07 +1300
                  Re: New old behavior in mail.app jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-27 02:50 +1300
                    Re: New old behavior in mail.app spamfalle2@arcor.de (Marc Stibane) - 2015-03-26 18:35 +0100
                      Re: New old behavior in mail.app jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-27 07:36 +1300
                    Re: New old behavior in mail.app dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2015-03-27 11:42 +1300
              Re: New old behavior in mail.app Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2015-03-26 19:16 +0000
            Re: New old behavior in mail.app jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2015-03-26 12:24 +1300
          Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-25 21:56 +0000
      Re: New old behavior in mail.app Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-03-25 08:42 -0700
      Re: New old behavior in mail.app Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> - 2015-03-25 16:22 +0000
        Re: New old behavior in mail.app Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-03-25 22:10 +0000

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#28395

Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > What kills me is MacSOUP's (Mac offline Usenet client) 
> 
> BTW - there's a newer version available... (*)

Same note applies to you - I'm running 2.8.4 final, but you have
2.8.4b3. I forgot what changed between those versions, but a quick
search found this from Stefan's announcement post:

- In addition to the keys on the numeric keypad, which let you
navigate the thread tree in all directions, you can now use the
arrow keys while holding down Shift to navigate at least
horizontally and vertically. Note that Left-arrow (go to parent
article) is different from Shift-Left-Arrow (go the next article
that comes directly to the left in the thread tree, no matter how it
is related to the current article). Likewise for Right-Arrow.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#28399

Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> > What kills me is MacSOUP's (Mac offline Usenet client) 
> 
> BTW - there's a newer version available... (*)

I don't want the changes. Things work fine for me in 2.8.3 and I don't
care about the only bug (DST doesn't update till 2.8.3 is restarted).

> > afterthought of a bare bones plain text email client that hasn't changed
> > in two decades, is better at mailing lists (due to it's excellent
> > threading and graphical thread tree), filtering, and clean simple yet
> > powerful UI, than Apple Mail is.
> 
> Too bad MacSOUP is a Carbon app - and the author is not motivated in
> porting it to Cocoa, because of the dwindling usenet usage.
> 
> 
> (*) as you can see in my User-Agent header

So long it keeps working, I'm happy enough. If I ever need to, I can run
the classic version in Sheepshaver. Or maybe I'll move to tin *shrug*

-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#28418

Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:
>> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

>>> What kills me is MacSOUP's (Mac offline Usenet client) 
>> BTW - there's a newer version available... (*)
> I don't want the changes. Things work fine for me in 2.8.3

The main reason for 2.8.4 is that I begged Stefan to have a different
keyboard shortcut for the enter key since that's not on MacBooks. So he
made the key directly left of the return key (I think on US keyboards it
is labeled "\") do the same...



-- 
In a world without walls and fences,
   who needs windows and gates?

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#28423

Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:

> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:
> >> Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> 
> >>> What kills me is MacSOUP's (Mac offline Usenet client) 
> >> BTW - there's a newer version available... (*)
> > I don't want the changes. Things work fine for me in 2.8.3
> 
> The main reason for 2.8.4 is that I begged Stefan to have a different
> keyboard shortcut for the enter key since that's not on MacBooks. So he
> made the key directly left of the return key (I think on US keyboards it
> is labeled "\") do the same...

Yeah, I only use MacSOUP on Macs without that issue, so I'm fine :-) I'm
not a fan of change for the sake of change. I used to be, and suffered
for it, heh.

Regards,
 Jamie Kahn Genet
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#28430

Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:

> Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:
> 
> > Jamie Kahn Genet <jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz> wrote:
> > 
> > > What kills me is MacSOUP's (Mac offline Usenet client) 
> > 
> > BTW - there's a newer version available... (*)
> 
> I don't want the changes. Things work fine for me in 2.8.3 and I don't
> care about the only bug (DST doesn't update till 2.8.3 is restarted).

Compatibility with Mavericks was a crucial issue for me. I also
appreciated the "not breaking URLs" change. The daylight saving issue
was one which had annoyed me twice a year for at least a decade.

The Enter key was not an issue for me, because when I moved to a newer
laptop with a right Option key instead of an Enter key, I found
KeyRemap4MacBook (now "Karabiner") which had a mapping that restored the
previous behaviour.

I didn't just need the Enter key in MacSOUP - I have at least four
applications in which I use the Enter key regularly and it behaves
differently from Return, therefore a solution just for MacSOUP wouldn't
have helped.

-- 
David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

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#28425

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <meva2r$tm4$1@dont-email.me>, Erilar
> <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:
> 
>> There were several things about Eudora I rather liked.
> 
> one being that it actually worked.
> 
>> I've become
>> accustomed to Mail, but that doesn't mean I think it's ideal, by any means
> 
> it's slow, buggy and downright awful.

You said it 8-)
-- 
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

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#28388

Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> wrote:

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
> > On 2015-03-25, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> >> 
> >> Mail.app is simply not designed for opening messages in separate
> >> windows. I know, I tried many times for years to make it work well
> >> before giving up. At least int eh current version you have a narrow
> >> column for the list of messages and a wide column for the actual
> >> message, so no more of this shortening the message window to see more of
> >> the message list.
> > 
> > Personally, I don't miss multiple windows for mail *at* *all*. I also
> > prefer a paned interface for things like news groups, and a tabbed
> > interface for web browsing.
> 
> There were several things about Eudora I rather liked. I've become
> accustomed to Mail, but that doesn't mean I think it's ideal, by any means
> 8-)

I liked Eudora's multiple window UI a lot, back in the day. I still open
emails in Apple Mail inside their own window.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#28379

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
> On 2015-03-25, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>
>> Mail.app is simply not designed for opening messages in separate
>> windows. I know, I tried many times for years to make it work well
>> before giving up. At least int eh current version you have a narrow
>> column for the list of messages and a wide column for the actual
>> message, so no more of this shortening the message window to see more of
>> the message list.

> Personally, I don't miss multiple windows for mail *at* *all*. I also
> prefer a paned interface for things like news groups, and a tabbed
> interface for web browsing.

Now that the message list is a column instead of a header (the old
Outlook-esque three-pane view) I don't mind it much. I am annoyed that
the message list allows no customization on fonts or font sizes or
bold/etc.

ESPECIALLY since there are settings in the preferences for message list
font which is entirely ignored in the default view.

-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
There's no present. There's only the immediate future and the recent
past.

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#28364

In article <1m1u9kf.13bbsng1nwbyb8N@marc.my-fqdn.de>, Marc Stibane
<spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:

> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> 
> > Deleting a message while holding down the option key once again removes
> > the message without putting it in the trash.
> 
> I remember Claris Emailer...
> Pressing the backspace key while holding down the option key not only
> put the message into the trash, but also immediately showed the next
> message in the same window without closing it.
> 
> That was _WAY_ more useful than either of current Mail.app behaviours.
> There the window closes, then the message is put in the trash (or, as
> you write, immediately deleted), and the selection moves to the next
> message, so you can press return which will open the next message in a
> new window.
> Time from pressing backspace to being able to read the next message: >3
> seconds.
> 
> Time for Claris Emailer: instantaneous, no window closing & reopening.
> I _still_ miss it.

So do I.  I was on the development team for versions 1.1 and later, by
the way.

One of the members of the team who retained the source code tried to
convert it to Carbon so it would run in OS X.  He never finished that
job.

I still have disk images of the installer.

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#28367

Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:
> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
> 
>> Deleting a message while holding down the option key once again removes
>> the message without putting it in the trash.
> 
> I remember Claris Emailer...
> Pressing the backspace key while holding down the option key not only
> put the message into the trash, but also immediately showed the next
> message in the same window without closing it.
> 
> That was _WAY_ more useful than either of current Mail.app behaviours.
> There the window closes, then the message is put in the trash (or, as
> you write, immediately deleted), and the selection moves to the next
> message, so you can press return which will open the next message in a
> new window.
> Time from pressing backspace to being able to read the next message: >3
> seconds.
> 
> Time for Claris Emailer: instantaneous, no window closing & reopening.
> I _still_ miss it.

What I continue to miss is ClarisWorks, which let ME configure all manner
of things Pages has eliminated or made stupid substitutes for.  


-- 
Erilar, biblioholic medievalist with iPad

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#28380

Okay, so one time? In band camp? Erilar <drache@chibardun.netinvalid> was all, like:
> Marc Stibane <spamfalle2@arcor.de> wrote:
>> Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Deleting a message while holding down the option key once again removes
>>> the message without putting it in the trash.
>> 
>> I remember Claris Emailer...
>> Pressing the backspace key while holding down the option key not only
>> put the message into the trash, but also immediately showed the next
>> message in the same window without closing it.
>> 
>> That was _WAY_ more useful than either of current Mail.app behaviours.
>> There the window closes, then the message is put in the trash (or, as
>> you write, immediately deleted), and the selection moves to the next
>> message, so you can press return which will open the next message in a
>> new window.
>> Time from pressing backspace to being able to read the next message: >3
>> seconds.
>> 
>> Time for Claris Emailer: instantaneous, no window closing & reopening.
>> I _still_ miss it.

> What I continue to miss is ClarisWorks, which let ME configure all manner
> of things Pages has eliminated or made stupid substitutes for.  

Hmm. I much prefer Pages to Appleworks. I miss the drawing part of
Appleworks because it was simple minded enough that I could actually use
it. Pages produces nicer looking documents with less effort for me.



-- 
http://2blog.kreme.com
Criticizing evolutionary theory because Darwin was limited is like
claiming computers don't work because Chuck Babbage didn't foresee Duke
Nukem 3.

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