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Another Safari puzzle

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  Another Safari puzzle Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-17 17:48 +0000
    Re: Another Safari puzzle Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> - 2014-03-17 14:05 -0400
      Re: Another Safari puzzle Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-17 21:35 +0000
        Re: Another Safari puzzle Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-17 22:27 +0000
        Re: Another Safari puzzle Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2014-03-26 16:03 +0100
          Re: Another Safari puzzle Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-26 16:20 +0000
    Re: Another Safari puzzle Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-17 18:15 +0000
      Re: Another Safari puzzle Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-03-17 16:31 -0400
        Re: Another Safari puzzle Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-03-17 22:26 +0000
    Re: Another Safari puzzle Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2014-03-17 23:39 -0700
      Re: Another Safari puzzle Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-03-18 13:34 +0000

#21587 — Another Safari puzzle

Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
Reloading and reloading doesn't help.

But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
defualts write and see if that makes a difference.

-- 
"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a
friend.... if you have one." - GB Shaw to Churchill "Cannot possibly
attend first night, will attend second...  if there is one." - Winston
Churchill, in response.

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#21588

In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
> 
> But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> defualts write and see if that makes a difference.

Open the Activity window, it should higlight which bits of the page it 
had trouble loading.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

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#21592

In article <barmar-E03E8C.14050417032014@news.eternal-september.org>,
Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:

> In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> > Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> > may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> > days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> > website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> > loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> > a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> > Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
> > 
> > But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> > loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> > and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> > loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> > defualts write and see if that makes a difference.
> 
> Open the Activity window, it should higlight which bits of the page it 
> had trouble loading.

This is the sort of thing I see in the Error Console:

[Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
408 (Request Time-out) (global.css, line 0)

[Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
408 (Request Time-out) (embed.js, line 0)

The servers referred to are such as news.bbcimg.co.uk, so perhaps the
DNS is not implicated. I tried the defaults write as listed in the
other thread to no avail (I restarted Safari after doing it).

-- 
"The idea that Bill Gates has appeared like a knight in shining armour to
 lead all customers out of a mire of technological chaos neatly ignores 
 the fact that it was he who, by peddling second-rate technology, led them
 into it in the first place."                             - Douglas Adams

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#21594

On 2014-03-17, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <barmar-E03E8C.14050417032014@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
>>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
>> > may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
>> > days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
>> > website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
>> > loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
>> > a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
>> > Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
>> > 
>> > But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
>> > loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
>> > and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
>> > loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
>> > defualts write and see if that makes a difference.
>> 
>> Open the Activity window, it should higlight which bits of the page it 
>> had trouble loading.
>
> This is the sort of thing I see in the Error Console:
>
> [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> 408 (Request Time-out) (global.css, line 0)
>
> [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> 408 (Request Time-out) (embed.js, line 0)
>
> The servers referred to are such as news.bbcimg.co.uk, so perhaps the
> DNS is not implicated. I tried the defaults write as listed in the
> other thread to no avail (I restarted Safari after doing it).

Could be a routing issue with your router, your ISP, or somewhere else
upstream from you as well. 

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#21670

On 2014-03-17, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> In article <barmar-E03E8C.14050417032014@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
>>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
>> 
>> > Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
>> > may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
>> > days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
>> > website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
>> > loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
>> > a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
>> > Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
>> > 
>> > But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
>> > loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
>> > and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
>> > loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
>> > defualts write and see if that makes a difference.
>> 
>> Open the Activity window, it should higlight which bits of the page it 
>> had trouble loading.
>
> This is the sort of thing I see in the Error Console:
>
> [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> 408 (Request Time-out) (global.css, line 0)
>
> [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> 408 (Request Time-out) (embed.js, line 0)
>
> The servers referred to are such as news.bbcimg.co.uk, so perhaps the
> DNS is not implicated. I tried the defaults write as listed in the
> other thread to no avail (I restarted Safari after doing it).

Did the new setting survive the restart?  Various apps rewrite the settings
on exit, so it's safer to exit, do the defaults write bit, then restart.

-- 
Paul Sture

"In that case," said Napoleon, "let us wait twenty minutes; when the enemy
is making a false movement we must take good care not to interrupt him."

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#21671

In article <lr6b0b-nq22.ln1@news.chingola.ch>, Paul Sture
<nospam@sture.ch> wrote:

> On 2014-03-17, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> > In article <barmar-E03E8C.14050417032014@news.eternal-september.org>,
> > Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
> >>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> >> 
> >> > Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> >> > may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> >> > days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> >> > website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> >> > loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> >> > a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> >> > Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
> >> > 
> >> > But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> >> > loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> >> > and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> >> > loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> >> > defualts write and see if that makes a difference.
> >> 
> >> Open the Activity window, it should higlight which bits of the page it 
> >> had trouble loading.
> >
> > This is the sort of thing I see in the Error Console:
> >
> > [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> > 408 (Request Time-out) (global.css, line 0)
> >
> > [Error] Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of
> > 408 (Request Time-out) (embed.js, line 0)
> >
> > The servers referred to are such as news.bbcimg.co.uk, so perhaps the
> > DNS is not implicated. I tried the defaults write as listed in the
> > other thread to no avail (I restarted Safari after doing it).
> 
> Did the new setting survive the restart?  Various apps rewrite the settings
> on exit, so it's safer to exit, do the defaults write bit, then restart.

Odd you should ask now, I was just foaming at the mouth about it. There
are other sites that become hard to reach such as dpreview.com.

I just did the defaults write again, the odd thing is it seems to
immediately improve matters, but with the space of a few clicks its
back to "normal". I tried FF to no improvement. Meanwhile, twitter is
unaffected.

It really is a pain in the bum.

-- 
"People don't buy Microsoft for quality, they buy it for compatibility
with what Bob in accounting bought last year. Trace it back - they buy
Microsoft because the IBM Selectric didn't suck much" - P Seebach, afc

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#21590

On 2014-03-17, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
>
> But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> defualts write and see if that makes a difference.

One possibility that comes to mind is that DNS resolution is failing
intermittently, which could cause a similar type of behavior. When web
pages fail in this way, it would be good to know whether DNS requests
are being handled correctly at that time. If you are using your ISPs DNS
servers, you might consider switching to OpenDNS, which is free and
typically much more reliable than ISP offerings:

<http://www.opendns.com>

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#21591

In article <boosd6Fi7e5U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> One possibility that comes to mind is that DNS resolution is failing
> intermittently, which could cause a similar type of behavior. When web
> pages fail in this way, it would be good to know whether DNS requests
> are being handled correctly at that time. If you are using your ISPs DNS
> servers, you might consider switching to OpenDNS, which is free and
> typically much more reliable than ISP offerings:
> 
> <http://www.opendns.com>

I don't have anything against openDNS (even hi-jacking the unknown 
results -- it's a free service after all) but they fail far more often 
than Google's DNS. I've got them as my secondary server. Of course, they 
don't fail as much as my ISP's DNS servers do.
-- 
Where's the Vangelis music?
Pris' tongue is sticking out in in the wide shot after Batty has kissed her.
They have put back more tits into the Zhora dressing  room scene.
  -- notes for Blade Runner

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#21593

On 2014-03-17, Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> wrote:
> In article <boosd6Fi7e5U1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> One possibility that comes to mind is that DNS resolution is failing
>> intermittently, which could cause a similar type of behavior. When web
>> pages fail in this way, it would be good to know whether DNS requests
>> are being handled correctly at that time. If you are using your ISPs DNS
>> servers, you might consider switching to OpenDNS, which is free and
>> typically much more reliable than ISP offerings:
>> 
>> <http://www.opendns.com>
>
> I don't have anything against openDNS (even hi-jacking the unknown 
> results -- it's a free service after all) but they fail far more often 
> than Google's DNS. I've got them as my secondary server. Of course, they 
> don't fail as much as my ISP's DNS servers do.

That's interesting. I haven't had name lookups through OpenDNS *ever*
fail that I can remember.

I dislike Google's practices with regard to data collection and so on;
so I won't be sending all of my DNS through them any time soon.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#21596

In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
 Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
> 
> But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> defualts write and see if that makes a difference.

Have you tried using traceroute to see what the path the network is 
using to get to that server?

When I use

 <http://network-tools.com/default.asp?prog=trace&host=news.bbc.co.uk>

the response is rather quick.  But if I do it from my own router, not so 
much

# traceroute news.bbc.co.uk
traceroute: Warning: news.bbc.co.uk has multiple addresses; using 
212.58.246.82
traceroute to newswww.bbc.net.uk (212.58.246.82), 64 hops max, 52 byte 
packets
 1  homeportal (192.168.1.254)  2.115 ms  1.153 ms  1.056 ms
 2  75-25-136-3.lightspeed.plalca.sbcglobal.net (75.25.136.3)  35.055 ms  
27.674 ms  23.083 ms
 3  * * *
 4  12.83.39.137 (12.83.39.137)  24.390 ms
    12.83.39.145 (12.83.39.145)  23.664 ms  26.142 ms
 5  gar23.sffca.ip.att.net (12.122.114.5)  27.101 ms  26.476 ms  24.942 
ms
 6  * * *
 7  vlan70.csw2.sanjose1.level3.net (4.69.152.126)  162.124 ms
    vlan60.csw1.sanjose1.level3.net (4.69.152.62)  161.699 ms
    vlan90.csw4.sanjose1.level3.net (4.69.152.254)  161.603 ms
 8  ae-81-81.ebr1.sanjose1.level3.net (4.69.153.9)  161.301 ms
    ae-91-91.ebr1.sanjose1.level3.net (4.69.153.13)  165.508 ms  162.159 
ms
 9  ae-2-2.ebr2.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.135.186)  162.592 ms  162.296 
ms  162.070 ms
10  ae-82-82.csw3.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.148.42)  165.355 ms
    ae-92-92.csw4.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.148.46)  161.606 ms
    ae-62-62.csw1.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.148.34)  161.711 ms
11  ae-71-71.ebr1.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.134.69)  161.680 ms  161.506 
ms
    ae-61-61.ebr1.newyork1.level3.net (4.69.134.65)  162.051 ms
12  ae-41-41.ebr2.london1.level3.net (4.69.137.65)  161.677 ms
    ae-42-42.ebr2.london1.level3.net (4.69.137.69)  162.000 ms
    ae-41-41.ebr2.london1.level3.net (4.69.137.65)  161.178 ms
13  ae-58-223.csw2.london1.level3.net (4.69.153.138)  163.113 ms  
162.217 ms
    ae-56-221.csw2.london1.level3.net (4.69.153.130)  162.645 ms
14  ae-229-3605.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.17)  161.685 ms
    ae-232-3608.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.29)  161.998 ms
    ae-230-3606.edge4.london1.level3.net (4.69.166.21)  161.844 ms
15  bbc-technol.edge4.london1.level3.net (212.113.14.222)  167.938 ms  
168.535 ms  167.796 ms
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk (132.185.254.93)  163.983 ms  164.008 ms  
164.201 ms
19  * * *
20  * * *
21  * * *
22  * * *
23  * * *
24  * * *
25  * * *

I suspect when you see network anomolies, you're only getting part of 
the page.  Some sites are optimized to return or display partial content 
while the rest is updating, although I don't know enough about web 
design to do that.

This is just a swag and I may have completely misunderstood what you're 
talking about.  Feel free to correct me.  

But I don't think this behavior is a bug. "Works as designed"

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#21597

In article <vilain-827EF9.23394517032014@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> In article <170320141748398394%timstreater@greenbee.net>,
>  Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:
> 
> > Just reading the "Safari puzzle" thread - I have something which may or
> > may not be similar. Sometimes (and this situation may last for a few
> > days and then go away for a few days) I have a problem reaching a
> > website - such as news.bbc.co.uk. The page just refuses to complete
> > loading, and will sometimes abort (X at the end of the address bar) and
> > a messed up page (as if, for example, some style sheets didn't load).
> > Reloading and reloading doesn't help.
> > 
> > But, I can then click on a link within the page, and the linked-to page
> > loads properly immediately (well, within the expected delay, anyway),
> > and then that page has a link back to the news page - which also then
> > loads properly very quickly. So it's another puzzle but I'll try the
> > defualts write and see if that makes a difference.
> 
> Have you tried using traceroute to see what the path the network is 
> using to get to that server?

traceroute and ping have no problems (e.g. to news.bbcimg.co.uk) but of
course that just tells that the host is up, not that its infrastructure
is working properly. I have a similar problem getting to
www.dpreview.com - but not to twitter.

-- 
"If you're not able to ask questions and deal with the answers without feeling 
that someone has called your intelligence or competence into question, don't 
ask questions on Usenet where the answers won't be carefully tailored to avoid
tripping your hair-trigger insecurities."                  - D M Procida, UCSM

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