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iTunes -- single library; multiple access?

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  iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-22 11:07 -0500
    Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-22 11:25 -0500
      Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-22 10:02 -0800
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-22 14:03 -0500
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-23 00:51 -0500
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 01:01 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-22 23:26 -0800
                Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 05:13 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-23 12:58 -0500
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-11-24 15:13 +1300
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-22 23:23 -0800
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 05:13 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-23 16:38 -0500
                Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 17:04 -0500
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> - 2013-11-23 10:22 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-23 17:43 +0000
                Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-23 11:42 -0800
                  Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-23 19:50 +0000
                Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-23 16:40 -0500
                  Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-23 22:48 +0000
                    Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-23 18:57 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-23 11:41 -0800
                Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 14:49 -0500
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-23 17:40 +0000
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? jamiekg@wizardling.geek.nz (Jamie Kahn Genet) - 2013-11-24 17:19 +1300
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-23 13:08 -0500
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-11-23 16:47 -0500
              Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-23 14:59 -0800
      Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-22 13:09 -0500
    Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-23 16:32 -0500
      Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> - 2013-11-23 17:09 -0500
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 17:12 -0500
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> - 2013-11-23 21:45 -0500
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-23 22:03 -0500
    Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-11-24 14:54 +0000
      Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-24 16:44 +0000
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> - 2013-11-24 10:03 -0800
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2013-11-24 18:22 +0000
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-24 13:53 -0500
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-11-24 22:23 +0000
            Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Wes Groleau <Groleau+news@FreeShell.org> - 2013-11-24 18:10 -0500
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-11-24 22:20 +0000
      Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-24 13:53 -0500
        Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? Sandman <mr@sandman.net> - 2013-11-24 22:18 +0000
          Re: iTunes -- single library; multiple access? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2013-11-24 17:27 -0500

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#19561

On 11/23/13 5:48 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
> On 2013-11-23, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>
> With Home Sharing, all playlists on the shared system are available to
> anyone who connects, automatically.
>

Also, I just discovered, when sharing a library over a network.  The 
playlists are identical and some odd things happen if you are accessing 
the same list from two locations.  HOWEVER, I was able to access 
different lists from different computers and that's all I need.  If I 
have to I can create two lists with the same rules and access one from 
each computer.

This, I believe, solves all the problems I could see.

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#19546

In article <fmoore-5DDBC8.10225723112013@mx05.eternal-september.org>,
 Fred Moore <fmoore@gcfn.org> wrote:

> In article <vilain-57A863.23233322112013@news.individual.net>,
>  Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> 
> > The OP was talking about simultaneous SHARED access.  AFAIK, you can't 
> > just move ~/Music to a network drive and have two accounts access it.  
> > They both need R/W access to the library file and this won't provide 
> > that.
> 
> Pardon my denseness, but won't home sharing work?
> 
> <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3819>

That was the OP's point. You couldn't just move the ~/Music folder to 
Shared. It wouldn't work because the file that keeps various bits of 
meta data isn't meant to be shared.  Hence, the discussion with nospam.  
The Music files themselves can be moved to Shared but not the Music 
Library File.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#19549

In article <vilain-F8FF96.11412323112013@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> > Pardon my denseness, but won't home sharing work?
> > 
> > <http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3819>
> 
> That was the OP's point. You couldn't just move the ~/Music folder to 
> Shared. It wouldn't work because the file that keeps various bits of 
> meta data isn't meant to be shared.  Hence, the discussion with nospam.  
> The Music files themselves can be moved to Shared but not the Music 
> Library File.

which is what i said. put the music on the server, not the library file.

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#19539

On 2013-11-23, Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
>
> What up with you today?  Did you take your bitch pills this morning or 
> go without coffee?  Usually you're a lot less of an asshole.

he's always been a complete asshole.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#19565

Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2013-11-23, Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> >
> > What up with you today?  Did you take your bitch pills this morning or
> > go without coffee?  Usually you're a lot less of an asshole.
> 
> he's always been a complete asshole.

Better to be a cranky old bastard IMO. That's always been my aspiration.
-- 
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

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#19542

On 11-23-2013, 02:23, Michael Vilain wrote:
> The OP was talking about simultaneous SHARED access.  AFAIK, you can't
> just move ~/Music to a network drive and have two accounts access it.
> They both need R/W access to the library file and this won't provide
> that.

You can have shared access for playback.  But one user account will own 
it and be the only one to make changes.

If you set permissions to allow sharing of control, and point both 
libraries to the same collection, it depends on the locking.

Since iTunes was AFAIK not intended for such a use, it's possible that 
there is no locking, which would allow a slim chance of a simultaneous 
edit to trash the whole thing.  I would not expect Apple to to have 
failed to consider this, but then I also wouldn't have expected an 
updater to use hard-coded paths for files.

If there is locking, is it on the whole library, or on a single piece of 
media?  For entire iTunes session or for the duration of the edit?

I would surely hope that it is only for the duration of the edit, if you 
want to shared editing rights.

But if you are changing anything that is within the library file (XML), 
than you must have either separate files (leading to variations that may 
be desirable or not) or you would have a common file that must be locked 
as a whole.

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#19555

On Nov/23/2013 2:2333 AM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> In article<221120131403383920%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
>   nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>  wrote:
>
>> In article<vilain-15FC2D.10025422112013@news.individual.net>, Michael
>> Vilain<vilain@NOspamcop.net>  wrote:
>>
>>>>> I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
>>>>> RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
>>>>> is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
>>>>> seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
>>>>
>>>> ...
>
> If you move the a music file from one drive to another, my version of
> iTunes 'forgets' where it's located.  If you rename a music file while
> on the same volume, it follows it.  But I had a bunch of music files
> become "unable to locate" when I moved them to another volume.
>


What do you mean by "move a music file"? Is that short for copying to 
another drive and then erasing the original?



...
>


-- 
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\f0\fs20 \cf0 -- \
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++\
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||\
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||\
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||\
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-po\uc0\u349 ta adreso por \u285 
usta adreso  || \
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++}

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#19560

In article <l6r7p7$ugn$1@news.albasani.net>,
 AV3 <arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On Nov/23/2013 2:2333 AM, Michael Vilain wrote:
> > In article<221120131403383920%nospam@nospam.invalid>,
> >   nospam<nospam@nospam.invalid>  wrote:
> >
> >> In article<vilain-15FC2D.10025422112013@news.individual.net>, Michael
> >> Vilain<vilain@NOspamcop.net>  wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
> >>>>> RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
> >>>>> is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
> >>>>> seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
> >>>>
> >>>> ...
> >
> > If you move the a music file from one drive to another, my version of
> > iTunes 'forgets' where it's located.  If you rename a music file while
> > on the same volume, it follows it.  But I had a bunch of music files
> > become "unable to locate" when I moved them to another volume.
> >
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "move a music file"? Is that short for copying to 
> another drive and then erasing the original?
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> >

yes.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#19508

In article <l6o0hi$rn1$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> > I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
> > RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
> > is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
> > seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
> 
> I forgot.  I want to use smart playlists in both locations.  Sharing 
> alone won't work.  I currently have my library attached to my mini. 
> When I have it running on the mini and try to open it directly from my 
> MacBook Pro it is locked, although I can access it using sharing.

putting an itunes library on a shared drive works fine. keep the itunes
library file local per machine (they won't be in sync) and the music
and videos on the server. itunes doesn't care where the media is, only
that it's where it thinks it is.

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#19552

Thanks all.  The solution isn't quite what I wanted but I can make it 
work.  I really wanted to maintain a single library because most of my 
smart playlists are based on play counts.  Nevertheless, I can work with 
this.  In fact, I can leave the music directory inside the current 
iTunes library and just point to it from another instance of iTunes.

Funny thing is I used to keep the library separate from iTunes but 
decided to put it where Apple wanted it to keep things simple!

As for getting to a network RAiD, I already use a Drobo S.  I am pretty 
sure I can just move the drives to a Drobo 5N and the system will 
recognize them, but of course, I will have to make sure first.  If that 
isn't possible, I can use SuperDuper! to make a copy.

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#19557

On 11/23/13 4:32 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> Thanks all.

Can I copy the existing iTunes library (not the music database) to the 
second machine to initialize it?  I can't see a problem with this but I 
could easily be missing something.

I suppose, if I add more music to the library I will have to add it to both!

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#19558

In article <l6r92o$2fe$1@dont-email.me>, Robert Peirce
<bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

> Can I copy the existing iTunes library (not the music database) to the 
> second machine to initialize it?  I can't see a problem with this but I 
> could easily be missing something.

that works.

> I suppose, if I add more music to the library I will have to add it to both!

they libraries are entirely separate.

if you want the same playlists and ratings on all systems, what you're
trying to do is the wrong approach.

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#19563

On Nov/23/2013 5:0928 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
> On 11/23/13 4:32 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
>> Thanks all.
>
> Can I copy the existing iTunes library (not the music database) to the
> second machine to initialize it?


What do you mean by "initialize it"? I suppose you mean the iTunes 
library file suffixed with .itl or .xml.

> I can't see a problem with this but I
> could easily be missing something.
>
> I suppose, if I add more music to the library I will have to add it to
> both!
>


I presume that only the library files residing at the old location in 
the iTunes folder along with the default iTunes Media folder is modified 
when you modify the iTunes Media folder contents. I don't understand how 
you can "initialize" a library file.


Of course, you could establish a different or a copied iTunes Media file 
as your new default file (after choosing the "Advanced" iTunes 
Preference menu), but it seems pointless to just copy only a library 
file to a different drive. You would have to keep it updated by copying 
the default-adjacent library file every time you change something in the 
default iTunes Media file.


-- 
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

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#19564

In article <52916866.6050307@earthlink.net>, AV3
<arvimide@earthlink.net> wrote:

> > Can I copy the existing iTunes library (not the music database) to the
> > second machine to initialize it?
> 
> What do you mean by "initialize it"? I suppose you mean the iTunes 
> library file suffixed with .itl or .xml.

not recreate all his playlists, etc.

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#19566

In article <l6nvg7$ooj$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:

>  I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
>  RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
>  is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
>  seem to be possible but I may be missing something.

You're not missing something, it's not possible. Two iTunes processes can't 
share the same library directly.

Only way is to make sure that iTunes A is shut down before you launch 
iTunes B, or use Home sharing on iTunes A (and forget about thr RAID) which 
means that the library can be accessed by iTunes B, but only edited and 
maintained by iTunes A.


--
Sandman[.net]

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#19568

On 2013-11-24, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <l6nvg7$ooj$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>
>>  I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
>>  RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
>>  is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
>>  seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
>
> You're not missing something, it's not possible. Two iTunes processes can't 
> share the same library directly.
>
> Only way is to make sure that iTunes A is shut down before you launch 
> iTunes B, or use Home sharing on iTunes A (and forget about thr RAID) which 
> means that the library can be accessed by iTunes B, but only edited and 
> maintained by iTunes A.

I'm not sure why you think the RAID can't be part of the solution. I
host my iTunes library with Home Sharing from a Drobo RAID, and it works
quite well.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#19570

In article <bfeoniFb4v5U1@mid.individual.net>,
 Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:

> On 2013-11-24, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
> > In article <l6nvg7$ooj$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce 
> > <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
> >
> >>  I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
> >>  RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
> >>  is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
> >>  seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
> >
> > You're not missing something, it's not possible. Two iTunes processes can't 
> > share the same library directly.
> >
> > Only way is to make sure that iTunes A is shut down before you launch 
> > iTunes B, or use Home sharing on iTunes A (and forget about thr RAID) which 
> > means that the library can be accessed by iTunes B, but only edited and 
> > maintained by iTunes A.
> 
> I'm not sure why you think the RAID can't be part of the solution. I
> host my iTunes library with Home Sharing from a Drobo RAID, and it works
> quite well.

How do you solve the simultaneous editing thing?  AFAIK, whomever 
modifies a music file (or any file that's on network drive) gets it 
first. Dropbox, at least, manages to fork the file so that there are two 
of them with different names.  But that's not UNIX's usual behavior in 
this case.

-- 
DeeDee, don't press that button!  DeeDee!  NO!  Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically ignored]

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#19571

On 2013-11-24, Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:
> In article <bfeoniFb4v5U1@mid.individual.net>,
>  Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-11-24, Sandman <mr@sandman.net> wrote:
>> > In article <l6nvg7$ooj$1@speranza.aioe.org>, Robert Peirce 
>> > <bob@peirce-family.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>  I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a networked
>> >>  RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two locations. The problem
>> >>  is accessing it from two locations at once.  On the surface this doesn't
>> >>  seem to be possible but I may be missing something.
>> >
>> > You're not missing something, it's not possible. Two iTunes processes can't 
>> > share the same library directly.
>> >
>> > Only way is to make sure that iTunes A is shut down before you launch 
>> > iTunes B, or use Home sharing on iTunes A (and forget about thr RAID) which 
>> > means that the library can be accessed by iTunes B, but only edited and 
>> > maintained by iTunes A.
>> 
>> I'm not sure why you think the RAID can't be part of the solution. I
>> host my iTunes library with Home Sharing from a Drobo RAID, and it works
>> quite well.
>
> How do you solve the simultaneous editing thing?  AFAIK, whomever 
> modifies a music file (or any file that's on network drive) gets it 
> first. Dropbox, at least, manages to fork the file so that there are two 
> of them with different names.  But that's not UNIX's usual behavior in 
> this case.

That problem is independent of the type of volume you choose for
storage. Also, Home Sharing doesn't allow editing of ID3 tags from
remote machines. So in that respect, it's a non-issue.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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#19574

In article <vilain-E9ACD7.10035324112013@news.individual.net>, Michael
Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> How do you solve the simultaneous editing thing?  AFAIK, whomever 
> modifies a music file (or any file that's on network drive) gets it 
> first. Dropbox, at least, manages to fork the file so that there are two 
> of them with different names.  But that's not UNIX's usual behavior in 
> this case.

the music files are not modified in normal use.

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#19579

In article <vilain-E9ACD7.10035324112013@news.individual.net>, Michael Vilain <vilain@NOspamcop.net> wrote:

> > >>  I am contemplating the idea of putting my iTunes library on a 
> > >>  networked RAID array so it can be easily accessed from two 
> > >>  locations. The problem is accessing it from two locations at once.  
> > >>  On the surface this doesn't seem to be possible but I may be 
> > >>  missing something.
> > >
> > > You're not missing something, it's not possible. Two iTunes processes 
> > > can't share the same library directly.
> > >
> > > Only way is to make sure that iTunes A is shut down before you launch 
> > > iTunes B, or use Home sharing on iTunes A (and forget about thr RAID) 
> > > which means that the library can be accessed by iTunes B, but only 
> > > edited and maintained by iTunes A.
> >
> > I'm not sure why you think the RAID can't be part of the solution. I 
> > host my iTunes library with Home Sharing from a Drobo RAID, and it 
> > works quite well.
>
>  How do you solve the simultaneous editing thing?

You don't, because you can't. :)

>  AFAIK, whomever modifies a music file (or any file that's on network 
>  drive) gets it first. Dropbox, at least, manages to fork the file so 
>  that there are two of them with different names.  But that's not UNIX's 
>  usual behavior in this case.

"UNIX" has nothing to do with it. The Library file will be locked and the 
other iTunes client can't open it, so it can't edit the files either way.

BUt that's not what was being discussed above. We talked about Home 
Sharing, a feature in iTunes where iTunes A shares the library on the 
network and iTUnes B can listen to, and copy files from, the library, but 
not edit it remotely.


--
Sandman[.net]

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