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Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix

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  Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-08 23:23 +0000
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-08 23:43 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:35 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:09 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:58 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 19:23 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:37 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 16:47 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:58 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 18:33 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 07:48 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:24 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 20:35 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:21 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 11:25 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 16:22 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 14:32 -0700
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 17:09 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 17:13 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 14:34 -0700
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 19:38 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:54 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 16:46 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple's OS IS in fact Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-09 00:56 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-09 01:06 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 19:28 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 08:25 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-09 14:40 +0200
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 09:09 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:00 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:11 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:36 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:17 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:13 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:38 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:12 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:09 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:45 -0700
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:10 -0700
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:02 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:11 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 14:32 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:13 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-09 19:14 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 12:48 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:14 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 01:36 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 21:40 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:34 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:24 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:16 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 21:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:32 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:10 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 19:06 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:38 -0400
                      A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:42 -0700
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:37 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:34 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 21:42 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:37 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:40 -0700
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:55 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:06 -0700
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 15:33 -0400
                                      Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:54 -0700
                                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:49 -0700
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:47 +0000
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:41 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:44 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:57 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:23 +0000
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:29 -0400
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:07 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 07:11 -0400
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 18:54 +0000
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:07 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:25 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:12 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:09 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:17 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:43 -0700
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:49 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:45 -0700
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:29 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:24 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:40 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:13 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:36 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-11 03:57 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-10 01:08 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 22:27 -0400
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:14 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 17:44 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:16 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-10 21:32 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 23:03 +0000
                Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-11 00:18 +0000
                  Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 00:41 +0000
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:38 -0700
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:13 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:34 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:12 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:27 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:10 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:37 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:06 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:40 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 23:12 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 19:26 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:12 +0000
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 20:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 04:58 +0000
                              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 03:02 -0400
                                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:32 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:59 -0700
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:21 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:50 -0700
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:56 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:35 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700

Page 2 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7  Next page →

#149413

On 2026-10-13 5:13 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
> On 10/13/2026 5:09 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2026-10-13 2:21 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
>>> On 10/12/2026 8:35 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>> On 2026-10-12 7:37 p.m., Joel W. Crump wrote:
>>>>> On 10/12/2026 7:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>>>> On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> APPLE is a COMPANY.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in 
>>>>>> selling hardware. To do that, they invest as much as they can into 
>>>>>> developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current 
>>>>>> and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the 
>>>>>> result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling 
>>>>>> hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most 
>>>>>> valuable companies on the planet. At no point did the customers or 
>>>>>> the administration of said company think about whether they are 
>>>>>> UNIX or not. Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing 
>>>>>> to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the 
>>>>>> hardware of any other company that got certification. While the 
>>>>>> UNIX name has value to obese, neck- bearded men of old age who 
>>>>>> fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the 
>>>>>> 1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about 
>>>>>> it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar 
>>>>>> experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without 
>>>>>> UNIX, so be it too.
>>>>>
>>>>> All that matters, now, though, is what they're willing to do to try 
>>>>> to expand their territory.  The Neo is one thing.  But to really 
>>>>> take on MS, they'll need to feed a diverse field of consumers.
>>>>
>>>> The only thing they don't cater to is gamers. There are projects 
>>>> making this a lot better like NotProton, and Crossover does a great 
>>>> job playing games as well. However, it's definitely not a direct 
>>>> approach and is likely to block those people, who are willing to 
>>>> spend way more, from buying a Mac.
>>>
>>> They'd need more of a native gaming subsystem, as well as supporting 
>>> Windows emulation, yeah.
>>
>> They already support Windows emulation through virtualization, 
>> Parallels and Crossover. What else do you need?
> 
> Mac would need to address it instead of emulating it.
Macs don't need to emulate Windows software internally because there is 
tons of software to do so from third-parties should the need arise. 
Apple only needed to emulate the existing library of Mac software, for 
the x86 platform, which they did admirably. Microsoft tried to do it as 
well as Apple did and failed miserably as they always do. That's why the 
transition from 68xxx to PowerPC went well (60-70% native speed under 
emulation), as did the transitions from PowerPC to Intel and then Intel 
to Apple silicon. Has it occurred to you that Apple has its own library 
and doesn't need Microsoft's software?

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

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#149395

On Oct 12, 2026 at 4:23 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2026-10-12 6:58 p.m., Alan wrote:
> > On 2026-10-11 14:35, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> > > On 08 Oct 2026 23:43:01 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 8, 2026 at 4:23:12 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
> > > > <11a98l0$a196$1@dont-email.me>:
> > > >
> > > > > Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
> > > > > Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
> > > > > <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened- with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given that a command line is kind of an integral part of the Unix
> > > > > experience, what does this mean for those who keep insisting that
> > > > > “Apple is Unix”?
> > > > >
> > > > > For added fun, I checked the Apple App Store listing for the app
> > > > > <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243>, and the
> > > > > description says:
> > > > >
> > > > >      A Linux-like shell on iOS. You can edit files with sed and cat,
> > > > >      move them around, and more!
> > > > >
> > > > > “Linux-like” ... not even a mention of Unix any more ...
> > > >
> > > > Apple is not UNIX, macOS is.
> > >
> > > But I thought we were told elsewhere that *all* of Apple’s OSes
> > > (macOS, Iphone-OS, Ipad-OS) are “UNIX”. Here you seem to be
> > > backpedalling on that ...
> > >
> > > Keep your story straight, much?
> >
> > APPLE is a COMPANY.
> 
> I'd like to add to that. Apple is a company that is interested in selling hardware. 

And services. And software. 

> To do that, they invest as much as they can into developing an experience that is pleasing and intuitive to current and potential customers. iOS, tvOS, watchOS and MacOS are the result of that, and they've done such a good job in selling hardware that the company is often at the peak of the most valuable companies on the planet. 

Fair

> At no point did the customers or the administration of said company think about whether they are UNIX or not. 

By and large, true. 

> Whether they are or aren't will do absolutely nothing to sell the hardware much like it has done nothing to sell the hardware of any other company that got certification. While the UNIX name has value to obese, neck-bearded men of old age who fondly remember using the operating system on mainframes in the 1960s, absolutely _no one_ today gives a piece of excrement about it today. If Apple uses it to produce a stable, stellar experience, so be it; if it had managed to do the same without UNIX, so be it too.

Exactly. 
> 
> -- 
> CrudeSausage
> MacBook Air M4
> iPhone 13
> Friendly Apple zealot
> 



-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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#149242

On 2026-10-08 16:23, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>.
> 
> Given that a command line is kind of an integral part of the Unix
> experience, what does this mean for those who keep insisting that
> “Apple is Unix”?
> 
> For added fun, I checked the Apple App Store listing for the app
> <https://apps.apple.com/us/app/ish-shell/id1436902243>, and the
> description says:
> 
>      A Linux-like shell on iOS. You can edit files with sed and cat,
>      move them around, and more!
> 
> “Linux-like” ... not even a mention of Unix any more ...

Straw man.

No one has ever claimed that "Apple is Unix".

The fact has been that macOS has been a certified Unix since the 
earliest days of  Mac OS X.

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#149245 — Re: Another Reason Why Apple's OS IS in fact Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix)

On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
wrote:

> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>

An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason? Really? What is the "first"
reason?  Because YOU say so? 

You are SO pathetic.   Keep on stomping your feet and screaming at the sky. 

There are multiple shells for iPhones and iPads in the store.  I use a-Shell.
 The fact that shells ARE available proves it IS Unix.  

Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS. Of course, MacOS comes with a
shell built in.  There are VERY few iPhone/iPad users who would need/want/use
such a thing.  But they ARE available.

Why?   Because Unix.

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#149247

On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>
> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?

The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.

And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
icing on top of the cake.

> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.

I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
from that, didn’t you?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149250

On 2026-10-08 18:06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened-with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>>
>> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?
> 
> The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.
> 
> And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
> platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
> icing on top of the cake.

Which is simply because these days far more people will have HEARD of Linux.

> 
>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
> 
> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
> from that, didn’t you?
Funnily, "The Open Group official register of UNIX Certified Products" 
disagrees:

Right there at the top:

'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers

Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers

<https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>

But we should believe you, right?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149253

On 2026-10-08 10:28 p.m., Alan wrote:
> On 2026-10-08 18:06, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>
>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 7:23:12 PM EDT, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" <ldo@nz.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Quite amusing to discover that an app for Iphone that offers a
>>>> Unix-style shell was threatened with removal by Apple
>>>> <https://www.notebookcheck.net/Unix-shell-app-for-iOS-threatened- 
>>>> with-removal-but-Apple-backtracks-on-decision.503414.0.html>
>>>
>>> An article from 6 YEARS ago is "another" reason?
>>
>> The app is still in the App Store, so the reason remains current, yes.
>>
>> And the fact that it mentions that it makes your precious Apple
>> platform “Linux-like“, rather than “Unix-like”, is like a delicious
>> icing on top of the cake.
> 
> Which is simply because these days far more people will have HEARD of 
> Linux.
> 
>>
>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>
>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran away
>> from that, didn’t you?
> Funnily, "The Open Group official register of UNIX Certified Products" 
> disagrees:
> 
> Right there at the top:
> 
> 'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers
> 
> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
> 
> <https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>
> 
> But we should believe you, right?

I hate to interrupt this bitchfest, but I clicked on the link and don't 
see Apple anywhere: <https://www.pasteboard.co/BVlIL2MN9fVU.png>

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149255

On 09/10/2026 14:25, CrudeSausage wrote:
> On 2026-10-08 10:28 p.m., Alan wrote:

[...]
>> Right there at the top:
>>
>> 'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac 
>> computers
>>
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>>
>> <https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>
>>
>> But we should believe you, right?
> 
> I hate to interrupt this bitchfest, but I clicked on the link and don't 
> see Apple anywhere: <https://www.pasteboard.co/BVlIL2MN9fVU.png>

Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.

Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers
Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers

-- 
Static tumblelog generator: https://github.com/john-bokma/tumblelog/
Available as Python or Perl. Example tumblelog: https://plurrrr.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149256

On 2026-10-09 8:40 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
> On 09/10/2026 14:25, CrudeSausage wrote:
>> On 2026-10-08 10:28 p.m., Alan wrote:
> 
> [...]
>>> Right there at the top:
>>>
>>> 'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac 
>>> computers
>>>
>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>>>
>>> <https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>
>>>
>>> But we should believe you, right?
>>
>> I hate to interrupt this bitchfest, but I clicked on the link and 
>> don't see Apple anywhere: <https://www.pasteboard.co/BVlIL2MN9fVU.png>
> 
> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
> 
> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers
> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers

Thank you. I guess that should put an end to the debate... but it won't, 
because the Android / Linux people are grasping at straws.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149257

CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
> On 2026-10-09 8:40 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
>> On 09/10/2026 14:25, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>> On 2026-10-08 10:28 p.m., Alan wrote:
>> 
>> [...]
>>>> Right there at the top:
>>>> 
>>>> 'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac 
>>>> computers
>>>> 
>>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>>>> 
>>>> <https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>
>>>> 
>>>> But we should believe you, right?
>>> 
>>> I hate to interrupt this bitchfest, but I clicked on the link and 
>>> don't see Apple anywhere: <https://www.pasteboard.co/BVlIL2MN9fVU.png>
>> 
>> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>> 
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
> 
> Thank you. I guess that should put an end to the debate... but it won't, 
> because the Android / Linux people are grasping at straws.

Exactly.   First he claimed that MacOS was not Unix.  Then he claimed it
was an “old version” of Unix and thus does not count.

I wonder what the next straw will be.  

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149259

On 2026-10-09 10:41 a.m., Nick Charles wrote:
> CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
>> On 2026-10-09 8:40 a.m., John Bokma wrote:
>>> On 09/10/2026 14:25, CrudeSausage wrote:
>>>> On 2026-10-08 10:28 p.m., Alan wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>>> Right there at the top:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac
>>>>> computers
>>>>>
>>>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/>
>>>>>
>>>>> But we should believe you, right?
>>>>
>>>> I hate to interrupt this bitchfest, but I clicked on the link and
>>>> don't see Apple anywhere: <https://www.pasteboard.co/BVlIL2MN9fVU.png>
>>>
>>> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>>>
>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac computers
>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>>
>> Thank you. I guess that should put an end to the debate... but it won't,
>> because the Android / Linux people are grasping at straws.
> 
> Exactly.   First he claimed that MacOS was not Unix.  Then he claimed it
> was an “old version” of Unix and thus does not count.
> 
> I wonder what the next straw will be.

It's sad. Even I, a user of Windows since 1991 and someone who has often 
been a proponent of Linux, have admitted that not only is MacOS UNIX, 
but that it wouldn't even matter whether it is or not because Apple 
provides a superior experience to all the competition. As I've said 
before, not one of the people present in an Apple Store would walk out 
if the employees hung a gigantic banner stating that MacOS is not UNIX. 
The customers care that the computer is reliable, allows them to do what 
they want to do and provides an intuitive experience. UNIX certification 
appeals to fat guys with neck beards and three-week-old Cheetos stains 
on their shirts, not people who would actually pay for Apple hardware. 
Those people would come up with a reason to reject Apple no matter what 
the company does.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149308

On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 14:41:24 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:

> First he claimed that MacOS was not Unix.

That should be “macOS”, shouldn’t it?

The fact that macOS, as shipped, is not actually compliant with
the “Unix” spec it is supposed to have passed, should be a clue.

And remember, you were claiming that it is not just macOS that is
“Unix”, but other derivatives of it, that have not actually passed the
certification, that can be called “Unix” as well. They can’t.

> Then he claimed it was an “old version” of Unix and thus does not
> count.

It certainly does cheapen the value of the “Unix” trademark, don’t you
think, when Apple can continue to use it just by achieving compliance
to an old, obsolete version of the spec.

Are Apple customers made aware of this little gotcha when they look at
Apple’s advertising? No, they are not.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149312

On 2026-10-10 13:21, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 14:41:24 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
> 
>> First he claimed that MacOS was not Unix.
> 
> That should be “macOS”, shouldn’t it?
> 
> The fact that macOS, as shipped, is not actually compliant with
> the “Unix” spec it is supposed to have passed, should be a clue.

In what way...in what particular..is it "not actually compliant"?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149367

On Oct 11, 2026 at 8:39 PM, Lawrence DFOliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 14:41:24 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
> 
> > First he claimed that MacOS was not Unix.
> 
> That should be “macOS”, shouldn’t it?

Pedantic "win" but you ignored the bigger point. As you do. 
> 
> The fact that macOS, as shipped, is not actually compliant with
> the “Unix” spec it is supposed to have passed, should be a clue.

Supposed to have passed? And where do you think it is not compliant? 

> And remember, you were claiming that it is not just macOS that is
> “Unix”, but other derivatives of it, that have not actually passed the
> certification, that can be called “Unix” as well. They can’t.

If Linux can be, so can other UNIX-like OSs. But I think you are the only one here caught up on this non-point. 

> > Then he claimed it was an “old version” of Unix and thus does not
> > count.
> 
> It certainly does cheapen the value of the “Unix” trademark, don’t you
> think, when Apple can continue to use it just by achieving compliance
> to an old, obsolete version of the spec.

I think you are the only one here who cares about the trademark. Most of us care about using our machines. 
> 
> Are Apple customers made aware of this little gotcha when they look at
> Apple’s advertising? No, they are not.

What "gotcha"? You did not build a case. You again just babbled. 




-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149306

On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 14:40:18 +0200, John Bokma wrote:

> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>
> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac
> computers
> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers

But ... that version of the “Unix” spec was last updated over 20 years
ago.

Where is Apple in the latest one?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149313

On 2026-10-10 13:17, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 14:40:18 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>>
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac
>> computers
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
> 
> But ... that version of the “Unix” spec was last updated over 20 years
> ago.
> 
> Where is Apple in the latest one?

Where is almost every one on that standard?

There is a SINGLE OS certified under "UNIX V7":

<https://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/register/brand3658.htm>

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#149318

On 2026-10-10 4:17 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 14:40:18 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
> 
>> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>>
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac
>> computers
>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
> 
> But ... that version of the “Unix” spec was last updated over 20 years
> ago.
> 
> Where is Apple in the latest one?

Goalpost move detected.

-- 
CrudeSausage
MacBook Air M4
iPhone 13
Friendly Apple zealot

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149332

On Oct 10, 2026 at 5:38:42 PM MST, "CrudeSausage" wrote
<6acada92$0$27$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>:

> On 2026-10-10 4:17 p.m., Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2026 14:40:18 +0200, John Bokma wrote:
>> 
>>> Filter By Standard and select UNIX 03.
>>> 
>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Apple silicon-based Mac
>>> computers
>>> Apple Inc.: macOS version 26.0 Tahoe on Intel-based Mac computers
>> 
>> But ... that version of the “Unix” spec was last updated over 20 years
>> ago.
>> 
>> Where is Apple in the latest one?
> 
> Goalpost move detected.

Lawrence:

    Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel...

Told repeatedly he is completely wrong....

    .... ignores it.

-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149343

On 11 Oct 2026 15:12:07 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:

> Lawrence:
> 
>     Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel...
> 
> Told repeatedly he is completely wrong....
> 
>     .... ignores it.

You are wrong.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149347

On Oct 11, 2026 at 2:29:00 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
<11agv2s$30k5e$6@dont-email.me>:

> On 11 Oct 2026 15:12:07 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> Lawrence:
>> 
>>     Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel...
>> 
>> Told repeatedly he is completely wrong....
>> 
>>     .... ignores it.
> 
> You are wrong.

You did say that. You were wrong. You tried to change topics.

Hey, we are all wrong from time to time. Not mocking you for that. But your
goal is clear when you just pick silly thing after silly thing to go after
Apple for and rarely if ever get to an actual point. And as you meander you
make absurd mistakes like that.

The GUI is NOT in the kernel. Not how UNIX works.

-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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