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Groups > comp.sys.mac.advocacy > #149240 > unrolled thread

Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix

Started byLawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid>
First post2026-10-08 23:23 +0000
Last post2026-10-10 18:35 -0700
Articles 11 on this page of 131 — 12 participants

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Contents

  Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-08 23:23 +0000
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-08 23:43 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:35 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:09 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:58 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 19:23 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:37 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 16:47 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 19:58 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 18:33 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 07:48 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:24 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 20:35 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 14:21 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 11:25 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 16:22 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 14:32 -0700
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 17:09 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-13 17:13 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-13 14:34 -0700
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-13 19:38 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:54 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 16:46 -0700
    Re: Another Reason Why Apple's OS IS in fact Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-09 00:56 +0000
      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-09 01:06 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-08 19:28 -0700
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 08:25 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix John Bokma <contact@johnbokma.com> - 2026-10-09 14:40 +0200
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 09:09 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:00 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:11 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:36 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:17 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 17:13 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:38 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:12 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:29 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:09 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 15:45 -0700
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:10 -0700
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <nunya@none.none> - 2026-10-09 14:41 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 11:02 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 09:11 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 14:32 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:13 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-09 19:14 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 12:48 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 17:14 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 01:36 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 21:40 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:34 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:24 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:16 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 21:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:32 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:10 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-09 19:06 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:38 -0400
                      A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:42 -0700
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:37 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:34 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 21:42 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:37 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:40 -0700
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:55 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:06 -0700
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 15:33 -0400
                                      Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:54 -0700
                                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:19 -0400
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:49 -0700
                                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:47 +0000
                        Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:41 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:44 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 16:57 -0400
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 04:23 +0000
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:29 -0400
                                Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:07 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 07:11 -0400
                                    Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-12 07:51 -0400
                                  Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-12 18:54 +0000
                              Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:07 -0700
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:25 -0400
                          Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:12 -0400
                            Re: A diversion into iOS vs Android (was Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:09 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:17 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 12:43 -0700
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-11 07:49 -0400
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-11 13:45 -0700
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 07:29 -0400
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:24 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:40 -0400
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> - 2026-10-09 18:36 -0400
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Chris Ahlstrom <OFeem1987@teleworm.us> - 2026-10-10 12:13 -0400
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-10 20:21 +0000
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-10 20:36 -0400
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-11 03:57 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-10 01:08 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-09 22:27 -0400
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:14 +0000
        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-09 17:44 +0000
          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 20:16 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-10 21:32 +0000
              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-10 23:03 +0000
                Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Nick Charles <none@none.none> - 2026-10-11 00:18 +0000
                  Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix (was: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 00:41 +0000
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:38 -0700
                    Re: THE Reason Why Apple MacOS IS Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:13 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:34 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 22:12 +0000
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> - 2026-10-11 21:27 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:10 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:37 -0700
                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 15:06 +0000
                  Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-10-11 21:40 +0000
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 23:12 +0000
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 19:26 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:12 +0000
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-11 20:23 -0400
                            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 04:58 +0000
                              Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 03:02 -0400
                                Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Brock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 00:32 -0700
                    Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 12:59 -0700
                      Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:21 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-12 13:50 -0700
                          Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix "Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com> - 2026-10-12 16:56 -0400
                        Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-10-13 00:35 +0000
            Re: Another Reason Why Apple Is Not Unix Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2026-10-10 18:35 -0700

Page 7 of 7 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]

#149352

FromBrock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 00:12 +0000
Message-ID<6acc25da$0$27$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
In reply to#149350
On Oct 11, 2026 at 4:26:07 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<11ah5uh$33isd$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 10/11/2026 7:12 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 2026 at 2:40:42 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>> <11agvoq$30k5e$10@dont-email.me>:
>>> On 11 Oct 2026 15:06:24 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>>> On Oct 10, 2026 at 4:03:18 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>> <11aeg7l$254m6$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>> On 10 Oct 2026 21:32:37 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>>>>> On Oct 10, 2026 at 1:16:46 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>>>> <11ae6fe$222p3$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>>>>>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>>>>>>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>>>>>>>> And?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
>>>>>>> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
>>>>>>> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WindowServer for macOS runs in userland.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  From <https://cleanmymac.com/blog/windowserver-mac-cpu-usage>:
>>>>> 
>>>>>      Think of [WindowServer] as macOS’s visual manager. It is not
>>>>>      malware, and you cannot remove it.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I wonder why you “cannot remove it”, if it is truly entirely separate
>>>>> from the OS kernel ...
>>>> 
>>>> That does not mean "Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS
>>>> kernel".
>>> 
>>> I think it does.
>> 
>> Your thoughts are wrong.
> 
> 
> It's obviously not the kind of component that actually keeps track of
> everything in the GUI display, but a mere display generator depending on
> lower-level functions for intelligent input to generate from.

He just makes things up... to troll.
> 
> 
>>> If it was truly separate from the kernel, it would be
>>> removable. It’s not removable, therefore it cannot be considered truly
>>> separate from the kernel. QED.
>> 
>> Where are you getting this? The UI does not run in kernel space.
> 
> 
> He's crazy, for all I can tell.

Insecure and he wants attention.
> 
> 
>>> Apple builds an
>>> emulation of the UNIX APIs as a separate layer on top of XNU. Compare
>>> this with Linux, which implements the UNIX APIs directly at its heart.
>> 
>> Where did you get this idea?
>> 
>> XNU is a hybrid kernel that implements UNIX/POSIX APIs directly via an
>> integrated BSD personality layer alongside Mach. Both macOS and Linux handle
>> UNIX-style system calls natively at the kernel level, though macOS carries
>> official UNIX certification while Linux is Unix-like.
>> 
>>> Which one is more worthy to be called “UNIX”, do you think?
>> 
>> Not that I care, but the one that *is* UNIX... macOS. Of course. But it makes
>> no difference to me.
> 
> Linux actually is truer to the original than macOS, but who cares?  It's
> a corporate trademark issue, not a tech issue.

Exactly. As I said I do not care what is a "UNIX". I do care what a system
does for me. And I like the Unix-like features... have said that since LONG
before macOS.

  <http://goo.gl/0wHM> Jul 18 1995 <3uh4b8$be3@news.nevada.edu>
    -----
    if DOS were a combo of UNIX and Mac it would be cool.  I
    just wish we had something that combined the two. In theory
    that is the way both UNIX and Mac are growing
    -----

  <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995 <3ujt0s$535@news.nevada.edu>
    -----
    But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
    would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
    between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
    around.
    -----

  <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995 <40d96e$7ke@news.nevada.edu>
    -----
    The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
    fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
    that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
    one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
    area.
    -----


-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149353

From"Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-11 20:23 -0400
Message-ID<11ah99i$34lo1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149352
On 10/11/2026 8:12 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:

>    <http://goo.gl/0wHM> Jul 18 1995 <3uh4b8$be3@news.nevada.edu>
>      -----
>      if DOS were a combo of UNIX and Mac it would be cool.  I
>      just wish we had something that combined the two. In theory
>      that is the way both UNIX and Mac are growing
>      -----
> 
>    <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995 <3ujt0s$535@news.nevada.edu>
>      -----
>      But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
>      would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
>      between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
>      around.
>      -----
> 
>    <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995 <40d96e$7ke@news.nevada.edu>
>      -----
>      The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
>      fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
>      that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
>      one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
>      area.
>      -----


Like in 2009 with Microsoft's "Windows 7 was my idea" ads, I think Apple 
literally could have gotten the idea from you.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149363

FromBrock McNuggets <brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 04:58 +0000
Message-ID<6acc68e0$0$19$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com>
In reply to#149353
On Oct 11, 2026 at 5:23:12 PM MST, ""Joel W. Crump"" wrote
<11ah99i$34lo1$1@dont-email.me>:

> On 10/11/2026 8:12 PM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>>    <http://goo.gl/0wHM> Jul 18 1995 <3uh4b8$be3@news.nevada.edu>
>>      -----
>>      if DOS were a combo of UNIX and Mac it would be cool.  I
>>      just wish we had something that combined the two. In theory
>>      that is the way both UNIX and Mac are growing
>>      -----
>> 
>>    <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995 <3ujt0s$535@news.nevada.edu>
>>      -----
>>      But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
>>      would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
>>      between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
>>      around.
>>      -----
>> 
>>    <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995 <40d96e$7ke@news.nevada.edu>
>>      -----
>>      The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
>>      fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
>>      that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
>>      one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
>>      area.
>>      -----
> 
> 
> Like in 2009 with Microsoft's "Windows 7 was my idea" ads, I think Apple
> literally could have gotten the idea from you.

Never thought of it that way, but I was calling for a good GUI on UNIX long
before desktop Linux and macOS existed.

On the other hand, I started with the Apple IIe. When I saw the Mac for the
first time -- the silly black and white 9 inch ones which even at the time was
not a great screen -- I knew I was looking a the future. In 1987 I started
teaching computer classes. All the other classes were on Windows / Word
Perfect 5.1 for DOS. I used Macs and this then little-known word processor: MS
Word. I did not know if Microsoft or Apple would be around in 10 years, but I
argued my students should learn THAT. Time proved me right.


-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149365

From"Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 03:02 -0400
Message-ID<11ai0mu$3bjlc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149363
On 10/12/2026 12:58 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:

>>>     <http://goo.gl/0wHM> Jul 18 1995 <3uh4b8$be3@news.nevada.edu>
>>>       -----
>>>       if DOS were a combo of UNIX and Mac it would be cool.  I
>>>       just wish we had something that combined the two. In theory
>>>       that is the way both UNIX and Mac are growing
>>>       -----
>>>
>>>     <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995 <3ujt0s$535@news.nevada.edu>
>>>       -----
>>>       But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
>>>       would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
>>>       between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
>>>       around.
>>>       -----
>>>
>>>     <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995 <40d96e$7ke@news.nevada.edu>
>>>       -----
>>>       The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
>>>       fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
>>>       that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
>>>       one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
>>>       area.
>>>       -----
>>
>> Like in 2009 with Microsoft's "Windows 7 was my idea" ads, I think Apple
>> literally could have gotten the idea from you.
> 
> Never thought of it that way, but I was calling for a good GUI on UNIX long
> before desktop Linux and macOS existed.
> 
> On the other hand, I started with the Apple IIe. When I saw the Mac for the
> first time -- the silly black and white 9 inch ones which even at the time was
> not a great screen -- I knew I was looking a the future. In 1987 I started
> teaching computer classes. All the other classes were on Windows / Word
> Perfect 5.1 for DOS. I used Macs and this then little-known word processor: MS
> Word. I did not know if Microsoft or Apple would be around in 10 years, but I
> argued my students should learn THAT. Time proved me right.


It illustrates Microsoft's keen interest in making Office a real thing 
for the Mac.  They were always cross-platform-ready, one might imagine 
Apple asking MS to support their meager OS with an Office edition, but I 
bet more so that MS themselves wanted the product to be out there, to 
show that their talents would never be bested just because another 
platform didn't indulge in what Winblows did (in other words, creating a 
rather terrific product, in native macOS code, there just aren't but so 
many of those to choose from ...).

-- 
Joel W. Crump

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#149366

FromBrock McNuggets <Brock.McNuggets@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 00:32 -0700
Message-ID<1791790365.88F59679@gmail.com>
In reply to#149365
On Oct 12, 2026 at 12:02 AM, Joel W. Crump wrote:
> On 10/12/2026 12:58 AM, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
> >>>     <http://goo.gl/0wHM> Jul 18 1995 <3uh4b8$be3@news.nevada.edu>
> >>>       -----
> >>>       if DOS were a combo of UNIX and Mac it would be cool.  I
> >>>       just wish we had something that combined the two. In theory
> >>>       that is the way both UNIX and Mac are growing
> >>>       -----
> >>>
> >>>     <http://goo.gl/EDip> Jul 19 1995 <3ujt0s$535@news.nevada.edu>
> >>>       -----
> >>>       But UNIX does have some advantages over the Mac... a CLI
> >>>       would be a great addition to the Mac.  I would say that
> >>>       between Mac and UNIX you have the best operating systems
> >>>       around.
> >>>       -----
> >>>
> >>>     <http://goo.gl/vrLf> Aug 10 1995 <40d96e$7ke@news.nevada.edu>
> >>>       -----
> >>>       The Mac is not the end all in computer technology.  Where it
> >>>       fails, UNIX excels. Between the two, there is almost no task
> >>>       that computers would be used for that can not be done.  And
> >>>       one or the other will beat the competition in almost every
> >>>       area.
> >>>       -----
> >>
> >> Like in 2009 with Microsoft's "Windows 7 was my idea" ads, I think Apple
> >> literally could have gotten the idea from you.
> > > Never thought of it that way, but I was calling for a good GUI on UNIX long
> > before desktop Linux and macOS existed.
> > > On the other hand, I started with the Apple IIe. When I saw the Mac for the
> > first time -- the silly black and white 9 inch ones which even at the time was
> > not a great screen -- I knew I was looking a the future. In 1987 I started
> > teaching computer classes. All the other classes were on Windows / Word
> > Perfect 5.1 for DOS. I used Macs and this then little-known word processor: MS
> > Word. I did not know if Microsoft or Apple would be around in 10 years, but I
> > argued my students should learn THAT. Time proved me right.
> 
> 
> It illustrates Microsoft's keen interest in making Office a real thing for the Mac. 

MS Word was on the Mac before it was on Windows... by about 4 years. But that was a long time ago. 

>  They were always cross-platform-ready, one might imagine Apple asking MS to support their meager OS with an Office edition, but I bet more so that MS themselves wanted the product to be out there, to show that their talents would never be bested just because another platform didn't indulge in what Winblows did (in other words, creating a rather terrific product, in native macOS code, there just aren't but so many of those to choose from ...).

MS Word was made for Mac way back in 1995 -- Jobs asked MS to help make apps for the Mac to help it become popular. 

> 
> -- Joel W. Crump
> 


-- 
It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.

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#149382

FromAlan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date2026-10-12 12:59 -0700
Message-ID<11aje7r$3ui5h$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149346
On 2026-10-11 14:40, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2026 15:06:24 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2026 at 4:03:18 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>> <11aeg7l$254m6$2@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On 10 Oct 2026 21:32:37 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Oct 10, 2026 at 1:16:46 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>> <11ae6fe$222p3$2@dont-email.me>:
>>>>
>>>>> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>>>>>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>>>>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>>>>>> And?
>>>>>
>>>>> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
>>>>> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
>>>>> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.
>>>>
>>>> WindowServer for macOS runs in userland.
>>>
>>>  From <https://cleanmymac.com/blog/windowserver-mac-cpu-usage>:
>>>
>>>      Think of [WindowServer] as macOS’s visual manager. It is not
>>>      malware, and you cannot remove it.
>>>
>>> I wonder why you “cannot remove it”, if it is truly entirely separate
>>> from the OS kernel ...
>>
>> That does not mean "Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS
>> kernel".
> 
> I think it does. If it was truly separate from the kernel, it would be
> removable. It’s not removable, therefore it cannot be considered truly
> separate from the kernel. QED.
> 
>>>> Springboard for iOS runs in userland.
>>>
>>>  From <https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/SpringBoard>:
>>>
>>>      Springboard, or Home Screen is the standard application that
>>>      manages the home screen of iOS and iPadOS devices. Other tasks
>>>      include starting WindowServer, launching and bootstrapping
>>>      applications and setting some of the device's settings on startup.
>>>
>>>      A derivative of SpringBoard called Launchpad was introduced in
>>>      Macs starting with Mac OS X Lion.
>>>
>>> So it sounds more like a service manager, not a display server.
>>
>> You are jumping away from your claim:
>>
>>      Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel...
> 
> Well, you were the one who mentioned Springboard, which turned out to
> have nothing to do with the GUI anyway. So are you the one now trying
> to distract from a vacuous argument?
> 
>>> What does “XNU” stand for, again?
>>
>> "XNU" stands for "X is Not Unix"—which is ironic considering macOS
>> is an officially certified UNIX 03 operating system, directly
>> refuting its own acronym.
> 
> Or maybe it isn’t. XNU is a microkernel, not a kernel. Apple builds an
> emulation of the UNIX APIs as a separate layer on top of XNU. Compare
> this with Linux, which implements the UNIX APIs directly at its heart.
> 
> Which one is more worthy to be called “UNIX”, do you think?

First off, XNU is NOT a microkernel. It is a HYBRID kernel.

But what in the world is it that you can get all bent out of shape by 
the fact that "XNU" stands for "X is not Unix" but don't realize that 
something called a "microkernel" is quite obviously part of a greater 
set called "kernels"?

And will you kindly point to anywhere that certifies Linux as Unix?

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#149384

From"Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 16:21 -0400
Message-ID<11ajfgn$3v24r$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149382
On 10/12/2026 3:59 PM, Alan wrote:

> And will you kindly point to anywhere that certifies Linux as Unix?


Who would want that?  It's not a real tech thing.  It's a trademark 
thing.  When it comes to running Unix software, Linux does just fine.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

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#149386

FromAlan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date2026-10-12 13:50 -0700
Message-ID<11ajh5u$3vor2$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149384
On 2026-10-12 13:21, Joel W. Crump wrote:
> On 10/12/2026 3:59 PM, Alan wrote:
> 
>> And will you kindly point to anywhere that certifies Linux as Unix?
> 
> 
> Who would want that?  It's not a real tech thing.  It's a trademark 
> thing.  When it comes to running Unix software, Linux does just fine.
> 

As does macOS.

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#149387

From"Joel W. Crump" <joelcrump@gmail.com>
Date2026-10-12 16:56 -0400
Message-ID<11ajhhn$3vshc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149386
On 10/12/2026 4:50 PM, Alan wrote:

>>> And will you kindly point to anywhere that certifies Linux as Unix?
>>
>> Who would want that?  It's not a real tech thing.  It's a trademark 
>> thing.  When it comes to running Unix software, Linux does just fine.
> 
> As does macOS.


Correct.

-- 
Joel W. Crump

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#149397

Fromrbowman <bowman@montana.com>
Date2026-10-13 00:35 +0000
Message-ID<nj5cmhFc9lcU8@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#149384
On Mon, 12 Oct 2026 16:21:42 -0400, Joel W. Crump wrote:

> On 10/12/2026 3:59 PM, Alan wrote:
> 
>> And will you kindly point to anywhere that certifies Linux as Unix?
> 
> 
> Who would want that?  It's not a real tech thing.  It's a trademark
> thing.
>  When it comes to running Unix software, Linux does just fine.

Most of the code I worked with was developed on AIX, which is V7 
certified. There were a few settings in the Makefiles, mostly for included 
libraries but the software ran fine on Linux. Obviously it had to be 
recompiled for x86 but the source didn't need modification.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#149323

FromAlan <nuh-uh@nope.com>
Date2026-10-10 18:35 -0700
Message-ID<11aep5p$2878j$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#149305
On 2026-10-10 13:16, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
> On 09 Oct 2026 17:44:06 GMT, Brock McNuggets wrote:
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2026 at 6:06:47 PM MST, "Lawrence D´Oliveiro" wrote
>> <11a9en6$bhbp$10@dont-email.me>:
>>
>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2026 00:56:45 +0000, Nick Charles wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, MacOS/iOS/iPadOS are all the same Unix OS.
>>>
>>> I pointed out elsewhere why they are not. But if course you ran
>>> away from that, didn’t you?
>>
>> They have the same kernel... just as different Linux systems do.
>> And?
> 
> And Apple builds the GUI directly into the OS kernel, which is why
> they are not the same kernel. Unlike Linux, where the GUI lives
> entirely in userland, not tied into the kernel.

No.

Apple doesn't build any part of the GUI "directly into the OS kernel".

Where did you get that absurd idea.

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