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Keyboard without number pad

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  Keyboard without number pad micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2013-02-14 00:20 -0500
    Re: Keyboard without number pad "Anthony R. Gold" <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> - 2013-02-14 11:09 +0000
      Re: Keyboard without number pad micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2013-02-16 01:37 -0500
    Re: Keyboard without number pad Paul <nospam@needed.com> - 2013-02-14 09:38 -0500
      Re: Keyboard without number pad micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2013-02-16 01:52 -0500
        Re: Keyboard without number pad Charlie Hoffpauir <invalid@invalid.com> - 2013-02-16 09:17 -0600
          Re: Keyboard without number pad micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2013-02-17 03:27 -0500
    Re: Keyboard without number pad Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> - 2013-02-15 09:40 +0200
      Re: Keyboard without number pad micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> - 2013-02-16 01:56 -0500
    Re: Keyboard without number pad Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> - 2013-03-25 05:37 +0000

#1777 — Keyboard without number pad

Does anyone know of a keyboard that is narrower because it doesn't
have the 17=iey number pad on the right, but which DOES have the
typical 13-key center section** 

**(with the four arrows, insert, delete, home, end, page up and down,
PrntScrn,Scroll lock, and pause. I use all of those keys except pause
and I don't want to have to hunt for them. .) 

The mini keyboards I've found for sale make other keys in the QWERTY
section do double duty, and I can deal with that occasionally, but for
day-to-day use, it confuses me.   Yet the true full size keyboard is
much wider than my "new" laptop, and won't go in the laptop shoulder
bag, and I only use the "number pad" once every six months or so. 

For trips, i've been having to pack the keyboard with my clothes, but
for 8 hoursout of the house, I don't pack clothes or use a suitcase. 

If no one sells such a keyboard, what do you think about cutting off
the right-most 3.5 inches of a standard keyboard.   Maybe closing the
open case with a nice little piece of mahogany,ebony, or birch wood.
I would use my 50 years of electronics semi-knowledge to first cut the
cricuit board off in a way intended not to disable the remaining keys.
I'd use a $4 keyboard so if it didn't work the first time, I could try
again.   Does it sound difficult to get right?

Thanks. 

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#1778

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:20:44 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of a keyboard that is narrower because it doesn't
> have the 17=iey number pad on the right, but which DOES have the
> typical 13-key center section** 
>
> **(with the four arrows, insert, delete, home, end, page up and down,
> PrntScrn,Scroll lock, and pause. I use all of those keys except pause
> and I don't want to have to hunt for them. .) 
>
> The mini keyboards I've found for sale make other keys in the QWERTY
> section do double duty, and I can deal with that occasionally, but for
> day-to-day use, it confuses me.   Yet the true full size keyboard is
> much wider than my "new" laptop, and won't go in the laptop shoulder
> bag, and I only use the "number pad" once every six months or so. 
>
> For trips, i've been having to pack the keyboard with my clothes, but
> for 8 hoursout of the house, I don't pack clothes or use a suitcase. 
>
> If no one sells such a keyboard, what do you think about cutting off
> the right-most 3.5 inches of a standard keyboard.   Maybe closing the
> open case with a nice little piece of mahogany,ebony, or birch wood.
> I would use my 50 years of electronics semi-knowledge to first cut the
> cricuit board off in a way intended not to disable the remaining keys.
> I'd use a $4 keyboard so if it didn't work the first time, I could try
> again.   Does it sound difficult to get right?
>
> Thanks. 

Will this 14" one fit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/280850631561

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#1782

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:09:19 +0000, "Anthony R. Gold"
<not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:20:44 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> Does anyone know of a keyboard that is narrower because it doesn't
>> have the 17=iey number pad on the right, but which DOES have the
>> typical 13-key center section** 
>>
>> **(with the four arrows, insert, delete, home, end, page up and down,
>> PrntScrn,Scroll lock, and pause. I use all of those keys except pause
>> and I don't want to have to hunt for them. .) 
>>
>> The mini keyboards I've found for sale make other keys in the QWERTY
>> section do double duty, and I can deal with that occasionally, but for
>> day-to-day use, it confuses me.   Yet the true full size keyboard is
>> much wider than my "new" laptop, and won't go in the laptop shoulder
>> bag, and I only use the "number pad" once every six months or so. 
>>
>> For trips, i've been having to pack the keyboard with my clothes, but
>> for 8 hoursout of the house, I don't pack clothes or use a suitcase.
>>.....
>> Thanks. 
>
>Will this 14" one fit? http://www.ebay.com/itm/280850631561

Wow, just like most of my keyboards but without the number section on
the right.  That's exactly what I want.  Thanks.   

(Except that it's $75!  I guess that's because it's a gaming keyboard.
(Faster key action?)   As time goes on, I'll know if it is worth that
much money to me. 

Stiill, this probably means the end of my plan for me and you and the
other three of you who replied to get rich by making the first one of
these.  Sorry.  

Though I'm still looking for investors in my macrofiche project. 

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#1780

micky wrote:


<<snip>>
> 
> If no one sells such a keyboard, what do you think about cutting off
> the right-most 3.5 inches of a standard keyboard.   Maybe closing the
> open case with a nice little piece of mahogany,ebony, or birch wood.
> I would use my 50 years of electronics semi-knowledge to first cut the
> cricuit board off in a way intended not to disable the remaining keys.
> I'd use a $4 keyboard so if it didn't work the first time, I could try
> again.   Does it sound difficult to get right?
> 
> Thanks. 

It's hard to make a clean cut (partitioning) of a keyboard, due to the
random way the scan matrix is set up. The keys that share a "wire"
within a keyboard, can stretch from the keypad to the querty section.
Cutting a conductor on the keypad area, could cause other apparently
random keys to stop functioning. So sawing or Dremel is not
recommended.

Only if the keyboard was made with switches (not membrane), and the
keypad section had "perforations" in the PCB, would it imply the
keypad section is expendable. Sometimes, they make two products
from the same PCB, by breaking off the part they don't want.
The engineer, sets up the scan matrix, so it "saws off easily".
And I really don't expect this to happen. I've looked at a few
scan matrices, and they really look random to me, with keys
having no apparent relationship, sharing wires.

You can build a keyboard. I've done it, years ago. I wouldn't
say it was exactly "fun" as such. It was one of the largest
PCBs I ever made on the kitchen table. I got my parts for it,
from these people. They also sell pre-made keyboards (fortunately).

http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c271/P261.pdf

The first item on that page, is rather old. And it leads
me to this page. This suggests to me, you'd look to a
country where "space is a problem", to find products that
are smaller than average, and have things like the keypad removed.
Apparently, this is similar to a laptop keyboard, with the
little mouse button nestled within the keyboards.

http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/index.html

http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/image/minikey09.jpg

That keyboard is also relatively "tall". They don't have a decent
picture, so you'll have to zoom in.

http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/image/3r_top.jpg

    Paul

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#1783

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 09:38:59 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.com> wrote:

>micky wrote:
>
>
><<snip>>
>> 
>> If no one sells such a keyboard, what do you think about cutting off
>> the right-most 3.5 inches of a standard keyboard.   Maybe closing the
>> open case with a nice little piece of mahogany,ebony, or birch wood.
>> I would use my 50 years of electronics semi-knowledge to first cut the
>> cricuit board off in a way intended not to disable the remaining keys.
>> I'd use a $4 keyboard so if it didn't work the first time, I could try
>> again.   Does it sound difficult to get right?
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>
>It's hard to make a clean cut (partitioning) of a keyboard, due to the
>random way the scan matrix is set up. The keys that share a "wire"
>within a keyboard, can stretch from the keypad to the querty section.
>Cutting a conductor on the keypad area, could cause other apparently
>random keys to stop functioning.

I see what you mean. 

> So sawing or Dremel is not recommended.

Maybe just for the case.   I like the idea of having the only mahogany
keyboard. (If someone already has one, I'll switch to walnut or
ebony.) 

>Only if the keyboard was made with switches (not membrane), and the
>keypad section had "perforations" in the PCB, would it imply the
>keypad section is expendable. Sometimes, they make two products
>from the same PCB, by breaking off the part they don't want.
>The engineer, sets up the scan matrix, so it "saws off easily".
>And I really don't expect this to happen. I've looked at a few
>scan matrices, and they really look random to me, with keys
>having no apparent relationship, sharing wires.

Not encouraging.  Maybe I can find one like Grinder mentioned, with a
bendable circuit "board". 
>
>You can build a keyboard. I've done it, years ago. I wouldn't
>say it was exactly "fun" as such. 

If I were 30 years younger  (36), I'd put this on my list of things to
do.   I wouldn't actually do it, but at least it would be on the list.
(along with writing a book, promoting macrofiche, and hitchhiking from
Morocco to Timbuktu, and from there to Togo.) 

>It was one of the largest
>PCBs I ever made on the kitchen table. I got my parts for it,
>from these people. They also sell pre-made keyboards (fortunately).
>
>http://www.jameco.com/Jameco/catalogs/c271/P261.pdf

Thanks. 
>
>The first item on that page, is rather old. And it leads
>me to this page. This suggests to me, you'd look to a
>country where "space is a problem", to find products that

Do you mean like Andora,  Monaco, and LIcthenstein?  If I could
convnce the IRS it was a business trip to find the right keyboard for
work, it might be deductible. 

>are smaller than average, and have things like the keypad removed.
>Apparently, this is similar to a laptop keyboard, with the
>little mouse button nestled within the keyboards.
>
>http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/index.html
>
>http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/image/minikey09.jpg

I had an IBM Thinkpad with a mouse button like this.  But I just
connected a USB mouse to that too. 

>That keyboard is also relatively "tall". They don't have a decent
>picture, so you'll have to zoom in.
>
>http://www.plathome.co.jp/products/mini_key/3r/image/3r_top.jpg
>
>    Paul

Thanks a lot, and thanks to everyone. 

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#1785

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:52:02 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

<snip>
>I see what you mean. 
>
>> So sawing or Dremel is not recommended.
>
>Maybe just for the case.   I like the idea of having the only mahogany
>keyboard. (If someone already has one, I'll switch to walnut or
>ebony.) 
>
>
I'd recommend sticking with mahogany. I built a walnut case for a
SWTPC keyboard to be used with a SWTPC 6800 kit I put together back in
the day and besides being very difficult to work with, it made for a
very heavy keyboard. It was very beautiful, tho.

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#1787

On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 09:17:46 -0600, Charlie Hoffpauir
<invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:52:02 -0500, micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
><snip>
>>I see what you mean. 
>>
>>> So sawing or Dremel is not recommended.
>>
>>Maybe just for the case.   I like the idea of having the only mahogany
>>keyboard. (If someone already has one, I'll switch to walnut or
>>ebony.) 
>>
>>
>I'd recommend sticking with mahogany. I built a walnut case for a
>SWTPC keyboard to be used with a SWTPC 6800 kit I put together back in
>the day and besides being very difficult to work with, it made for a
>very heavy keyboard. It was very beautiful, tho.

Didn't Albert Shweitzer have a mahogany keyboard on his computer?

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#1781

micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:

> Does anyone know of a keyboard that is narrower because it doesn't
> have the 17=iey number pad on the right, but which DOES have the
> typical 13-key center section** 

Microsoft's Arc keyboard is a little like that. Cursor keys are in a
4-directional pad and the other keys are on the top row. Doesn't seem to
have scroll lock and maybe not great for putting in a bag due to the
shape.

Lenovo also makes Thinkpad keyboards that have a laptop like layout.
Arrow keys in the bottom right, the other keys on the top right. Then
again, you have a laptop so maybe this isn't what you're looking for? I
have to admit I'm not sure I understand what it is you are looking for
in an external keyboard. Seems easiest to me to just not bring one with
a laptop...

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#1784

On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:40:54 +0200, Anssi Saari <as@sci.fi> wrote:

>micky <NONONOmisc07@bigfoot.com> writes:
>
>> Does anyone know of a keyboard that is narrower because it doesn't
>> have the 17=iey number pad on the right, but which DOES have the
>> typical 13-key center section** 
>
>Microsoft's Arc keyboard is a little like that. Cursor keys are in a
>4-directional pad 

This might not be so bad.   It might be good, in fact. 

>and the other keys are on the top row.

But this would r equire learning something new.  ;-( 

> Doesn't seem to
>have scroll lock

I think I never use scroll lock, except when I press it accidentally
and have to press it again.   So that would be okay. 

> and maybe not great for putting in a bag due to the
>shape.
>
>Lenovo also makes Thinkpad keyboards that have a laptop like layout.
>Arrow keys in the bottom right, the other keys on the top right. Then
>again, you have a laptop so maybe this isn't what you're looking for? I

Right!

>have to admit I'm not sure I understand what it is you are looking for
>in an external keyboard. Seems easiest to me to just not bring one with
>a laptop...

It depends on how much I plan to do, and how hard it is to carry.  If
I have my car, it's no trouble to throw the keyboard in too.    If I'm
on foot, and need mostly to click and not to type, I'd leave it at
home.   If I go away for a week, I'll definitely take the keyboard,
even if I have to take a full-size one.    I have a USB mouse too, and
use it even more often.  

(Two summers ago, my brother rented a vacation house for a week in
eastern Tennessee.   Too much climbing mountains I guess and I blew my
head gasket on the way home.  Had to spend 4-6 days in Asheville NC
shopping for a car.  If I hadn't had a netbook, a separate keyboard,
and a cell phone,  (and a rental car) , I would have had to buy them
to find a car like I wanted.  

Thanks for the suggestions. 

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#1887

On 14 Feb 2013, micky wrote:

> If no one sells such a keyboard, what do you think about
> cutting off the right-most 3.5 inches of a standard
> keyboard.   Maybe closing the open case with a nice little
> piece of mahogany,ebony, or birch wood. I would use my 50
> years of electronics semi-knowledge to first cut the 
> cricuit board off in a way intended not to disable the
> remaining keys. I'd use a $4 keyboard so if it didn't work
> the first time, I could try again.   Does it sound
> difficult to get right?

I saw this on HackaDay yesterday:
http://hackaday.com/2013/03/23/hacking-the-right-side-of-a-
keyboard-completely-off/

Unless that was you?

-- 
__          __
#_ < |\| |< _#

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