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I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies

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  I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-24 11:05 -0500
    Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies Charlie Hoffpauir <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-04-24 15:19 -0500
      Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-24 16:00 -0500
        Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-24 17:04 -0500
        Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies Charlie Hoffpauir <invalid@invalid.com> - 2012-04-24 18:19 -0500
          Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-25 18:48 -0500
            Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies Bob_Villa <pheeh.zero@gmail.com> - 2012-04-25 19:15 -0700
              Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-26 11:45 -0500
                Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "RnR" <rnrtexas@gmail.com> - 2012-04-28 01:57 -0500
                  Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-28 12:19 -0500
              Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "RnR" <rnrtexas@gmail.com> - 2012-04-28 01:47 -0500
    Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2012-04-24 15:45 -0500
      Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-24 16:23 -0500
        Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "SC Tom" <sc@tom.net> - 2012-04-24 19:51 -0400
          Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2012-04-26 11:39 -0500
    Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies "RJK" <nosuch@hotmail.com> - 2012-05-16 23:02 +0100
      Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2012-05-16 20:03 -0700
      Re: I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies Roland Mösl <founder@pge.org> - 2012-05-17 08:34 +0200

#1360 — I'm losing faith in uninterruptible power supplies

I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the beginning
(even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power lots of other
things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem, alarm clock, etc. All
great of course. And I have gone through a number of UPS over the years.
Generally the battery fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries
generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for
shipping. And if you wait for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about
the same price as getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a
new one.

Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do then
to fiddle with this thing all day.

I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this one
on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks. Sure I
could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one again?

Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a big
fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As the
heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery even
far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just using it
when you really need portable power.

This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway batteries
for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries for five
Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three different battery
types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And only like three of them
have less than 95% of their rated capacity. Plus chemically, they will
become paperweights in about 10 years anyway no matter how well you take
care of them.

So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if one
wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all out
before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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#1361

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:05:25 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the beginning
>(even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power lots of other
>things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem, alarm clock, etc. All
>great of course. And I have gone through a number of UPS over the years.
>Generally the battery fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries
>generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for
>shipping. And if you wait for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about
>the same price as getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a
>new one.
>
>Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
>disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
>halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
>some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
>half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do then
>to fiddle with this thing all day.
>
>I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this one
>on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks. Sure I
>could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one again?
>
>Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a big
>fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As the
>heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery even
>far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just using it
>when you really need portable power.
>
>This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
>have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway batteries
>for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries for five
>Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three different battery
>types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And only like three of them
>have less than 95% of their rated capacity. Plus chemically, they will
>become paperweights in about 10 years anyway no matter how well you take
>care of them.
>
>So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if one
>wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all out
>before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.

Do you happen to know how to determine "which" of the terminals should
be used for charging a Li-ion battery? I have a couple of good
batteries that I used with my Thinkpad T42 until it died (multiple
causes, finally just too much trouble to bother with). I didn't go
back to another Thinkpad, and even if I did the battery probably
wouldn't have been the same, so like you, I'm wondering if I can adapt
them somehow as a power supply / UPS for my new Samsung notebook. BTW,
there are 5 connectors on the battery, so there's probably some kind
of logic built in the insure it's a real IBM battery connected before
the charging will start.

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#1363

In news:tg0ep71nrp126982hfol9asom5bde898nd@4ax.com,
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:05:25 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power
>> lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem,
>> alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone through a
>> number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery fails after 3 to
>> 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range
>> and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if you wait for a sale
>> on UPS, you could get one for about the same price as getting a new
>> battery for an old one. So just get a new one.
>>
>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
>> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
>> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
>> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
>> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do
>> then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>
>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>> again?
>>
>> Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a
>> big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As
>> the heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery
>> even far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just
>> using it when you really need portable power.
>>
>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
>> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>
>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>
> Do you happen to know how to determine "which" of the terminals should
> be used for charging a Li-ion battery? I have a couple of good
> batteries that I used with my Thinkpad T42 until it died (multiple
> causes, finally just too much trouble to bother with). I didn't go
> back to another Thinkpad, and even if I did the battery probably
> wouldn't have been the same, so like you, I'm wondering if I can adapt
> them somehow as a power supply / UPS for my new Samsung notebook. BTW,
> there are 5 connectors on the battery, so there's probably some kind
> of logic built in the insure it's a real IBM battery connected before
> the charging will start.

Well for starters you know that incorrect charging of Li-Ion batteries 
are very dangerous right? And without safe guards in place, they can 
burst into flames (flames that are almost impossible to put out without 
a special chemical extinguisher and even then maybe not). But knowing 
this and if you want to continue, I will.

With a voltmeter you should find two pins that reads the battery voltage 
(usually it is the two furthest pins, but not always). Sometimes this 
doesn't work, but if it does you are in luck. Now you have something to 
work with. Otherwise it can get very complicated.

I don't know, for most people it would be better to sell them as is and 
not mess with them. And if it has been over three years since the last 
time they were charged, they probably are not worth anything anyway. As 
once Li-Ion drops below 2.8v per cell I think it is, it is so very 
dangerous to even try to change them. As they can react very violently.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3 

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#1365

In news:jn74nk$9u2$1@dont-email.me,
BillW50 wrote:

> ... so very dangerous to even try to _change_ them. As they can react 
> very violently.

change = charge

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3 

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#1366

On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:00:20 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>In news:tg0ep71nrp126982hfol9asom5bde898nd@4ax.com,
>Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:05:25 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power
>>> lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem,
>>> alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone through a
>>> number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery fails after 3 to
>>> 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range
>>> and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if you wait for a sale
>>> on UPS, you could get one for about the same price as getting a new
>>> battery for an old one. So just get a new one.
>>>
>>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
>>> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
>>> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
>>> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
>>> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do
>>> then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>>
>>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>>> again?
>>>
>>> Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a
>>> big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As
>>> the heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery
>>> even far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just
>>> using it when you really need portable power.
>>>
>>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
>>> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>>
>>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>>
>> Do you happen to know how to determine "which" of the terminals should
>> be used for charging a Li-ion battery? I have a couple of good
>> batteries that I used with my Thinkpad T42 until it died (multiple
>> causes, finally just too much trouble to bother with). I didn't go
>> back to another Thinkpad, and even if I did the battery probably
>> wouldn't have been the same, so like you, I'm wondering if I can adapt
>> them somehow as a power supply / UPS for my new Samsung notebook. BTW,
>> there are 5 connectors on the battery, so there's probably some kind
>> of logic built in the insure it's a real IBM battery connected before
>> the charging will start.
>
>Well for starters you know that incorrect charging of Li-Ion batteries 
>are very dangerous right? And without safe guards in place, they can 
>burst into flames (flames that are almost impossible to put out without 
>a special chemical extinguisher and even then maybe not). But knowing 
>this and if you want to continue, I will.
>
>With a voltmeter you should find two pins that reads the battery voltage 
>(usually it is the two furthest pins, but not always). Sometimes this 
>doesn't work, but if it does you are in luck. Now you have something to 
>work with. Otherwise it can get very complicated.
>
>I don't know, for most people it would be better to sell them as is and 
>not mess with them. And if it has been over three years since the last 
>time they were charged, they probably are not worth anything anyway. As 
>once Li-Ion drops below 2.8v per cell I think it is, it is so very 
>dangerous to even try to change them. As they can react very violently.

Thanks for the information, Bill.

As it turns out, I managed to find an IBM document that gives the
Voltages to check to see if the battery is OK: Terminal 1 less than
11.0 vs ground (terminal 5) and the battery is bad. Mine tests at the
max 12.6v, so the battery is OK and the charger works!

So recharging isn't a problem, since the charging mechanism is OK...
now I just need to find out if the Samsung will work OK on 11-12.6 on
the input. Then I'd just use the IBM battery as an external power
supply (providing I can cludge up proper connectors). BTW, I didn't
mention, but the Samsung is one of those Series 7 models with a
"non-removable" internal battery. After reading the documentation over
more carefully, it looks like the Samsung will charge to 80 %, then
run off the battery until charge drops to (not sure, but think 40%),
then charge to 80 % again if connected to the charger. Apparently it
runs off the external supply without recharging the battery between
the 80% and about 40% levels.... of course, the battery isn't
discharging, so it basically runs off external power only. The Samsung
external power supply/charger doesn't state what the output voltage
is, but under no load, measures 19v DC. The IBM external brick
measures only 16.5 no load.... so I'm not sure that the 12.6 output by
the IBM battery would be enough to charge the Samsung.

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#1369

In news:d3cep7pogknnsj8cnc30adbk1o5qitr6nt@4ax.com,
Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 16:00:20 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> In news:tg0ep71nrp126982hfol9asom5bde898nd@4ax.com,
>> Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Apr 2012 11:05:25 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>>>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can
>>>> power lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL
>>>> modem, alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone
>>>> through a number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery
>>>> fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the
>>>> 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if
>>>> you wait for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about the same
>>>> price as getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a new
>>>> one.
>>>>
>>>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried
>>>> to disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the
>>>> two halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one
>>>> half and some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to
>>>> stay in one half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better
>>>> things to do then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>>>
>>>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>>>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>>>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>>>> again?
>>>>
>>>> Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a
>>>> big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries).
>>>> As the heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the
>>>> battery even far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer
>>>> and just using it when you really need portable power.
>>>>
>>>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I
>>>> now have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>>>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>>>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>>>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>>>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>>>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>>>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>>>
>>>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>>>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>>>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>>>
>>> Do you happen to know how to determine "which" of the terminals
>>> should be used for charging a Li-ion battery? I have a couple of
>>> good batteries that I used with my Thinkpad T42 until it died
>>> (multiple causes, finally just too much trouble to bother with). I
>>> didn't go back to another Thinkpad, and even if I did the battery
>>> probably wouldn't have been the same, so like you, I'm wondering if
>>> I can adapt them somehow as a power supply / UPS for my new Samsung
>>> notebook. BTW, there are 5 connectors on the battery, so there's
>>> probably some kind of logic built in the insure it's a real IBM
>>> battery connected before the charging will start.
>>
>> Well for starters you know that incorrect charging of Li-Ion
>> batteries are very dangerous right? And without safe guards in
>> place, they can burst into flames (flames that are almost impossible
>> to put out without a special chemical extinguisher and even then
>> maybe not). But knowing this and if you want to continue, I will.
>>
>> With a voltmeter you should find two pins that reads the battery
>> voltage (usually it is the two furthest pins, but not always).
>> Sometimes this doesn't work, but if it does you are in luck. Now you
>> have something to work with. Otherwise it can get very complicated.
>>
>> I don't know, for most people it would be better to sell them as is
>> and not mess with them. And if it has been over three years since
>> the last time they were charged, they probably are not worth
>> anything anyway. As once Li-Ion drops below 2.8v per cell I think it
>> is, it is so very dangerous to even try to change them. As they can
>> react very violently.
>
> Thanks for the information, Bill.
>
> As it turns out, I managed to find an IBM document that gives the
> Voltages to check to see if the battery is OK: Terminal 1 less than
> 11.0 vs ground (terminal 5) and the battery is bad. Mine tests at the
> max 12.6v, so the battery is OK and the charger works!
>
> So recharging isn't a problem, since the charging mechanism is OK...
> now I just need to find out if the Samsung will work OK on 11-12.6 on
> the input. Then I'd just use the IBM battery as an external power
> supply (providing I can cludge up proper connectors).

Everything sounds great to me so far.

> BTW, I didn't mention, but the Samsung is one of those Series 7 models
> with a "non-removable" internal battery. After reading the
> documentation over more carefully, it looks like the Samsung will
> charge to 80 %, then run off the battery until charge drops to (not
> sure, but think 40%), then charge to 80 % again if connected to the
> charger. Apparently it runs off the external supply without recharging
> the battery between the 80% and about 40% levels.... of course, the
> battery isn't discharging, so it basically runs off external power
> only.

Oh beautiful! Most laptop manufactures try to squeeze all of the
capacity they can out of a battery for bragging rights. Yes that works
but the batteries don't last long. This is 4.2v per cell (careful some
battery packs might be in partly parallel, so you can't really count the
cells if known for the total voltage). I have found that up to 4.1v per
cell without heat will provide 5 years of service easy (unless you
recharge past hundreds of times during its life). 4.2v per cell they
generally don't last more than 2 or 3 years.

Almost all documents you read about this says Li-Ion batteries last the
longest at 40% of charge (aka capacity). I don't disagree with this at
all and that sounds right by me. But that would be impossible unless you
had a special charger to do so (you could build one of course). But if
one kept the charge between 40 to 80% I believe would do almost just as
good. So kudos to Samsung for at least trying to get it right.

> The Samsung external power supply/charger doesn't state what the
> output voltage is, but under no load, measures 19v DC. The IBM
> external brick measures only 16.5 no load.... so I'm not sure that the
> 12.6 output by the IBM battery would be enough to charge the Samsung.

Oh that doesn't sound like that will work being stock. You will most
likely need a DC to DC converter.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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#1370

On Apr 25, 6:48 pm, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:


"I have found that up to 4.1v per
cell without heat will provide 5 years of service easy (unless you
recharge past hundreds of times during its life). 4.2v per cell they
generally don't last more than 2 or 3 years."

Even IF this was a proven fact...the average person could make no use
of this information. You should be a fiction writer. (and maybe you
are)

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#1371

In 
news:aa82afe1-12ef-46e7-adad-0d407b3f3085@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com,
Bob_Villa wrote:
> On Apr 25, 6:48 pm, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
> "I have found that up to 4.1v per cell without heat will provide 5 
> years of service easy (unless you recharge past hundreds of times 
> during its life). 4.2v per cell they generally don't last more than 2 
> or 3 years."
>
> Even IF this was a proven fact...the average person could make no use
> of this information. You should be a fiction writer. (and maybe you
> are)

Should be no problem for the average person. Although I could see a 
dimwit having a hard time with it though. ;-)

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3 

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#1378

On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:45:40 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:

>In 
>news:aa82afe1-12ef-46e7-adad-0d407b3f3085@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com,
>Bob_Villa wrote:
>> On Apr 25, 6:48 pm, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>
>> "I have found that up to 4.1v per cell without heat will provide 5 
>> years of service easy (unless you recharge past hundreds of times 
>> during its life). 4.2v per cell they generally don't last more than 2 
>> or 3 years."
>>
>> Even IF this was a proven fact...the average person could make no use
>> of this information. You should be a fiction writer. (and maybe you
>> are)
>
>Should be no problem for the average person. Although I could see a 
>dimwit having a hard time with it though. ;-)


Bill, I just left him a reply earlier.   It seems like he has a
vendetta against you just because he doesn't like some of your posts. 
I could understand if he did this once or twice but he seems, despite
my replies, to just keep doing it.  I actually liked him once but now,
I'm seeing a different side to him and wonder if he has more serious
problems???   Now watch,  I'll be on his hit list too  ...  no big
deal.  

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#1382

In news:9l4np75mv272hkkqol3147b3drs0bhdvqe@4ax.com,
RnR typed:
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2012 11:45:40 -0500, "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>> In
>>
news:aa82afe1-12ef-46e7-adad-0d407b3f3085@a5g2000vbl.googlegroups.com,
>> Bob_Villa wrote:
>>> On Apr 25, 6:48 pm, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
>>>
>>> "I have found that up to 4.1v per cell without heat will provide 5
>>> years of service easy (unless you recharge past hundreds of times
>>> during its life). 4.2v per cell they generally don't last more than
>>> 2 or 3 years."
>>>
>>> Even IF this was a proven fact...the average person could make no
>>> use of this information. You should be a fiction writer. (and maybe
>>> you are)
>>
>> Should be no problem for the average person. Although I could see a
>> dimwit having a hard time with it though. ;-)
>
> Bill, I just left him a reply earlier.   It seems like he has a
> vendetta against you just because he doesn't like some of your posts.
> I could understand if he did this once or twice but he seems, despite
> my replies, to just keep doing it.  I actually liked him once but now,
> I'm seeing a different side to him and wonder if he has more serious
> problems???   Now watch,  I'll be on his hit list too  ...  no big
> deal.

Yes I know. Some people are like that. Luckily they only are a very
small fraction of the population anyway. ;-)

-- 
Bill
Asus EeePC 701 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows 2000 SP5 - OE6 - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2

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#1377

On Wed, 25 Apr 2012 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT), Bob_Villa
<pheeh.zero@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 25, 6:48 pm, "BillW50" <Bill...@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>
>"I have found that up to 4.1v per
>cell without heat will provide 5 years of service easy (unless you
>recharge past hundreds of times during its life). 4.2v per cell they
>generally don't last more than 2 or 3 years."
>
>Even IF this was a proven fact...the average person could make no use
>of this information. You should be a fiction writer. (and maybe you
>are)



Man, I tried to tell you once and you still persist.  You know I used
to like you and on occasion defend your posts but I'm having 2nd
thoughts now.   You are just making a fool of yourself.  It's like you
have nothing in life to do but try to ridicule Bill.  

Heck if you don't like his posts, ignor them.   No one is forcing you
to read them especially if you don't like him.   

Seriously, I think you need to get a life away from the keyboard.

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#1362

On 04/24/2012 11:05 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the beginning
> (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power lots of other
> things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem, alarm clock, etc. All
> great of course. And I have gone through a number of UPS over the years.
> Generally the battery fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries
> generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for
> shipping. And if you wait for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about
> the same price as getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a
> new one.
>
> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do then
> to fiddle with this thing all day.
>
> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this one
> on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks. Sure I
> could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one again?
>
> Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a big
> fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As the
> heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery even
> far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just using it
> when you really need portable power.
>
> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway batteries
> for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries for five
> Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three different battery
> types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And only like three of them
> have less than 95% of their rated capacity. Plus chemically, they will
> become paperweights in about 10 years anyway no matter how well you take
> care of them.
>
> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if one
> wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all out
> before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>



You really need to get a good quality UPS if you want it to last.
I have four commercial grade UPS's and they have been working 
trouble-free for years...but you are right concerning the batteries.
The small gel-cells rarely last more than 4 or 5 years...


-- 
https://www.createspace.com/3707686

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#1364

In news:jn73d8$1e5$1@dont-email.me,
philo wrote:
> On 04/24/2012 11:05 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power
>> lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem,
>> alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone through a
>> number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery fails after 3 to
>> 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range
>> and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if you wait for a sale
>> on UPS, you could get one for about the same price as getting a new
>> battery for an old one. So just get a new one.
>>
>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
>> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
>> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
>> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
>> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do
>> then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>
>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>> again? Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am 
>> also a
>> big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As
>> the heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery
>> even far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just
>> using it when you really need portable power.
>>
>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
>> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>
>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>
> You really need to get a good quality UPS if you want it to last.
> I have four commercial grade UPS's and they have been working
> trouble-free for years...but you are right concerning the batteries.
> The small gel-cells rarely last more than 4 or 5 years...

I do like UPS, so don't get me wrong. But if one is running 
laptops/netbooks and has plenty of spare batteries for the machines 
anyway... an UPS seems somewhat pointless for them anyway.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3 

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#1367

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message news:jn75k1$fae$1@dont-email.me...
> In news:jn73d8$1e5$1@dont-email.me,
> philo wrote:
>> On 04/24/2012 11:05 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power
>>> lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem,
>>> alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone through a
>>> number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery fails after 3 to
>>> 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range
>>> and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if you wait for a sale
>>> on UPS, you could get one for about the same price as getting a new
>>> battery for an old one. So just get a new one.
>>>
>>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
>>> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
>>> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
>>> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
>>> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do
>>> then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>>
>>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>>> again? Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a
>>> big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As
>>> the heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery
>>> even far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just
>>> using it when you really need portable power.
>>>
>>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
>>> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>>
>>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>>
>> You really need to get a good quality UPS if you want it to last.
>> I have four commercial grade UPS's and they have been working
>> trouble-free for years...but you are right concerning the batteries.
>> The small gel-cells rarely last more than 4 or 5 years...
>
> I do like UPS, so don't get me wrong. But if one is running laptops/netbooks and has plenty of spare batteries for the 
> machines anyway... an UPS seems somewhat pointless for them anyway.
>

The power supply part of it may be worthless (in essence) on a laptop, but the surge protection is nice to have. I'd 
rather replace a cheap (by comparison) UPS after a large surge than try to find parts to fix a laptop's power circuit, 
especially the ones that don't have the external brick.

I have a CyberPower 800AVR that I replaced the battery a couple of years ago. IIRC, the trick to getting the two halves 
apart was to unplug the cables that linked each half, change the battery, then plug the cables back while working the 
halves back together. I kinda recall it took a lot longer than the APC's and TrippLite's we had at work.
-- 
SC Tom

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#1372

In news:jn7ea1$4ce$1@dont-email.me,
SC Tom wrote on Tue, 24 Apr 2012 19:51:28 -0400:
> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:jn75k1$fae$1@dont-email.me...
>> In news:jn73d8$1e5$1@dont-email.me,
>> philo wrote:
>>> On 04/24/2012 11:05 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the
>>>> beginning (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can
>>>> power lots of other things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL
>>>> modem, alarm clock, etc. All great of course. And I have gone
>>>> through a number of UPS over the years. Generally the battery fails
>>>> after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries generally run in the 25 to 35
>>>> buck range and they are heavy to pay for shipping. And if you wait
>>>> for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about the same price as
>>>> getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a new one.
>>>>
>>>> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried
>>>> to disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the
>>>> two halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one
>>>> half and some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to
>>>> stay in one half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better
>>>> things to do then to fiddle with this thing all day.
>>>>
>>>> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this
>>>> one on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks.
>>>> Sure I could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one
>>>> again? Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am
>>>> also a big fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion
>>>> batteries). As the heat and repeated charging only shortens the
>>>> life of the battery even far more than just throwing the battery in
>>>> a drawer and just using it when you really need portable power.
>>>>
>>>> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I
>>>> now have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway
>>>> batteries for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries
>>>> for five Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three
>>>> different battery types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And
>>>> only like three of them have less than 95% of their rated capacity.
>>>> Plus chemically, they will become paperweights in about 10 years
>>>> anyway no matter how well you take care of them.
>>>>
>>>> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if
>>>> one wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all
>>>> out before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>>>
>>> You really need to get a good quality UPS if you want it to last.
>>> I have four commercial grade UPS's and they have been working
>>> trouble-free for years...but you are right concerning the batteries.
>>> The small gel-cells rarely last more than 4 or 5 years...
>>
>> I do like UPS, so don't get me wrong. But if one is running
>> laptops/netbooks and has plenty of spare batteries for the machines
>> anyway... an UPS seems somewhat pointless for them anyway.
>
> The power supply part of it may be worthless (in essence) on a
> laptop, but the surge protection is nice to have. I'd rather replace
> a cheap (by comparison) UPS after a large surge than try to find
> parts to fix a laptop's power circuit, especially the ones that don't
> have the external brick.

Laptops as well as desktop power supplies have been using power 
switching supplies for about the last 15 years now. And they can easily 
handle an unstable AC input and still work fine in the 85 to 264VAC 
range. And they continue to put out power even if the AC is interrupted 
for 10 to 20ms. They are also very forgiving of surges on the AC as 
well.

And out of over 20 laptops I have since '84, not a single one has the 
power supply ever failed yet. I did have one Toshiba T1950CS ('94) that 
the power circuit inside of the laptop failed after 5 years. But that 
had nothing to do with the input AC. As it was a design problem and they 
all normally died due to too much heat. They didn't sport a fan either 
and that would have helped a lot.

My CyberPower 800AVR UPS does nothing if the input AC is fine. It only 
does something if it goes too high or too low. And the software keeps a 
log of the times that it does. And in the last five years, it never 
logged of any high voltage.

And yes, I did worry about power surges for decades. But I am not 
worried about them anymore. I have too many backups that all hell could 
break loose here and I am still covered with lots of backup laptops 
anyway. People without hardware backups probably should worry.

> I have a CyberPower 800AVR that I replaced the battery a couple of
> years ago. IIRC, the trick to getting the two halves apart was to
> unplug the cables that linked each half, change the battery, then
> plug the cables back while working the halves back together. I kinda
> recall it took a lot longer than the APC's and TrippLite's we had at
> work.

I didn't get it apart enough to see all of the cables yet. One end 
lifted about an inch to an inch and a half and things started to bind. 
The other end seemed like it was hinged (it I don't think it is, but 
something there is holding it where the two halves fit).

I am sure if I spent a few hours to a day I could figure it all out. But 
I stopped because I know at some point it just isn't worth the time and 
money for me. Maybe when I have some time to kill, I'll take another 
look at it and much thanks. ;-)

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3 

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#1418

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message 
news:jn6j06$m53$1@dont-email.me...
>I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the beginning
> (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power lots of other
> things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem, alarm clock, etc. All
> great of course. And I have gone through a number of UPS over the years.
> Generally the battery fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries
> generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for
> shipping. And if you wait for a sale on UPS, you could get one for about
> the same price as getting a new battery for an old one. So just get a
> new one.
>
> Well my CyberPower 685AVR UPS battery just died recently. I tried to
> disassemble it and all of the parts fit into slots between the two
> halves. And trying to take it apart, some are staying in one half and
> some in the other half. To get it apart, all of it has to stay in one
> half. But not as easy as it seems. And I have better things to do then
> to fiddle with this thing all day.
>
> I checked online and I thought I only paid about 50 bucks for this one
> on sale. But nothing comes close to this one under 100 bucks. Sure I
> could afford it, but that isn't the point. Why do I need one again?
>
> Being a fan of laptops since my first one back in '84, I am also a big
> fan of leaving the battery out (especially Li-Ion batteries). As the
> heat and repeated charging only shortens the life of the battery even
> far more than just throwing the battery in a drawer and just using it
> when you really need portable power.
>
> This all made a lot of sense to me all of these years. Although I now
> have five netbook batteries for three notebooks. Nine Gateway batteries
> for nine Gateway machines. And five Alienware batteries for five
> Alienware machines. That is 19 batteries of only three different battery
> types. And I have plenty of them nowadays. And only like three of them
> have less than 95% of their rated capacity. Plus chemically, they will
> become paperweights in about 10 years anyway no matter how well you take
> care of them.
>
> So I figure why not use some of them as an UPS instead? So what if one
> wears out in two or three years? I can't possibly wear them all out
> before they all will be so old to be any good anyway.
>
> -- 
> Bill
> Gateway M465e ('06 era) - OE-QuoteFix v1.19.2
> Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3
>
>
>
>

My APC Back-UPS 650, (which was the cheaper version and did not come with 
the RS232 lead with the wierd pin-outs - bought the lead on ebay for a few 
pounds),
 must be over 20 years old, (at a guess), ...never had to put a new battery 
in it, ....get several short mains power outages here every winter ....never 
lets me down.
...so  APC every time !!!

regards, Richard

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#1419

On 5/16/2012 3:02 PM PT, RJK typed:

> My APC Back-UPS 650, (which was the cheaper version and did not come with> the RS232 lead with the wierd pin-outs - bought the lead on ebay for a few
> pounds),
>   must be over 20 years old, (at a guess), ...never had to put a new battery
> in it, ....get several short mains power outages here every winter ....never
> lets me down.
> ...so  APC every time !!!

Lucky you. My APC Back-UPS 650VA (BK650MC) did not last even five years: 
2/12/2001 to 9/25/2005. It kept shutting down randomly when powered on a 
few times. So I replaced it with a new APC Back-UPS XS BX1500. That one 
is still kicking arse even though its battery doesn't last long with two 
powerful Intel quad core desktops. :(
-- 
"It's like stepping on ants... I don't step on ants, Major." --Odo and 
Kira from Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
    /\___/\         Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site)
   / /\ /\ \                Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net
  | |o   o| |
     \ _ /        If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.
      ( )         If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed.
Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

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#1420

On 2012-05-17 00:02, RJK wrote:
> "BillW50"<BillW50@aol.kom>  wrote in message
> news:jn6j06$m53$1@dont-email.me...
>> I was a huge fan of uninterruptible power supplies since the beginning
>> (even for laptop use). Besides the computer, you can power lots of other
>> things. A small lamp, cordless phones, DSL modem, alarm clock, etc. All
>> great of course. And I have gone through a number of UPS over the years.
>> Generally the battery fails after 3 to 5 years. And the batteries
>> generally run in the 25 to 35 buck range and they are heavy to pay for
>> shipping.

Lead is scrap.

Who killed the electric car? The lead battery.

I use since 1995 photovoltaic and a lead battery to power
my notebook on the beach. Same, every some years, the lead battery fails.

http://laptop.pege.org/2005-photovoltaic

I had my first electric scooter September 2006 to November 2009
17300 km and 3 sets of lead batteries complete scraped

I have since November 2009 a new electric scooter.
The battery pack was before in an other electric scooter
from January 2008.

22.000 km without a problem, so now 4 times longer service life
than lead

I will change also my photovoltaic system to
lithium iron phosphate batteries.

Less weight far longer serive life

Imagine a battery for a public transport bus.
In average 70.000 km a year stop and go traffic in a city,
every night fast charging. 10 years long.

BYD sells such buses with a 324 kWh lithium iron phosphate battery
designed for 6000 charging cycles, to work
in buses more than 10 years.

That's the ultimate challenge for battery technology.

We will see lead batteries vanishing in the next 10 years
like the CRT. When did You see a CRT last time in an shop?
-- 
Roland Mösl
http://www.pege.org Planetary Engineering Group Earth

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