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Ibm Thinkpad T60

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  Ibm Thinkpad T60 "Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> - 2012-02-08 09:03 +0100
    Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 George <george.ruch74@gmail.com> - 2012-02-08 17:23 -0700
      Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> - 2012-02-13 11:55 +0100
        Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 George <george.ruch74@gmail.com> - 2012-02-13 09:26 -0700
          Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> - 2012-02-17 12:02 +0100
      Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2012-02-21 14:03 +1300
        Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2012-02-22 02:47 +0000
          Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2012-02-22 21:09 +1300
            Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2012-02-28 14:30 +1300
              Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2012-03-01 03:32 +0000
                Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2012-03-05 15:22 +1300
                  Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2012-03-06 00:41 +0000
                    Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60 "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2012-03-07 14:11 +1300
                      Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60, complete with Grateful Dead reference wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2012-03-09 02:59 +0000

#1164 — Ibm Thinkpad T60

Hi

I would like to increase the memory upgrade RAM in a computer Ibm/Lenovo
Thinkpad  T60.

Do you know whether can use 2.5 GB ram?

Thanks


Regards

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#1168

"Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> wrote:
>Hi
>
>I would like to increase the memory upgrade RAM in a computer Ibm/Lenovo
>Thinkpad  T60.
>
>Do you know whether can use 2.5 GB ram?

Thinkpad T60 hardware specifications, courtesy ThinkWiki.org
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60
The T60 will accommodate up to 4GiB memory.


Recommended download: Lenovo Thinkpad T60 Hardware Maintenance
Manual.
http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/detail.page?LegacyDocID=migr-62733

Other resources:
newsgroup:  comp.sys.laptops.thinkpad
Thinkpads.com Support Community
http://forum.thinkpads.com/index.php

HTH.
-- 
George Ruch
"Is there life in Clovis after Clovis Man?"

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#1173

Thanks

You think that this sodimm, function with Ibm-Lenovo/ThinkPad T60?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/ddrii667mhz.jpg/



Thanks



Regards

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#1174

"Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> wrote:

>Thanks
>
>You think that this sodimm, function with Ibm-Lenovo/ThinkPad T60?
>
>http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/ddrii667mhz.jpg/
>
Possible, but that may depend on the specific model.  Here's a
link to Kingston's Memory Search page.
http://www.kingston.com/us/memory/search/Options/

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#1188

Ok, thanks.

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#1189

Somewhere on teh intarwebs George wrote:
> "Dark" <gd@rk.notspam> wrote:
>> Hi
>>
>> I would like to increase the memory upgrade RAM in a computer
>> Ibm/Lenovo Thinkpad  T60.
>>
>> Do you know whether can use 2.5 GB ram?
>
> Thinkpad T60 hardware specifications, courtesy ThinkWiki.org
> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60
> The T60 will accommodate up to 4GiB memory.

That is correct, as it is written. (It would also 'accomodate' 4GB but 
likely wouldn't boot.)

The T60 will run fine with 2 x 2GB SODIMMs. However *any* operating system 
will only see 3GB. This is a limitation of the Intel chipset, not a 32-bit 
thing. The only benefit to adding 2 x 2GB rather than 2GB + 1GB (as I have 
in this machine now) is the small, low single-digit benefit (~4%?) of 
running in synetrical dual-channel RAM mode.

I used to have 2 x 2GB but as the price of DDR2 RAM went up and I acquired 
another machine that had 2 x 1GB SODIMMs I swapped one and haven't noticed 
the difference.
-- 
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) 

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#1200

In article <jhuqh7$q29$1@dont-email.me>,
~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>The T60 will run fine with 2 x 2GB SODIMMs. However *any* operating system 
>will only see 3GB. This is a limitation of the Intel chipset, not a 32-bit 
>thing. 

	Ummmmm, horseshit.


	The 945 chipset on the T60 supports more than 3GB of memory on 64 bit
operating systems or 32 bit systems that properly handle PAE.  Like Linux.

	Pffffttttt.

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#1203

Somewhere on teh intarwebs the wharf rat wrote:
> In article <jhuqh7$q29$1@dont-email.me>,
> ~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> The T60 will run fine with 2 x 2GB SODIMMs. However *any* operating
>> system will only see 3GB. This is a limitation of the Intel chipset,
>> not a 32-bit thing.
>
> Ummmmm, horseshit.
>
> The 945 chipset on the T60 supports more than 3GB of memory on 64 bit
> operating systems or 32 bit systems that properly handle PAE.  Like
> Linux.
>
> Pffffttttt.

That's not a very nice way to talk to someone who only writes as fact what 
he knows about from personal experience. However, as you're calling me a 
liar; From this site http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60

"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB [1]

[1] Due to an addressing limitation in the Intel 945PM and 945GM chipsets, 
only 3GB will be available for use."

Another URL for you:
http://www.maximumpc.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=922714&sid=3512475070db723f5089fd82d458526d


I could find more URLs for you but I think my point is made. The quality of 
any info you give out has been shown for what it's worth. Shame, you seemed 
decent.
-- 
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) 

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#1218

Somewhere on teh intarwebs ~misfit~ wrote:
> Somewhere on teh intarwebs the wharf rat wrote:
>> In article <jhuqh7$q29$1@dont-email.me>,
>> ~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> The T60 will run fine with 2 x 2GB SODIMMs. However *any* operating
>>> system will only see 3GB. This is a limitation of the Intel chipset,
>>> not a 32-bit thing.
>>
>> Ummmmm, horseshit.
>>
>> The 945 chipset on the T60 supports more than 3GB of memory on 64 bit
>> operating systems or 32 bit systems that properly handle PAE.  Like
>> Linux.
>>
>> Pffffttttt.
>
> That's not a very nice way to talk to someone who only writes as fact
> what he knows about from personal experience. However, as you're
> calling me a liar; From this site
> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60
[snip]

No apology Rat? Classy.
-- 
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) 

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#1219

In article <jihao2$b7v$1@dont-email.me>,
~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>No apology Rat? Classy.
>-- 

	Apology for what?  First of all, I never said anything about lying.
You made that up in your own little head.  Secondly, you're completely wrong.
The chipset on the T60 will support access to the full 4GB of installable
RAM (minus a few MB for PCI addressing) when coupled with an operating system
that supports PAE, including Windows Datacenter and Enterprise editions and
most Linuxes.

	I don't need any URL other than the Intel datasheet.  You're
misinterpreting the IBM documentation, because anything other than an 
officially supported platform using one of MS's crippled workstation
editions is invisible to the people writing that stuff.

>"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
>cozy little classification in the DSM."

	I'd settle for a statistically significant fraction of them Reading TFM.

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#1241

Somewhere on teh intarwebs the wharf rat wrote:
> In article <jihao2$b7v$1@dont-email.me>,
> ~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> No apology Rat? Classy.
>
> Apology for what?  First of all, I never said anything about lying.
> You made that up in your own little head.

True, you said "horseshit" and "Pffffttttt".

BTW, "My own *little* head"? Are you resorting to ad hominem? That's a sign 
that someone's on the losing side of a discussion.

> Secondly, you're
> completely wrong.

Wow! How do I tell my T60 running 64-bit 7 Ultimate that it's wrong not 
showing me all of the RAM?

> The chipset on the T60 will support access to the
> full 4GB of installable RAM (minus a few MB for PCI addressing) when
> coupled with an operating system that supports PAE, including Windows
> Datacenter and Enterprise editions and most Linuxes.

The link I gave you to Thinkwiki is a community of folks who're dedicated to 
running various versions of Linux on thinkpads. They state, and I'll repeat 
it as it's been snipped;

"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB - Due to an 
addressing limitation in the Intel 945PM and 945GM chipsets, only 3GB will 
be available for use."

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T60

I'm sure that they'd be pleased to hear from you and your work-around to use 
the full 4GB on a laptop they've been playing with for over 5 years now.

> I don't need any URL other than the Intel datasheet.

Not all system builders use the Intel components in the same way. AIUI IBM / 
Lenovo's BIOS base code (non-upgradable) doesn't allow any more than 3GB to 
be addressed. Period.

Oh, and in case you're inclined to go off on a tangent, let me remind you of 
the subject of this thread.

> You're
> misinterpreting the IBM documentation, because anything other than an
> officially supported platform using one of MS's crippled workstation
> editions is invisible to the people writing that stuff.

Eh? It's nothing to do with "MS". <shakes head> I guess when you only have a 
hammer everything looks like a nail?

>> "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief
>> has a cozy little classification in the DSM."
>
> I'd settle for a statistically significant fraction of them Reading
> TFM.

Me too. The manual for the T60 states: "Maximum memory capacity may require 
the replacement of standard component with largest supported component 
available. On ThinkPad systems with an Intel 945GM or 945PM chipset, even 
though it is possible to physically install 4GB of memory, the actual amount 
of memory addressable by an operating system will be limited to 3GB."

Have fun.
-- 
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) 

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#1247

In article <jj180i$51i$1@dont-email.me>,
~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>Wow! How do I tell my T60 running 64-bit 7 Ultimate that it's wrong not 
>showing me all of the RAM?
>

	Write it a polite letter explaining that the dumb bios doesn't support
memory remapping so a bunch of the available 4GB is taken up by device 
addressing.  Make sure you point out that this is not a limitation of the
chipset, as some people on Usenet claim, but just a braindead bios.  Then dump
your old T60 for a T61.

>"512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB - Due to an 
>addressing limitation in the Intel 945PM and 945GM chipsets, only 3GB will 
>be available for use."

'	They're wrong.  In fact, turning off the net boot ram and usb support
options will get you to about 3.25 just by itself.

>
>Lenovo's BIOS base code (non-upgradable) doesn't allow any more than 3GB to 

	Voila'    So if you knew it was bad BIOS then why did you argue about
chipset bugs?   Sheesh.

	BTW, you can edit bios registers and coax another 512MB or so out of
even a T60.  Nothing to do with the chipset at all.

>Eh? It's nothing to do with "MS". <shakes head> I guess when you only have a 
>hammer everything looks like a nail?

	Specially that point on the top of your little head.  Looks just
like a 8d Common!

	BTW, Windows has some interesting memory limitations built in:

	http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/en-us

	Go hammer on that for a while, Spike.

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#1248

Somewhere on teh intarwebs the wharf rat wrote:
> In article <jj180i$51i$1@dont-email.me>,
> ~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> Wow! How do I tell my T60 running 64-bit 7 Ultimate that it's wrong
>> not showing me all of the RAM?
>>
>
> Write it a polite letter explaining that the dumb bios doesn't support
> memory remapping so a bunch of the available 4GB is taken up by device
> addressing.  Make sure you point out that this is not a limitation of
> the chipset, as some people on Usenet claim, but just a braindead
> bios.  Then dump your old T60 for a T61.
>
>> "512 MB or 1 GB PC2-5300 memory standard upgradable to 4 GB - Due to
>> an addressing limitation in the Intel 945PM and 945GM chipsets, only
>> 3GB will be available for use."
>
> ' They're wrong.  In fact, turning off the net boot ram and usb
> support options will get you to about 3.25 just by itself.

There is no way, no how that you can use more than 3GB RAM with a T60 
regardless of what you may or may not turn off, regardless of what OS you're 
using. If you can prove otherwise there are a whole bunch of very educated 
folks over at http://forum.thinkpads.com/ , most of them in the IT biz who 
would love to hear about it.

Until then STFU. You're wrong and attacking me personally only goes to show 
that you're better at that than you are at IT work.

> BTW, you can edit bios registers and coax another 512MB or so out of
> even a T60.  Nothing to do with the chipset at all.

There is no way, no how that you can use more than 3GB RAM with a T60 
regardless of what you may or may not turn off, regardless of what OS you're 
using. If you can prove otherwise there are a whole bunch of very educated 
folks over at http://forum.thinkpads.com/ , most of them in the IT biz who 
would love to hear about it.

Until then STFU. You're wrong and attacking me personally only goes to show 
that you're better at that than you are at IT work.

>> Eh? It's nothing to do with "MS". <shakes head> I guess when you
>> only have a hammer everything looks like a nail?
>
> Specially that point on the top of your little head.  Looks just
> like a 8d Common!
>
> BTW, Windows has some interesting memory limitations built in:
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/en-us

Red herring, has nothing to do with the subject matter. Obfuscation is your 
forte, real answers certainly aren't.

> Go hammer on that for a while, Spike.

Cute way to compensate. Shame you know FU about the subject at hand.
-- 
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a 
cozy little classification in the DSM."
David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) 

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#1253 — Re: Ibm Thinkpad T60, complete with Grateful Dead reference

In article <jj6cjs$upo$1@dont-email.me>,
~misfit~ <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>There is no way, no how that you can use more than 3GB RAM with a T60 
>regardless of what you may or may not turn off, regardless of what OS you're 

	Ok, let's try one more time.

	If you install 4GB in that obsolete Thinkpad of yours(1) about 700MB
is reserved for PCI device addressing.  Some more is reserved for ROM
shadowing and such.  It doesn't have to be that way but that's how Lenovo 
wrote the BIOS.  All that leaves 1GB for your Windows kernel and 2GB for your
other stuff.  

	Now, if you turn off shadowing, turn the shared video memory down(2), 
and disable as many devices as you can (especially PXE and WOL, and USB BIOS 
stuff) you'll find that you have closer to 3.5 GB but still can't make good 
use of it with MS 32bit desktop crap.  Try a 64 bit whatever.

	So, you CAN "use" more then 3GB.  You can use it for your kernel,
your pirated copy of Call to Duty, to shadow your BIOS, for PCI addressing,
or for a RAM disk.  Just like it says in the Intel spec sheet: 4GB and no more
on the 945.  Dell BIOS of this genre' gives you 3.5 without much monkeying
around, but Lenovo was...more conservative?

>most of them in the IT biz who would love to hear about it.

	You know folks in the IT biz?  I'm impressed.

					
				"I don't know, it must've been the roses
				 The roses, or the ramdisk in her four gee bee
				 I don't know, maybe it was the roses
				 All I know it's way way more than three"


(1) I'm typing this on a T23 running Centos.
(2) I seem to remember that most T60's had discrete
video so s/sharedvideo/shadowed video/ if you want...

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