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External monitor color problem

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  External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-01 20:49 -0700
    Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 04:03 -0700
      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-02 11:09 -0700
        Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 11:17 -0700
        Re: External monitor color problem Bob_Villa <pheeh.zero@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:23 -0700
          Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-02 15:58 -0700
            Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-04 11:26 -0700
              Re: External monitor color problem "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-04 17:26 -0500
              Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-04 15:44 -0700
                Re: External monitor color problem "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-04 18:17 -0500
                  Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-04 21:29 -0700
                    Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-05 02:25 -0700
                      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-05 11:26 -0700
                        Re: External monitor color problem "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2011-11-06 12:24 +1300
                          Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-05 19:27 -0700
                        Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-06 05:06 -0600
                      Re: External monitor color problem "~misfit~" <sore_n_happy@nospamyahoo.com.au> - 2011-11-06 12:16 +1300
                        Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-05 19:50 -0700
                          Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-07 07:29 -0600
                            Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-07 12:10 -0800
                              Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-07 16:20 -0600
                                Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-10 09:49 -0800
                                  Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-10 12:49 -0600
                                    Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-10 18:32 -0800
                                      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-10 18:34 -0800
                                    Re: External monitor color problem wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2011-11-12 09:45 +0000
                                      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-12 11:41 -0800
                                        Re: External monitor color problem Bert <bert@iphouse.com> - 2011-11-12 19:47 +0000
                                          Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-12 14:31 -0800
                                            Re: External monitor color problem wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2011-11-13 04:43 +0000
                                        Re: External monitor color problem wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2011-11-13 01:25 +0000
                                          Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-12 18:57 -0800
                                            Re: External monitor color problem wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2011-11-13 04:44 +0000
                                  Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-10 10:50 -0800
                                  Re: External monitor color problem wrat@panix.com (the wharf rat) - 2011-11-12 09:43 +0000
                                    Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-12 11:46 -0800
                                      Re: External monitor color problem mike <spamme9@gmail.com> - 2011-11-12 12:42 -0800
          Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-04 11:19 -0700
    Re: External monitor color problem "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-02 06:10 -0500
      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-02 10:55 -0700
        Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-06 04:54 -0600
          Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-06 10:29 -0800
            Re: External monitor color problem BillW50 <BillW50@aol.kom> - 2011-11-06 12:48 -0600
    Re: External monitor color problem "Ryan P." <ryannewguy@nogmailjunk.com> - 2011-11-07 20:48 -0600
      Re: External monitor color problem Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> - 2011-11-08 00:49 -0800
        Re: External monitor color problem "Ryan P." <ryannewguy@nogmailjunk.com> - 2011-11-10 20:03 -0600

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#828

On 11/7/2011 2:10 PM, Cameo wrote:
> On 11/7/2011 5:29 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> In court, we heard a different story.
>>
>> Lawsuit alleges Nvidia hid chip defects
>> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10037632-64.html
>
> Thanks, Bill. I was aware of a lot of new owners of HP notebooks similar
> to mine who were complaining about two years ago but I tended to dismiss
> them because I didn't experience any of it till a few months ago. I
> figured many people perhaps used those 12.1" displays in a situation
> where the vent holes were partially covered, thus restricting air flow.
> Keeping them on one's laptop would do that. A couple days ago I also
> noticed the class action lawsuit on an HP forum but I was already too
> late to join. However, your article provides more details than I knew
> about. On the other hand, most of the complaints I was aware of
> concerned the NVIDIA GeForce Go 6150 (UMA) GPU which to my knowledge is
> not part of the GeForce 8 series. I am also curious how they were able
> to address an essentially hardware issue (soldering) through firmware
> upgrade. Limit the video frequencies that cause more heat?
> In any case, my notebook's display is still firing on all cylinders
> (colors,) but this BIOS and possibly driver upgrade issue makes me
> wonder if that could also be the answer in my case. The problem is
> though that I can't find any reference to Go 6150 anywhere on NVIDIA
> websites or on laptopvideo2go.com. I suspect it may be covered by some
> other name but I'm not sure which.

That BIOS fix, patch, or whatever you want to call it... well all that 
does is to kick the GPU fan on high and hope that it keeps the GPU 
cooler. So I wouldn't get too excited. And that to me is a pretty cheesy 
band-aid if you ask me. And all that does it delay the problems that 
will eventually appear anyway.

While that article mentioned GeForce 8, I heard 6 and 7 are also 
affected. I have three Alienware M9700 with two GeForce 7900GS each. So 
I have two Nvidia GPUs to worry about on each machine. Although they are 
on separate PCIe cards and not on the motherboard. So they are easy to 
change when they fail. Same is true for my Alienware M9750. Although it 
uses two GeForce 7950GTX cards.

If I am not playing flight simulators and don't need any high graphic 
abilities, I generally under clock the GPUs. They tend to run cooler 
when under clocked. This one right now both are running at about 163°F. 
I don't get too worried until they get to 180°F.

And if you can believe Nvidia, they can handle up to 221°F before 
failure. I don't think any of mine ever got over 190°F even during heavy 
use. Although the heat blowing out the back, I think I could bake 
cookies when they are that hot. lol

-- 
Bill
Alienware M9700 ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3
AMD Turion 64 ML37 2GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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#854

On 11/7/2011 2:20 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>
> And if you can believe Nvidia, they can handle up to 221°F before
> failure. I don't think any of mine ever got over 190°F even during heavy
> use. Although the heat blowing out the back, I think I could bake
> cookies when they are that hot. lol

I've been looking at various Youtube videos showing how to fix the 
overheating problem of NVIDIA GPUs and the most popular home mods 
involve the use of a pre-1982 penny as a heatsink after sanding it down 
to about half its thickness. I've been looking into it but for the life 
of me I could not figure out how to sand it down without first securing 
it somehow. But how the hack do you secure something already so thin as 
a penny without some special tool? The videos don't go into it.
Once you accomplish that, the hardest job of the repair seems to be the 
disassembly and reassembly of the laptop. Has anybody reading this done 
this job before?

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#855

On 11/10/2011 11:49 AM, Cameo wrote:
> On 11/7/2011 2:20 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> And if you can believe Nvidia, they can handle up to 221°F before
>> failure. I don't think any of mine ever got over 190°F even during heavy
>> use. Although the heat blowing out the back, I think I could bake
>> cookies when they are that hot. lol
>
> I've been looking at various Youtube videos showing how to fix the
> overheating problem of NVIDIA GPUs and the most popular home mods
> involve the use of a pre-1982 penny as a heatsink after sanding it down
> to about half its thickness. I've been looking into it but for the life
> of me I could not figure out how to sand it down without first securing
> it somehow. But how the hack do you secure something already so thin as
> a penny without some special tool? The videos don't go into it.
> Once you accomplish that, the hardest job of the repair seems to be the
> disassembly and reassembly of the laptop. Has anybody reading this done
> this job before?

This is news to me. I heard of copper plate kits (also found on eBay) 
that fits between the GPU and the heatsink. Is this the same idea for 
the sanded down penny?

My understanding for doing this is to reduce the thickness of the 
thermal paste and fill it with copper instead. You still need thermal 
paste on both sides of the copper, but much thinner than before.

It is odd, some models of laptops you hear about doing this to reduce 
the GPU temps. While other models you never hear people talking about 
doing this. My impression is it depends on how much of a gap there is 
between the GPU and heatsink. If the gap is large enough, a copper plate 
is supposed to help.

I've never experimented with these plates, so I don't know if they 
actually work well or not. But it would make sense that copper would be 
a better thermal conductor than a thicker thermal paste would be.

Although I don't know how this is going to help you out with your 
problem. As your red video going to the external monitor is 
intermittent, but not thermal related. Thus causing the GPU to run a tad 
cooler isn't going to change your problem.

-- 
Bill
Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v3.0
Centrino Core Duo T2400 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP3

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#859

On 11/10/2011 10:49 AM, BillW50 wrote:
>
> This is news to me. I heard of copper plate kits (also found on eBay)
> that fits between the GPU and the heatsink. Is this the same idea for
> the sanded down penny?
>
> My understanding for doing this is to reduce the thickness of the
> thermal paste and fill it with copper instead. You still need thermal
> paste on both sides of the copper, but much thinner than before.
>
> It is odd, some models of laptops you hear about doing this to reduce
> the GPU temps. While other models you never hear people talking about
> doing this. My impression is it depends on how much of a gap there is
> between the GPU and heatsink. If the gap is large enough, a copper plate
> is supposed to help.
>
> I've never experimented with these plates, so I don't know if they
> actually work well or not. But it would make sense that copper would be
> a better thermal conductor than a thicker thermal paste would be.
>
> Although I don't know how this is going to help you out with your
> problem. As your red video going to the external monitor is
> intermittent, but not thermal related. Thus causing the GPU to run a tad
> cooler isn't going to change your problem.

This is the video that describes the process pretty well. At about the 
4:10 time mark you'll see the use of a penny. My laptop is the same as 
the one on the video though my GPU is only having a problem with the RED 
VGA pin. Unfortunately I get the same problem even if I connect the 
external monitor via an expansion dock that I've just tried.

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#860

On 11/10/2011 6:32 PM, Cameo wrote:
> This is the video that describes the process pretty well. At about the
> 4:10 time mark you'll see the use of a penny. My laptop is the same as
> the one on the video though my GPU is only having a problem with the RED
> VGA pin. Unfortunately I get the same problem even if I connect the
> external monitor via an expansion dock that I've just tried.

Oops, I forgot to include the youtube link for the above post:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctHTF3oNdxI

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#866

In article <j9h6bu$ldc$1@dont-email.me>, BillW50  <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote:
>
>Although I don't know how this is going to help you out with your 
>problem. As your red video going to the external monitor is 
>intermittent, but not thermal related. Thus causing the GPU to run a tad 
>cooler isn't going to change your problem.
>

	Yeah, he's got a bad pin or contact somewhere.

	A penny isn't too great anyway, too much zinc, try pure
copper sheet or spring for silver lol.

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#867

On 11/12/2011 1:45 AM, the wharf rat wrote:
> 	Yeah, he's got a bad pin or contact somewhere.
>
> 	A penny isn't too great anyway, too much zinc, try pure
> copper sheet or spring for silver lol.

You have not read all my posts in this thread: I was writing about the 
use of pre-82 pennies; they were made of pure copper.

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#868

In news:j9mi5i$avf$1@dont-email.me Cameo <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> You have not read all my posts in this thread: I was writing about the 
> use of pre-82 pennies; they were made of pure copper.

From 1962 to 1982, US pennies were 95% copper and 5% zinc.

http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/?action=fun_facts2

-- 
bert@iphouse.com	St. Paul, MN

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#871

On 11/12/2011 11:47 AM, Bert wrote:
>  From 1962 to 1982, US pennies were 95% copper and 5% zinc.
>
> http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/fun_facts/?action=fun_facts2

OK, but that's good enough for heatsink.

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#875

In article <j9ms44$cc5$1@dont-email.me>, Cameo  <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>OK, but that's good enough for heatsink.
>

	10% better with pure copper.

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#872

In article <j9mi5i$avf$1@dont-email.me>, Cameo  <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>You have not read all my posts in this thread: I was writing about the 
>use of pre-82 pennies; they were made of pure copper.
>

	Please tell me you're not grinding down 1874 large cents for
heat spreaders..

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#873

On 11/12/2011 5:25 PM, the wharf rat wrote:
>
> 	Please tell me you're not grinding down 1874 large cents for
> heat spreaders..

I'm telling you I'm not.

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#876

In article <j9nbm9$6j4$1@dont-email.me>, Cameo  <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>On 11/12/2011 5:25 PM, the wharf rat wrote:
>>
>> 	Please tell me you're not grinding down 1874 large cents for
>> heat spreaders..
>
>I'm telling you I'm not.
>
>

	Whew.  'Cause when you said pure copper cents I remembered that
it's been since like 1874 that they *were* pure copper....

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#856

Cameo wrote:
> On 11/7/2011 2:20 PM, BillW50 wrote:
>>
>> And if you can believe Nvidia, they can handle up to 221°F before
>> failure. I don't think any of mine ever got over 190°F even during heavy
>> use. Although the heat blowing out the back, I think I could bake
>> cookies when they are that hot. lol
> 
> I've been looking at various Youtube videos showing how to fix the 
> overheating problem of NVIDIA GPUs and the most popular home mods 
> involve the use of a pre-1982 penny as a heatsink after sanding it down 
> to about half its thickness. I've been looking into it but for the life 
> of me I could not figure out how to sand it down without first securing 
> it somehow. But how the hack do you secure something already so thin as 
> a penny without some special tool? The videos don't go into it.
> Once you accomplish that, the hardest job of the repair seems to be the 
> disassembly and reassembly of the laptop. Has anybody reading this done 
> this job before?
> 
> 
This is fraught with difficulty.
The penny does several things.
It serves as a heat spreader to provide more hot area to the heat sink.
To do that it needs to be thick.
It to increase thermal conductivity,
you need less stuff in the path between the chip and the heat sink.
The copper ADDS thermal resistance.  Thicker copper, more thermal 
resistance, but better heat spreading.
It causes more pressure to the thermal interface.
but it only works if it doesn't cause any tilt in the heat sink.
This is a problem if the same heat sink plate also sinks the CPU.
You can also make the CPU thermal interface worse if the penny
reduces the pressure on the CPU.
It can mash down on the GPU helping to hold the fractured solder joint
together.

To do any good at all, the copper interface MUST be FLAT, FLAT, FLAT
and SMOOTH, SMOOTH, SMOOTH.  If you can't see  your face undistorted
reflected in the polished surface, it ain't flat or smooth enough.
Any distortion at all can make the interface
MUCH WORSE.

Starting with something that ain't flat seems counterproductive.

Go to the hobby store and buy some sheet copper.

I don't have the link, but there's a company offering a custom copper
plate for the purpose.  Opinions rage over whether it helps or hurts.

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#865

In article <j9h2qo$s1n$1@dont-email.me>, Cameo  <cameo@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>a penny without some special tool? The videos don't go into it.
>Once you accomplish that, the hardest job of the repair seems to be the 
>disassembly and reassembly of the laptop. Has anybody reading this done 
>this job before?
>

	To do this you need a lapping machine.  I'd just go buy some 
copper sheet in the correct dimension (thickness) and cut out a piece
with a snips.  Try ebay for small quantities of stuff like that, or 
amazon.

	If you insist on doing it at home use a diamond plate against
an already lapped (if your tools aren't flat this wont work) steel or 
glass plate, or another diamond plate.  Use oil and mike frequently.

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#869

On 11/12/2011 1:43 AM, the wharf rat wrote:
> 	To do this you need a lapping machine.  I'd just go buy some
> copper sheet in the correct dimension (thickness) and cut out a piece
> with a snips.  Try ebay for small quantities of stuff like that, or
> amazon.
>
> 	If you insist on doing it at home use a diamond plate against
> an already lapped (if your tools aren't flat this wont work) steel or
> glass plate, or another diamond plate.  Use oil and mike frequently.

Yes, I already gave up on the penny and am looking into using a 1.2 mm 
thick 2x2 cm square copper shim pad instead. They are on eBay and even 
on Amazon. They are nice shiny and flat. I guess there is quite a demand 
for them. Any surprise the price of copper shot up? ;-)

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#870

Cameo wrote:
> On 11/12/2011 1:43 AM, the wharf rat wrote:
>>     To do this you need a lapping machine.  I'd just go buy some
>> copper sheet in the correct dimension (thickness) and cut out a piece
>> with a snips.  Try ebay for small quantities of stuff like that, or
>> amazon.
>>
>>     If you insist on doing it at home use a diamond plate against
>> an already lapped (if your tools aren't flat this wont work) steel or
>> glass plate, or another diamond plate.  Use oil and mike frequently.
> 
> Yes, I already gave up on the penny and am looking into using a 1.2 mm 
> thick 2x2 cm square copper shim pad instead. They are on eBay and even 
> on Amazon. They are nice shiny and flat. I guess there is quite a demand 
> for them. Any surprise the price of copper shot up? ;-)
> 
> 
Hobby shop should have sheet copper.

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#798

On 11/2/2011 3:23 PM, Bob_Villa wrote:
> People won't buy a laptop to hook-up to a monitor...they purchase it
> for portability. (in most cases)

For both, I think. Even at the company I worked at we attached the 
company laptops to external monitors and used the built-in display when 
we took them home for work.

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#776

In news:j8qek3$5id$1@dont-email.me,
Cameo typed:
> I've been using my HP tx1410us notebook with an external LCD monitor
> at a nice 1920 x 1080 res for several years without any problem till a
> few months ago when the red color from the RGB display started to
> disappear periodically, leaving the display in that greenish blue
> color. The notebook's own display, however, looks fine.
>
> First I thought maybe the monitor was at fault, but because I also use
> the same monitor at the same res with a desktop, I could see that all
> colors show fine when the KVM switch is showing the desktop's display.
>
> Then I researched this problem with Google and I found that this is a
> pretty common problem with HP laptops, even on newer ones than mine
> though the common denominator for these failing laptops might be the
> NVIDIA GeForce Go 6150 video chip.
>
> I've noticed some guy on the net suggesting to connect the monitor to
> the laptop's USB2 port via a USB-to-VGA adapter and forget about the
> faulty external VGA connector. I wonder if anybody here has used such
> an adapter with an external monitor and how did it work out. My
> immediate problem would be whether such an adapter could power a
> monitor at the 1920 x 1080 HD resolution. I don't think USB2 could
> provide fast enough signal throughput for that but that's my
> monitor's optimal display res at 60 Hz. Unfortunately my notebook, 
> besides the VGA port, only has
> S-Video-out jack but does not have an HDMI port even though my
> monitor does.
> Any suggestions how I might proceed?
>
> Thanks.

I never heard any good things from USB-to-VGA adapters. As the video 
performance is going to be slow. Did you try without the KVM switch? Try 
a different video cable?

I have 11 laptops with S-video. And I don't find it useful except for 
watching movies or something. As the display isn't sharp enough to work 
well with small fonts and icons.

And if you really like your HP, here is a working one for 301 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170720042071

It is too bad that Nvidia knowing sold video chips that they knew 
wouldn't last. I have four Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900GS cards 
in each one. And once the GPU temps rise higher than I like, it is time 
to clean the fans and redo the thermal paste which tends to dry out in 
time.

Say does your act up after it gets warm? If so, doing the same on yours 
might also do the trick as well.

-- 
Bill
Asus EEE PC 702G8 ~ 2GB RAM ~ 16GB-SDHC
Windows XP SP2 

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#783

On 11/2/2011 4:10 AM, BillW50 wrote:
> I never heard any good things from USB-to-VGA adapters. As the video
> performance is going to be slow. Did you try without the KVM switch? Try
> a different video cable?

Of course I did try without the KVM switch, by direct connection, and 
that made no difference. I didn't try different video cable but from the 
large number of similar complaints I found online, I am fairly certain 
that the problem has nothing to do with the cable.

> I have 11 laptops with S-video. And I don't find it useful except for
> watching movies or something. As the display isn't sharp enough to work
> well with small fonts and icons.

That's what I suspected, too.

> And if you really like your HP, here is a working one for 301 bucks.
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/170720042071

I would rather like to make this one work right now.

> It is too bad that Nvidia knowing sold video chips that they knew
> wouldn't last. I have four Alienware M9700 with two Nvidia 7900GS cards
> in each one. And once the GPU temps rise higher than I like, it is time
> to clean the fans and redo the thermal paste which tends to dry out in
> time.

My XP desktop also uses an NVIDIA graphics card, but does not show the 
same problems. Of course the temp inside a desktop is not the same as in 
a crowded laptop.

> Say does your act up after it gets warm? If so, doing the same on yours
> might also do the trick as well.

The temp doesn't seem to make any difference because I noticed that the 
laptop usually starts up with the same color situation it was in when I 
shut down last time: either normal colors or with missing RED.

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