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Groups > comp.sys.apple2 > #25474 > unrolled thread
| Started by | TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2015-08-05 20:27 +0000 |
| Last post | 2015-11-01 10:55 +0000 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 26 — 15 participants |
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Porting GSOS to Single board computers TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-08-05 20:27 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> - 2015-08-06 06:01 +0200
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-08-05 23:46 -0500
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-08-06 05:22 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Stavros Karatsoridis <skaratso@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 06:31 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-08-06 17:28 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Stavros Karatsoridis <skaratso@gmail.com> - 2015-08-06 13:19 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers wssimms@gmail.com - 2015-08-06 17:55 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-08-06 11:30 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Benoit0123 <bgilon@free.fr> - 2015-08-10 14:56 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers sicklittlemonkey <nick.westgate@gmail.com> - 2015-08-12 05:18 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2015-08-12 16:00 -0400
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-08-13 00:22 -0400
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers wssimms@gmail.com - 2015-08-12 17:49 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers misterlott@gmail.com - 2015-10-26 14:47 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-10-26 15:27 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> - 2015-10-26 16:24 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2015-10-27 14:29 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-10-27 17:08 -0500
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2015-10-28 00:51 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-10-28 15:06 -0500
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers misterlott@gmail.com - 2015-10-30 12:40 -0700
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2015-10-28 17:43 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-10-28 14:59 -0400
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers scott@alfter.diespammersdie.us (Scott Alfter) - 2015-10-29 16:16 +0000
Re: Porting GSOS to Single board computers Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2015-11-01 10:55 +0000
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| From | TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-05 20:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Porting GSOS to Single board computers |
| Message-ID | <thej-1438806539@macgui.com> |
A thought experiment... Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the likelyhood of it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? What would the major sticking points be? I, personally, would LOVE to see ANYTHING OTHER THAN LINUX on these devices. I think that it could make the actual hardware more accessible to far more users that Linux could ever hope to. I would also LOVE to see, once again, a TRULY PERSONAL computer be available again. What do you think??? J
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| From | Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 06:01 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.DEB.2.02.1508060600220.21875@ks3374488.kimsufi.com> |
| In reply to | #25474 |
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015, TheJ wrote: > A thought experiment... > > Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the likelyhood of > it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? > > What would the major sticking points be? RPi has a completely different CPU arch and I think a good chunk of the OS is written in ASM. If you were talking a 65C816-based SBC, it might be another story. -uso.
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| From | Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-05 23:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <2088642188460528840.984350mjmahon-aol.com@news.giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #25475 |
Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2015, TheJ wrote: > >> A thought experiment... >> >> Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the likelyhood of >> it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? >> >> What would the major sticking points be? > > RPi has a completely different CPU arch and I think a good chunk of the > OS is written in ASM. If you were talking a 65C816-based SBC, it might be another story. > > -uso. But the graphics architecture would remain a big issue, and a 65C816 doesn't have enough horsepower to emulate the IIgs graphics (not to mention the Ensoniq chip). Consider that the IIgs is *already* a single-board computer. And also consider running a good IIgs emulator on the RPi--like Apple Pi. Porting a complete GUI OS to a very different architecture when portability was never a design consideration is a high difficulty job. -- -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon
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| From | TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 05:22 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <thej-1438838648@macgui.com> |
| In reply to | #25476 |
What caught my attention is that in the video displaying GS.OS 6.0.2 being built, it is being done in MPW32. As far as I can tell, MPW never supported 65816 assembly. It supported 68K and PowerPC assembly, as well as C, C++ and Pascal. So if it the code isn't 65816 ASM, then it is quite possibly Pascal or C. There ARE files in the video that have "C" and "PASCAL" references in the names. The whole point of my post is: if it is being compiled from a high level language, what's stopping it from being targeted to a different hardware platform? Michael pointed out the sound and graphics would be a problem since the hardware is different. J Michael J. Mahon wrote: > Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> wrote: >> On Wed, 5 Aug 2015, TheJ wrote: >> >>> A thought experiment... >>> >>> Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the >>> likelyhood of >>> it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? >>> >>> What would the major sticking points be? >> >> RPi has a completely different CPU arch and I think a good chunk of the >> OS is written in ASM. If you were talking a 65C816-based SBC, it might be >> another story. >> >> -uso. > > But the graphics architecture would remain a big issue, and a 65C816 > doesn't have enough horsepower to emulate the IIgs graphics (not to > mention > the Ensoniq chip). > > Consider that the IIgs is *already* a single-board computer. And also > consider running a good IIgs emulator on the RPi--like Apple Pi. > > Porting a complete GUI OS to a very different architecture when > portability > was never a design consideration is a high difficulty job. >
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| From | Stavros Karatsoridis <skaratso@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 06:31 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <dd3c271a-598d-4e83-a5d7-c78868bd6ef7@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25477 |
On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 1:24:10 AM UTC-4, TheJ wrote: > What caught my attention is that in the video displaying GS.OS 6.0.2 being > built, it is being done in MPW32. > As far as I can tell, MPW never supported 65816 assembly. It supported 68K > and PowerPC assembly, as well as C, C++ and Pascal. So if it the code isn't > 65816 ASM, then it is quite possibly Pascal or C. There ARE files in the > video that have "C" and "PASCAL" references in the names. There most certainly was a 65816 assembler for MPW. There was a whole toolset available for MPW that allowed for cross-platform development of IIgs software on the Macintosh. MPW had MPW IIgs Pascal, MPW IIgs assembler, and I think there was even a C compiler for it as well.
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| From | TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 17:28 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <thej-1438882215@macgui.com> |
| In reply to | #25479 |
My whole "thought experiment" was based on the possibility that it was at least partly written in a high level language. Porting from assembly would be a small nightmare I'm sure. j Stavros Karatsoridis wrote: > On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 1:24:10 AM UTC-4, TheJ wrote: >> What caught my attention is that in the video displaying GS.OS 6.0.2 >> being >> built, it is being done in MPW32. >> As far as I can tell, MPW never supported 65816 assembly. It supported >> 68K >> and PowerPC assembly, as well as C, C++ and Pascal. So if it the code >> isn't >> 65816 ASM, then it is quite possibly Pascal or C. There ARE files in the >> video that have "C" and "PASCAL" references in the names. > > There most certainly was a 65816 assembler for MPW. There was a whole > toolset available for MPW that allowed for cross-platform development of > IIgs software on the Macintosh. > > MPW had MPW IIgs Pascal, MPW IIgs assembler, and I think there was even a > C > compiler for it as well. >
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| From | Stavros Karatsoridis <skaratso@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 13:19 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <7faf6c40-81d2-4c0a-98f2-0d2b16f00bf3@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25481 |
On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 1:30:17 PM UTC-4, TheJ wrote: > My whole "thought experiment" was based on the possibility that it was at > least partly written in a high level language. > Porting from assembly would be a small nightmare I'm sure. > Yeah, portions of GS/OS were written in a high level language, but much of the lower-level stuff was written in 65816 machine code.
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| From | wssimms@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 17:55 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ee060a8b-2439-4e36-b62f-81e44c72f68e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25481 |
Am Freitag, 7. August 2015 02:30:17 UTC+9 schrieb TheJ: > My whole "thought experiment" was based on the possibility that it was at > least partly written in a high level language. > Porting from assembly would be a small nightmare I'm sure. It was quite common back in the 60's and 70's to port software written in assembly language from one computer to another by simply rewriting it with direct reference to the original code. Even Unix itself -- famously portable due to being written mostly in C -- came with a lot of software written in assembly language, which had to be rewritten when it was ported. Of course, those rewrites often were from assembly to C, which then further enhanced the portability of the system. So I'd say it is definitely within the realm of possibility to "port" GS/OS to some other system. However, I'm not really sure why one would want to do it.
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| From | Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-06 11:30 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <mpvghe$e14$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25474 |
In article <thej-1438806539@macgui.com>, TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> wrote: >A thought experiment... > >Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the likelyhood of >it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? > >What would the major sticking points be? > >I, personally, would LOVE to see ANYTHING OTHER THAN LINUX on these devices. >I think that it could make the actual hardware more accessible to far more >users that Linux could ever hope to. > >I would also LOVE to see, once again, a TRULY PERSONAL computer be available >again. > >What do you think??? There are several alternatives to Linux for the Pi. FreeBSD is one, and RISC-OS is another. RISC-OS if you don't know it, is a single-user, co-operatively multitasking OS with a graphical front-end. It's probably the closest thing you'll get to GSOS. Personally, I think the actual hardware is pretty much fully accessible to everyone, no-matter which OS you use. There is a lot of work underway to open up the GPU side it of too with many working examples now. (Although I've not been keeping up for some time). The ARM and GPIO side is fully accesible (under Linux and other OSs) There are now more than 5 million Pi's out there... Gordon (Who mainains one of the GPIO libraries for the Pi and has written shed-loads of code for it in the public domain and not so public too, including a BASIC interpreter with a few nods to Applesoft FWIW)
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| From | Benoit0123 <bgilon@free.fr> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-10 14:56 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <benoit0123-1439218659@macgui.com> |
| In reply to | #25474 |
TheJ wrote: > A thought experiment... > > Now that the full source for GSOS is available, what would the likelyhood > of > it being ported to a single board computer like the Raspberry Pi be? > > What would the major sticking points be? > > I, personally, would LOVE to see ANYTHING OTHER THAN LINUX on these > devices. > I think that it could make the actual hardware more accessible to far more > users that Linux could ever hope to. > > I would also LOVE to see, once again, a TRULY PERSONAL computer be > available > again. > > What do you think??? > > J > I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi will get a look at RISC OS: a system: a) specially designed for this family of processors (optimized) b) with a vivid community for upgrading the OS or still creating new applications; c) offering a shared source initiative on the whole operating system; d) PRMs (programming reference manuals) are available in PDF format for easy reference. http://www.riscosopen.org OK it's not GS/OS but is as user friendly and more capable for nowadays challenges. It has not only been ported to R-Pi but to other Soc/devboards as well. -- Growing old is mandatory.. growing up is optional.. But the other way round is as true.
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| From | sicklittlemonkey <nick.westgate@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-12 05:18 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <d7727ccf-5243-44a0-96e1-74f484866413@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25499 |
On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: > I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi > will get a look at RISC OS Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it up again on the Pi. About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so it worked when the library was done.) Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it would be much the same with an OS. And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. Just a dream. ; - ) In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. Cheers, Nick.
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| From | David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-12 16:00 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <mqg8h7$tet$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #25506 |
On 8/12/2015 8:18 AM, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. And that's a good point right there. Once you have the OS running, which might be visually nice, you are still starting from scratch with porting all apps, including all the tools to build those apps. The CP/M 68k guys have this same bootstrapping problem. While the BDOS calls are the same, all the assembly code surrounding them in a compiled app is targeted at the wrong processor. So then you need a cross-compiler that targets the right processor. Then you have to compile an editor, and a native assembler... lather, rinse, repeat. Fun stuff for sure, but don't forget the depth of the commitment. And of course translators are fine and dandy when you have limitless space (and CPU horsepower) to do all that work for you. But that kind of defeats the purpose of targeting a different CPU in the first place. :-)
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| From | Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-13 00:22 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <alpine.LNX.2.02.1508130020580.32413@darkstar.example.org> |
| In reply to | #25506 |
On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: >> I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi >> will get a look at RISC OS > > Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it up again on the Pi. > > About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so it worked when the library was done.) > > Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it would be much the same with an OS. > > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. Just a dream. ; - ) > > In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. > And yet, when Apple came along with the Power PCs, they included an emulator to run 68000 programs. The idea was to make sure there were programs that could run on the new computers, and emulation was the way initially. Michael
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| From | wssimms@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-08-12 17:49 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <6c526afb-678b-4a31-8632-a96c7092d39f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25510 |
Am Donnerstag, 13. August 2015 09:33:34 UTC+9 schrieb Michael Black: > On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > > > On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: > >> I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi > >> will get a look at RISC OS > > > > Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it up again on the Pi. > > > > About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so it worked when the library was done.) > > > > Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it would be much the same with an OS. > > > > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. Just a dream. ; - ) > > > > In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. > > > And yet, when Apple came along with the Power PCs, they included an > emulator to run 68000 programs. The idea was to make sure there were > programs that could run on the new computers, and emulation was the way > initially. So why not just run GSPort on your RPi and be done with it?
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| From | misterlott@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-26 14:47 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <32e82662-29c4-4992-a63d-f881d8fc4e17@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25511 |
On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 8:49:23 PM UTC-4, wss...@gmail.com wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 13. August 2015 09:33:34 UTC+9 schrieb Michael Black: > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: > > >> I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi > > >> will get a look at RISC OS > > > > > > Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it up again on the Pi. > > > > > > About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so it worked when the library was done.) > > > > > > Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it would be much the same with an OS. > > > > > > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. Just a dream. ; - ) > > > > > > In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. > > > > > And yet, when Apple came along with the Power PCs, they included an > > emulator to run 68000 programs. The idea was to make sure there were > > programs that could run on the new computers, and emulation was the way > > initially. > > So why not just run GSPort on your RPi and be done with it? Emulation ain't real.
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| From | Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-26 15:27 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <n0m992$kt3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #26084 |
In article <32e82662-29c4-4992-a63d-f881d8fc4e17@googlegroups.com>, misterlott@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 8:49:23 PM UTC-4, wss...@gmail.com wrote: > > Am Donnerstag, 13. August 2015 09:33:34 UTC+9 schrieb Michael Black: > > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: > > > >> I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the > > > >> R-Pi > > > >> will get a look at RISC OS > > > > > > > > Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it > > > > up again on the Pi. > > > > > > > > About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - > > > > coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for > > > > the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our > > > > library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so > > > > it worked when the library was done.) > > > > > > > > Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon > > > > as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it > > > > would be much the same with an OS. > > > > > > > > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at > > > > 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for > > > > stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. > > > > Just a dream. ; - ) > > > > > > > > In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote > > > > an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. > > > > > > > And yet, when Apple came along with the Power PCs, they included an > > > emulator to run 68000 programs. The idea was to make sure there were > > > programs that could run on the new computers, and emulation was the way > > > initially. > > > > So why not just run GSPort on your RPi and be done with it? > > Emulation ain't real. If I hang a keyboard, mouse, and monitor out of a box that you don't get to look inside, and the screen shows you what a GS would show you when you click the mouse or punch the keys, I defy you to give me a valid reason you should care (1) whether it's a "real" GS, or something - anything from a PC or RPi to a half a dozen ultra-genius fieldmice - running a GS emulation? (1) The *ONLY* possible exception I can come up with that isn't pure BS nitpickery that deserves a slap upside the head would be if it's a concept of "I've got an Original Apple //GS in mint condition for sale" when there's actually an RPi or some similar "That ain't what you said you were selling me" substitute inside the box. -- Security provided by Mssrs Smith and/or Wesson. Brought to you by the letter Q
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| From | John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-26 16:24 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <50ef7284-a8de-4174-a923-b6252572ce5a@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #25511 |
On Wednesday, August 12, 2015 at 5:49:23 PM UTC-7, wss...@gmail.com wrote: > Am Donnerstag, 13. August 2015 09:33:34 UTC+9 schrieb Michael Black: > > On Wed, 12 Aug 2015, sicklittlemonkey wrote: > > > > > On Tuesday, 11 August 2015 02:57:42 UTC+12, Benoit Gilon wrote: > > >> I would suggest that people looking for alternative to linux on the R-Pi > > >> will get a look at RISC OS > > > > > > Yeah, RISC OS was great back in the day, and it felt great to boot it up again on the Pi. > > > > > > About porting assembly above, a friend and I ported a game we wrote - coincidentally from ARM to x86. I just typed up a simple mapping for the most common instructions and stuck it on the wall. Most of our library was ported in a couple of weeks. (The game itself was in C, so it worked when the library was done.) > > > > > > Anyway, the porting was simple translation for logic stuff, but as soon as you hit hardware access it was down the rabbit hole. I expect it would be much the same with an OS. > > > > > > And what would be the point? All current GS software is targeted at 65816. I suppose you could dream up some kind of binary translator for stuff that can't be recompiled ... But I think it will remain that. Just a dream. ; - ) > > > > > > In fact RISC OS came with a nice BBC (6502) emulator in ROM. We wrote an Apple II emulator in ARM assembly which was a lot of fun. > > > > > And yet, when Apple came along with the Power PCs, they included an > > emulator to run 68000 programs. The idea was to make sure there were > > programs that could run on the new computers, and emulation was the way > > initially. > > So why not just run GSPort on your RPi and be done with it? The RPi is very much a moving target compared to a real GS. There are multiple hardware configs of the RPi (& Orange Pi, Banana Pi, etc), and a ton of hw/linux/driver variations which can cause compatibility and usage problems. But yes, it would be possible in theory to standardize the RPi HW, OS, USB devies, & drivers. But what about users who have data on 5.25, 3.5, Iomega ZIP drives, or custom I/O cards? The next difference is going to be look & feel. The mechanical keyboard, location of the CTRL & ESC keys, the analog joystick and/or paddles, the aspect ratio of the screen, pixel size, and phosphor latency all affect the user experience. Some people won't care. Others will care a lot. And then there's the reliability of the emulators. I'm often bumping into compatibility problems with current emulators. If you want to make the Apple II do something cool and novel the emulators cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate. -JB
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| From | D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-27 14:29 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <1314971893467649039.923849dog_cow-macgui.com@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #26088 |
John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> wrote: > > And then there's the reliability of the emulators. I'm often bumping into > compatibility problems with current emulators. If you want to make the > Apple II do something cool and novel the emulators cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate. > Worth repeating as it's the reason why I use emulators as little as possible, and don't do any development on them.
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| From | Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-27 17:08 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <LOKdnQvtscV8aLLLnZ2dnUVZ5j6dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #26090 |
D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote: > John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> wrote: >> >> And then there's the reliability of the emulators. I'm often bumping into >> compatibility problems with current emulators. If you want to make the >> Apple II do something cool and novel the emulators cannot be trusted to be 100% accurate. >> > > Worth repeating as it's the reason why I use emulators as little as > possible, and don't do any development on them. > Interesting. I frequently use AppleWin for development, and have not encountered any accuracy issues. I doubt that heavily used emulators have many significant bugs, or they would have been reported and fixed. Of course, subtle timing errors might go undetected/uncorrected for some time, because very little software depends on them. If you find any errors, please report them so they can be fixed--the community is ultimately responsible for testing! And finally, even though I do most development on an emulator, I would not release software without full testing on real machines. (And any discrepancies would be reported as errors.) -- -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://michaeljmahon.com
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| From | D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2015-10-28 00:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <dog_cow-1445993639@macgui.com> |
| In reply to | #26093 |
Michael J. Mahon wrote: > D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> wrote: >> John Brooks <jbrooks@blueshiftinc.com> wrote: >>> >>> And then there's the reliability of the emulators. I'm often bumping >>> into >>> compatibility problems with current emulators. If you want to make the >>> Apple II do something cool and novel the emulators cannot be trusted to >>> be 100% accurate. >>> >> >> Worth repeating as it's the reason why I use emulators as little as >> possible, and don't do any development on them. >> > > Interesting. > > I frequently use AppleWin for development, and have not encountered any > accuracy issues. > I've been doing a lot of development for the Uthernet II recently….. :-)
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