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FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation

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  FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation pitz <pitz.wong@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 12:56 -0700
    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> - 2015-04-06 17:55 -0400
    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-02 20:56 -0500
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 09:17 -0400
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Gary Gray <vengefultacos@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 15:54 -0400
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-04 11:01 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Gary Gray <vengefultacos@gmail.com> - 2015-07-04 17:25 -0400
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 14:16 -0700
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-13 22:36 +0000
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-06 17:06 -0700
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-07 09:51 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-07-07 15:32 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-07 16:45 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation roughana <andrew.roughan@writeme.com> - 2015-07-07 18:49 -0700
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Christopher G. Mason" <cgm1@my-deja.com> - 2015-07-07 23:19 -0400
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 10:17 -0700
                Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 21:53 -0400
                  Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 20:29 -0700
                    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation RJ <moddkid@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:31 +0000
                      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 07:20 -0700
                      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:26 -0700
                        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation RJ <moddkid@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 11:46 +0000
                          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 08:36 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Christopher G. Mason" <cgm1@my-deja.com> - 2015-07-07 23:16 -0400
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation mdj <mdj.mdj@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 05:43 -0700
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-08 15:57 +0000
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Sean Fahey <a2fan@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-08 09:12 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-09 09:00 -0500
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Warren Ernst <wernst@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 10:34 -0700
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-08 17:56 +0000

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#24379 — FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation

Good news for those following the FloppyEmu device.  Steve has finally got ProDos 800K disk emulation going, and it's just a firmware update for those who already have used it for their older Macs.

http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/01/apple-ii-800k-3-5-disk-emulation/

Support for 5.25" disk emulation and SmartPort block devices are also already in the works.

/pitz

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#24382

"pitz" <pitz.wong@gmail.com> wrote in message news:4e
0d959b-d2c4-4b49-8451-a68bc9bda90a@googlegroups.com... 
> Good news for those following the FloppyEmu device. 
> Steve has finally got ProDos 800K disk emulation going, 
> and it's just a firmware update for those who already 
> have used it for their older Macs. 
> 
> http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/01/apple-ii-800k-3-5-disk-emulation/ 
> 
> Support for 5.25" disk emulation and SmartPort 
> block devices are also already in the works. 
> 
> /pitz 

Awesome, thank you.  Makes me so glad that I already 
bought one a while ago. 

Bill Garber - I love my 
C1 D0 D0 CC C5 A0 C9 C9 C7 D3 
http://www.sepa-electronics.com 

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#25194

<http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/macintosh-floppy-emu/>

Has anyone yet benchmarked the read/write times for the FloppyEmu when used
with an Apple IIc, IIc+, or IIGS? I would imagine that the SmartPort
interface sets the throughput ceiling, but it would be nice if overall
performance for the device at least came close to touching that ceiling.

Like many here, I had been hoping for Cédric's SPVHD to make it to market,
but this product, particularly with the case and extension cable, looks like
it has potential, particularly when used with a IIc/IIc+.

There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
(unless I wanted to change the image, of course).

If you've got a FloppyEmu, please share your impressions. Thanks.






Hugh Hood

   


in article 4e0d959b-d2c4-4b49-8451-a68bc9bda90a@googlegroups.com, pitz at
pitz.wong@gmail.com wrote on 4/6/15 2:56 PM:

> Good news for those following the FloppyEmu device.  Steve has finally got
> ProDos 800K disk emulation going, and it's just a firmware update for those
> who already have used it for their older Macs.
> 
> http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/01/apple-ii-800k-3-5-disk-emulation/
> 
> Support for 5.25" disk emulation and SmartPort block devices are also already
> in the works.
> 
> /pitz

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#25196

On 07/02/2015 09:56 PM, Hugh Hood wrote:
>
> <http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/macintosh-floppy-emu/>

> If you've got a FloppyEmu, please share your impressions. Thanks.

I think it's the best thing since sliced bread!  I also had high hopes for 
Cedric's SPVHD, but he seems to have lost interest in the project (there have 
been rumors of health issues, but I've heard nothing definitive).

Steve's FloppyEmu is a great, universal solution for all older Apple 
computers.  I'm glad he listened to the A2 community and put the effort into 
making things compatible.

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#25197

I got mine a few days ago, and attached it to my original //c. I haven't 
had too much time to play with it yet. But, here are my quick overall 
impressions, compared to my UNISDISK 
(http://tulip-house.ddo.jp/DIGITAL/UNISDISK/english.html) which I have 
attached to a //c+ (and, to a lesser extent, the CFFA 3000s I have in my 
IIgs and IIe).

I've mainly used it in smartport mode. Trying to boot 5.25" DSK images 
didn't work, as Steve's web site indicated. I'd need his (unreleased as 
of yet) plug adapter to get that to work. Definitely would be nice to be 
able to play old floppy-based games. I didn't try 800k images.

For the "hard disk" smartport mode: On the plus side: you don't have to 
select a smartdisk image each time you boot. Once it's in smartport 
mode, it remembers that setting. It boots right into the smartport hard 
disk image. On the downside, it looks like the filenames for the 
smartport devices are hard coded (i.e. you must have the first smartport 
disk image named SMART0.2MG (or .PO or .HDV). The UNISDISK lets you get 
to choose your smartport disk images (although not on the fly, I believe 
you have to reboot to have it take effect). However, I haven't found 
myself swapping the hard disk images that much on the UNISDISK, so this 
isn't huge.

The //c recognizes two smartport hard disks (even though I have four on 
disk). I think this is a limitation of the //c.

One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees 
the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it. 
Not sure why this is... However, it seems simple enough just to reboot 
the IIc after power on (assuming you even need the second disk).

I believe Steve says that the Floppyemu should be daisy-chainable off of 
other drives. I tried this by hooking it up to my Unidisk, but it fails 
to boot, and the //c gives me a "Check Drive" message. I suspect this 
might be a power issue (the //c, the Unidisk, and the Floppyemu are just 
too much for the //c power supply to handle), rather than a problem with 
the Floppyemu. I bought a modern replacement power supply for my //c, 
but that seems incapable of powering the //c with the Unidisk attached. 
It works fine for the IIc alone (or even for the IIc + Floppyemu). Maybe 
I'll try hooking up the external 5-1/4" floppy I have and see if that 
can daisy chain with it. The UNISDISk specifically says it cannot be 
daisychained (at least I think I read that).

As for speed... I haven't benchmarked it or anything, but it seems nice 
and fast. I generally haven't noticed much of a delay from disk 
operations. I think it and the UNISDISK both lag a bit behind the CFFA 
3000 I have, but this is just a subjective feeling. I also feel the 
speed issue is a little moot... it's certainly faster than real floppies.

The display on the Floppyemu is larger and is easier to read thanks to 
its bright backlight. The UNISDISK display is rather small and hard to 
read. That's somewhat moot, with the ability to use a Flashair card and 
use a web browser to select disk images and change the emulation mode 
between hard disk and floppies.

Neither the UNISDISK nor the Floppyemu can do both floppy and hard disk 
emulation at the same time. The CFFA 3000 can, as long as you leave slot 
6 on your system empty.

The upshot is that my 31-year old //c finally has mass storage attached 
to it, so that's a huge win :). I also like that it frees it from the 
mechanical drives, whose days are more numbered than the rest of the 
machine, I'm sure.

I also appreciate that Floppyemu comes with a real and sturdy 19pin 
adapter. The plug on the UNISDISK is made using pins pushed through a 
circuit board. That makes me wince when I detach it. I can understand 
why the UNIDISK creator went that route: 19-pin plugs are very rare... 
not something you can easily source.

The final clincher is that you can get the Floppyemu right now. 
Unfortunately, the UNISDISK isn't available at the moment due to its 
creator's health issues.

Oh, and if you buy the Floppyemu, I strongly suggest buying the 
enclosure too. One thing I worry about with the UNISDISK is that it's 
exposed, and stray static charges could zap the thing while I am poking 
at its buttons. Or my idiot cat could jump on it. Plus the fragile LCD 
is also exposed. Floppyemu's enclosure eliminates those worries. Plus, 
The case is freakin' gorgeous. It's laser cut acrylic, giving the unit a 
real professional polish that a bare circuitboard doesn't match. The 
only downside I can say about the case is that it makes me wish the 
Floppyemu had more blingy flashing lights to show off ;)

TLDR version: strong recommendation to buy if you have a //c or //c+. I 
still prefer the CFFA 3000 in a IIgs or IIe, unless I also had a need 
for emulating Mac floppy disks as well.

On 07/02/2015 09:56 PM, Hugh Hood wrote:
>
> <http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/macintosh-floppy-emu/>
>
> Has anyone yet benchmarked the read/write times for the FloppyEmu when used
> with an Apple IIc, IIc+, or IIGS? I would imagine that the SmartPort
> interface sets the throughput ceiling, but it would be nice if overall
> performance for the device at least came close to touching that ceiling.
>
> Like many here, I had been hoping for Cédric's SPVHD to make it to market,
> but this product, particularly with the case and extension cable, looks like
> it has potential, particularly when used with a IIc/IIc+.
>
> There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
> default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
> a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
> (unless I wanted to change the image, of course).
>
> If you've got a FloppyEmu, please share your impressions. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hugh Hood
>
>
>
>
> in article 4e0d959b-d2c4-4b49-8451-a68bc9bda90a@googlegroups.com, pitz at
> pitz.wong@gmail.com wrote on 4/6/15 2:56 PM:
>
>> Good news for those following the FloppyEmu device.  Steve has finally got
>> ProDos 800K disk emulation going, and it's just a firmware update for those
>> who already have used it for their older Macs.
>>
>> http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/01/apple-ii-800k-3-5-disk-emulation/
>>
>> Support for 5.25" disk emulation and SmartPort block devices are also already
>> in the works.
>>
>> /pitz
>

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#25199

Gary, 

Please accept my personal thanks for your taking the time to write an
extended review of the FloppyEmu.

> 
> For the "hard disk" smartport mode: On the plus side: you don't have to
> select a smartdisk image each time you boot. Once it's in smartport
> mode, it remembers that setting. It boots right into the smartport hard
> disk image. 

Perfect. Thanks for the clarification on that point.

> 
> The //c recognizes two smartport hard disks (even though I have four on
> disk). I think this is a limitation of the //c.
> 
> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees
> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it.
> Not sure why this is... However, it seems simple enough just to reboot
> the IIc after power on (assuming you even need the second disk).
> 

Gary, if you get a chance to hook the FloppyEmu to your IIc+, can you check
to see if it also behaves the same way? BTW, did your boot image contain
ProDOS 2.0.3, or perhaps an earlier version?


> 
> As for speed... I haven't benchmarked it or anything, but it seems nice
> and fast. I generally haven't noticed much of a delay from disk
> operations. I think it and the UNISDISK both lag a bit behind the CFFA
> 3000 I have, but this is just a subjective feeling. I also feel the
> speed issue is a little moot... it's certainly faster than real floppies.
> 

Very good. And thanks again.





Hugh Hood




---------

Steven (Hirsch) wrote:


> 
> 
> I think it's the best thing since sliced bread!  I also had high hopes for
> Cedric's SPVHD, but he seems to have lost interest in the project (there
> have been rumors of health issues, but I've heard nothing definitive).
> 
> 

Man, that's an outstanding endorsement, as I know you're pretty demanding.

Thanks.





Hugh Hood

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#25200

On 07/04/2015 12:01 PM, Hugh Hood wrote:
> Gary,
>
> Please accept my personal thanks for your taking the time to write an
> extended review of the FloppyEmu.

You're welcome!


>>
>> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees
>> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it.
>> Not sure why this is... However, it seems simple enough just to reboot
>> the IIc after power on (assuming you even need the second disk).
>>
>
> Gary, if you get a chance to hook the FloppyEmu to your IIc+, can you check
> to see if it also behaves the same way? BTW, did your boot image contain
> ProDOS 2.0.3, or perhaps an earlier version?
>

I was booting it with an earlier version (1.8.4 I think? Which I guess 
came from the old boot disk I have for the //c, which has the Z-RAM 
Ultra ramdisk & clock card driver). I upgraded PRODOS to version 2.0.3, 
but no change in behavior.

I hooked it up the to //c+ to see what would happen. Booting it on the 
//c+ is actually worse: on power on, the //c+ reports that there are no 
bootable volumes online. Pressing Ctrl+OA+Reset gets it to boot off of 
the first smartport drive. However, it does not recognize the other 
smartport drive images at all. It looks like it only tries to assign 
disks to slot 5. Since slot 5 on the //c+ already has the internal 3.5" 
drive on it, I'm guessing it does not know how to assign the disk to 
another slot.

Oh, and playing with it more, I realize that I misrepresented the 
UNISDISK in several ways. You *can* swap smartport disks on the fly 
using the Flashair interface. Looking back at the UNISDISK website, I 
see the restriction on changing disk images is when you are using the 
Apple II Desktop. It claims you cannot eject an image... but I was able 
to do it.

Also, UNISDISK makes three smartport drives available on the //c+. It 
makes four smartport drives available on the //c. The //c+ gets one less 
drive because, as on the Floppyemu, the internal 3.5" drive appears 
attached to slot 5.

Gary

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#25279

On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 2:25:42 PM UTC-7, vengefultacos wrote:
> On 07/04/2015 12:01 PM, Hugh Hood wrote:
> > Gary,
> >
> > Please accept my personal thanks for your taking the time to write an
> > extended review of the FloppyEmu.
> 
> You're welcome!
> 
> 
> >>
> >> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees
> >> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it.
> >> Not sure why this is... However, it seems simple enough just to reboot
> >> the IIc after power on (assuming you even need the second disk).
> >>
> >
> > Gary, if you get a chance to hook the FloppyEmu to your IIc+, can you check
> > to see if it also behaves the same way? BTW, did your boot image contain
> > ProDOS 2.0.3, or perhaps an earlier version?
> >
> 
> I was booting it with an earlier version (1.8.4 I think? Which I guess 
> came from the old boot disk I have for the //c, which has the Z-RAM 
> Ultra ramdisk & clock card driver). I upgraded PRODOS to version 2.0.3, 
> but no change in behavior.
> 
> I hooked it up the to //c+ to see what would happen. Booting it on the 
> //c+ is actually worse: on power on, the //c+ reports that there are no 
> bootable volumes online. Pressing Ctrl+OA+Reset gets it to boot off of 
> the first smartport drive. However, it does not recognize the other 
> smartport drive images at all. It looks like it only tries to assign 
> disks to slot 5. Since slot 5 on the //c+ already has the internal 3.5" 
> drive on it, I'm guessing it does not know how to assign the disk to 
> another slot.
> 
> Oh, and playing with it more, I realize that I misrepresented the 
> UNISDISK in several ways. You *can* swap smartport disks on the fly 
> using the Flashair interface. Looking back at the UNISDISK website, I 
> see the restriction on changing disk images is when you are using the 
> Apple II Desktop. It claims you cannot eject an image... but I was able 
> to do it.
> 
> Also, UNISDISK makes three smartport drives available on the //c+. It 
> makes four smartport drives available on the //c. The //c+ gets one less 
> drive because, as on the Floppyemu, the internal 3.5" drive appears 
> attached to slot 5.
> 
> Gary

I've posted a new version of the Apple II firmware for Floppy Emu, which addresses a few issues with Smartport hard disk emulation that were observed on the Apple IIc and IIc+. You can download the new firmware at http://www.bigmessowires.com/apple-II-0.1J3-F6.zip

All Smartport disks should now be detected during the first cold boot on the IIc and IIc+. Previously only 1 was detected, and it was necessary to do a warm reboot to make the others appear.

The IIc+ can now use the internal 3.5 inch drive simultaneously with external emulated Smartport disks. Previously there was a conflict that would cause the machine to hang or report disk errors when trying to use them both.

IIc supports up to four Smartport disks. IIc+ supports up to three Smartport disks. 

There may still be some intermittent cold boot problems with the IIc+ with this new firmware - I suspect a timing related glitch that pops up occasionally during bootup on the IIc+ for reasons I can't identify. If you try this on a IIc+, please let me know how it goes!

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#25283

> 
> I've posted a new version of the Apple II firmware for Floppy Emu, which
> addresses a few issues with Smartport hard disk emulation that were
> observed on the Apple IIc and IIc+. You can download the new firmware at
> http://www.bigmessowires.com/apple-II-0.1J3-F6.zip
> 
> All Smartport disks should now be detected during the first cold boot on
> the IIc and IIc+. Previously only 1 was detected, and it was necessary to
> do a warm reboot to make the others appear.
> 
> The IIc+ can now use the internal 3.5 inch drive simultaneously with
> external emulated Smartport disks. Previously there was a conflict that
> would cause the machine to hang or report disk errors when trying to use
> them both.
> 
> IIc supports up to four Smartport disks. IIc+ supports up to three
> Smartport disks. 
> 
> There may still be some intermittent cold boot problems with the IIc+ with
> this new firmware - I suspect a timing related glitch that pops up
> occasionally during bootup on the IIc+ for reasons I can't identify. If
> you
> try this on a IIc+, please let me know how it goes!
>

SWEET !!!!
That's what I was waiting to hear :-)
Steve, I have a 2c+ and I will be purchasing one of your units once I'm home
from holidays.

Keep up the great work !
Jason

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#25205

Thanks for the kind words on the Floppy Emu!

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-7, Hugh Hood wrote:
> There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
> default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
> a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
> (unless I wanted to change the image, of course).

This shouldn't be too difficult to implement. Are you talking about 5.25 or 3.5 inch floppy emulation, and not Smartport? As noted elsewhere, the Smartport volume names are hard-coded (smart0, smart1, smart2, smart3) so there's nothing that needs to be selected.

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 12:54:34 PM UTC-7, vengefultacos wrote:
> I got mine a few days ago, and attached it to my original //c. 
> ...
> Trying to boot 5.25" DSK images 
> didn't work, as Steve's web site indicated. I'd need his (unreleased as 
> of yet) plug adapter to get that to work. Definitely would be nice to be 
> able to play old floppy-based games.

This is a limitation of the //c unfortunately, and the upcoming universal adapter won't change it. The issue is that any 5.25 drive connected to the //c's external DB19 port will be slot 6, drive 2, but the //c can only boot from slot 6, drive 1. You'd see the same behavior if you connected a real 5.25 inch drive. The only work-around is to open the //c's case, and attach the Floppy Emu to the logic board, replacing the internal 5.25 inch drive. In the future, I'll see if it's possible to design some kind of special //c adapter that brings the internal drive cable outside, and turns it into drive 2, so the Emu can be drive 1.

> On the downside, it looks like the filenames for the 
> smartport devices are hard coded (i.e. you must have the first smartport 
> disk image named SMART0.2MG (or .PO or .HDV). The UNISDISK lets you get 
> to choose your smartport disk images (although not on the fly, I believe 
> you have to reboot to have it take effect). However, I haven't found 
> myself swapping the hard disk images that much on the UNISDISK, so this 
> isn't huge.

I could probably change this too, if it's useful. How would you see that work exactly? Some kind of menu system to select the disk image filenames one at a time for Smartport drives 0 through 3, and then reboot, and then the computer starts up? I try to learn towards KISS design on stuff like this, and I didn't expect that people would frequently be changing hard disk images, but I can work on a menu system for it if it's becoming a headache.

> The //c recognizes two smartport hard disks (even though I have four on 
> disk). I think this is a limitation of the //c.
> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees 
> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it. 

I'll take a look at that - might be a bug on my end. I noticed something similar in my own //c testing, but I thought it might be my method of testing. I was able to verify that the //c does make four separate STATUS queries to the Emu when it boots up, for each of the four emulated Smartport disks, so I'm not sure why all four don't get mounted consistently on the //c. If I can put together an easily reproducible test case for the //c, then I can probably figure it out.

> I believe Steve says that the Floppyemu should be daisy-chainable off of 
> other drives. I tried this by hooking it up to my Unidisk, but it fails 
> to boot, and the //c gives me a "Check Drive" message.

The behavior depends on what type of drive you've set the Emu set to emulate, and you need to observe the normal rule that 3.5 inch drives come first in the chain, Smartport second, and 5.25 inch last. From my own testing on a IIGS, if the Emu is configured as a Smartport drive and is daisy-chained off an Apple 3.5 Drive, you won't be able to boot from it but you can still access it after booting from another disk. I'm assuming this is because when it's daisy-chained as a Smartport disk, it will be assigned as slot 5, disk 2, and the Apple II can only boot from disk 1. When configured as a 5.25 inch drive, it will be assigned as slot 6, drive 1 on a IIGS, and you can boot from it even when it's daisy chained. 

If anyone has other feedback or suggestions, please let me know!

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#25206

Steve,

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our comments on your Floppy Emu. It
appears that you've built a nice little product!

> 
> On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-7, Hugh Hood wrote:
>> There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
>> default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
>> a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
>> (unless I wanted to change the image, of course).
> 
> This shouldn't be too difficult to implement. Are you talking about 5.25 or
> 3.5 inch floppy emulation, and not Smartport? As noted elsewhere, the
> Smartport volume names are hard-coded (smart0, smart1, smart2, smart3) so
> there's nothing that needs to be selected.
> 

All is good. Gary clarified for me that when the Floppy Emu is in Smartport
mode, that the image need not be selected first, and that 'smart0' will boot
the machine on power up. So, for my needs, I'd say not to worry about my
suggestion, as that will work great. Some of the guys using the 3.5 / 5.25
modes will probably disagree, however, and may like the option to select a
default image.


>> 
>> The //c recognizes two smartport hard disks (even though I have four on
>> disk). I think this is a limitation of the //c.
>> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees
>> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it.
>>
> 
> I'll take a look at that - might be a bug on my end. I noticed something
> similar in my own //c testing, but I thought it might be my method of testing.
> I was able to verify that the //c does make four separate STATUS queries
> to the Emu when it boots up, for each of the four emulated Smartport disks, so
> I'm not sure why all four don't get mounted consistently on the //c. If I can
> put together an easily reproducible test case for the //c, then I can probably
> figure it out.
> 


I would request that all (4) of the Smartport hard disks that the Floppy Emu
offers be recognized on initial cold boot on a IIc and IIc+, and that they
continue to be recognized even after a warm re-boot.

Finally, Gary offered this report on the IIc+ :

> 
> I hooked it up the to //c+ to see what would happen. Booting it on the
> //c+ is actually worse: on power on, the //c+ reports that there are no
> bootable volumes online. Pressing Ctrl+OA+Reset gets it to boot off of
> the first smartport drive. However, it does not recognize the other
> smartport drive images at all. It looks like it only tries to assign
> disks to slot 5. Since slot 5 on the //c+ already has the internal 3.5"
> drive on it, I'm guessing it does not know how to assign the disk to
> another slot.
> 

Again, ensuring that all (4) Smartport drives show up, first time - every
time, (particularly on a IIc+) would be most welcome.


> 
> If anyone has other feedback or suggestions, please let me know!
>


That's a dangerous pitch - right over the plate. :-)

Forgive my requesting a feature or two found on 'Brand X', but would it be
possible to implement a real time clock on the Floppy Emu that ProDOS could
use? Of course, the IIGS doesn't need it, but the IIc and IIc+ sure could.

Also, it might be nice to offer a menu-driven ProDOS program running on the
Apple II that would allow one to change the drive images selected.

Again, a very dangerous pitch.

Thanks for considering these things, but regardless, I hope the Floppy Emu
turns out to be fantastically successful for you.






Hugh Hood

 

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#25208

Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Steve,
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to respond to our comments on your Floppy Emu. It
> appears that you've built a nice little product!
> 
>> 
>> On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-7, Hugh Hood wrote:
>>> There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
>>> default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
>>> a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
>>> (unless I wanted to change the image, of course).
>> 
>> This shouldn't be too difficult to implement. Are you talking about 5.25 or
>> 3.5 inch floppy emulation, and not Smartport? As noted elsewhere, the
>> Smartport volume names are hard-coded (smart0, smart1, smart2, smart3) so
>> there's nothing that needs to be selected.
>> 
> 
> All is good. Gary clarified for me that when the Floppy Emu is in Smartport
> mode, that the image need not be selected first, and that 'smart0' will boot
> the machine on power up. So, for my needs, I'd say not to worry about my
> suggestion, as that will work great. Some of the guys using the 3.5 / 5.25
> modes will probably disagree, however, and may like the option to select a
> default image.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> The //c recognizes two smartport hard disks (even though I have four on
>>> disk). I think this is a limitation of the //c.
>>> One odd issue I've encountered: after initial power on,  //c only sees
>>> the first smartport drive. It recognizes both drives after reboot it.
>>> 
>> 
>> I'll take a look at that - might be a bug on my end. I noticed something
>> similar in my own //c testing, but I thought it might be my method of testing.
>> I was able to verify that the //c does make four separate STATUS queries
>> to the Emu when it boots up, for each of the four emulated Smartport disks, so
>> I'm not sure why all four don't get mounted consistently on the //c. If I can
>> put together an easily reproducible test case for the //c, then I can probably
>> figure it out.
>> 
> 
> 
> I would request that all (4) of the Smartport hard disks that the Floppy Emu
> offers be recognized on initial cold boot on a IIc and IIc+, and that they
> continue to be recognized even after a warm re-boot.
> 
> Finally, Gary offered this report on the IIc+ :
> 
>> 
>> I hooked it up the to //c+ to see what would happen. Booting it on the
>> //c+ is actually worse: on power on, the //c+ reports that there are no
>> bootable volumes online. Pressing Ctrl+OA+Reset gets it to boot off of
>> the first smartport drive. However, it does not recognize the other
>> smartport drive images at all. It looks like it only tries to assign
>> disks to slot 5. Since slot 5 on the //c+ already has the internal 3.5"
>> drive on it, I'm guessing it does not know how to assign the disk to
>> another slot.
>> 
> 
> Again, ensuring that all (4) Smartport drives show up, first time - every
> time, (particularly on a IIc+) would be most welcome.
> 
> 
>> 
>> If anyone has other feedback or suggestions, please let me know!
>> 
> 
> 
> That's a dangerous pitch - right over the plate. :-)
> 
> Forgive my requesting a feature or two found on 'Brand X', but would it be
> possible to implement a real time clock on the Floppy Emu that ProDOS could
> use? Of course, the IIGS doesn't need it, but the IIc and IIc+ sure could.
> 
> Also, it might be nice to offer a menu-driven ProDOS program running on the
> Apple II that would allow one to change the drive images selected.
> 
> Again, a very dangerous pitch.
> 
> Thanks for considering these things, but regardless, I hope the Floppy Emu
> turns out to be fantastically successful for you.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hugh Hood

The failure of the IIc+ to recognize the smart port drives on cold boot is
almost certainly the result of the IIc+ getting through its slot scan
before the Floppy Emu has initialized after power on. 
-- 
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II: http://home.comcast.net/~mjmahon

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#25210

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 7:51:11 AM UTC-7, Hugh Hood wrote:
> Forgive my requesting a feature or two found on 'Brand X', but would it be
> possible to implement a real time clock on the Floppy Emu that ProDOS could
> use? Of course, the IIGS doesn't need it, but the IIc and IIc+ sure could.

Unfortunately not, as there's no battery to maintain time when the power is off. I'm not sure the IIc/IIc+ would expect to get time info from a disk drive anyway? 

> Also, it might be nice to offer a menu-driven ProDOS program running on the
> Apple II that would allow one to change the drive images selected.

Yes, this is on my "would be nice" list, but is beyond my Apple II development skill at the moment. Hopefully someday.

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 1:32:47 PM UTC-7, Michael J. Mahon wrote:
> The failure of the IIc+ to recognize the smart port drives on cold boot is
> almost certainly the result of the IIc+ getting through its slot scan
> before the Floppy Emu has initialized after power on. 

I agree. I had to do some optimization to make it initialize fast enough for the IIGS, and perhaps the IIc+ has timing requirements that are even more demanding. I'll see if I can optimize it further. However, Gary reported that after Ctrl+OA+Reset the IIc+ still only recognized the first Smartport drive, so that doesn't seem like an initialization issue. Hmmm...

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#25211

> If anyone has other feedback or suggestions, please let me know! 

I would prefer to use my own smartport drive filenames and be able to select them from a menu. Perhaps this can be implemented as available only when there are no files with the expected names.

The clock option could be done by emulating the No Slot Clock which looks for a tickle sequence of bytes in a ROM location. That would need a (replacable) battery to keep the time.

Is there a way to daisy-chain a drive (or another Floppy Emu) off the back?
E.g. when emulating a 3.5", a 5.25" (or Emu in 5.25" mode) could also be used.

I watched your video and I'm not sure why an adapter is necessary to emulate the 3.5". Have you elaborated on that somewhere?

Can you provide 3.5" 1.44MB drive emulation as an option for those with the cards necessary to use those drives?

Regards,
Andrew

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#25213

On 7/7/2015 9:49 PM, roughana wrote:
> I watched your video and I'm not sure why an adapter is necessary to emulate the 3.5". Have you elaborated on that somewhere?

Its to properly simulate the daisy chain board found in Apple 3.5" drives.

<http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/25/rom-03-revisited/>

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#25217

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 6:49:53 PM UTC-7, roughana wrote:
> Is there a way to daisy-chain a drive (or another Floppy Emu) off the back?
> E.g. when emulating a 3.5", a 5.25" (or Emu in 5.25" mode) could also be used.

Since the hardware was originally designed for the Macintosh, it doesn't have a daisy chain output, and it will always be the last device in your disk chain. If you need more drives, there are some work-arounds, like adding a second drive controller card to your Apple II or stealing the daisy chain board out of an Apple 3.5 Drive.

> I watched your video and I'm not sure why an adapter is necessary to emulate the 3.5". Have you elaborated on that somewhere?

The (upcoming) universal adapter isn't needed for Smartport hard disk emulation. For 3.5 inch Apple II disks, it improves the handling of one of the enable signals from the IIGS (and IIc+ and supported 3rd party cards). 3.5 inch emulation still works on some setups without the adapter (see BMOW web site for details), but to keep things simple I'm recommending the adapter for everyone who needs 3.5 inch Apple II emulation. The adapter also fixes an issue with writing to 5.25 inch disks that's specific to the II+ and IIe, and adds some protection resistors for good measure.

> Can you provide 3.5" 1.44MB drive emulation as an option for those with the cards necessary to use those drives?

Not easily in the same Apple II firmware, because there's not enough logic resources in the CPLD to handle 5.25, 3.5 800K, 3.5 1440K, and Smartport with a single CPLD configuration. Using the existing Macintosh firmware might just work - I don't have the hardware to confirm that though. There's also an older version of the Apple II firmware from before I implemented Smartport, which had 5.25, 3.5 800K, and 3.5 1440K in one firmware.

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#25228

On 07/08/2015 01:17 PM, Steve Chamberlin wrote:

>> Can you provide 3.5" 1.44MB drive emulation as an option for those with
>> the cards necessary to use those drives?

> Not easily in the same Apple II firmware, because there's not enough logic
> resources in the CPLD to handle 5.25, 3.5 800K, 3.5 1440K, and Smartport
> with a single CPLD configuration. Using the existing Macintosh firmware
> might just work - I don't have the hardware to confirm that though. There's
> also an older version of the Apple II firmware from before I implemented
> Smartport, which had 5.25, 3.5 800K, and 3.5 1440K in one firmware.

Is this older version still available for download?

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#25230

On Wednesday, July 8, 2015 at 6:53:56 PM UTC-7, Steven Hirsch wrote:
> On 07/08/2015 01:17 PM, Steve Chamberlin wrote:
> 
> >> Can you provide 3.5" 1.44MB drive emulation as an option for those with
> >> the cards necessary to use those drives?
> 
> > Not easily in the same Apple II firmware, because there's not enough logic
> > resources in the CPLD to handle 5.25, 3.5 800K, 3.5 1440K, and Smartport
> > with a single CPLD configuration. Using the existing Macintosh firmware
> > might just work - I don't have the hardware to confirm that though. There's
> > also an older version of the Apple II firmware from before I implemented
> > Smartport, which had 5.25, 3.5 800K, and 3.5 1440K in one firmware.
> 
> Is this older version still available for download?

The last pre-Smartport version of the Apple II firmware was http://www.bigmessowires.com/apple-II-0.1D-F3.zip . That contained 1440K disk support held over from the Macintosh version, but I can't say for certain whether it would also work for 1440K disks on the Apple II. If you try it, I'd be curious to know what you find.

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#25361

Here is my 2cents on the floppy emu.

computer: rom 3 //c with 1mb ram (z-ram u3) no 5.25 floppy connected
internally
connection type: smartport 19db connection.
firmare: latest as of Jul 7/15.

Assembly:

The assembly of the enclosure wasnt that bad, the assembly instructions was
easy to follow and very precise. The only hard part was assembling the 4
sides and then getting the elastic band around them without having a side
fall down.  After that was complete the unit looks very professional.

Useage:

What i have noticed with the device is that when connected at the smartport
connection, i cannot get 3.5 or 5.25 to run any dsk images at all.  Cold
boot or pr#5 or pr#6 at prompt always comes up with 'Check disk drive'. 
When i change the device to smartport mode, it will work but only if i pr#5
at prompt.  Cold booting will not automatically load the image.  For me to
get 5.25 floppy mode to work i would have to physically connect the device
to the 20 pin internal connector to get any of my 140kb images to run.  Cold
booting with this connection does not load the image i selected prior to
turning the computer off. I would have to select the 10kb image, then pr#6
to it to load.  Has anybody have similar results with the new firmware?
should i go back to the original apple II firmware?  or am i doing something
wrong?  Any help on this will be appreciated, thanks.

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#25362

Hi RJ,

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-7, RJ wrote:
> What i have noticed with the device is that when connected at the smartport
> connection, i cannot get 3.5 or 5.25 to run any dsk images at all.  Cold
> boot or pr#5 or pr#6 at prompt always comes up with 'Check disk drive'. 
...
> For me to
> get 5.25 floppy mode to work i would have to physically connect the device
> to the 20 pin internal connector to get any of my 140kb images to run.  

The Floppy Emu is like a real external drive, with the same capabilities and limitations. The Apple //c doesn't support 3.5 inch disk drives at all, so you won't be able to use 3.5 inch disk images on your //c. The //c also has the internal 5.25 inch drive configured as drive 0 and any externally-connected 5.25 inch drive as drive 1. The //c is only able to boot from drive 0, so when you do PR#6 it will check your internal 5.25 inch drive, not the Floppy Emu. You can boot from a floppy in the internal drive, and then use the Floppy Emu as a second non-boot disk. Or you can connect the Floppy Emu to the internal logic board connector as you did, which turns it into drive 0, making it able to boot the //c.

> Cold
> booting with this connection does not load the image i selected prior to
> turning the computer off. I would have to select the 10kb image, then pr#6
> to it to load.

The Emu's currently-inserted disk isn't remembered when the power is turned off - each time you power-on, you'll get a menu for selecting which disk to use. This was discussed a little while ago on my blog, and most people seemed to agree with the keep-it-simple approach, but you're not the first person to request that feature, so I may look into adding it. Instead of doing PR#6, I find it's easier to select the desired disk image from the menu, and then press CTRL+APPLE+POWER to reset the //c.

> When i change the device to smartport mode, it will work but only if i pr#5
> at prompt.  Cold booting will not automatically load the image.    Has anybody have similar results with the new firmware?
> should i go back to the original apple II firmware?  

That sounds like a bug. Can you confirm which version of the firmware you're running - it will show the version number on the LCD briefly after a reset or power-up. Was it working better for you in a previous firmware, and the latest version broke it? I can send you some test firmwares with alternate boot timings if you'd like to try them. On the //c systems I've tested with, it will mount and boot 4 smartport disks immediately upon a cold boot. If you do need to do a warm reboot, as with the floppy I find it's more convenient to press CTRL+APPLE+POWER than to enter BASIC and type PR#5.

The current version of the Apple II firmware is 0.1J3-F6. If you want to try to previous version 0.1J-F6, you can download it here: http://www.bigmessowires.com/apple-II-0.1J-F6.zip

Steve

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