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FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation

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  FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation pitz <pitz.wong@gmail.com> - 2015-04-06 12:56 -0700
    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Bill Garber" <willy46pa@comcast.net> - 2015-04-06 17:55 -0400
    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-02 20:56 -0500
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 09:17 -0400
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Gary Gray <vengefultacos@gmail.com> - 2015-07-03 15:54 -0400
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-04 11:01 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Gary Gray <vengefultacos@gmail.com> - 2015-07-04 17:25 -0400
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-13 14:16 -0700
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-13 22:36 +0000
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-06 17:06 -0700
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-07 09:51 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2015-07-07 15:32 -0500
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-07 16:45 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation roughana <andrew.roughan@writeme.com> - 2015-07-07 18:49 -0700
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Christopher G. Mason" <cgm1@my-deja.com> - 2015-07-07 23:19 -0400
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 10:17 -0700
                Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steven Hirsch <snhirsch@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 21:53 -0400
                  Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 20:29 -0700
                    Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation RJ <moddkid@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 11:31 +0000
                      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 07:20 -0700
                      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-20 09:26 -0700
                        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation RJ <moddkid@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 11:46 +0000
                          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Steve Chamberlin <steve.chamberlin@gmail.com> - 2015-07-21 08:36 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation "Christopher G. Mason" <cgm1@my-deja.com> - 2015-07-07 23:16 -0400
              Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation mdj <mdj.mdj@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 05:43 -0700
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-08 15:57 +0000
          Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Sean Fahey <a2fan@hotmail.com> - 2015-07-08 09:12 -0700
            Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Hugh Hood <hughhood@earthlink.net> - 2015-07-09 09:00 -0500
      Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation Warren Ernst <wernst@gmail.com> - 2015-07-08 10:34 -0700
        Re: FloppyEmu now supports 800K disk emulation TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-07-08 17:56 +0000

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#25364

On Monday, July 20, 2015 at 4:33:20 AM UTC-7, RJ wrote:
> computer: rom 3 //c with 1mb ram (z-ram u3) no 5.25 floppy connected
> internally
...
> When i change the device to smartport mode, it will work but only if i pr#5
> at prompt.  Cold booting will not automatically load the image.

I was able to reproduce your problem by disconnecting my //c's internal 5.25 drive as you did. From my test, the //c will not boot at all if the internal 5.25 drive is disconnected - instead of the "check disk drive" message, it just hangs forever. Please try reconnecting your internal 5.25 inch drive, and then you should be able to cold boot Smartport disks with the Floppy Emu.

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#25369

Hello Steve,

Thanks for the feedback, and now understand more on the limitations this
device has for the iic system.  That being said, it is definitely a great
unit to have for the iic and like what others have said, its in the same
league as the CFFA3000.  

I would love to try the alternative timings firmware.  It would be selfish
for me to request them in email, but rather be best if you could put them up
on your website so others like me can freely try them out and give your more
feedback/recommendations and possibly further tweak them for optimium use on
the iic system.  I think it is timing, if there is a delay in accessing
drive 0, then the smartport boot will definitely work.  Thanks again for a
great unit.

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#25371

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 4:48:08 AM UTC-7, RJ wrote:
> I would love to try the alternative timings firmware. 

You can try the 0.1J-F6 that I linked from my previous post, which has different timings from 1.0J3-F6. But after looking at it further, your problem cold-booting Smartport disks is due to having your internal 5.25 inch drive disconnected. The //c doesn't even attempt to cold-boot Smartport if the internal 5.25 drive is not connected, because it checks the 5.25 inch drive first. So whatever timing changes I might make in the Floppy Emu firmware won't affect that. If possible, could you try re-connecting your internal 5.25 inch drive to verify that it resolves the cold-boot problem you saw? Thanks!

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#25212

On 7/7/2015 7:45 PM, Steve Chamberlin wrote:
> Unfortunately not, as there's no battery to maintain time when the power is off. I'm not sure the IIc/IIc+ would expect to get time info from a disk drive anyway?

The Smartport protocol supports character based devices. Clock support 
would be implemented that way.

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#25214

On Wednesday, 8 July 2015 13:16:52 UTC+10, Christopher G. Mason  wrote:
> On 7/7/2015 7:45 PM, Steve Chamberlin wrote:
> > Unfortunately not, as there's no battery to maintain time when the power is off. I'm not sure the IIc/IIc+ would expect to get time info from a disk drive anyway?
> 
> The Smartport protocol supports character based devices. Clock support 
> would be implemented that way.

That seems like the only practical way to do it. On the IIc (and perhaps the Liron card as well) you can even trigger an interrupt. There ought to be sufficient room to load a clock driver in ProDOS that issues a SmartPort character read.

Regarding the ProDOS "menu" program, it would be possible to use the character device interface to implement this with the Apple II side being nothing more than a trivial terminal - all the 'hard work' could then be done on the FloppyEmu side.

NB - I never did figure out what the point of the SmartPort character interface actually was ... It would provide approximately twice the bandwidth of the effective limit of a 6551 (That the IIc already has two of). Perhaps this is what the never-completed AppleTalk firmware was supposed to use. Did prototype IIc AppleTalk adapters ever make it out of Cupertino ?

Matt

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#25215

> 
> Forgive my requesting a feature or two found on 'Brand X', but would it be
> possible to implement a real time clock on the Floppy Emu that ProDOS
> could
> use? Of course, the IIGS doesn't need it, but the IIc and IIc+ sure could.
> 
> Also, it might be nice to offer a menu-driven ProDOS program running on
> the
> Apple II that would allow one to change the drive images selected.
> 
> Again, a very dangerous pitch.
> 
> Thanks for considering these things, but regardless, I hope the Floppy Emu
> turns out to be fantastically successful for you.
> 
> 
You could, of course, just add a No Slot Clock to your system(s).
It already exists and has ProDOS drivers.
Just a thought.

TheJ

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#25216

On Tuesday, July 7, 2015 at 9:51:11 AM UTC-5, Hugh Hood wrote:
 
> Forgive my requesting a feature or two found on 'Brand X', but would it be
> possible to implement a real time clock on the Floppy Emu that ProDOS could
> use? Of course, the IIGS doesn't need it, but the IIc and IIc+ sure could.

Hugh, see:

http://a2central.com/6193/ultimateapple2-and-reactivemicro-refine-the-no-slot-clock/

and

https://www.ultimateapple2.com/catalogzen154/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_15&products_id=70

It's kinda pricey but it's the last clock you'll need for the IIc family.

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#25235

Sean,

> 
> https://www.ultimateapple2.com/catalogzen154/index.php?main_page=product_info&
> cPath=1_15&products_id=70

> 
> It's kinda pricey but it's the last clock you'll need for the IIc family.
>

You're right, of course -- on both counts. :-)

I'll confess that sometimes I'm a bit lazy. I last opened the case on my
IIc+ 20 years ago to install a Sequential 1 Meg Ram Card, and was trying to
avoid opening the case again. Lazy, I know. Guilty.





Hugh Hood
  

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#25218

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 6:56:38 PM UTC-7, Hugh Hood wrote:
> <http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/macintosh-floppy-emu/>
> 
> Has anyone yet benchmarked the read/write times for the FloppyEmu when used
> with an Apple IIc, IIc+, or IIGS? I would imagine that the SmartPort
> interface sets the throughput ceiling, but it would be nice if overall
> performance for the device at least came close to touching that ceiling.
> 
> Like many here, I had been hoping for Cédric's SPVHD to make it to market,
> but this product, particularly with the case and extension cable, looks like
> it has potential, particularly when used with a IIc/IIc+.
> 
> There is one thing that I do wish Steve would change -- allow selection of a
> default image that would 'stick' after power down. I'd like to hook it up to
> a IIc+ with a 32MB boot image on the SD card and not have to select anything
> (unless I wanted to change the image, of course).
> 
> If you've got a FloppyEmu, please share your impressions. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hugh Hood
> 
>    
> 
> 
> in article 4e0d959b-d2c4-4b49-8451-a68bc9bda90a@googlegroups.com, pitz at
> pitz.wong@gmail.com wrote on 4/6/15 2:56 PM:
> 
> > Good news for those following the FloppyEmu device.  Steve has finally got
> > ProDos 800K disk emulation going, and it's just a firmware update for those
> > who already have used it for their older Macs.
> > 
> > http://www.bigmessowires.com/2015/04/01/apple-ii-800k-3-5-disk-emulation/
> > 
> > Support for 5.25" disk emulation and SmartPort block devices are also already
> > in the works.
> > 
> > /pitz

So I have some Floppy Emu benchmarks on an accelerated GS and a CFFA2:

CFFA2 Start GS/OS: 20 seconds
CFFA Starts AppleWorks with lots of Timeout: 6 seconds

Floppy Emu Start GS/OS: 1min 8secs
Floppy Emu Start AppleWorks with lots of Timeout: 15 seconds

That said, I got this primarily for my IIc+, and I really like it. It boots to ProSel 8 in about a second, and AppleWorks with lots of TimeOut modules in under 10. 

I consider the speed quite good overall - more than enough for 8-bit machines, and you know, though GS/OS takes significantly longer to boot than a CFFA, I bet once running, GS/OS is still pleasant to use (I need to try living with it for a while), certainly moreso than the ol' Floppy Shuffle, and it's probably comparable to the slow hard disks of the era.

(copied and pasted from a few posts of mine on the FB Apple II group)

-Warr

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#25219

> So I have some Floppy Emu benchmarks on an accelerated GS and a CFFA2:
> 
> CFFA2 Start GS/OS: 20 seconds
> CFFA Starts AppleWorks with lots of Timeout: 6 seconds
> 
> Floppy Emu Start GS/OS: 1min 8secs
> Floppy Emu Start AppleWorks with lots of Timeout: 15 seconds
> 
> That said, I got this primarily for my IIc+, and I really like it. It
> boots
> to ProSel 8 in about a second, and AppleWorks with lots of TimeOut modules
> in under 10. 
> 
> I consider the speed quite good overall - more than enough for 8-bit
> machines, and you know, though GS/OS takes significantly longer to boot
> than a CFFA, I bet once running, GS/OS is still pleasant to use (I need to
> try living with it for a while), certainly moreso than the ol' Floppy
> Shuffle, and it's probably comparable to the slow hard disks of the era.
> 
> (copied and pasted from a few posts of mine on the FB Apple II group)
> 
> -Warr
>

What are the bandwidth limits of the Smartport?
TheJ

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