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Re: Briel Computing

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  Re: Briel Computing oldjohnman@gmail.com - 2015-06-02 08:19 -0700
    Re: Briel Computing Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-06-02 13:28 -0400
      Re: Briel Computing David Jones <djones60@gmail.com> - 2015-06-02 13:19 -0700
        Re: Briel Computing Alexander K <macdude22spam@me.com> - 2015-06-05 09:23 -0500
      Re: Briel Computing oldjohnman@gmail.com - 2015-06-02 13:51 -0700
        Re: Briel Computing mwillegal <mike@willegal.net> - 2015-06-03 15:14 -0700
          Re: Briel Computing Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2015-06-03 20:29 -0400

#24980 — Re: Briel Computing

If people want to take peoples money and then have unreasonable delays and/or non-delivery of product they should use Kickstarter like everyone else. :-)

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#24981

On Tue, 2 Jun 2015, oldjohnman@gmail.com wrote:

> If people want to take peoples money and then have unreasonable delays 
> and/or non-delivery of product they should use Kickstarter like everyone 
> else. :-)
>
>
The only good thing about Kickstarter is that if they dont' get enough 
money to go through, the money isnt' actually taken.  Or something like 
that.  So it's a conditional thing, only if they get enough people does 
your "investment" go through, as opposed to a more traditional fundraising 
method where they just hope to reach a target (but that fundraising may be 
a more vague target).

But I've read that some projects that get enough money have problems 
coming to fruition.

   Michael

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#24983

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:26:36 PM UTC-4, Michael Black wrote:

> 
> > If people want to take peoples money and then have unreasonable delays 
> > and/or non-delivery of product they should use Kickstarter like everyone 
> > else. :-)
> >
> >
> The only good thing about Kickstarter is that if they dont' get enough 
> money to go through, the money isnt' actually taken.  Or something like 
> that.  So it's a conditional thing, only if they get enough people does 
> your "investment" go through, as opposed to a more traditional fundraising 
> method where they just hope to reach a target (but that fundraising may be 
> a more vague target).
> 
> But I've read that some projects that get enough money have problems 
> coming to fruition.
> 
>    Michael

True, I backed a 3d printer campaign and it went belly up.  All the backers lost their money.  Well other than a handful than managed to get a box of parts.  Long story but check out Phoeix 3d.  The worst part was they were using our money to build printers to ship to retail customers and blew off the backers.

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#25022

On Jun 2, 2015, David Jones wrote
(in article<4fb8b10d-c8e9-4ab3-a0b8-b7bebe192c3c@googlegroups.com>):

> On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:26:36 PM UTC-4, Michael Black wrote:
> 
> > 
> > > If people want to take peoples money and then have unreasonable delays
> > > and/or non-delivery of product they should use Kickstarter like everyone
> > > else. :-)
> > The only good thing about Kickstarter is that if they dont' get enough
> > money to go through, the money isnt' actually taken. Or something like
> > that. So it's a conditional thing, only if they get enough people does
> > your "investment" go through, as opposed to a more traditional fundraising
> > method where they just hope to reach a target (but that fundraising may be
> > a more vague target).
> > 
> > But I've read that some projects that get enough money have problems
> > coming to fruition.
> > 
> > Michael
> 
> True, I backed a 3d printer campaign and it went belly up. All the backers
> lost their money. Well other than a handful than managed to get a box of
> parts. Long story but check out Phoeix 3d. The worst part was they were using
> our money to build printers to ship to retail customers and blew off the
> backers.

I have often viewed kickstarter as patronage, its not really an investment 
since if the company wildly succeeds you don’t really get anything 
additional out of it (other than your backer rewards). Increasingly many kick 
starter projects are simply to gauge public interested such that the 
“creators” can garner real investment from publishers, venture 
capitalists, retailers, etc…. Your not going to produce x product or y game 
for 250K. You’ve got some deals on the back end with investors, well if you 
can get 5,000 to back this project we’ll invest 500k, etc… I’m 
struggling with this new kickstarter economy. I’m happy to kickstart 
something like this dice vault

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/754081504/the-dice-vault-a-handcrafted-
wooden-case-for-gamin

where its a small outfit, have a product, just need some upfront funding to 
produce and ship it. I’m less excited to suddenly be paying for the 
privilege of being market research. This is what publishers, manufactures, 
designers, etc.. used to pay buko bucks to do. You used to get paid (or at 
least get free product) to be market research, now people are ponying up 
sometimes thousands of dollars just to be market research. No thanks. A few 
years ago I was more free flowing with my kickstarter backings but now it has 
to be something special to get me to bite.

-alex-

--
"...he will be successful who directs his actions according to the spirit of 
the times, and that he whose actions do not accord with the times will not be 
successful."
-- Niccolo Machiavelli, The Prince

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#24984

On Tuesday, June 2, 2015 at 1:26:36 PM UTC-4, Michael Black wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jun 2015, oldjohnman@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > If people want to take peoples money and then have unreasonable delays 
> > and/or non-delivery of product they should use Kickstarter like everyone 
> > else. :-)
> >
> >
> The only good thing about Kickstarter is that if they dont' get enough 
> money to go through, the money isnt' actually taken.  Or something like 
> that.  So it's a conditional thing, only if they get enough people does 
> your "investment" go through, as opposed to a more traditional fundraising 
> method where they just hope to reach a target (but that fundraising may be 
> a more vague target).
> 
> But I've read that some projects that get enough money have problems 
> coming to fruition.
> 
>    Michael

Good point.  The thing I'm getting at is that Kickstarter is an investment it's not a store.  Sometimes investments payoff, sometimes they don't.  However when someone sells something I expect that they've figured out some things about capacity/supply/scaling etc.  So if people don't want to think about those things then they are better off telling people that they are gambling.  Which is sort of what Kickstarter does IMHO.

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#25007

As far as I can tell, kickstarter is a store that pretends to be an investment vehicle.     In the end, at best, your "investment" only returns a product, not a profit.


regards,
Mike Willegal

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#25009

On Wed, 3 Jun 2015, mwillegal wrote:

> As far as I can tell, kickstarter is a store that pretends to be an 
> investment vehicle.  In the end, at best, your "investment" only returns 
> a product, not a profit.
>
>
There does seem to be that aspect to it.  Maybe not completely, but since 
it's about a specific product, there doesn't seem to be much to keep a 
company in business other than that specific product.  It does seem about 
limited production runs, get the money upfront, and then build.  I'd 
prefer to see it having longer lasting appeal, which of course requires 
products that are not specialty items.

On the other hand, the guy who couldn't get his boards off the boat (or 
whatever that problem was), he got the funding ahead of time (but without 
Kickstarter I think), then stalled in the delivery.  It is one thing to 
build a board yourself for your own use, and make something that not only 
can be produced in quantity, but all the other things that go with that 
shift to a business.

   Michael

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