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PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release

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  PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-12 17:06 -0800
    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-12 19:48 -0800
      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-12 20:25 -0800
        Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-13 09:11 -0800
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2019-12-13 13:40 -0500
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-13 12:47 -0800
            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-13 14:07 -0800
              Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-13 18:01 -0800
                Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2019-12-14 10:10 -0800
                  Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-14 11:49 -0800
                    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2019-12-14 20:55 -0800
                      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release Robert Justice <j.robert.justice@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 02:52 -0800
                        Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-16 08:09 -0800
                          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 10:45 -0800
                            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release Robert Justice <j.robert.justice@gmail.com> - 2019-12-16 12:23 -0800
                            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-16 19:55 -0800
                  Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2019-12-14 11:53 -0800
    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2019-12-13 13:46 +0000
      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-13 07:04 -0800
    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-17 06:56 -0800
      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-17 07:00 -0800
        Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release Robert Justice <j.robert.justice@gmail.com> - 2019-12-19 12:58 -0800
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2019-12-19 16:00 -0800
            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release Robert Justice <j.robert.justice@gmail.com> - 2019-12-19 19:27 -0800
    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-11 07:53 -0800
      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-12 17:21 -0800
        Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2020-01-13 09:30 -0500
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release Robert Justice <j.robert.justice@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 15:08 -0800
            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-13 16:51 -0800
              Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2020-01-14 09:59 -0500
                Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-14 10:03 -0800
    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-14 23:53 -0800
      Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-15 07:00 -0800
        Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-15 08:26 -0800
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-15 08:31 -0800
            Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-15 13:07 -0800
              Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-15 13:54 -0800
                Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-15 19:30 -0800
                Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-15 19:32 -0800
                  Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release "Frank M." <frank_o_rama@hotmail.com> - 2020-01-19 07:48 -0800
                    Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-19 07:58 -0800
          Re: PLASMA 2.0 Developer Release David Schmenk <dschmenk@gmail.com> - 2020-01-15 13:06 -0800

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#5329

On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 06:56:36 UTC-8, David Schmenk  wrote:
> Well, now that there are some top Apple /// developers looking, I'm looking for a little help on the module that launches other SOS.INTERP files. The idea is to be able to run any Apple /// program from the PLASMA command line. The SOS module tries to establish an environment that looks like it just booted and loaded the SOS.INTERP file. However, I must be missing something. The only SOS.INTERP file I have successfully run is Pascal. All the others lock up. Anyone want to take a crack at it?

And now with a link to the module source:
https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/blob/master/src/libsrc/apple/sos.pla

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#5330

On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 2:00:07 AM UTC+11, David Schmenk wrote:
> On Tuesday, 17 December 2019 06:56:36 UTC-8, David Schmenk  wrote:
> > Well, now that there are some top Apple /// developers looking, I'm looking for a little help on the module that launches other SOS.INTERP files. The idea is to be able to run any Apple /// program from the PLASMA command line. The SOS module tries to establish an environment that looks like it just booted and loaded the SOS.INTERP file. However, I must be missing something. The only SOS.INTERP file I have successfully run is Pascal. All the others lock up. Anyone want to take a crack at it?
> 
> And now with a link to the module source:
> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/blob/master/src/libsrc/apple/sos.pla

I tried launching a small interpreter and it worked ok. I then tried Business Basic 1.23 and it locked up. It looks like the fwd/rev copy decision is being taken wrongly. When i loaded up business basic it loaded into 22F1, and then did a forward copy to 5200, which wipes over itself :-(

I did a realtime patch in MAME and swapped the bcc to a bcs and added in the clc that you have commented out and it loaded up business basic ok.

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#5331

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 12:58:58 PM UTC-8, Robert Justice wrote:

> I tried launching a small interpreter and it worked ok. I then tried Business Basic 1.23 and it locked up. It looks like the fwd/rev copy decision is being taken wrongly. When i loaded up business basic it loaded into 22F1, and then did a forward copy to 5200, which wipes over itself :-(
> 
> I did a realtime patch in MAME and swapped the bcc to a bcs and added in the clc that you have commented out and it loaded up business basic ok.

Thanks Rob! What a stupid copy/paste error. I actually got the source and destination addresses backwards, which broke the test. Can now launch a few more interpreters - I got Apple Writer /// to run, but many lock up. Making progress

Dave...

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#5332

> Thanks Rob! What a stupid copy/paste error. I actually got the source and destination addresses backwards, which broke the test. Can now launch a few more interpreters - I got Apple Writer /// to run, but many lock up. Making progress
> 
> Dave...

ahh ok. Good that it works for few more now.

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#5352

And now there is a Developer Preview #3 available:
https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/blob/master/doc/Version%202.0.md#changes-in-plasma-for-20-dp-3

The highlights are optimizations to the HiRes graphics library, a shoot'em-up arcade game to show it off, and many fixes to the file manipulation utilities for SOS vs ProDOS differences. This is a huge improvement to the Apple /// experience when it comes to installation and just using the computer as a computer.

Updated Installation Guide:
https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide

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#5353

On Saturday, January 11, 2020 at 7:53:12 AM UTC-8, David Schmenk wrote:
> And now there is a Developer Preview #3 available:
> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/blob/master/doc/Version%202.0.md#changes-in-plasma-for-20-dp-3
> 
> The highlights are optimizations to the HiRes graphics library, a shoot'em-up arcade game to show it off, and many fixes to the file manipulation utilities for SOS vs ProDOS differences. This is a huge improvement to the Apple /// experience when it comes to installation and just using the computer as a computer.
> 
> Updated Installation Guide:
> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide

For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:

I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3

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#5354

On 1/12/20 8:21 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
>> Updated Installation Guide:
>> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide
> 
> For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:
> 
> I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3

I wannabe!  I tried the new hd and boot floppy under MAME/apple3rtr, and 
met with great success.  Thanks!

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#5355

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:30:07 AM UTC+11, schmidtd wrote:
> On 1/12/20 8:21 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
> >> Updated Installation Guide:
> >> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide
> > 
> > For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:
> > 
> > I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
> 
> I wannabe!  I tried the new hd and boot floppy under MAME/apple3rtr, and 
> met with great success.  Thanks!

I had a play with it as well, thanks from me to.

The command line is very nice to work around once i realised how the p and / commands worked. Its also great to have single letter commands to navigate quickly, feels very comfortable. (although i did hit the tab key a few times..)

Is there any built in command to turn on 80 column mode?

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#5356

On Monday, 13 January 2020 15:08:07 UTC-8, Robert Justice  wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:30:07 AM UTC+11, schmidtd wrote:
> > On 1/12/20 8:21 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
> > >> Updated Installation Guide:
> > >> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide
> > > 
> > > For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:
> > > 
> > > I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
> > 
> > I wannabe!  I tried the new hd and boot floppy under MAME/apple3rtr, and 
> > met with great success.  Thanks!
> 
> I had a play with it as well, thanks from me to.
> 
> The command line is very nice to work around once i realised how the p and / commands worked. Its also great to have single letter commands to navigate quickly, feels very comfortable. (although i did hit the tab key a few times..)
> 
> Is there any built in command to turn on 80 column mode?

Thanks Dave and Rob for trying it out. I haven't ventured into 80 column mode yet, mostly due to issues on the Apple II side of things. Working with the least common denominator before getting all fancy with the 80 columns, and such.

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#5357

On 1/13/20 7:51 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
> On Monday, 13 January 2020 15:08:07 UTC-8, Robert Justice  wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:30:07 AM UTC+11, schmidtd wrote:
>>> On 1/12/20 8:21 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
>>>>> Updated Installation Guide:
>>>>> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide
>>>>
>>>> For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:
>>>>
>>>> I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
>>>
>>> I wannabe!  I tried the new hd and boot floppy under MAME/apple3rtr, and
>>> met with great success.  Thanks!
>>
>> I had a play with it as well, thanks from me to.
>>
>> The command line is very nice to work around once i realised how the p and / commands worked. Its also great to have single letter commands to navigate quickly, feels very comfortable. (although i did hit the tab key a few times..)
>>
>> Is there any built in command to turn on 80 column mode?
> 
> Thanks Dave and Rob for trying it out. I haven't ventured into 80 column mode yet, mostly due to issues on the Apple II side of things. Working with the least common denominator before getting all fancy with the 80 columns, and such.

The trouble with 80 columns on the /// is that you have to implement 
most of it yourself (by mimicking II firmware).  There's precious little 
firmware support in the /// ROM for 80 columns, and what's there is of 
questionable value in terms of reusability.  That's of course assuming 
you are sane and don't want to go through the CONSOLE driver.

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#5358

On Tuesday, 14 January 2020 06:59:28 UTC-8, schmidtd  wrote:
> On 1/13/20 7:51 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
> > On Monday, 13 January 2020 15:08:07 UTC-8, Robert Justice  wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:30:07 AM UTC+11, schmidtd wrote:
> >>> On 1/12/20 8:21 PM, David Schmenk wrote:
> >>>>> Updated Installation Guide:
> >>>>> https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki/Installation-Guide
> >>>>
> >>>> For all you Apple /// fans or wannabe fans:
> >>>>
> >>>> I've added apple3rtr images for the hard disk and boot floppy to the DP3 release. PLASMA doesn't play nice with BOS for some reason (in real life, too), thus the need for a boot floppy: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/releases/tag/DP3
> >>>
> >>> I wannabe!  I tried the new hd and boot floppy under MAME/apple3rtr, and
> >>> met with great success.  Thanks!
> >>
> >> I had a play with it as well, thanks from me to.
> >>
> >> The command line is very nice to work around once i realised how the p and / commands worked. Its also great to have single letter commands to navigate quickly, feels very comfortable. (although i did hit the tab key a few times..)
> >>
> >> Is there any built in command to turn on 80 column mode?
> > 
> > Thanks Dave and Rob for trying it out. I haven't ventured into 80 column mode yet, mostly due to issues on the Apple II side of things. Working with the least common denominator before getting all fancy with the 80 columns, and such.
> 
> The trouble with 80 columns on the /// is that you have to implement 
> most of it yourself (by mimicking II firmware).  There's precious little 
> firmware support in the /// ROM for 80 columns, and what's there is of 
> questionable value in terms of reusability.  That's of course assuming 
> you are sane and don't want to go through the CONSOLE driver.

Even for 40 columns it requires direct programming. At least the 40 column screen layout mimics the Apple II. The only way the editor would be as fast as it is, is to write directly to screen memory. But just having 80 columns for the command line could go through the console driver. I'm going to take a PLASMA breather for a little while. Maybe when I return I'll get motivated for 80 columns on certain configurations.

Dave...

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#5359

I tried to compile some of the examples and only got syntax errors. Didn't seem to like any I tried. Invoking PLASM without a file seems to return a bunch of command line switches that I don't see documented anywhere? (Usage:+PLASM [-[W][O[2]][N]] <src> [out])


P /PLASMA/BLD
+PLASM EXAMPLES/EX.1.PLA


PLASMA Compiler, Version 2.0 DP3
Data+Code buffer size = 12356

DATA:1 bytes
INIT:
Error:syntax
EXAMPLES/EX.1.PLA[14]
PUTS("HELLO, WORLD.")
^

f

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#5360

On Tuesday, 14 January 2020 23:53:45 UTC-8, Frank M.  wrote:
> I tried to compile some of the examples and only got syntax errors. Didn't seem to like any I tried. Invoking PLASM without a file seems to return a bunch of command line switches that I don't see documented anywhere? (Usage:+PLASM [-[W][O[2]][N]] <src> [out])
> 
> 
> P /PLASMA/BLD
> +PLASM EXAMPLES/EX.1.PLA
> 
> 
> PLASMA Compiler, Version 2.0 DP3
> Data+Code buffer size = 12356
> 
> DATA:1 bytes
> INIT:
> Error:syntax
> EXAMPLES/EX.1.PLA[14]
> PUTS("HELLO, WORLD.")
> ^
> 
> f

Oh, I thought I removed the EXAMPLES directory. They are the old files form the previous version of PLASMA, running its IDE. Instead, try compiling the sources in the SAMPLES directory, form the BLD directory. As in:

P /PLASMA/BLD 
+PLASM SAMPLES/HELLO.PLA

I'll make sure I remove the EXAMPLES directory next time (probably left over from the previous images). Sorry about that,

Dave...

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#5361

Oh OK. I see now. Yes that works. You may want to remove the compiled HGRTEST from SAMPLES while you're in there. Doesn't seem to do anything until you re-compile it.


I have a few images working in "280x192 B/W HIRES" and am writing a PLASMA app to display them.

Curious about the Apple 3 graphics demo included. I can get the other video modes working, but the "140x192 16-COLOR HIRES" mode you use in the demo is throwing me. Looks like it's in bank 0 - $2000 and $4000 for even/odd and the nibbles interleaved? Can you shed some light on how that video mode works?

F

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#5362

> 
> I have a few images working in "280x192 B/W HIRES" and am writing a PLASMA app to display them.
> 

I also have some images working in A3 "SUPER HIRES APPLE ///: 560x192 B/W HIRES" mode that I can try in PLASMA once I get the other BW mode working.

f

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#5364

On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 08:31:02 UTC-8, Frank M.  wrote:
> > 
> > I have a few images working in "280x192 B/W HIRES" and am writing a PLASMA app to display them.
> > 
> 
> I also have some images working in A3 "SUPER HIRES APPLE ///: 560x192 B/W HIRES" mode that I can try in PLASMA once I get the other BW mode working.
> 
> f

I haven't tried my GRAFIX module with any other modes yet. Proabably a good place to start, though

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#5365

Thanks for the build update. Using the new 2mg now.

For my static image in mono mode, MEMCPY will work for now.


Still curious about the PLASM command line options:
Usage:+PLASM [-[W][O[2]][N]] <src> [out]


f

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#5366

On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 13:54:44 UTC-8, Frank M.  wrote:
> Thanks for the build update. Using the new 2mg now.
> 
> For my static image in mono mode, MEMCPY will work for now.
> 

Probably not on the /// - MEMCPY doesn't do inter-segment copies. Will need an update to that.
> 
> Still curious about the PLASM command line options:
> Usage:+PLASM [-[W][O[2]][N]] <src> [out]
> 
> 
> f
Slowly adding some documentation here: https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA/wiki

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#5367

On Wednesday, 15 January 2020 13:54:44 UTC-8, Frank M.  wrote:
> Thanks for the build update. Using the new 2mg now.
> 
> For my static image in mono mode, MEMCPY will work for now.
> 
> 
> Still curious about the PLASM command line options:
> Usage:+PLASM [-[W][O[2]][N]] <src> [out]
> 
> 
> f

BTW, thanks for the great feedback!

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#5372

I did a couple tests using with "PLASM -o2" and found a speed increase of 4-5% on the HGRTEST between frames vs. the non-optimized version. Code was also reduced by over 100 bytes from a starting size of 350 bytes or so.

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