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Karateka

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  Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-24 23:09 -0700
    Re: Karateka mverpelli@libero.it - 2015-06-25 02:39 -0700
      Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:11 -0700
        Re: Karateka TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-06-25 15:27 +0000
          Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 08:53 -0700
            Re: Karateka TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-06-25 17:18 +0000
              Re: Karateka mverpelli@libero.it - 2015-06-25 10:45 -0700
                Re: Karateka TheJ <thej@shaw.ca> - 2015-06-25 18:04 +0000
              Re: Karateka Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-02-22 15:50 -0800
        Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-25 11:12 -0700
          Re: Karateka mverpelli@libero.it - 2015-06-25 23:46 -0700
            Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-26 09:05 -0700
        Re: Karateka Alex Lee <email@domain.com> - 2015-06-27 20:46 +1000
          Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-27 12:13 -0700
            Re: Karateka Alex Lee <email@domain.com> - 2015-06-28 19:55 +1000
              Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2015-06-28 13:56 -0700
                Re: Karateka Alex Lee <email@domain.com> - 2015-06-29 23:00 +1000
          Re: Karateka Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 07:42 -0800
            Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 08:28 -0800
              Re: Karateka BLuRry <brendan.robert@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 10:36 -0800
                Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 16:27 -0800
                  Re: Karateka Zellyn <zellyn@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 18:45 -0800
                    Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 23:20 -0800
                      Re: Karateka Zellyn <zellyn@gmail.com> - 2017-02-22 05:22 -0800
                  Re: Karateka BLuRry <brendan.robert@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 21:37 -0800
                    Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-02-21 23:00 -0800
                  Re: Karateka Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-02-22 15:41 -0800
                    Re: Karateka qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-02-22 21:28 -0800
                      Re: Karateka Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-02-23 20:23 -0800

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#1726 — Karateka

Karateka, self-booting and hard-disk installable version, is awaiting moderation on Asimov.
Now for Prince of Persia... jk.

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#1727

Choplifter, please!

There was a ProDOS version but the posted link is dead and if you try WayBackMachine the download stuck at 24%

Thank for the great work!

Marco

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#1730

> Choplifter, please!
> 
> There was a ProDOS version but the posted link is dead and if you try WayBackMachine the download stuck at 24%

Okay, I can do that today.  My 18kb file version can also be copied to a ProDOS disk, in case you can't wait.
I'll take other requests, too. :-)

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#1731

I would be really interested in how you do your conversion process.
Any chance of a guide or tutorial?

TheJ

qkumba wrote:
>> Choplifter, please!
>> 
>> There was a ProDOS version but the posted link is dead and if you try
>> WayBackMachine the download stuck at 24%
> 
> Okay, I can do that today.  My 18kb file version can also be copied to a
> ProDOS disk, in case you can't wait.
> I'll take other requests, too. :-)
>

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#1733

> I would be really interested in how you do your conversion process.
> Any chance of a guide or tutorial?

A tutorial will be very specific to the software that is being converted.
See for example:

Creating the 1-side file-based version of Conan on the Apple II (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel16.htm)
Creating the 16-sector version of ToyShop on the Apple II (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel15.htm)
Creating the 16-sector version of Prince of Persia on the Apple II (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel14.htm)

The Karateka conversion was not particularly interesting, because Mr. Mechner's coding style made it easy.  Specifically, there were only two entrypoints that I had to intercept - load intro, and load level.  Both of those simply load the requested file ("karateka.a" or "karateka.[number]").
The rest was just a matter of extracting the data.  That process can be quite involved initially, if you're on real hardware (boot-trace until the RTS is reached, and then hook into it), and then repetitive - trap the data that were just read, move them to a safe memory space, reboot, save them to a file.
If you're using an emulator like MAME, you can simply save the data directly to a file.  For AppleWin, it seems that you have to save the state and then extract the contents.

Of course, you can let me know if that entire process sounds interesting to you to be described in detail, and I can do that.

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#1734

I have recently started a project to convert GraForth to ProDOS so any
information on how to approach this is of interest. I consider myself a
hobbyist but I do have an(very dated) electronics background. I do have some
experience with 6502 ASM , assemblers and the Apple Monitor. I am totally
over my head but that's kind of what makes it fun :-)
My goal is to have a modular and interactive dev environment (GraForth) that
I can use for my own purposes (whatever that ends up being) while adding
large disk support (via ProDOS)and support for various cards (Mockingboard,
RamWorks, Uthernet, NoSlotCLock, Mouse and others)
GraForth does not have copy protection so that isn't a concern.

I'm actively learning about just about aspect required to do this project;
DOS, ProDOS, Forth, tools, etc. The most difficult aspect for me right now
is how to trace the code to find DOS and replace it with ProDOS. What tools
to use and how to best use them.

I do have real hardware and it would be interested in knowing how to trace
code execution/booting. I'm also using Virtual II emulator but could use
AppleWin is need be.

I'm finding there are so many places to start from that I'm jumping around
quite a bit and not getting very far. A coherent "process" would be very
handy :-)

So YES !! I would love to see what you do in detail!
I thank you in advance for your time and effort !!

Jason

qkumba wrote:
>> I would be really interested in how you do your conversion process.
>> Any chance of a guide or tutorial?
> 
> A tutorial will be very specific to the software that is being converted.
> See for example:
> 
> Creating the 1-side file-based version of Conan on the Apple II
> (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel16.htm)
> Creating the 16-sector version of ToyShop on the Apple II
> (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel15.htm)
> Creating the 16-sector version of Prince of Persia on the Apple II
> (http://pferrie.host22.com/misc/lowlevel14.htm)
> 
> The Karateka conversion was not particularly interesting, because Mr.
> Mechner's coding style made it easy.  Specifically, there were only two
> entrypoints that I had to intercept - load intro, and load level.  Both of
> those simply load the requested file ("karateka.a" or
> "karateka.[number]").
> The rest was just a matter of extracting the data.  That process can be
> quite involved initially, if you're on real hardware (boot-trace until the
> RTS is reached, and then hook into it), and then repetitive - trap the
> data
> that were just read, move them to a safe memory space, reboot, save them
> to
> a file.
> If you're using an emulator like MAME, you can simply save the data
> directly to a file.  For AppleWin, it seems that you have to save the
> state
> and then extract the contents.
> 
> Of course, you can let me know if that entire process sounds interesting
> to
> you to be described in detail, and I can do that.
>

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#1735

GraForth + ProDOS = wonderful idea!
You may try to contact Paul Lutus via his site at:
http://arachnoid.com
He wrote an article on Electric Duet some times ago. Maybe he can remebrer also about GraForth.

Marco

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#1736

Paul was interviewed on an Apple 2 podcast a couple months ago so I did
message him via his web site. No reply yet... Maybe some day ;-)

j

mverpelli wrote:
> GraForth + ProDOS = wonderful idea!
> You may try to contact Paul Lutus via his site at:
> http://arachnoid.com
> He wrote an article on Electric Duet some times ago. Maybe he can remebrer
> also about GraForth.
> 
> Marco
>

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#3292

On Thursday, June 25, 2015 at 11:20:03 AM UTC-6, TheJ wrote:
> I have recently started a project to convert GraForth to ProDOS

Any update on this? TIA

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#1737

> Choplifter, please!

It's in /incoming right now.

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#1741

> It's in /incoming right now.

Got it!

This is perhaps the only version of Choplifter with the corrected intro:
starting with Brøderbund Software present... and not Your mission...

Marco

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#1742

> This is perhaps the only version of Choplifter with the corrected intro:
> starting with Brøderbund Software present... and not Your mission...

Yes, I worked hard to preserve as much as possible the original behaviour, which meant displaying the graphics screen as soon as possible, while loading the rest. Unfortunately, I didn't have the memory available to erase the graphics screen first.

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#1747

On 2015-06-25 15:11:50 +0000, qkumba said:

>> 
>> Choplifter, please!
>> 
>> There was a ProDOS version but the posted link is dead and if you try 
>> WayBackMachine the download stuck at 24%
> 
> Okay, I can do that today.  My 18kb file version can also be copied to 
> a ProDOS disk, in case you can't wait.
> I'll take other requests, too. :-)

Requests?

I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked 
Broderbund masterpiece - would be doubly amazing if it could fit 1 side 
of a 5.25" disk, ala Conan, but if it ran from ProDOS and a hard drive, 
that'd be brilliant. Airheart is another absolute classic that would be 
great to load from a large ProDOS volume. Maybe just everything 
Broderbund released? :-)

Another potentially awesome thing would be if some of later RPGs 
(Tangled Tales, Knights of Legend, Might and Magic I & II, King's 
Bounty, Ultima IV, V, etc.) could be hard drive installable (negating a 
lot of disk swapping), run from ProDOS and large volumes.

Thanks for making Karateka run from ProDOS - I've wanted to do this 
ever since I was 11 years old, and had more spare 3.5" disks than 5.25" 
disks at the time. Was keen to copy Karateka to a 3.5" disk, but got 
very frustrated when I couldn't understand why I couldn't do something 
seemingly so simple on my Apple IIGS!

- Alex

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#1751

> Requests?
> 
> I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked 
> Broderbund masterpiece - would be doubly amazing if it could fit 1 side 
> of a 5.25" disk, ala Conan, but if it ran from ProDOS and a hard drive, 
> that'd be brilliant. Airheart is another absolute classic that would be 
> great to load from a large ProDOS volume.

Both are on my list (they are among my favourites, too), but I'm not sure yet if Airheart can be done.  It depends on its memory consumption.
Prince of Persia is out for exactly that reason - there's nowhere for ProDOS to reside.  I could convert it to files, but it would still have to run from floppy, and I would have to cut out the "ctrl-^" Easter Egg to fit the VTOC.

> Maybe just everything Broderbund released? :-)

Wings of Fury might be troublesome, at a glance, but it will be interesting to try.

> Another potentially awesome thing would be if some of later RPGs 
> (Tangled Tales, Knights of Legend, Might and Magic I & II, King's 
> Bounty, Ultima IV, V, etc.) could be hard drive installable (negating a 
> lot of disk swapping), run from ProDOS and large volumes.

I'll add them to the list.

> Thanks for making Karateka run from ProDOS - I've wanted to do this 
> ever since I was 11 years old, and had more spare 3.5" disks than 5.25" 
> disks at the time. Was keen to copy Karateka to a 3.5" disk, but got 
> very frustrated when I couldn't understand why I couldn't do something 
> seemingly so simple on my Apple IIGS!

You're welcome, but based on your report about Conan, I might not be done with Karateka, after all.

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#1755

On 2015-06-27 19:13:22 +0000, qkumba said:

> > Requests?
>> 
>> I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked
>> Broderbund masterpiece - would be doubly amazing if it could fit 1 side
>> of a 5.25" disk, ala Conan, but if it ran from ProDOS and a hard drive,
>> that'd be brilliant. Airheart is another absolute classic that would be
>> great to load from a large ProDOS volume.
> 
> Both are on my list (they are among my favourites, too), but I'm not 
> sure yet if Airheart can be done.  It depends on its memory consumption.

Is the limitation getting these ProDOS hacks working within a total of 
128k of RAM? Or is it a more specific memory consideration? Of course, 
any IIGS, with or without a RAM card, can accomodate the 128k RAM 
limitation, but of course it'd be best if all IIe's and IIc's could 
benefit from these hacks. Basically, all I'm saying is - don't throw 
out any ProDOS launchers if they only work on Apple IIs with > 128k of 
RAM :-)

> Prince of Persia is out for exactly that reason - there's nowhere for 
> ProDOS to reside.  I could convert it to files, but it would still have 
> to run from floppy, and I would have to cut out the "ctrl-^" Easter Egg 
> to fit the VTOC.

Right. Well, there's the official 3.5" disk version that Broderbund 
released that's been cracked that makes it a single volume/non-disk 
swapping more pleasurable:

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/prince-of-persia

> 
>> Maybe just everything Broderbund released? :-)
> 
> Wings of Fury might be troublesome, at a glance, but it will be 
> interesting to try.

That'd be great too. Another disk image of that on 3.5" disk is also 
available (not sure whether this was an official Broderbund release or 
not):

http://www.whatisthe2gs.apple2.org.za/wings-of-fury

> 
>> Another potentially awesome thing would be if some of later RPGs
>> (Tangled Tales, Knights of Legend, Might and Magic I & II, King's
>> Bounty, Ultima IV, V, etc.) could be hard drive installable (negating a
>> lot of disk swapping), run from ProDOS and large volumes.
> 
> I'll add them to the list.

Fantastic!

> 
>> Thanks for making Karateka run from ProDOS - I've wanted to do this
>> ever since I was 11 years old, and had more spare 3.5" disks than 5.25"
>> disks at the time. Was keen to copy Karateka to a 3.5" disk, but got
>> very frustrated when I couldn't understand why I couldn't do something
>> seemingly so simple on my Apple IIGS!
> 
> You're welcome, but based on your report about Conan, I might not be 
> done with Karateka, after all.

No worries. Another thing to report is that Karateka wouldn't work at 
all under the Sweet 16 emulator. It ran fine with GSPort / KEGS, and 
ran fine on my real IIGS with CFFA3000. Let me know if you'd like me to 
test anything before uploading to Asimov.

- Alex

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#1756

> > Prince of Persia is out for exactly that reason - there's nowhere for 
> > ProDOS to reside.
> 
> Right. Well, there's the official 3.5" disk version that Broderbund 
> released that's been cracked that makes it a single volume/non-disk 
> swapping more pleasurable:

Yes, but it relies on direct disk access, so still no ProDOS there.

> > Wings of Fury might be troublesome, at a glance, but it will be 
> > interesting to try.
> 
> That'd be great too. Another disk image of that on 3.5" disk is also 
> available (not sure whether this was an official Broderbund release or 
> not):

The same thing applies - it relies on direct disk access, so if the memory consumption is large, there won't be room to replace it with ProDOS.

> No worries. Another thing to report is that Karateka wouldn't work at 
> all under the Sweet 16 emulator. It ran fine with GSPort / KEGS, and 
> ran fine on my real IIGS with CFFA3000. Let me know if you'd like me to 
> test anything before uploading to Asimov.

That sounds more like an issue with Sweet 16, in that case, especially as it works on real hardware.  As far as I can see, Karateka should work.  The memory control is proper (my Conan had a typo, which is not present here).

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#1758

>> No worries. Another thing to report is that Karateka wouldn't work at
>> all under the Sweet 16 emulator. It ran fine with GSPort / KEGS, and
>> ran fine on my real IIGS with CFFA3000. Let me know if you'd like me to
>> test anything before uploading to Asimov.
> 
> That sounds more like an issue with Sweet 16, in that case, especially 
> as it works on real hardware.  As far as I can see, Karateka should 
> work.  The memory control is proper (my Conan had a typo, which is not 
> present here).

Yep, no worries, just thought I'd mention the Sweet 16 thing if helped 
track down the issue with Conan. It didn't :-) And I certainly don't 
expect anything to change with the Karateka image to work with Sweet 16 
when it works fine on everything else.

Looking forward to the Conan fix and future releases!

- Alex

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#3282

Necro'ing ...

> I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked 
Broderbund masterpiece 

+11 for Captain Goodnight !!!

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#3283

> Necro'ing ...
> 
> > I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked 
> Broderbund masterpiece 
> 
> +11 for Captain Goodnight !!!

Now that ProRWTS has proven itself well for other titles including the Airheart monster, this one has moved up the list.  There is room for a file-based SmartPort-drive (3.5" or hard disk) version.
No idea yet about crushing it to one side of a 5.25".

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#3284

On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 at 10:28:08 AM UTC-6, qkumba wrote:
> > Necro'ing ...
> > 
> > > I've always been partial to Captain Goodnight, a sometimes overlooked 
> > Broderbund masterpiece 
> > 
> > +11 for Captain Goodnight !!!
> 
> Now that ProRWTS has proven itself well for other titles including the Airheart monster, this one has moved up the list.  There is room for a file-based SmartPort-drive (3.5" or hard disk) version.
> No idea yet about crushing it to one side of a 5.25".

Not that you weren't already aware of it but Martin has a lot of compression stuff you're welcome to borrow from assuming that ACME code isn't too unappealing to your tastes.  ;)

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