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What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend?

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  What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Matthew Power <matthewmpower@gmail.com> - 2018-08-21 20:02 -0700
    Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Marco Verpelli <mverpelli@libero.it> - 2018-08-21 23:37 -0700
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2018-08-22 05:50 -0700
        Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Marco Verpelli <mverpelli@libero.it> - 2018-08-22 07:02 -0700
          Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2018-08-22 12:11 -0700
            Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Marco Verpelli <mverpelli@libero.it> - 2018-08-23 01:52 -0700
              Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Andrew Werner <handyandy802@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-23 09:43 +0000
                Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Marco Verpelli <mverpelli@libero.it> - 2018-08-23 03:24 -0700
                Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-23 11:51 -0500
                  Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Andrew Werner <handyandy802@yahoo.com> - 2018-08-23 21:59 +0000
                Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2018-08-23 13:01 -0700
    Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-22 05:02 -0500
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? ol.sc@web.de (Oliver Schmidt) - 2018-08-23 09:30 +0000
        Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-23 10:54 -0500
          Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2018-08-23 09:42 -0700
          Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? ol.sc@web.de (Oliver Schmidt) - 2018-08-23 19:12 +0000
            Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-23 21:14 -0500
    Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-23 04:22 -0500
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-23 04:27 -0500
    What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2018-08-24 10:00 -0700
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-24 21:04 -0500
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Egan Ford <datajerk@gmail.com> - 2018-08-26 09:49 -0600
        Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net> - 2018-08-27 12:14 -0500
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? ol.sc@web.de (Oliver Schmidt) - 2018-08-26 19:06 +0000
      Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Matthew Power <matthewmpower@gmail.com> - 2018-08-27 16:43 -0700
        Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Zellyn <zellyn@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 06:35 -0700
          Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Matthew Power <matthewmpower@gmail.com> - 2018-08-28 17:16 -0700
        Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? paul.s.macmillan@gmail.com - 2018-08-28 09:24 -0700
          Re: What C development environment on Apple II do you recommend? Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2018-08-28 13:31 -0700

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#4715

"Michael Pohoreski" <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> wrote:
>...If you are writing some graphic utilities, and don't care about speed, 
>then C might be an acceptable solution for you.

Right down the edge of the razorblade he goes... Michael, you navigated 
through the politics of Apple II programming so gracefully creating scarcely 
a ripple outside the party line that you should be running for public 
office... pissing-off only the right people... like me.instance ever so 
slightly.

Whatever makes you happy is what you should do. Damn the torpedoes.

I am not even sure what else to say, but "duck everybody"!... whatever you 
do... the Apple II has a low ceiling.

Regards,

Bill 

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#4716

On 8/24/18 11:00 AM, Michael Pohoreski wrote:

> Or, if you are a sadist, and have time to waste, you could even use ca65 once you fix it's missing Apple 2 string types broken-out-of-the-box functionality. If your heart is set on using C then I would also strongly consider using cc65 as you can integrate assembly with it.  Just be prepared to spend a bunch of time on the toolchain, along with the "edit-compile-upload" cycle.

I have only used ca65 for all my large Apple II projects.  I would not 
characterize its usage as "time to waste".  I have found ca65 quite 
productive.

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#4723

"Egan Ford" <datajerk@gmail.com> wrote:
>I have only used ca65 for all my large Apple II projects.  I would not 
>characterize its usage as "time to waste".  I have found ca65 quite 
>productive.

I was going over some of your old posts and our emails from 2009 on Aztec 
C65, etc. It was in around that time that you started using the cc65 
toolchain, pointing out to me that cc65 is much faster and more efficient 
than Aztec C65...

Here's one of many of those old posts...  and I eventually came around to 
your way of thinking... especially with the death of MS-DOS and the need for 
DosBOX to run this old stuff...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill Buckels" <bbuckels@mts.net>
Newsgroups: comp.sys.apple2
Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:11 AM
Subject: Aztec C Programming for the Apple II : was Ciderpress for OS/X?



"datajerk" <datajerk@gmail.com> wrote:

>Bill, it is too easy thanks to you:

I couldn't agree more heartily:)

>1.  Unzip.
>2.  Type 'aztec.bat'
>3.  Copy one of Bill's makefiles.  Mod to taste.
>4.  Write your C program.
>5.  Type 'make'

>Thanks again!

You're welcome. So is everyone else. On the topic of point 4 above (4.
Write your C program.)

A large body of sample source and library routines is on the Aztec C Website
from a number of contributors and I continue to receive more.

Here's some acknowledgements (there are others)

http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/intro.htm#acknowledgements
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/index.htm#credits
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/ads/index.htm#credits

In particular and insofar as the Apple //e, I should place added emphasis on
the importance of Phade Software's libraries:

AZTECPLUS by by BluPhoenyx (Mike T.) & MacProber
Aztec C65 3.2a
6-30-86

ReadMe
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/AztecPlus65.txt
Download
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/AztecPlus65.zip

And oh yes, the AppleShell Project (lest we forget:)

ReadMe
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/AppleShell.txt
Download
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/AppleShell.zip

And then of course we have CP/M 80 and the Softcard and Applicard and other
Z80 cards on the Apple II which provides yet another compiler track:

ReadMe
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/az80106d.txt
Download
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/az80106d.zip
Manual
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/Aztec_C_1.06_User_Manual_Mar84.pdf

The Aztec C Museum still needs work but I completely revamped it recently
and hopefully it makes some more sense as a resource.

I also provide other resources for working with Apple II's and CP/M

The CPM 86 and CPM 80 Museum

http://www.cpm8680.com

This website is a Work In Progress of links and downloads dedicated to CP/M
(Control Program for Microcomputers) which was (and is) an operating system
similar to MS-DOS but which predated MS-DOS, and which is in fact the
operating system that MS-DOS descended from. But CP/M is much more than
simply an early version of MS-DOS and CP/M is very much alive in online
communities of Enthusiasts and Others who still use CP/M in Old (and
sometimes newer) Computers and Emulators. This website is maintained by Bill
Buckels as one of his several retro-computing sites which span several
decades of micro computing.

And even other compilers:

http://www.cpm8680.com/mix/index.htm

The other thing that I offer support for is Apple II graphics etc. through
the use of several utilities including:

http://www.clipshop.ca/

http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/tools.htm

ReadMe
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/docs/appletools.txt
Download
http://www.aztecmuseum.ca/appletools.zip

Have Fun! (I did and still am)

Bill Buckels
August 2009

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#4717

>i.e. If you are writing a boot loader, or disk reading/writing code then us=
>ing C wouldn't be the smartest idea.

https://github.com/cc65/ip65/wiki/Wget65 proves the very opposite.

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#4726

On Friday, August 24, 2018 at 1:00:52 PM UTC-4, Michael Pohoreski wrote:
> What type of application(s) are you planning on writing on the Apple 2?

OP here. I haven't coded at all in over a decade and I forgot almost everything. I used to write Perl and SQL on server side. I just want to get back into it, despite switching careers. Honestly, just writing something like Guess My Secret Number in a language other than Applesoft on the Apple II would be a lot of fun. 

> C compilers on the 6502 will never produce optimal 6502 code compared to hand-written assembly.  Just go directly to the metal and use fantastic cross-assemblers like:
> 
> * Merlin32, or
> * SBASM.
> 

I only picked C for my question because I figured I could get in faster because I remember the braces syntax. 
> 
> If you don't know (or don't want to learn) 6502 assembly...

Aww heck... Not that I wouldn't want to learn! If I knew of tutorials on super entry-level input/output like Guess my Random Number in assembly I'd be happy to pound away on my IIe. The books I've found on assembly from the Apple II's heyday go SO deep into the subject that I have to get the kids to bed before I've had time to write a single line of code.

Thank you!
Matthew

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#4731

On Monday, August 27, 2018 at 7:43:49 PM UTC-4, Matthew Power wrote:
> OP here. I haven't coded at all in over a decade and I forgot almost everything. I used to write Perl and SQL on server side. I just want to get back into it, despite switching careers. Honestly, just writing something like Guess My Secret Number in a language other than Applesoft on the Apple II would be a lot of fun. 

If you're not tied to C, then (old-school) Pascal and (new-school) PLASMA are two very good choices.

Also, 6502 assembler is pretty easy. Guess the number wouldn't be too hard.

Zellyn

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#4738

On Tuesday, August 28, 2018 at 9:35:46 AM UTC-4, Zellyn wrote:

> If you're not tied to C, then (old-school) Pascal and (new-school) PLASMA are two very good choices.

PLASMA looks pretty awesome! I like the videos that walk through it, and the easily found (and printable) editor commands. This is exactly what I was looking for!

I'll also be buying a copy of Assembly Lines as suggested by Paul S.

Thanks all!

Matthew

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#4732

Hi Matthew, you won't find much better than Roger Wagner's "Assembly Lines: The Complete Book" for learning 6502 assembly language. And it has been released into public domain so you can find it online as a PDF. 

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#4734

Public domain? I think there is instead a version you can purchase!!

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