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Portal in Applesoft

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  Portal in Applesoft vince@pianoman.cluster.toy - 2017-01-11 00:17 +0000
    Re: Portal in Applesoft David Schmidt <schmidtd@my-deja.com> - 2017-01-10 22:39 -0500
    Re: Portal in Applesoft inexorabletash@gmail.com - 2017-01-10 20:54 -0800
      Re: Portal in Applesoft vince@pianoman.cluster.toy - 2017-01-11 18:09 +0000
        Re: Portal in Applesoft Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-01-11 15:02 -0600
          Re: Portal in Applesoft Steve Nickolas <usotsuki@buric.co> - 2017-01-11 23:38 -0500
        Re: Portal in Applesoft inexorabletash@gmail.com - 2017-01-11 21:27 -0800
          Re: Portal in Applesoft inexorabletash@gmail.com - 2017-01-11 21:35 -0800
          Re: Portal in Applesoft D Finnigan <dog_cow@macgui.com> - 2017-01-12 18:44 +0000
            Re: Portal in Applesoft inexorabletash@gmail.com - 2017-01-12 19:00 -0800
              Re: Portal in Applesoft inexorabletash@gmail.com - 2017-01-12 19:07 -0800
          Re: Portal in Applesoft vince@pianoman.cluster.toy - 2017-01-13 02:14 +0000
    Re: Portal in Applesoft ultramagnus_tcv <mikew@thecomputervalet.com> - 2017-01-12 11:30 -0600
    Re: Portal in Applesoft Michael Lutynski <michael.lutynski@gmail.com> - 2017-01-13 23:19 -0800
    Re: Portal in Applesoft Oliver Schmidt <ol.sc@web.de> - 2017-01-17 10:06 +0000
      Re: Portal in Applesoft vince@pianoman.cluster.toy - 2017-01-17 15:21 +0000
    Portal in Applesoft cybernesto <cybernesto@gmail.com> - 2017-01-17 03:46 -0800
      Re: Portal in Applesoft vince@pianoman.cluster.toy - 2017-01-17 15:48 +0000
    Re: Portal in Applesoft laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-01-17 05:37 -0800
      Re: Portal in Applesoft Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-01-17 12:10 -0600
        Re: Portal in Applesoft Oliver Schmidt <ol.sc@web.de> - 2017-01-19 10:42 +0000
          Re: Portal in Applesoft Oliver Schmidt <ol.sc@web.de> - 2017-01-19 10:45 +0000
          Re: Portal in Applesoft gids.rs@sasktel.net - 2017-01-19 09:47 -0800
            Re: Portal in Applesoft Zellyn <zellyn@gmail.com> - 2017-01-19 10:12 -0800
    Re: Portal in Applesoft laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-01-20 17:44 -0800

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#3230

Hi Michael,

> As you've discovered, the Einstein compiler does have a runtime library--as
> any Applesoft compiler would be expected to--but it is appended to each
> compiled program rather than being a separate file on disk. 
> 
> This is an advantage if you need a single file program, but a considerable
> disadvantage if the disk contains multiple compiled programs. 

Thanks for clarifying this - so I don't have to :-)

Some additional remarks:

- If an Applesoft compiler comes with a separate runtime it usually comes
with instructions on how to combine the runtime with the compiler output to
form a single file.

- I don't know if that is true for Applesoft compilers but in general a
single separate runtime is supposed to be larger than a simplistic program
with an included runtime. Simply because the separate runtime is for all
types of compiled programs. Again, the separate runtime is still a big
benefit when considering disk space for multiple compiled programs.

- It's absolutely usual that a compiled simplistic program is "way too
large". Just compile a "Hello World" with GCC or Visual Studio on your PC
and check the result. The ratio gets the better the larger/complexer the
program gets.

One can put the latter in other words: A program simple enough that _you_
can/want to do it in Asm is something _you_ should maybe actually do in
Asm. A program so large/complex that _you_ can't / don't want to do in Asm
can be done in any high level language with running the risk to be
size-compared to the Asm program - as the latter doesn't exist ;-))

Regards,
Oliver

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#3231

> [...] any high level language with running the risk [...]

That was meant to read "... without running ..."

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#3232

> One can put the latter in other words: A program simple enough that _you_
> can/want to do it in Asm is something _you_ should maybe actually do in
> Asm. A program so large/complex that _you_ can't / don't want to do in Asm
> can be done in any high level language with running the risk to be
> size-compared to the Asm program - as the latter doesn't exist ;-))
> 
> Regards,
> Oliver



I would expand that even further in favor of Asm.

Take the time to learn Asm because every simple program can become a library of routines that can be used in a large, complex program.

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#3233

On Thursday, January 19, 2017 at 12:47:52 PM UTC-5, gid...@sasktel.net wrote:
> > One can put the latter in other words: A program simple enough that _you_
> > can/want to do it in Asm is something _you_ should maybe actually do in
> > Asm. A program so large/complex that _you_ can't / don't want to do in Asm
> > can be done in any high level language with running the risk to be
> > size-compared to the Asm program - as the latter doesn't exist ;-))
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Oliver
> 
> 
> 
> I would expand that even further in favor of Asm.
> 
> Take the time to learn Asm because every simple program can become a library of routines that can be used in a large, complex program.

You could also try PLASMA out… https://github.com/dschmenk/PLASMA

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#3234

I only have real experience with TASC... which is great because it puts the runtime at the lowest memory location (by default) and then places all of the code and variables directly after it, allowing for high memory to be anything else, extra graphics, music, loading areas ect.   

The method to make TASC one file with the runtime and source code is complex but doable.  There may be other ways to do it, but heres mine.  I compile the code and then ask for a report.  Looking at the report I see the length of the compiled code and variables... then mathematically put them at the lowest memory available... then I can figure out exactly where the library will go (directly after the code/variables.... then recompile the code again, using the options with the numbers I figured out.  then I BSAVE the chunk of code (its now in reverse order of default... OLD was RUNTIME+CODE+VARIABLES and new CODE+VARIBLABES+RUNTIME.   Now its BRUNABLE as one file...  The one downside is that if you need to make changes to the program you have to redo the whole process over because now the program is longer/shorter than what you originally figured out...

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