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Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals

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  Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals anthonypaulo@gmail.com - 2017-07-06 20:58 -0700
    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-07-07 14:24 -0500
      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals anthonypaulo@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 16:54 -0700
    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 13:25 -0700
      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 13:33 -0700
      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals anthonypaulo@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 16:59 -0700
        Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 17:01 -0700
          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-08 11:44 -0700
            Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-07-08 11:49 -0700
              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-09 06:03 -0700
              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-09 06:08 -0700
                Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 06:34 -0700
                  Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-09 08:28 -0700
                    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 11:08 -0700
                      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-09 16:28 -0700
                        Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-07-09 16:50 -0700
                        Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:37 -0800
                          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Tom Porter <laseractiveguy@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 16:46 -0800
                            Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 17:35 -0800
                              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Tom Porter <laseractiveguy@gmail.com> - 2017-12-20 18:00 -0800
                              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals craigslist530a@gmail.com - 2017-12-20 23:05 -0800
                                Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Tom Porter <laseractiveguy@gmail.com> - 2017-12-21 06:58 -0800
                      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 10:12 -0700
                        Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Anthony Ortiz <anthonypaulo@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 10:31 -0700
                          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 21:38 -0700
                        Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-07-12 14:44 -0500
                          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 13:08 -0700
                            Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Antoine Vignau <antoine.vignau@laposte.net> - 2017-07-12 13:26 -0700
                              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 13:37 -0700
                                Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 13:40 -0700
                                  Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-07-12 18:12 -0500
                          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Anthony Ortiz <anthonypaulo@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 13:25 -0700
                          Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 21:42 -0700
                            Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-07-13 09:37 -0700
                              Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael J. Mahon <mjmahon@aol.com> - 2017-07-13 19:14 -0500
                                Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-15 09:46 -0700
                    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Michael Pohoreski <michael.pohoreski@gmail.com> - 2017-12-19 18:14 -0800
    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals James Davis <JPD.Enterprises@outlook.com> - 2017-07-07 13:43 -0700
      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals anthonypaulo@gmail.com - 2017-07-07 16:03 -0700
    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals laseractiveguy@gmail.com - 2017-07-12 12:40 -0700
      Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> - 2017-07-12 21:40 -0700
    Re: Sound programming standard across Apple II audio peripherals Bill Chatfield <billchatfield1@gmail.com> - 2017-08-15 13:22 -0700

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#4047

Applevisions book by Bob Bishop has 1bit record/play routine source in it.  He also has cassette port networking in p.a.c.k (programmers assembly c....  kit)

Kant remember what ...   wait.  It's c for Construction

He also did voice recognition through cassette ports.  

I started a MIDI file to mockingboard player music. File converter years Ago but never finished.  The mockingboard player is interrupt driven So you just load a file and call PLAY.  Music plays in the background while you catalog a disk, run a basic program , or a 6502 program

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#4049

Craig... I hate this post to become all about me...
Recently, in the last 6 months I also have come up with a *MID to Mockingboard program called MIDI2MOCK... there are about 70 samples on 4 disks, plus a converter software/instructions ect... good to mess around with.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/z0ldxehkebwbfeg/MIDI%20TO%20MOCK%20VER1.zip?dl=0

It is NOT interrupt driven, work has begun on MIDI2MOCK version 2 that will/does have smaller music files (higher compression) and will be interrupt driven, prototypes are working but have too many apple II projects.
Some sample vids below...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lb8JoaVK3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmMZxdquiPA

Anyway, do you still have your code/player in a working state, i'd love to see it!   -Tom

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#3696

> Delay
>         NOP
>         NOP
>         NOP

It looks like this could be reduced by one byte, by replacing with CMP ($00,X) instead.

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#3697

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 1:12:16 PM UTC-4, qkumba wrote:
> > Delay
> >         NOP
> >         NOP
> >         NOP
> 
> It looks like this could be reduced by one byte, by replacing with CMP ($00,X) instead.

Who cares about a single byte when you have a whole 64K of RAM??!!!

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#3706

> Who cares about a single byte when you have a whole 64K of RAM??!!!

One byte can make all the difference if space is tight.

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#3699

qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Delay
>> NOP
>> NOP
>> NOP
> 
> It looks like this could be reduced by one byte, by replacing with CMP ($00,X) instead.
> 

It also fails to equalize cycles for both cases, which results in
additional noise. 

It looks like someone was trying to "trim" the loop period, but kind of
missed the point. 

This is a typical, not-well-engineered example of the simple code to
playback sound "recorded" to 1-bit precision through the cassette input
port. 

It reproduces fuzzed or "infinitely clipped" sound, which is OK for some
purposes, but pretty raucous for most purposes. It was used because for
many years it was thought to be "the only game in town" for Apple II's
without hardware assistance. 

I used it in my early "HEX DUMP READER" published on my website. 

It was my dissatisfaction with simple 1-bit audio that motivated me to
write a 5-bit software DAC (playing through the standard 1-bit speaker)
running at a pulse rate of 11kHz, followed by a 5-bit player running at
22kHz (but still at an 11kHz sample rate).

The double-frequency DAC pulse rate greatly reduces the requirement to
provide a low-pass (reconstruction) filter, since the speaker itself and
many human ears provide sufficient filtering. ;-)

For the AppleCrate synthesizer, I provided an audio processing/amplifying
channel that has stereo 5-pole filters which essentially eliminate the
22kHz pulse tone, and would probably allow going to a 6-bit software DAC
running at a pulse rate of 11kHz. 

-- 
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com

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#3700

You are unquestionably the audio guru, however as I see it its impossible to have 'perfect' audio and multi-tasking a full playing game without hisses and pops of any sort, even if the code truly was balanced on its clock cycles.  I do a 'good enough' approach by using equalizers to create the maximum clarity with the audio and then the pops do show up, but without pure tones it actually is masked fairly well, unlike beep or 'pure instrument' music.  My game code is not sync'ed nor is it cycle counted... heck, half the game is 'compiled applesoft!'  The good enough approach still is about the best that has ever been made, even if you compare it to 'Moon Patrol', Dogfighter2 blows the doors off it.

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#3702

Force 7 by Kyle Freeman, published by Datasoft, is a great example of sound while playing, cycle counting at its best!

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#3703

Your right, Force 7 isn't too bad for synth.   I haven't mastered 4 way scrolling with a whole map in memory yet... (only 2 way).  And for Anthony, MjM's explanation was a little bit more intelligible.... 

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#3704

How many floppy disks would 5bit audio take to make a game... that's another factor to consider to.  Its a trade off, good audio, or disk space.  Alright, I be quiet now...

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#3705

<laseractiveguy@gmail.com> wrote:
> How many floppy disks would 5bit audio take to make a game... that's
> another factor to consider to.  Its a trade off, good audio, or disk
> space.  Alright, I be quiet now...
> 
> 

Of course. 

I'm not proposing that you adopt a software DAC approach, which requires
multiple bits per sample. 

However, your playback routine can easily be made to have constant loop
times for "toggle" and "no toggle". 

It's a small improvement, but it's easy. 

BTW, if instead of continuous playback you are synthesizing musical notes,
then very little additional space is required. For example, a typical
instrument voice is about 5-10 pages, and each note (up to six seconds
long) is just three bytes. 

-- 
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com

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#3701

On Wednesday, July 12, 2017 at 3:44:32 PM UTC-4, mjm...@aol.com wrote:
> qkumba <peter... @gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Delay
> >> NOP
> >> NOP
> >> NOP
> > 
> > It looks like this could be reduced by one byte, by replacing with CMP ($00,X) instead.
> > 
> 
> It also fails to equalize cycles for both cases, which results in
> additional noise. 
> 
> It looks like someone was trying to "trim" the loop period, but kind of
> missed the point. 
> 
> This is a typical, not-well-engineered example of the simple code to
> playback sound "recorded" to 1-bit precision through the cassette input
> port. 
> 
> It reproduces fuzzed or "infinitely clipped" sound, which is OK for some
> purposes, but pretty raucous for most purposes. It was used because for
> many years it was thought to be "the only game in town" for Apple II's
> without hardware assistance. 
> 
> I used it in my early "HEX DUMP READER" published on my website. 
> 
> It was my dissatisfaction with simple 1-bit audio that motivated me to
> write a 5-bit software DAC (playing through the standard 1-bit speaker)
> running at a pulse rate of 11kHz, followed by a 5-bit player running at
> 22kHz (but still at an 11kHz sample rate).
> 
> The double-frequency DAC pulse rate greatly reduces the requirement to
> provide a low-pass (reconstruction) filter, since the speaker itself and
> many human ears provide sufficient filtering. ;-)
> 
> For the AppleCrate synthesizer, I provided an audio processing/amplifying
> channel that has stereo 5-pole filters which essentially eliminate the
> 22kHz pulse tone, and would probably allow going to a 6-bit software DAC
> running at a pulse rate of 11kHz. 
> 
> -- 
> -michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com

For all you laymen that need this translated to plain and simple English that we can all understand, he's simply stating the obvious : when the Heisenberg magnaspanners collapse you need to realign the nuclear density synthesizer to correlate with the metatronic microfilament dish's perpetual resonance by utilizing a bipolar shifter damping field with multiadaptive seeker gravitic subspace duotronics. This is, of course, par for the course and you will probably wonder "what's the big deal mjm?" but if you tweak the Dermatiraelian sensor net ever so slightly with Michael's patent pending psilosynine transwarp field coils and thoron neurotransmitters your ears will literally piss in their cavities; *that's* how good 5-bit sound is.

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#3708

> It looks like someone was trying to "trim" the loop period, but kind of
> missed the point. 

More exactly - we have different points of view.  Yes, it's a simple playback routine, but if it is sufficient for the purpose, then it becomes the target for optimization.
And yes, the timing is not consistent, especially when crossing a page.

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#3709

> And yes, the timing is not consistent, especially when crossing a page.

Here's a version with effectively constant timing across all paths, but subject to the fluctuation due to calling $FCA8:

Speaker = $C030 
WAIT    = $FCA8 

        ORG $300 

Main   
        LDX #0 
        STX GetNote+1   ; *** SELF-MODIFYING 
        LDY #$14 
        STY GetNote+2   ; *** SELF-MODIFYING 
        BNE GetNote 
SamePage 
        LDY #8          ; BitsPerByte 
SameByte 
        PHA 
        LDA #8          ; Delay, Default=4 
        JSR WAIT 
        PLA 
        ASL 
        NOP 
        BCC Delay
        STA Speaker
        BCS Next
Delay 
        CMP ($00,X)
Next
        DEY
        BNE SameByte1
GetNote 
        LDA $DA1A,X     ; *** SELF-MODIFIED!
        INX
        BNE SamePage1
        INC GetNote+2
        LDA GetNote+2
        CMP #$6A        ; End of File, Default=#$96
        BNE SamePage
        RTS

SameByte1
        CMP $44,X
        CMP ($00,X)
        CMP ($00,X)
        JMP SameByte

SamePage1
        CMP ($00,X)
        NOP
        JMP SamePage

The tones are slightly lower as a result.

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#3710

qkumba <peter.ferrie@gmail.com> wrote:
>> And yes, the timing is not consistent, especially when crossing a page.
> 
> Here's a version with effectively constant timing across all paths, but
> subject to the fluctuation due to calling $FCA8:
> 
> Speaker = $C030 
> WAIT    = $FCA8 
> 
>         ORG $300 
> 
> Main   
>         LDX #0 
>         STX GetNote+1   ; *** SELF-MODIFYING 
>         LDY #$14 
>         STY GetNote+2   ; *** SELF-MODIFYING 
>         BNE GetNote 
> SamePage 
>         LDY #8          ; BitsPerByte 
> SameByte 
>         PHA 
>         LDA #8          ; Delay, Default=4 
>         JSR WAIT 
>         PLA 
>         ASL 
>         NOP 
>         BCC Delay
>         STA Speaker
>         BCS Next
> Delay 
>         CMP ($00,X)
> Next
>         DEY
>         BNE SameByte1
> GetNote 
>         LDA $DA1A,X     ; *** SELF-MODIFIED!
>         INX
>         BNE SamePage1
>         INC GetNote+2
>         LDA GetNote+2
>         CMP #$6A        ; End of File, Default=#$96
>         BNE SamePage
>         RTS
> 
> SameByte1
>         CMP $44,X
>         CMP ($00,X)
>         CMP ($00,X)
>         JMP SameByte
> 
> SamePage1
>         CMP ($00,X)
>         NOP
>         JMP SamePage
> 
> The tones are slightly lower as a result.
> 

So the "recording" routine should also be inspected for equivalent timing. 

-- 
-michael - NadaNet 3.1 and AppleCrate II:  http://michaeljmahon.com

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#3711

To be honest I never thought about 'modifying' the player or recording cores, as when I started out doing apple recording I didn't know an LDA from a JSR.  I will take all these suggestions to my assembler on Sunday and see if it can be modified to have 'equal clock cycles' in on and off periods and just general improvements.  There is a margin inside SFX for the 'playback routine' so modifying that for the 'upgraded' sound shouldn't be a problem... although the rest of it is VERY tight after the GS "correction" speed upgrade....   thank you MJM, Qkumba and the others!

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#4042

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 8:28:42 AM UTC-7, Tom Porter wrote:
> This is about the best compression that can be achieved (I think anyway)... the quality isn't the highest but that wasn't the point of this test.  Pirates of the Caribbean loop... 54 seconds, takes 86 sectors (aka 21.5kb), or only 15% of the disk.   I guess sample rate is close to .40kb per second.  
> 
> I cant guarantee speed accurate on a gs...  https://www.dropbox.com/s/zymrlfobvzsqkui/REC%20TEST.DSK?dl=0

Necro'ing ...

I was going to show this to another Apple 2 aficionado but the link is dead. Fortunately, was able to find a saved copy.

Is the original source WAV file available so we test different codecs using an apples-to-apples (pun intended) comparison?

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#3652

On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 8:58:07 PM UTC-7, anthon...@gmail.com wrote:
> For people interested in generating sound effects/music for their games on the Apple II, is there a standard file format for sounds that can be played across the different devices, such as Apple II speaker, Mockingboard, and Ensoniq, and are there libraries out there for playing said standard? That is, similar to the way the same mp3 file is played via a Sound Blaster, RealTek, or any of those other audio chips where mp3 is the standard but the driver implementation varies?

If you are really interested in Apple II sound technology, you should read some of the sound articles (pun intended) on MJM's website: 

http://michaeljmahon.com 

James Davis

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#3656

On Friday, July 7, 2017 at 4:43:25 PM UTC-4, James Davis wrote:
> On Thursday, July 6, 2017 at 8:58:07 PM UTC-7, anthon...@gmail.com wrote:
> > For people interested in generating sound effects/music for their games on the Apple II, is there a standard file format for sounds that can be played across the different devices, such as Apple II speaker, Mockingboard, and Ensoniq, and are there libraries out there for playing said standard? That is, similar to the way the same mp3 file is played via a Sound Blaster, RealTek, or any of those other audio chips where mp3 is the standard but the driver implementation varies?
> 
> If you are really interested in Apple II sound technology, you should read some of the sound articles (pun intended) on MJM's website: 
> 
> http://michaeljmahon.com 
> 
> James Davis

Yes, I just went through your link... Michael is quite the busy bee, and hardcore to boot! I could use a brain dump from him...

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#3698

I never messed with the core.... I think the NOP is more of a delay, but its possible it was a patch way back in 1986...  the music may play a little faster with them removed...

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