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Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler.

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  Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-10 06:53 -0700
    Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-08-10 15:09 +0100
      Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-10 07:36 -0700
        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. "John Williams (News)" <UCEbin@tiscali.co.uk> - 2012-08-10 17:48 +0200
        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-08-10 17:27 +0100
          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2012-08-10 18:29 +0100
            Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gavin Wraith <gavin@wra1th.plus.com> - 2012-08-11 16:31 +0100
              Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Jochen Lueg <jochenlueg@roevalley.com> - 2012-08-12 10:43 +0000
                Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> - 2012-08-12 12:29 +0100
          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-08-12 09:23 +0100
        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Brian Jordan <brian.jordan9@btinternet.com> - 2012-08-10 19:01 +0100
        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. xltardy@gmail.com - 2012-08-14 10:33 -0700
    Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-08-10 17:04 +0100
    Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk - 2012-08-10 15:42 -0700
      Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-08-11 00:51 +0100
        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk - 2012-08-11 16:46 -0700
          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2012-08-12 09:44 +0100
          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-08-12 13:39 +0100
          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> - 2012-08-12 13:44 +0100
            Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-14 05:07 -0700
              Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> - 2012-08-15 19:47 +0100
                Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-15 17:08 -0700
                  Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> - 2012-08-16 11:21 +0100
                    Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-17 04:10 -0700
                      Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-17 04:16 -0700
                        Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-21 08:30 -0700
                          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-08-21 18:21 +0100
                            Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-21 14:12 -0700
                          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> - 2012-08-21 19:20 +0100
                            Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-08-22 23:22 +0100
                          Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2012-08-21 22:50 +0100
                            Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> - 2012-08-22 00:06 -0700
                              Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Steve Drain <steve@kappa.me.uk> - 2012-08-22 11:25 +0100
                              Re: Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler. Dave Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2012-08-22 14:00 +0100

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#2049 — Obtaining BBC BASIC with updated ARM assembler.

Need to get hold of a module and ancillories I can stick in the
PreDesk directory of a v3.71 A7000+ that can work with the newer
numonics. (ADRL, MRS, MSR etc.)

Anyone got any suggestions? Can't seem to find anything newer then
v1.44 (2009) on ROOL. Running this and still can't assemble these
instructions.

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#2051

Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:

> numonic

Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  

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#2052

On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
<jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

> Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)

Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an
answer.

Thanks anyway.

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#2056

In article
<28238e85-d315-4b9d-90e5-4f4b4bc85f79@g1g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
   Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:

> > Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)

> Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an
> answer.

Yes, it does - really!

John

-- 
John Williams, Brittany, Northern France - no attachments to these addresses!
Non-RISC OS posters change user to johnrwilliams or put 'risc' in subject!
Who is John Williams? http://petit.four.free.fr/picindex/author/

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#2058

Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:

>On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
><jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)
>
> Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an answer.

Why would you not care how a word is spelled?  You probably think I'm being
picky, but being picky is a useful character trait for a programmer.

> Thanks anyway.

Think nothing of it.

-- 
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.

Email sent to my from-address will be deleted. Instead, please reply
to newsreplyaaa@wingsandbeaks.org.uk replacing "aaa" by "284".  

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#2059

In article <mpro.m8jsdh00cw0ob02oo@wingsandbeaks.org.uk.invalid>,
   Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk>
wrote:
> Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:

> >On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> ><jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)
> >
> > Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an
> > answer.

> Why would you not care how a word is spelled?

Maybe because the lack of correct spelling made zero difference to
people's ability to fully understand the message. It may be different in
another context where RO assembler is not the topic.

Bit like when folk get all wound up because someone writes RiscOS or
riscos, in the context of C.S.A.x newsgroups there is no chance the
message will not be fully understood and therefore it matters not one jot
unless you're discussing how it should be written.

Language has two functions, Communication and Art form. If the message was
received and understood then the communication succeeded.

> You probably think I'm being picky, but being picky is a useful
> character trait for a programmer.

Sorry but the above is just logic and that is very important to
programmers too.

Having said all of the above I would prefer correct spelling etc. and
*try* to provide that but if I understood the message, where's the problem?


Bob.

-- 
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

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#2064

In message <52bd28531fbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
          Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> Language has two functions, Communication and Art form. If the message was
> received and understood then the communication succeeded.

You forgot some other important functions of language: deception,
persuasion, entertainment, bullying, ... . None of these necessarily
entail the communication of content.

-- 
Gavin Wraith (gavin@wra1th.plus.com)
Home page: http://www.wra1th.plus.com/

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#2072

In article <8c67a1bd52.wra1th@wra1th.plus.com>,
   Gavin Wraith <gavin@wra1th.plus.com> wrote:
> In message <52bd28531fbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
>           Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> > Language has two functions, Communication and Art form. If the message was
> > received and understood then the communication succeeded.

> You forgot some other important functions of language: deception,
> persuasion, entertainment, bullying, ... . None of these necessarily
> entail the communication of content.

I firmly believe that the first sentence ever uttered by a hominoid was
also the first lie.

Jochen

-- 

 ------------------------------------ 
 The Roe Valley and Limavady
 Roe Valley News Browser
 http://roevalley.com

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#2073

> In article <8c67a1bd52.wra1th@wra1th.plus.com>,
>    Gavin Wraith <gavin@wra1th.plus.com> wrote:
> > In message <52bd28531fbob@sick-of-spam.invalid>
> >           Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

> > > Language has two functions, Communication and Art form. If the
> > > message was received and understood then the communication succeeded.

> > You forgot some other important functions of language: deception,
> > persuasion, entertainment, bullying, ... . None of these necessarily
> > entail the communication of content.

These are just subsets of communication. Can you not communicate a lie?
What is the primary function of a telephone? Transferring information from
one person to another, communication. All of the above can be done via the
original use of a telephone. 

Bob.

-- 
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

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#2070

On 10/08/2012 17:27, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts wrote:
> Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
>> <jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)
>>
>> Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an answer.
>
> Why would you not care how a word is spelled?  You probably think I'm being
> picky, but being picky is a useful character trait for a programmer.

It's attention to detail that can avoid hassle when integrating several 
teams work, to ensure they haven't used initialise/initialize 
licence/license, etc.

---druck

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#2060

In message <28238e85-d315-4b9d-90e5-4f4b4bc85f79@g1g2000vba.googlegrou 
ps.com>
          Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:

> On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> <jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:

>> Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)

> Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an
> answer.

Probably... When I read your original posting I came across a word, 
"numonic", I had never previously seen and for whatever reason failed 
to make the connection to "mnemonic" - a word with which I am 
familiar. I know nothing about assembler so assumed that my new word 
for today, "numonic" was worth investigating. I couldn't find it in 
any dictionary and only when I read Jeremy's reply did the penny drop.

Out of interest the spelling checker in Messenger was perfectly happy 
with "mnemonic" but flagged "numonic" as an error as I was typing 
this.


-- 

Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.20

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#2084

Le vendredi 10 août 2012 16:36:33 UTC+2, Gazza a écrit :
> On Aug 10, 3:09 pm, Jeremy Nicoll - news posts
> 
> <jn.nntp.scrap...@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > Just for info, it's "mnemonic".   ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> Does it really matter how it's spelled?? I was just looking for an
> 
> answer.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks anyway.

Oh yes it does ... Peter N. is watching U ... You're doomed.

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#2057

Gazza <usenet@garethlock.com> wrote:
> Anyone got any suggestions? Can't seem to find anything newer then
> v1.44 (2009) on ROOL. Running this and still can't assemble these
> instructions.

Here's the version history for ROOL's module:
http://www.riscosopen.org/viewer/view/castle/RiscOS/Sources/Programmer/BASIC/VersionNum

While the VFP/NEON assembler has gone in since then, there's no mention of
things like MSR/MRS.

ISTR vaguely there was an OPT flag you have to invoke to enable the new
instructions (checks, ah, bit 4).  Otherwise you could have old code like:

LR0=8:LR1=9
[
MOVLR0,LR1 ; perfectly acceptable to have no spaces
ADRLR0,foo ; ADRL or ADR?
]

Code output by BASIC compressors tended to do this, and was thus ambiguous.

There's some difference in OPT behaviour between ROL and ROOL strands, but I
can't remember what.

Theo

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#2061

Gazza wrote:
> Need to get hold of a module and ancillories I can stick in the
> PreDesk directory of a v3.71 A7000+ that can work with the newer
> numonics. (ADRL, MRS, MSR etc.)
...

BBC BASIC v1.52 is part of the binaries at
http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/

v1.49 added the VFP mnemonics, I can't tell from the documentation
if MRS, MSR, etc. are included without interrupting a single-tasking
archiving sequence on my A5000.

JGH

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#2063

jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk wrote:
> BBC BASIC v1.52 is part of the binaries at
> http://www.riscosopen.org/content/downloads/

...but not as a separate module, unless I'm missing something.  There's a
page with v1.44 there which isn't linked, but nothing newer.  You can chisel
something out of a ROM, but since things tend to be ready-linked together
(hardcoded jumps to C library etc, compiled-in OS workspace locations) that
can be a risky strategy.

Theo

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#2066

Theo Markettos wrote:
> You can chisel something out of a ROM, but since things tend to be
> ready-linked together (hardcoded jumps to C library etc, compiled-in
> OS workspace locations) that can be a risky strategy.

Since when did BASIC use the Shared C library? And since when
did any non-OS component access OS workspace memory directory?

Module:
http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/BASIC152
Put these in ResourcesFS, renamed appropriately:
http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicMessages152
http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicVFPData152

According to the Messages file the assembler includes MRS, MSR
and various other bits and pieces.

JGH

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#2071

In message <f9fd8bb2-5322-4807-a370-7ad1b02cad8b@googlegroups.com>
          jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk wrote:

> Theo Markettos wrote:
>> You can chisel something out of a ROM, but since things tend to be
>> ready-linked together (hardcoded jumps to C library etc, compiled-in
>> OS workspace locations) that can be a risky strategy.

> Since when did BASIC use the Shared C library? And since when
> did any non-OS component access OS workspace memory directory?

> Module:
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/BASIC152
> Put these in ResourcesFS, renamed appropriately:
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicMessages152
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicVFPData152

> According to the Messages file the assembler includes MRS, MSR
> and various other bits and pieces.


Thanks for your additions to BASIC - but could you add ADRL?

Seem to remember - with the BAX modified BASIC module with ADRL !Zap 
displayed

ADR r0,&xxxx ;points to address used
ADD/SUB r0,r0,#0

*instead of having to do a add/sub calculation.


-- 
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

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#2074

jgh@arcade.demon.co.uk wrote:
> Theo Markettos wrote:
> > You can chisel something out of a ROM, but since things tend to be
> > ready-linked together (hardcoded jumps to C library etc, compiled-in
> > OS workspace locations) that can be a risky strategy.
> 
> Since when did BASIC use the Shared C library? And since when
> did any non-OS component access OS workspace memory directory?

BASIC doesn't use SCL or OS workspace, I was speaking generally.  In BASIC's
case an example might be use of the CLZ instruction, which is used if
targeting an ARMv5 or later processor.  So chiselling a copy out of a
BeagleBoard ROM might cause trouble.

Theo

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#2075

jgh wrote:
> Module:
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/BASIC152
> Put these in ResourcesFS, renamed appropriately:
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicMessages152
> http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicVFPData152

'Put these in ResourcesFS' - how does one do this? (answer below) ;-)

I had reason to want to do just what you say above a week or so ago in 
order to debug Basalt. I did not know that you had the separate files on 
your site, but they were kindly extracted for me. In the end I was able 
to install the whole 5.19 OS and did not need to do it.

It occurred to me then that the integration of those Messages files 
within the one linked list in the rom image would cause problems for 
anyone wanting to try out just the BASIC. It is a departure from what 
has gone before.

Would it be feasible to have those files within the BASIC module and 
registered with ResourceFS independently of the main rom?

Otherwise, the answer to registering the individual files might lie with 
my RFSFiles module:

  http://kappa.me.uk/rfsfiles.htm

It should be 32-bit ok, but has not been tested on any new hardware.

Steve

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#2079

On Aug 12, 1:44 pm, Steve Drain <st...@kappa.me.uk> wrote:
> jgh wrote:
> > Module:
> >http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/BASIC152
> > Put these in ResourcesFS, renamed appropriately:
> >http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicMessages152
> >http://mdfs.net/Software/BBCBasic/RISCOS/ResourcesBasicVFPData152
>
> 'Put these in ResourcesFS' - how does one do this? (answer below) ;-)
>
> I had reason to want to do just what you say above a week or so ago in
> order to debug Basalt. I did not know that you had the separate files on
> your site, but they were kindly extracted for me. In the end I was able
> to install the whole 5.19 OS and did not need to do it.
>
> It occurred to me then that the integration of those Messages files
> within the one linked list in the rom image would cause problems for
> anyone wanting to try out just the BASIC. It is a departure from what
> has gone before.
>
> Would it be feasible to have those files within the BASIC module and
> registered with ResourceFS independently of the main rom?
>
> Otherwise, the answer to registering the individual files might lie with
> my RFSFiles module:
>
>  http://kappa.me.uk/rfsfiles.htm
>
> It should be 32-bit ok, but has not been tested on any new hardware.
>
> Steve

Had a try with your RFSFiles module on the target machine (A7000+ OS
v3.71) First tried with a cooked up app with the module, a !Run script
and the files to install, did this from !Boot.Choices.PreDesk (Thought
this might be the safest way of getting it all in early enough not to
brick anything that might come later.)

Script consists of...

RMEnsure RFSFiles 0.95 RMLoad <Obey$Dir>.RFSFiles
RMEnsure RFSFiles 0.95 Error 0 RFSFiles not found or too old!

RFSAdd Resources.BASIC.Messages <Obey$Dir>.Res.Messages -i
RFSAdd Resources.BASIC.VFPData <Obey$Dir>.Res.VFPData -i

RMEnsure BASIC 1.52 RMLoad <Obey$Dir>.Res.Basic152
RMEnsure BASIC 1.52 Error 0 BBC BASIC v1.52 not installed!

OK... So maybe it's an issue with loading it from PreDesk. So tried it
from a desktop environment and still no joy. In the documentation it
says that one of the limitations is that it can't replace files that
IT hasn't put there in the first place, even if that were true, I'd
have expected it to install VFPData correctly. Any ideas?

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