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Groups > comp.sys.acorn.programmer > #538 > unrolled thread

Acorn !DDT on RO4/6

Started bycferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid
First post2011-07-09 22:08 +0100
Last post2011-07-28 08:57 +0100
Articles 10 — 6 participants

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  Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-07-09 22:08 +0100
    Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> - 2011-07-26 23:59 +0100
      Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2011-07-27 11:08 +0200
        Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 "Ste (news)" <steve@revi11.plus.com> - 2011-07-31 02:02 +0100
      Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-07-27 10:25 +0100
        Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> - 2011-07-27 12:00 +0200
          Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-27 13:37 +0200
            Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-27 23:38 +0200
            Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2011-07-28 19:09 +0100
          Re: Acorn !DDT on RO4/6 cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid - 2011-07-28 08:57 +0100

#538 — Acorn !DDT on RO4/6

Fromcferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid
Date2011-07-09 22:08 +0100
SubjectAcorn !DDT on RO4/6
Message-ID<7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>
Hi
Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger stops
working.

Thanks
-- 
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

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#573

FromMr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
Date2011-07-26 23:59 +0100
Message-ID<na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
In reply to#538
In article <7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>,
cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
> Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger stops
> working.
> 

  Colin

  I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in case !DDT
works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6/7

  John


-- 
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   / \._._ |_  _     _  /'       Orpheus Internet Services
   \_/| |_)| |(/_|_|_> /          'Internet for Everyone'
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#574

FromMartin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com>
Date2011-07-27 11:08 +0200
Message-ID<51d648f951.martin@bach.planiverse.com>
In reply to#573
In message <na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
          Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>,
> cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
>> Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger stops
>> working.
>> 

>   Colin

>   I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in case !DDT
> works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6/7

RO7? Is there something I have missed?

-- 
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner         MW Software      http://www.mw-software.com/
        RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------

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#581

From"Ste (news)" <steve@revi11.plus.com>
Date2011-07-31 02:02 +0100
Message-ID<51fb2bafcasteve@revi11.plus.com>
In reply to#574
In article <51d648f951.martin@bach.planiverse.com>,
   Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:
> In message <na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
>           Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
> > I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in case !DDT
> > works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6/7
>
> RO7? Is there something I have missed?

Bump!

Steve

-- 
Steve Revill @ Home
Note: All opinions expressed herein are my own.

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#575

Fromcferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid
Date2011-07-27 10:25 +0100
Message-ID<13684af951.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>
In reply to#573
In message <na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
          Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>,
> cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
> > Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger
> > stops working.
> > 
> 
>   Colin
> 
>   I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in case
>   !DDT works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6xx

So that leaves 32bit RO4xx and 6xx not working with !DDT.

Is there a log showing what changes that have been made to 32bit RO4xx
and 26bit RO6xx ?

-- 
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

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#576

FromMartin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com>
Date2011-07-27 12:00 +0200
Message-ID<00914df951.martin@bach.planiverse.com>
In reply to#575
In message <13684af951.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>
          cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:

> In message <na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
>           Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:

>> In article <7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>,
>> cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
>>> Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger
>>> stops working.
>>> 
>> 
>>   Colin
>> 
>>   I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in case
>>   !DDT works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6xx

> So that leaves 32bit RO4xx and 6xx not working with !DDT.

> Is there a log showing what changes that have been made to 32bit RO4xx
> and 26bit RO6xx ?

I do not think that would help much. DDT is not just any old program, 
it is conceptually part of the OS because it reads and manipulates 
internal OS data structures - which other programs are not allowed to 
do. So, that means that each time any relevant internal OS data 
structures have changed an updated version of DDT is required that 
knows about these changes. Such changes of internal OS data structures 
can happen at any time without notice because they are not visible to 
user programs. So, due to the way DDT was written it needs to be 
maintained alongside the OS, but that only happens for RO5 now.

-- 
Martin
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Martin Wuerthner         MW Software      http://www.mw-software.com/
        RISC OS Software for Design, Printing and Publishing
---------------------------------------------------------------------

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#577

FromRick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2011-07-27 13:37 +0200
Message-ID<4e2ff88d$0$30792$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
In reply to#576
On 27/07/2011 12:00, Martin Wuerthner wrote:

> So, due to the way DDT was written it needs to be maintained alongside the
> OS, but that only happens for RO5 now.

Hmmm... And OS without a debugger is like...

[ERROR &40083 Analogy Fail]


Best wishes,

Rick.

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#578

FromRick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk>
Date2011-07-27 23:38 +0200
Message-ID<4e30856a$0$30771$ba4acef3@reader.news.orange.fr>
In reply to#577
On 27/07/2011 13:37, Rick Murray wrote:

> Hmmm... And OS without a debugger is like...
           ^^^

> [ERROR &40083 Analogy Fail]

[ERROR &20451 Typing Fail] ;-)


R.

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#580

Fromdruck <news@druck.org.uk>
Date2011-07-28 19:09 +0100
Message-ID<j0s8l4$cua$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#577
On 27/07/2011 12:37, Rick Murray wrote:
> On 27/07/2011 12:00, Martin Wuerthner wrote:
>
>> So, due to the way DDT was written it needs to be maintained alongside
>> the
>> OS, but that only happens for RO5 now.
>
> Hmmm... And OS without a debugger is like...
>
> [ERROR &40083 Analogy Fail]

...pretty useless, no analogy needed.

I certainly wouldn't have been able to write DiscKnight or ARMalyser 
with out a full symbolic debugger to let me set break points and step 
through the code, so I ported them to Windows and used Visual Studio. 
You certainly can't get by on RISC OS inserting printf's with programs 
of that complexity.

---druck

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#579

Fromcferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid
Date2011-07-28 08:57 +0100
Message-ID<f221c6f951.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>
In reply to#576
In message <00914df951.martin@bach.planiverse.com>
          Martin Wuerthner <spamtrap@mw-software.com> wrote:

> In message <13684af951.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>
>           cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
> 
> > In message <na.8c110e51f9.a903c0mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk>
> >           Mr John FO Evans <mijas@orpheusmail.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >> In article <7ab845f051.cferris@cferris.freeuk.com>,
> >> cferris@freeRemoveuk.com.invalid wrote:
> >>> Does anyone know which version of RO 4/6 the Acorn !DDT debugger
> >>> stops working.
> >>> 
> >> 
> >>   Colin
> >> 
> >>   I assume that someone has already answered this - but just in
> >>   case !DDT works on RO4 and Select but not on RO6xx
> 
> > So that leaves 32bit RO4xx and 6xx not working with !DDT.
> 
> > Is there a log showing what changes that have been made to 32bit RO4xx
> > and 26bit RO6xx ?
> 
> I do not think that would help much. DDT is not just any old program, 
> it is conceptually part of the OS because it reads and manipulates 
> internal OS data structures - which other programs are not allowed to 
> do. So, that means that each time any relevant internal OS data 
> structures have changed an updated version of DDT is required that 
> knows about these changes.
[snip]

Thanks for that - but with ref to Viewfinder - I've gone back to 1.44
(27 May 2002) (without testing them all) - bit of a guess - but at the
moment works ok.

Is there a list of ways to print to the screen available?

So it could be tested - which method/s might have been removed - in
later versions of Viewfinder - or indeed the OS.

Thanks
-- 
Colin Ferris Cornwall UK

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