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Programmewr wanted

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  Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 10:20 +0100
    Re: Programmewr wanted Harriet Bazley <harriet@bazleyfamily.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 11:32 +0100
      Re: Programmewr wanted druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2021-06-25 14:02 +0100
        Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 14:41 +0100
          Re: Programmewr wanted Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-06-25 15:11 +0100
            Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 17:02 +0100
              Re: Programmewr wanted Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-06-25 22:59 +0100
                Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 09:03 +0100
                  Re: Programmewr wanted Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> - 2021-06-26 10:00 +0100
                    Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 11:29 +0100
                      Re: Programmewr wanted Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2021-06-26 11:43 +0100
            Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-25 22:19 +0100
              Re: Programmewr wanted Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> - 2021-06-26 10:34 +0200
                Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-26 10:02 +0100
                  Re: Programmewr wanted Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> - 2021-06-26 18:48 +0200
                    Re: Programmewr wanted Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2021-06-27 10:18 +0100
                      Re: Programmewr wanted Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> - 2021-06-27 13:16 +0200
                      Re: Programmewr wanted Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2021-07-01 09:52 +0100
                        Re: Programmewr wanted Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> - 2021-07-02 17:04 +0200

#6276 — Programmewr wanted

I have a small programme, written a long time ago by a friend of mine,
that, for reasons of nostalgia, I would like to run on my Armbook. It was
originally written to run on an A3000 and seems to be largely in Basic. I
have tested it on my Strongarm RPC, RO4.39, and it appears to run but
attempts to run it on my Iyonix results in some "not 32 bit" errors.

I wonder if anyone would be prepared to take a look at it for me.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6277

On 25 Jun 2021 as I do recall,
          Stuart  wrote:

> I have a small programme, written a long time ago by a friend of mine,
> that, for reasons of nostalgia, I would like to run on my Armbook. It was
> originally written to run on an A3000 and seems to be largely in Basic. I
> have tested it on my Strongarm RPC, RO4.39, and it appears to run but
> attempts to run it on my Iyonix results in some "not 32 bit" errors.
> 

"Largely in Basic" - presumably it must have some in-line assembler in
it?


-- 
Harriet Bazley                     ==  Loyaulte me lie ==

Motorcar: a four-wheeled vehicle that runs up hills and down pedestrians

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#6278

On 25/06/2021 11:32, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> On 25 Jun 2021 as I do recall,
>            Stuart  wrote:
> 
>> I have a small programme, written a long time ago by a friend of mine,
>> that, for reasons of nostalgia, I would like to run on my Armbook. It was
>> originally written to run on an A3000 and seems to be largely in Basic. I
>> have tested it on my Strongarm RPC, RO4.39, and it appears to run but
>> attempts to run it on my Iyonix results in some "not 32 bit" errors.
>>
> 
> "Largely in Basic" - presumably it must have some in-line assembler in
> it?

If so it would just crash, a "not 32 bit" error suggests it's trying to 
load a 26 bit module (or possibly even run an a 26 bit AOF).

The first step is to look which modules it is trying to use, if it's not 
one that is specific to the application, it may already have been ported 
to 32 bit.

---druck

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#6279

In article <sb4k51$dfl$1@dont-email.me>,
   druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> On 25/06/2021 11:32, Harriet Bazley wrote:
> > On 25 Jun 2021 as I do recall,
> >            Stuart  wrote:
> > 
> >> I have a small programme, written a long time ago by a friend of
> >> mine, that, for reasons of nostalgia, I would like to run on my
> >> Armbook. It was originally written to run on an A3000 and seems to be
> >> largely in Basic. I have tested it on my Strongarm RPC, RO4.39, and
> >> it appears to run but attempts to run it on my Iyonix results in some
> >> "not 32 bit" errors.
> >>
> > 
> > "Largely in Basic" - presumably it must have some in-line assembler in
> > it?

> If so it would just crash, a "not 32 bit" error suggests it's trying to
> load a 26 bit module (or possibly even run an a 26 bit AOF).

> The first step is to look which modules it is trying to use, if it's not
> one that is specific to the application, it may already have been
> ported to 32 bit.

Within the app, is a folder called modules, these are:

ABCLIB 
The summary from ARMalyser says

---------------------------------
Statistics
---------------------------------
Size in words   :    3706  100.0%
Code            :    3407   91.9%
  surmised      :    3374   99.0%
  uses PSR      :      18    0.5%
  not ARM2/3    :       0    0.0%
  not 32 bit    :      18    0.5%
  unpredictable :       1    0.0%
Data            :     298    8.0%
  surmised      :     258   86.6%
Warnings        :      90   30.2%
Unidentified    :       1    0.0%
---------------------------------

FPEmulator 
ARMalyser says:

---------------------------------
Statistics
---------------------------------
Size in words   :    6234  100.0%
Code            :    5754   92.3%
  surmised      :    5693   98.9%
  uses PSR      :      67    1.2%
  not ARM2/3    :       0    0.0%
  not 32 bit    :      60    1.0%
  unpredictable :       7    0.1%
Data            :     471    7.6%
  surmised      :     428   90.9%
Warnings        :       0    0.0%
Unidentified    :       9    0.1%
---------------------------------

HardCopy
ARMalyser says

---------------------------------
Statistics
---------------------------------
Size in words   :     544  100.0%
Code            :     368   67.6%
  surmised      :       0    0.0%
  uses PSR      :       0    0.0%
  not ARM2/3    :       0    0.0%
  not 32 bit    :       0    0.0%
  unpredictable :       0    0.0%
Data            :     176   32.4%
  surmised      :      11    6.2%
Warnings        :       0    0.0%
Unidentified    :       0    0.0%
---------------------------------


And MemAlloc

ARMalyser says

---------------------------------
Statistics
---------------------------------
Size in words   :     652  100.0%
Code            :     132   20.2%
  surmised      :       0    0.0%
  uses PSR      :       1    0.8%
  not ARM2/3    :       0    0.0%
  not 32 bit    :       1    0.8%
  unpredictable :       0    0.0%
Data            :     520   79.8%
  surmised      :       0    0.0%
Warnings        :       0    0.0%
Unidentified    :       0    0.0%
---------------------------------

There are two Basic files called "Source" and "Runtest", and "Absolute"
file called KMC

ARMalyser says

---------------------------------
Statistics
---------------------------------
Size in words   :    8000  100.0%
Code            :    5554   69.4%
  surmised      :     256    4.6%
  uses PSR      :       0    0.0%
  not ARM2/3    :       0    0.0%
  not 32 bit    :       0    0.0%
  unpredictable :       0    0.0%
Data            :    2445   30.6%
  surmised      :    2414   98.7%
Warnings        :     582   23.8%
Unidentified    :       1    0.0%
---------------------------------

The !Run file says

  DIR $.!KLYSTRON
  ECHO <22> <12>
  ECHO <5>

  SCREENLOAD TITLE

  |RMENSURE MEMALLOC 0 RMLOAD MODULES.MEMALLOC
  SPRITESIZE 200K
  RMASIZE 150K
  RMENSURE ABCLIBRARY 0 RMLOAD MODULES.ABCLIB
  RMENSURE FPEMULATOR 0 RMLOAD MODULES.FPEMULATOR
  |RMENSURE HARDCOPY   0 RMLOAD MODULES.HARDCOPY
  SLOAD K_SPRITES
  RUN KMC

Also included are "K_SPRITES" and K_TABLE

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6280

Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>   DIR $.!KLYSTRON
>   ECHO <22> <12>
>   ECHO <5>
> 
>   SCREENLOAD TITLE
> 
>   |RMENSURE MEMALLOC 0 RMLOAD MODULES.MEMALLOC
>   SPRITESIZE 200K
>   RMASIZE 150K
>   RMENSURE ABCLIBRARY 0 RMLOAD MODULES.ABCLIB
>   RMENSURE FPEMULATOR 0 RMLOAD MODULES.FPEMULATOR
>   |RMENSURE HARDCOPY   0 RMLOAD MODULES.HARDCOPY
>   SLOAD K_SPRITES
>   RUN KMC

So that looks like KMC is compiled BASIC.

If you look at Source, does it look like it does what the program does - for
example do any strings match the messages printed by KMC?

It's possible Source is the BASIC input before it's been compiled, in which
case you can just replace

RUN KMC

with

Run Source

and it might work fine.

You can get rid of SpriteSize, RMAsize and the RMEnsures.  And just have
*ChangeDynamicArea -spritesize 200K
instead.  So, tidying things up a bit, your !Run looks a bit like:

Set Klystron$Dir <Obey$Dir>
Dir <Klystron$Dir>
Screenload <Klystron$Dir>.Title
ChangeDynamicArea -spritesize 200K
Sload <Klystron$Dir>.K_Sprites
Run <Klystron$Dir>.Source

Theo

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#6281

In article <vXB*gKxny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
   Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> >   |RMENSURE MEMALLOC 0 RMLOAD MODULES.MEMALLOC
> >   SPRITESIZE 200K
> >   RMASIZE 150K
> >   RMENSURE ABCLIBRARY 0 RMLOAD MODULES.ABCLIB
> >   RMENSURE FPEMULATOR 0 RMLOAD MODULES.FPEMULATOR
> >   |RMENSURE HARDCOPY   0 RMLOAD MODULES.HARDCOPY
> >   SLOAD K_SPRITES
> >   RUN KMC

Just noticed the | in front of a couple of lines. These were not in the
original, this was me trying to see what happened if I tried to prevent
them running.

The source file is definitely the source for the program, it starts:

REM >$.!KLYSTRON.SOURCE
 REM    KLYSTRON TUNING DEMO."
 REM    By P.E.Marshall, June 1986"
 REM    For Arc June 1990  Latest 6/7/90
 REM    With help from K.C.George.
 REM    Compatible with ABC Compiler
 
 ONERROR:MODE0:REPORT:PRINTERL:END
 REM    {NOESCAPECHECK}

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6282

Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> Just noticed the | in front of a couple of lines. These were not in the
> original, this was me trying to see what happened if I tried to prevent
> them running.
> 
> The source file is definitely the source for the program, it starts:

So it should probably run with the !Run file I provided, at least unless
there's any assembler in it.

Theo

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#6284

In article <xXB*Trzny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
   Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> > Just noticed the | in front of a couple of lines. These were not in the
> > original, this was me trying to see what happened if I tried to prevent
> > them running.
> > 
> > The source file is definitely the source for the program, it starts:

> So it should probably run with the !Run file I provided, at least unless
> there's any assembler in it.

Well, apart from my monitor not liking the display, it complains and
appears to be over-scanning in all directions, it appears to work here on
my Iyonix (normal resolution 1280x1024)

Thank you

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6287

On 26 Jun, Stuart wrote in message
    <5942889baeSpambin@argonet.co.uk>:

> Well, apart from my monitor not liking the display, it complains and
> appears to be over-scanning in all directions, it appears to work here on
> my Iyonix (normal resolution 1280x1024)

Try running it in GraphTask: https://armclub.org.uk/free/

-- 
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England

http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/

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#6288

In article <mpro.qvax0y00z90ob02zz.news@stevefryatt.org.uk>,
   Steve Fryatt <news@stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
> On 26 Jun, Stuart wrote in message
>     <5942889baeSpambin@argonet.co.uk>:

> > Well, apart from my monitor not liking the display, it complains and
> > appears to be over-scanning in all directions, it appears to work here on
> > my Iyonix (normal resolution 1280x1024)

> Try running it in GraphTask: https://armclub.org.uk/free/

I suspect that somewhere in the "Source" there may be a "Mode command". I
have downloaded !Zap and, when the grandchildren have gone to bed, I might
get a chance to have a look. We have both our grandsons, 7 and 3, while
their parents have gone away for the weekend.

Not much time to do anything while they are awake!

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6289

Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> I suspect that somewhere in the "Source" there may be a "Mode command". I
> have downloaded !Zap and, when the grandchildren have gone to bed, I might
> get a chance to have a look. We have both our grandsons, 7 and 3, while
> their parents have gone away for the weekend.

The old !Run has:
Echo <22><12>
Echo <5>

which is equivalent to
MODE 12
CLS

but there may well be a MODE command in the BASIC as well.  The 'loading
screen' is probably a MODE 12 sprite which I think would switch it to MODE
12 anyway.

Running in GraphTask sounds like a good idea, since it's a single tasking
program - solves these kind of problems and makes it more desktop friendly.

Theo

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#6283

In article <vXB*gKxny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
   Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Set Klystron$Dir <Obey$Dir>
> Dir <Klystron$Dir>
> Screenload <Klystron$Dir>.Title
> ChangeDynamicArea -spritesize 200K
> Sload <Klystron$Dir>.K_Sprites
> Run <Klystron$Dir>.Source

Well, apart from my monitor not liking the display, it complains and
appears to be over-scanning in all directions, it appears to work here on
my Iyonix (1280x1024)

Thank you

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6285

In message <59424da53cSpambin@argonet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <vXB*gKxny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>,
>    Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>> Set Klystron$Dir <Obey$Dir>
>> Dir <Klystron$Dir>
>> Screenload <Klystron$Dir>.Title
>> ChangeDynamicArea -spritesize 200K
>> Sload <Klystron$Dir>.K_Sprites
>> Run <Klystron$Dir>.Source

> Well, apart from my monitor not liking the display, it complains and
> appears to be over-scanning in all directions, it appears to work here on
> my Iyonix (1280x1024)

> Thank you
Interesting software. for short wave?

I am interested if this is possible?


-- 
Jean-Michel

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#6286

In article <07738b4259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
   Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
> > Thank you
> Interesting software. for short wave?

> I am interested if this is possible?

It is software for training people on how to tune Klystrons, as used in
high power TV transmitters.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6290

In message <59428e01bbSpambin@argonet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <07738b4259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
>    Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
>>> Thank you
>> Interesting software. for short wave?

>> I am interested if this is possible?

> It is software for training people on how to tune Klystrons, as used in
> high power TV transmitters.
I never used Klystron, but I knew they were used by my colleagues at TDF, 
when I was working our TV news was broadcast by Klystrons.
This is an opportunity to learn how they work with RISC OS.
For the anecdote an A540 was used by the broadcast control to insert 
Teletext equivalent of Ceefax.

-- 
Jean-Michel

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#6291

In article <f1b3b84259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
   Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
> In message <59428e01bbSpambin@argonet.co.uk>
>           Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <07738b4259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
> >    Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
> >>> Thank you
> >> Interesting software. for short wave?

> >> I am interested if this is possible?

> > It is software for training people on how to tune Klystrons, as used in
> > high power TV transmitters.

> I never used Klystron, but I knew they were used by my colleagues at
> TDF, when I was working our TV news was broadcast by Klystrons. This is
> an opportunity to learn how they work with RISC OS. For the anecdote an
> A540 was used by the broadcast control to insert Teletext equivalent of
> Ceefax.

Is this email address valid?

jmc.bruck@orange.fr

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#6292

In message <5943135c07Spambin@argonet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <f1b3b84259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
>    Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
>> In message <59428e01bbSpambin@argonet.co.uk>
>>           Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

>>> In article <07738b4259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>,
>>>    Jean-Michel <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:
>>>>> Thank you
>>>> Interesting software. for short wave?

>>>> I am interested if this is possible?

>>> It is software for training people on how to tune Klystrons, as used in
>>> high power TV transmitters.

>> I never used Klystron, but I knew they were used by my colleagues at
>> TDF, when I was working our TV news was broadcast by Klystrons. This is
>> an opportunity to learn how they work with RISC OS. For the anecdote an
>> A540 was used by the broadcast control to insert Teletext equivalent of
>> Ceefax.

> Is this email address valid?

> jmc.bruck@orange.fr

Yes, thanks



-- 
Jean-Michel

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#6293

In article <5943135c07Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
<Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <f1b3b84259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>, Jean-Michel
>    <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:


> > I never used Klystron, but I knew they were used by my colleagues at
> > TDF, when I was working our TV news was broadcast by Klystrons. This
> > is an opportunity to learn how they work with RISC OS. For the
> > anecdote an A540 was used by the broadcast control to insert Teletext
> > equivalent of Ceefax.

The only klystrons I've used output circa 115 GHz and were tuned with a
screwdriver that bent the metal cavity. 

Jim

-- 
Electronics  https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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#6294

In message <5945205a1cjcgl@audiomisc.co.uk>
          Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <5943135c07Spambin@argonet.co.uk>, Stuart
> <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <f1b3b84259.jmb@jmc.bruck.orange.fr>, Jean-Michel
>>    <jmc.bruck@orange.fr> wrote:


>>> I never used Klystron, but I knew they were used by my colleagues at
>>> TDF, when I was working our TV news was broadcast by Klystrons. This
>>> is an opportunity to learn how they work with RISC OS. For the
>>> anecdote an A540 was used by the broadcast control to insert Teletext
>>> equivalent of Ceefax.

> The only klystrons I've used output circa 115 GHz and were tuned with a
> screwdriver that bent the metal cavity.

Hi Jim

I knew you were a pro at GHz :-)
and also audio frequencies.
Good work.

-- 
Jean-Michel

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