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Sound hardware access for RO

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  Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-11 12:18 +0000
    Re: Sound hardware access for RO Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-01-11 12:30 +0000
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-11 13:43 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-01-11 22:35 +0000
          Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-12 10:08 +0000
            Re: Sound hardware access for RO Alan Wrigley <spamhater@keepyourfilthyspamtoyourself.co.uk> - 2012-01-12 17:57 +0000
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-13 12:05 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO Roger Darlington <rogerarm@freeuk.com> - 2012-04-03 09:03 +0100
          Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-04-03 09:53 +0100
    Re: Sound hardware access for RO John Kortink <kortink@inter.nl.net> - 2012-01-11 14:10 +0100
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-11 15:13 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-11 17:04 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO John Kortink <kortink@inter.nl.net> - 2012-01-11 19:58 +0100
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO "Ste (news)" <steve@revi11.plus.com> - 2012-01-15 17:14 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 07:11 +0100
    Re: Sound hardware access for RO druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-11 20:52 +0000
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-12 09:21 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-14 20:34 +0000
          Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 05:19 +0100
            Re: Sound hardware access for RO druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-15 12:30 +0000
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 13:38 +0000
                Re: Sound hardware access for RO druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 23:38 +0000
                  Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-18 09:37 +0000
                    Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jeremy Nicoll - news posts <jn.nntp.scrap007@wingsandbeaks.org.uk> - 2012-01-27 02:05 +0000
                      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-27 05:19 +0100
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 15:57 +0100
                Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 17:30 +0000
                  Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 07:22 +0100
                    Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 09:28 +0000
                    Re: Sound hardware access for RO Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 11:31 +0000
                      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 12:34 +0000
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-01-16 21:19 +0000
            Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 10:18 +0000
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Rick Murray <heyrickmail-usenet@yahoo.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 16:18 +0100
                Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 17:39 +0000
          Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-15 10:01 +0000
    Re: Sound hardware access for RO Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> - 2012-01-16 21:28 +0000
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 09:35 +0000
      Re: Sound hardware access for RO Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 11:37 +0000
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> - 2012-01-17 05:07 -0800
          Re: Sound hardware access for RO Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 16:46 +0000
            Re: Sound hardware access for RO Ron <beeb@woosh.co.nz> - 2012-01-18 11:22 +1300
              Re: Sound hardware access for RO Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> - 2012-01-17 23:42 +0000
                Re: Sound hardware access for RO Ron <beeb@woosh.co.nz> - 2012-01-18 13:47 +1300
        Re: Sound hardware access for RO Jim Lesurf <jcgl@audiomisc.co.uk> - 2012-01-17 12:36 +0000

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#1344

davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> wrote:
> What would be the best format in which to document the stack?  Is
> there any visual tool that might give a clearer view than a text document?

I quite like wiki, because it's good for doing frequenct occasional changes. 
You can make small amounts of progress whenever you have a spare 5 minutes
wherever you are, rather than having to sit down and commit documentation
with a version control system only on a machine that has the right files,
editor, VCS, etc.  Obviously it's not so great for commenting source code.

I don't know if there's a nice graphical tool... there's Graphviz or
UML-based tools, but I haven't really played with them.  Generic graphics
packages aren't ideal for this purpose, because a small change in structure
often requires a lot of rewiring by hand.

Theo

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#1347

In message <gUj*-LwXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
          Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> davehigton <davehigton14@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > What would be the best format in which to document the stack?  Is
> > there any visual tool that might give a clearer view than a text document?
> 
> I quite like wiki, because it's good for doing frequenct occasional changes. 
> You can make small amounts of progress whenever you have a spare 5 minutes
> wherever you are, rather than having to sit down and commit documentation
> with a version control system only on a machine that has the right files,
> editor, VCS, etc.  Obviously it's not so great for commenting source code.
> 
> I don't know if there's a nice graphical tool... there's Graphviz or
> UML-based tools, but I haven't really played with them.  Generic graphics
> packages aren't ideal for this purpose, because a small change in structure
> often requires a lot of rewiring by hand.
> 
> Theo

I have seen Latex mentioned for this, I know no more about it.

Regarding USB stacks, I have been keeping an eye on plan9 and minix
sources.
Plan9 have had USB2.0 for a while now. I dont think minix has much
USB support yet.

Plan9 though  unix based, has  a simpler and smaller code size
than Linux, but there are headers/libraries not covered by Unixlib.
I have ported the plan9 make which handles any plan9 native Mkfiles
if the Linux ones aren't available.
I am attracted by the fact there is no Linux complexities like Dbus
and they dont use X11 display servers, in fact they dont even have 
a Web browser yet.
There has been a few arm ports, but it has largely been 386 code,
so the asm libraries would need tuning in places I think.
It will only be a matter of time before a BB port is done.

Plan9 is used for OS educational purposes and may be helpful to learn
in parallel with RISC OS USB and if a relationship between the two
could be established, things like audio and Bluetooth stacks could
follow.


As a part-timer, I would be interested to hear from the more
experienced people on the matter. 
Plan9 may even be the type of base to build a new RISCOS with
multicore support and new filing systems etc ?

Ron M.

    
  

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#1354

Ron <beeb@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> In message <gUj*-LwXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
>           Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> I have seen Latex mentioned for this, I know no more about it.

I do, I've written a 220 page document in it[1].  LaTeX is very good at
structuring your document, and applying consistency to that document (for
example, scaling all your hundreds of figures by the same proportion could
be a one-line change).  But if you want to make things 'just so' it can
require a surprising amount of obscure code.  There are some quite funky
addon packages for doing diagrams (see, for example, pp 57, 69, 71, 90 [fig
4.11], 108, 114, 135 and 147) in the below which were all written in code
and formatted by LaTeX rather than in a graphics package [readers may spot a
few Draw-prepared diagrams on other pages too].

[1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-811.pdf

But I've yet to find a nice package for abstract block diagram drawing
(where you want it to look nice but don't want to specify where everything
goes exactly).  Some of the things on
http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/
are getting there (note the full source code of each example is on its page -
nothing more bar standard LaTeX and the TikZ graphics library are required).

> Regarding USB stacks, I have been keeping an eye on plan9 and minix
> sources.
> Plan9 have had USB2.0 for a while now. I dont think minix has much
> USB support yet.

With standards like USB there's a tradeoff between simplicity and device
support.  For example, Simtec USB is a nice and simple implementation, but
it doesn't work with very much (and when it does it needs the 'quirks'
settings of OtherDevs to tell it how).  Linux USB can drive a lot more, but
it has layer upon layer of support for different host controllers, different
protocols, broken devices, etc.  You don't get one without the other.

Theo

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#1356

In message <fUj*uhyXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
          Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Ron <beeb@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
> > In message <gUj*-LwXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> >           Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> > I have seen Latex mentioned for this, I know no more about it.
> 
> I do, I've written a 220 page document in it[1].  LaTeX is very good at
> structuring your document, and applying consistency to that document (for
> example, scaling all your hundreds of figures by the same proportion could
> be a one-line change).  But if you want to make things 'just so' it can
> require a surprising amount of obscure code.  There are some quite funky
> addon packages for doing diagrams (see, for example, pp 57, 69, 71, 90 [fig
> 4.11], 108, 114, 135 and 147) in the below which were all written in code
> and formatted by LaTeX rather than in a graphics package [readers may spot a
> few Draw-prepared diagrams on other pages too].
> 
> [1] http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/techreports/UCAM-CL-TR-811.pdf
> 
> But I've yet to find a nice package for abstract block diagram drawing
> (where you want it to look nice but don't want to specify where everything
> goes exactly).  Some of the things on
> http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/
> are getting there (note the full source code of each example is on its page -
> nothing more bar standard LaTeX and the TikZ graphics library are required).

Your pdf works better in PDF 3.02 than most doing similar things.
Exports to draw with images etc as well.
There are few odd characters appearing in bold, I have seen this on
other PDF's also.  p156, 'R1 is 10'   -the ohms has been lost.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by abstract block diagram drawing,
but AppolloneusPDT had dynamic resizing/positioning capabilities.
I once emailed them and I think they would let someone take over the
code. I imagine it would be impressive on the BB or the Iyonix.

I guess Vector and it's layers could do a bit, and it is currently
maintained. 

Ron M.

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#1342

In article <gUj*ADvXt@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Dave Higton <davehigton@dsl.pipex.com> wrote:
> > I realise that collaboration proportionally devalues any bounty, but I
> > can't imagine anyone working solely - or even mainly - to win the
> > bounty.  All those of us who would undertake any task such as this
> > does it for the love of it.  A bounty is just a nice bonus at the end.
> > 
> > And if any more people would like to collaborate, my suggestion is
> > that the first part of the task would be to document how the stack
> > works, and add block comments into the code.

> That sounds like a good idea.  USB support is essentially a core
> function these days: bringing up new boards increasingly depends on it. 
> So that documentation becomes useful in porting RISC OS to new
> platforms, as well as the more specialised task of this particular niche.

FWIW I'm quite willing to try and help with writing documentation. However
I do have a strength/weakness. I am clueless about the details of how the
USB should (or does) work. This is good in the sense that I'd be asking
idiot questions that - if I can understand the replies - could mean clearer
documentation. The snag is that I'd keep asking idiotic questions others
would have to answer in a way my feeble understanding could accept!

Slainte,

Jim

-- 
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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