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SSd or spinning rust

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  SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> - 2025-01-29 20:00 +0000
    Re: SSd or spinning rust Sniffer <sniffer@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2025-01-29 20:24 +0000
      Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-01-29 21:30 +0000
      Re: SSd or spinning rust Paul Sprangers <Paul@sprie.nl> - 2025-01-30 10:20 +0100
        Re: SSd or spinning rust Sniffer <sniffer@dewberryfields.co.uk> - 2025-01-30 09:34 +0000
    Re: SSd or spinning rust druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2025-01-29 21:29 +0000
      Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-01-30 09:00 +0000
        Re: SSd or spinning rust druck <news@druck.org.uk> - 2025-02-03 21:14 +0000
          Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-02-04 09:00 +0000
    Re: SSd or spinning rust David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2025-01-29 21:35 +0000
      Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-01-30 09:00 +0000
        Re: SSd or spinning rust David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2025-01-30 21:00 +0000
          Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-01-30 22:30 +0000
            Re: SSd or spinning rust David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> - 2025-01-30 22:34 +0000
              Re: SSd or spinning rust Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> - 2025-01-31 15:45 +0000

#7645 — SSd or spinning rust

Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities for
all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with all the
PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to my PC,
RISCOS filetypes are destroyed. I would, therefore, like to attach a large
external drive to my Ra-Pi, and copy on to that.

Now, I can buy a re-certified 3.5" 256G WD Caviar Blue, from CPC for
£10.49,
or,
A 2.5" Crucial MX500 250G SSD for £28.32 from the same company.

The question is, which to go for?

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7646

On 29/01/2025 20:00, Stuart wrote:
> Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities for
> all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with all the
> PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to my PC,
> RISCOS filetypes are destroyed. I would, therefore, like to attach a large
> external drive to my Ra-Pi, and copy on to that.
> 
> Now, I can buy a re-certified 3.5" 256G WD Caviar Blue, from CPC for
> £10.49,
> or,
> A 2.5" Crucial MX500 250G SSD for £28.32 from the same company.
> 
> The question is, which to go for?
> 

IMHO, SSD everytime. Don't forget to backup your backups though!

By the way, 500GB Crucial SSD for same price on Amazon.

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#7648

In article <vne2p3$2c51h$1@dont-email.me>,
   Sniffer <sniffer@dewberryfields.co.uk> wrote:
> On 29/01/2025 20:00, Stuart wrote:
> > Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities
> > for all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with
> > all the PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to
> > my PC, RISCOS filetypes are destroyed. I would, therefore, like to
> > attach a large external drive to my Ra-Pi, and copy on to that.
> > 
> > Now, I can buy a re-certified 3.5" 256G WD Caviar Blue, from CPC for
> > £10.49, or, A 2.5" Crucial MX500 250G SSD for £28.32 from the same
> > company.
> > 
> > The question is, which to go for?
> > 

> IMHO, SSD everytime. Don't forget to backup your backups though!

That is effectively what I am doing. The back-ups I have on the NAS, being
backed up to a portable drive. As well as the NAS, everything I do on the
Ra-Pi is also copied across to my ARMX6, ARMBook, and Kinetic. Similarly
with stuff created on the Kinetic and ARMX6.

I am inclined to go with you because an SSD would not require additional
power whereas a spinning rust drive would. 


> By the way, 500GB Crucial SSD for same price on Amazon.

Thanks but I try to avoid Amazon if I can, it's all too easy to find I
have signed up to Prime. CPC is an outfit I use quite a bit and, although
it wouldn't apply in this case, I can always find additional components to
exceed the £20 minimum order to get free postage.

Stuart.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7652

> Don't forget to backup your backups though!

That's what I regularly do - the backup as well as the forgetting.
My solution however is quite pricey: 500 Gbyte at pCloud, which costs a few
hundred pounds, but which will never rust or die.

From time to time, I use my Windows computer to copy the RISC OS backups on
the NAS to pCloud, from which I can access them on my 4té2 (directly
backing up from RISC OS is too slow). And of course, I benefit from all the
other features of pCloud. But yeah, it's not exactly cheap, albeit a one
time investment.

Paul

-- 
https://riscos.sprie.nl

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#7653

On 30/01/2025 09:20, Paul Sprangers wrote:
> 
>> Don't forget to backup your backups though!
> 
> That's what I regularly do - the backup as well as the forgetting.
> My solution however is quite pricey: 500 Gbyte at pCloud, which costs a few
> hundred pounds, but which will never rust or die.
> 
>  From time to time, I use my Windows computer to copy the RISC OS backups on
> the NAS to pCloud, from which I can access them on my 4té2 (directly
> backing up from RISC OS is too slow). And of course, I benefit from all the
> other features of pCloud. But yeah, it's not exactly cheap, albeit a one
> time investment.
> 
> Paul
> 

Remote backup's are essential for any _real_ disaster recovery plan.

I guess what people do depends on the perceived importance of the data, 
remembering of course, one's own time is extremely valuable!

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#7647

On 29/01/2025 20:00, Stuart wrote:
> Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities for
> all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with all the
> PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to my PC,
> RISCOS filetypes are destroyed.

They aren't!

All the common network filing systems LanManFS, Lanman98 and SunFish 
preserve RISC OS types by adding either DOS style file extension for 
types in the MimeMap file, or a ",xxx" hex code for other filetypes.

The one type which isn't preserved is untyped files (filing systems can 
support a ",lllllllleeeeeeeee" extension to preserve the load and exec 
values, but those don't). So the load and exec info is lost and the date 
stamps are nonsensical. Storing these in archives is the only workaround.

The other problem is non ASCII characters don't map bi-directionality, 
so programs which compare the local and remote drives wont see a correct 
match. The set of problem characters varies between filing systems. To 
get around this, you may need to do quite a bit of renaming so only the 
characters which work are used, otherwise stick the problem files in 
archives.

> I would, therefore, like to attach a large
> external drive to my Ra-Pi, and copy on to that.
> 
> Now, I can buy a re-certified 3.5" 256G WD Caviar Blue, from CPC for
> £10.49,
> or,
> A 2.5" Crucial MX500 250G SSD for £28.32 from the same company.
> 
> The question is, which to go for?

You will need to format it as FileCore format, as otherwise using 
FAT32FS will have same issues as the network filing systems described 
above. This will limit you to only formatting the drive to 256GB in 
practice.

What I would do is get 3 of the 256GB dives for the same price as the 
SSD, and rotate them so you have 3 backups of various ages (useful you 
don't notice you have deleted an important file until after a backup).

And make sure one of those drives is kept in a completely different 
location in case of disasters.

---druck

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#7650

In article <vne6iu$2i0ob$1@dont-email.me>,
   druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> You will need to format it as FileCore format, as otherwise using 
> FAT32FS will have same issues as the network filing systems described 
> above. This will limit you to only formatting the drive to 256GB in 
> practice.

That is my intention, hence the intention to purchase 256G drives rather
than anything larger

> What I would do is get 3 of the 256GB dives for the same price as the 
> SSD, and rotate them so you have 3 backups of various ages (useful you 
> don't notice you have deleted an important file until after a backup).

That is an interesting point, though, as I stated in my later post, files
are copied to all my RISCOS machines.

The only non RISCOS generated files I have, are photographs, which are
stored on one of the hard drives of my wife's PC, backed up to the NAS,
subsequently to a 4TB portable drive, and the original SSD cards are also
kept.

> And make sure one of those drives is kept in a completely different 
> location in case of disasters.

In my case, the obvious place would be my shed, which is around 30ft from
the house, insulated and heated. When back ups were smaller and I used CDs
and later DVDs, they were kept in "lock n lock" plastic boxes, in there.

S

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7659

On 30/01/2025 09:00, Stuart wrote:
> In article <vne6iu$2i0ob$1@dont-email.me>,
>     druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
>> And make sure one of those drives is kept in a completely different
>> location in case of disasters.
> 
> In my case, the obvious place would be my shed, which is around 30ft from
> the house, insulated and heated. When back ups were smaller and I used CDs
> and later DVDs, they were kept in "lock n lock" plastic boxes, in there.

I think that is a bit close when considering fire, flood, wind damage or 
burglary. I try to aim for somewhere at least 30 miles from the house!

---druck

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#7660

In article <vnrbjv$1f9qg$1@dont-email.me>,
   druck <news@druck.org.uk> wrote:
> > In my case, the obvious place would be my shed, which is around 30ft
> > from the house, insulated and heated. When back ups were smaller and I
> > used CDs and later DVDs, they were kept in "lock n lock" plastic
> > boxes, in there.

> I think that is a bit close when considering fire, flood, wind damage or 
> burglary. I try to aim for somewhere at least 30 miles from the house!

When I was working I kept backups (a handful of floppies in those days) in
my filing cabinet at work, 25 miles away, but the best I could manage now
would be at my eldest daughter's house about 10 miles away. I do want them
to be accessible, by other daughter, in Boston, is 2hrs drive away

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7649

In message <5be6f6d18dStuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:

> Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities for
> all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with all the
> PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to my PC, RISCOS
> filetypes are destroyed.

Go to https://davehigton.me.uk and look at DBack and DRest.

David

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#7651

In article <f18bffe65b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> In message <5be6f6d18dStuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk>
>           Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:

> > Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities
> > for all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with
> > all the PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to
> > my PC, RISCOS filetypes are destroyed.

> Go to https://davehigton.me.uk and look at DBack and DRest.

Are there any advantages over the functionality of !SafeStore, which I
already use?

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7654

In message <5be73df3f3Spambin@argonet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <f18bffe65b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
>   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> > In message <5be6f6d18dStuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk>
> >           Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > > Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up facilities
> > > for all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs stuff, along with
> > > all the PC stuff, from the NAS to a large portable drive connected to
> > > my PC, RISCOS filetypes are destroyed.
> 
> > Go to https://davehigton.me.uk and look at DBack and DRest.
> 
> Are there any advantages over the functionality of !SafeStore, which I
> already use?

I can't answer that because I don't know SafeStore.  I flagged it to
you because it would appear to do what you want - backups (and restores!)
with all the metadata exactly retained.

And if SafeStore doew what you want, why are you looking for something
else?  What facilities are missing?

David

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#7655

In article <9d3a80e75b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> In message <5be73df3f3Spambin@argonet.co.uk>
>           Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> > In article <f18bffe65b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
> >   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> > > In message <5be6f6d18dStuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk>
> > >           Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> > > > Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up
> > > > facilities for all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs
> > > > stuff, along with all the PC stuff, from the NAS to a large
> > > > portable drive connected to my PC, RISCOS filetypes are destroyed.
> > 
> > > Go to https://davehigton.me.uk and look at DBack and DRest.
> > 
> > Are there any advantages over the functionality of !SafeStore, which I
> > already use?

> I can't answer that because I don't know SafeStore.  I flagged it to
> you because it would appear to do what you want - backups (and restores!)
> with all the metadata exactly retained.

> And if SafeStore doew what you want, why are you looking for something
> else?  What facilities are missing?

If you read my original post, I wasn't looking for backup software, I was
pondering on whether to back up to SSD or spinning rust

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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#7656

In message <5be7878afcSpambin@argonet.co.uk>
          Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <9d3a80e75b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
>   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> > In message <5be73df3f3Spambin@argonet.co.uk>
> >           Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> > > In article <f18bffe65b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
> > >   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> > > > In message <5be6f6d18dStuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk>
> > > >           Stuart <Stuart.winsor@orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > Although I have a NAS, I am looking at additional back-up
> > > > > facilities for all my RISCOS stuff. Whilst I can copy my RISCOs
> > > > > stuff, along with all the PC stuff, from the NAS to a large
> > > > > portable drive connected to my PC, RISCOS filetypes are destroyed.
> > > 
> > > > Go to https://davehigton.me.uk and look at DBack and DRest.
> > > 
> > > Are there any advantages over the functionality of !SafeStore, which I
> > > already use?
> 
> > I can't answer that because I don't know SafeStore.  I flagged it to you
> > because it would appear to do what you want - backups (and restores!)
> > with all the metadata exactly retained.
> 
> > And if SafeStore doew what you want, why are you looking for something
> > else?  What facilities are missing?
> 
> If you read my original post, I wasn't looking for backup software, I was
> pondering on whether to back up to SSD or spinning rust

... because, when you backed up to the PC, "RISCOS filetypes are destroyed".
So I'm offering you something that will back up to, and restore from, a
PC while keeping the file types etc. prefectly intact.

David

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#7657

In article <a4d188e75b.DaveMeUK@BeagleBoard-xM>,
   David Higton <dave@davehigton.me.uk> wrote:

> ... because, when you backed up to the PC, "RISCOS filetypes are
> destroyed". So I'm offering you something that will back up to, and
> restore from, a PC while keeping the file types etc. prefectly intact.

Let me explain.

Backing up and retrieving from my NAS is not a problem, but, periodically,
I back up my NAS to an NTFS format portable drive, via my PC. It is those
backups when the RISCOS file types get screwed.

What I intend to do is to get a 256G SSD or HDD, formatted to RISCOS
format and back up to that, avoiding windows getting involved at all. So,
the question is SSD or spinning rust, which is better for long time
storage, bearing in mind a S.R. drive would require more power, hence an
additional external PSU, whereas an SSD would probably be Ok on the USB3
port of my Ra-Pi. Yes I'm aware RISCOS cannot make use of USB3 speed, but
the port is capable of supplying higher power than the USB2 of my ARMX6.

-- 
Stuart Winsor

Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/

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