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Re: PRI* considered harmful

From Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org>
Newsgroups comp.std.c
Subject Re: PRI* considered harmful
Date 2011-07-11 11:56 -0700
Organization None to speak of
Message-ID <lnpqlgve7z.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> (permalink)
References <87mxgqhk3x.fsf@once.weird.com> <ln62nbyj5g.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <874o2vc7ab.fsf@once.weird.com> <lnhb6ux57t.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org> <ivfg2r$ej7$1@dont-email.me>

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Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> writes:
> Keith Thompson wrote:
[snip]
>> Sure, there's no problem *in an LP64I32 environment*.  That's not
>> the environment I was talking about.  I'm talking about a (perhaps
>> hypothetical) environment where int and long are the same size but
>> nevertheless have different characteristics.  Does printf need to
>> know the difference?  It depends on just how they differ.  The C
>> standard allows for a lot of variation.
>>
>> Maybe your proposal would actually work on every environment
>> that exists in the real world.  But for it to be adopted, the
>> standard would have to make sigificant changes to the requirements
>> it imposes on implementations for the behavior of integer types,
>> which implies a great deal of work to update the standard with the
>> revised assumptions.
>
> That's why I'd rather propose, instead of size, an enumeration with 
> distinct (implementation-defined) values for each valid type supported 
> by the implementation.  A standardized macro could then map expression 
> type to an enumeration constant via the C1X generic selection construct 
> (i.e. no compiler magic needed); as an added benefit, the macro would 
> catch cases when a completely wrong type, like a floating-point or 
> structure type, is passed to a specifier that expects only integer types.

But that wouldn't handle user-defined integer types, something that
Greg's original proposal was *intended* to do.

I'm not sure I see the benefit of the enumeration.  It seems like
just another set of semi-arbitrary names associated with each
integer type.  For predefined types, we already have the *_MIN
and *_MAX macros and the various printf strings ("d" for int, "ld"
for long int, and so forth).  For the types defined in <stdint.h>,
we have the PRI* and SCN* macros.  For all of these, some attempt
has been made to make the names or strings have some meaningful
relationship to the types, but it's not at all straightforward;
we have SHRT_MAX rather than SHORT_MAX, and LLONG_MAX rather than
LONG_LONG_MAX, for example.

I don't think a universal solution is likely to happen (especially
since we don't have the option of dropping the existing mess) --
but if I were designing C from scratch, I'd want to have a mechanism
for determining all these things from the type name itself (and it
could also be applied to an expression of the type).

Ada, for example, has something called "attributes", whose syntax
is a prefix, followed by an apostrophe, followed by a predefined
attribute name.  The maximum values of types Character, Integer, and
Float are Character'Last, Integer'Last, and Float'Last, respectively.

We couldn't use that particular syntax for C, but something that
looks like a macro invocation but is actually handled by the compiler
might do the trick: MAX(int), MAX(long int), etc.  Then PRId(foo)
would expand to the correct printf conversion specifier for any
signed integer type "foo".

> Not that I really believe such a proposal would have any chance of being 
> accepted by WG14 at the current state of things - there's no existing 
> practice.

-- 
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

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Thread

PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-06 19:58 -0700
  Re: PRI* considered harmful William Ahern <william@wilbur.25thandClement.com> - 2011-07-06 20:38 -0700
    Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-06 22:26 -0700
      Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-07 08:52 +0200
        Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 14:11 -0700
          Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-08 11:58 +0200
        Re: PRI* considered harmful lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-07 17:58 -0400
          Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-08 12:02 +0200
      Re: PRI* considered harmful lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-07 17:57 -0400
        Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-07 15:42 -0700
          Re: PRI* considered harmful lawrence.jones@siemens.com - 2011-07-08 08:56 -0400
  Re: PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 06:36 -0400
    Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 12:59 -0700
      Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-07 14:12 -0700
        Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 15:49 -0700
          Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-07 16:46 -0700
            Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 18:26 -0700
              Re: PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-07 22:35 -0400
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-07 20:58 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Wojtek Lerch <wojtek_l@yahoo.ca> - 2011-07-08 00:28 -0400
                Re: PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-08 07:41 -0400
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-08 23:05 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 00:50 -0700
                Re: [incorrectly implementd] PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-09 06:38 -0400
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2011-07-09 21:07 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-08 09:52 -0700
              Re: PRI* considered harmful Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-08 11:45 +0100
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-08 23:14 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 00:47 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-09 10:51 +0100
                Re: PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-09 06:43 -0400
              Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-08 09:49 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-08 23:24 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 00:45 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-09 16:18 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 18:57 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-13 09:37 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful James Kuyper <jameskuyper@verizon.net> - 2011-07-09 06:46 -0400
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Harald van Dijk <truedfx@gmail.com> - 2011-07-09 08:09 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Phil Carmody <thefatphil_demunged@yahoo.co.uk> - 2011-07-11 16:00 +0300
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2011-07-09 20:59 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 12:22 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Hans-Bernhard Bröker <HBBroeker@t-online.de> - 2011-07-09 21:32 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 12:54 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-09 23:39 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-09 16:56 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-09 16:52 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 18:53 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-10 14:12 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 20:22 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Gustedt <Jens.Gustedt@loria.fr> - 2011-07-10 13:57 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-09 16:49 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Jens Schweikhardt <usenet@schweikhardt.net> - 2011-07-19 19:28 +0000
      Re: PRI* considered harmful Tim Rentsch <txr@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2011-07-07 14:13 -0700
  Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 01:04 -0700
    Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-09 17:23 -0700
      Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-09 19:03 -0700
        Re: PRI* considered harmful Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 20:40 +0200
          Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-11 11:56 -0700
            Re: PRI* considered harmful Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 21:40 +0200
              Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-11 13:16 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Marcin Grzegorczyk <mgrzegor@poczta.onet.pl> - 2011-07-11 23:29 +0200
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-11 14:46 -0700
              Re: PRI* considered harmful "Greg A. Woods" <woods@robohack.org> - 2011-07-12 22:18 -0700
                Re: PRI* considered harmful Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> - 2011-07-13 09:00 -0700
  Re: PRI* considered harmful Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2011-07-09 20:30 +0100

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