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How to get one interested in programming!

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  How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-06-29 22:49 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 10:39 +0200
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-06-30 06:58 -0700
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 23:17 +0200
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 19:28 +0000
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:09 -0700
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 00:45 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! rossum <rossum48@coldmail.com> - 2011-06-30 10:18 +0100
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-01 00:49 -0700
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-01 05:19 -0700
          Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:26 -0700
            Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-03 06:38 -0700
              Re: How to get one interested in programming! Patricia Shanahan <pats@acm.org> - 2011-07-03 09:03 -0700
                Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:29 -0700
                  Re: How to get one interested in programming! Joe Wright <joewwright@comcast.net> - 2011-07-03 20:04 -0400
                    Re: How to get one interested in programming! "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-07-03 17:06 -0700
                    Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-05 22:17 -0700
                      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-07 04:31 -0700
                        Re: How to get one interested in programming! "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-07-11 22:23 -0700
                          Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 00:32 -0700
                            Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-12 00:50 -0700
                              Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-13 00:36 -0700
                          Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris M. Thomasson" <cristom@charter.net> - 2011-07-12 00:52 -0700
                          Re: How to get one interested in programming! blmblm@myrealbox.com <blmblm.myrealbox@gmail.com> - 2011-07-12 23:39 +0000
        Re: How to get one interested in programming! "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2011-07-02 11:46 +0100
          Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:27 -0700
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:51 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! Sherm Pendley <sherm.pendley@gmail.com> - 2011-06-30 09:52 -0400
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 00:50 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! Jongware <jongware@no-spam.plz> - 2011-06-30 17:05 +0200
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:16 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! JJ <jaejunks@googlemail.com> - 2011-07-01 02:31 +0700
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 01:20 -0700
    Re: How to get one interested in programming! Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-03 12:02 +0200
      Re: How to get one interested in programming! vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> - 2011-07-03 12:07 -0700

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#642

> "vaib" <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> wrote in message 
> news:e5fafcc3-96e8-48bb-ab01-> 
> 6a284a2f8ab6@e20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 12, 10:23 am, "James" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> > [...]
v>
> > > So any project ideas for the newbie ?
> >
> > Life is too short?

> Yes it is short James. What did you think?

One of the first "real" programs I created was for my neighbor. He had 
possession of many _cool_ Atari games... My neighbor wanted to be able to 
track everything he lent out... ... ...

App in need? Perhaps indeed!  ;^) 

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#646

On Jul 12, 12:50 pm, "Chris M. Thomasson" <cris...@charter.net> wrote:
> > "vaib" <vaibhavpang...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:e5fafcc3-96e8-48bb-ab01->
> > 6a284a2f8...@e20g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > On Jul 12, 10:23 am, "James" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> > > [...]
> v>
> > > > So any project ideas for the newbie ?
>
> > > Life is too short?
> > Yes it is short James. What did you think?
>
> One of the first "real" programs I created was for my neighbor. He had
> possession of many _cool_ Atari games... My neighbor wanted to be able to
> track everything he lent out... ... ...
>
> App in need? Perhaps indeed!  ;^)

Nice  :)

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#643

"James" <no@spam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:ivglo6$m6s$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> [...]
>
>> So any project ideas for the newbie ?
>
> Life is too short?

Maybe it is! 

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#645

In article <ivglo6$m6s$1@speranza.aioe.org>, James <no@spam.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
> 
> > So any project ideas for the newbie ?
> 
> Life is too short? 

"Too short not to spend some of it coding!" ?

("Get a life"?  Well, maybe so.)

-- 
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer:  I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

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#577

vaib wrote:

> Am I doing it right ?

Don't ask us, ask her !

    -- chris 

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#598

On Jul 2, 6:46 am, "Chris Uppal" <chris.up...@metagnostic.REMOVE-
THIS.org> wrote:
> vaib wrote:
> > Am I doing it right ?
>
> Don't ask us, ask her !
>
>     -- chris

Hey Chris, thats pretty obvious I guess. She says its good. But I came
here for better advise than my brain could give me!

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#593

On Jun 30, 5:18 am, rossum <rossu...@coldmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Jun 2011 22:49:37 -0700 (PDT), vaib
>
>
>
>
>
> <vaibhavpang...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Hey there,
>
> >Long time.
>
> >So I am faced with a rather strange problem this time. it's not
> >related to any coding task. I got interested in programming as a kid.
> >We used to get exercises to do in the class and the sense of
> >competition and making better programs was the kind of drive that got
> >me interested in programming.
>
> >Now I have a question for a friend of mine. Now she is a non-
> >programmer and has taken entry to a bachelors in technology course.
> >The only problem is that she hasn't got the kind of exposure one
> >should have for programming. She has never programmed and picking up
> >these think language books scares the shit out of her and I personally
> >think is not the way to go.
>
> >So how can I get her interested? I mean I thought that I could simply
> >provide her with a few very easy coding tasks like - printing
> >fibonacci, printing multiples of 3 and so on ...and then when she'd
> >see that she can actually solve something and see it happen on the
> >system then probably she'd find the drive for more!
>
> >Am I wrong in my approach? Is there any other approach like, you know,
> >building some small codes and then stitching them in the end that
> >could probably result in a small project one could a little excited
> >about?
>
> >What's your say on this? I only post on usenet when it's absolutely
> >necessary.
>
> >Thanking in anticipation.
>
> Some ideas:
>
>   - Avoid specific language initially, use pseudocode.
>
>   - Use everyday tasks: make a cup of coffee
>        begin
>        find a cup
>        if (cup is dirty) then wash cup.
>        ...
>
>   - Does she have a hobby?  Make a simple catalogue for her hobby.
>
> rossum

Oh she has hobbies. She likes to draw, likes music and so on.

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#561

vaib <vaibhavpanghal@gmail.com> writes:

> So how can I get her interested?

With all due respect, why would you want to? Why not encourage her to
study whatever she *is* interested in?

sherm--

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#592

On Jun 30, 9:52 am, Sherm Pendley <sherm.pend...@gmail.com> wrote:
> vaib <vaibhavpang...@gmail.com> writes:
> > So how can I get her interested?
>
> With all due respect, why would you want to? Why not encourage her to
> study whatever she *is* interested in?
>
> sherm--

Sherm, she is already enrolled in the course!

So, I've been giving her some programs to write like find nth
fibonacci number, find the first n prime numbers and so on .... some
on arrays too.....and she seems to be doing pretty fine. In fact, she
loved the process of using her brain in an original way. She knows
some C and thinks about the possible solution to the problem and codes
it in C - and it's going on fine. She seems a little more interested
as the day passes. Keeping my fingers crossed !

So, it would be great if I could somehow come up with some sort of a
small project idea that she could do. Small, but worth mentioning.
That would be a great boost for her.

Any ideas on this ?

Thanks a lot people for understanding and replying here(which is why I
didn't go anywhere else)!

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#563

On 30-Jun-11 7:49 AM, vaib wrote:
 > ...
> So how can I get her interested? I mean I thought that I could simply
> provide her with a few very easy coding tasks like - printing
> fibonacci, printing multiples of 3 and so on ...and then when she'd
> see that she can actually solve something and see it happen on the
> system then probably she'd find the drive for more!

Be realistic. Is it possibly to *make* something interesting to anyone?

I don't know a lot about money. I don't /spend/ it -- i.e., I don't 
throw it around willy-nilly -- and so it seems I have enough of it to 
buy whatever I like, as long as I don't suddenly get a craving for stuff 
such as a new Ferrari.
Does the subject of "money" interest me? Getting more money, evading 
taxes, grand financial schemes, or even my pension fund? Nah -- and no 
chance anyone can make this interesting for me either.

If despite your valiant efforts, your friend still cannot be made to 
like programming, have her find a hobby she actually does like.

[Jw]

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#595

On Jun 30, 11:05 am, Jongware <jongw...@no-spam.plz> wrote:
> On 30-Jun-11 7:49 AM, vaib wrote:
>  > ...
>
> > So how can I get her interested? I mean I thought that I could simply
> > provide her with a few very easy coding tasks like - printing
> > fibonacci, printing multiples of 3 and so on ...and then when she'd
> > see that she can actually solve something and see it happen on the
> > system then probably she'd find the drive for more!
>
> Be realistic. Is it possibly to *make* something interesting to anyone?
>
> I don't know a lot about money. I don't /spend/ it -- i.e., I don't
> throw it around willy-nilly -- and so it seems I have enough of it to
> buy whatever I like, as long as I don't suddenly get a craving for stuff
> such as a new Ferrari.
> Does the subject of "money" interest me? Getting more money, evading
> taxes, grand financial schemes, or even my pension fund? Nah -- and no
> chance anyone can make this interesting for me either.
>
> If despite your valiant efforts, your friend still cannot be made to
> like programming, have her find a hobby she actually does like.
>
> [Jw]

With all due respect, you're wrong !

People can be made interested in something..It's the teacher who has
to be more responsible. We don't just get interested in stuff right
from the womb itself. We come on earth, discover stuff and get
interested in it! And sometimes you need a teacher - I am just trying
to be one.

Thanks for your opinion, by the way.

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#564

vaib wrote:
> Hey there,
> 
> Long time.
> 
> So I am faced with a rather strange problem this time. it's not
> related to any coding task. I got interested in programming as a kid.
> We used to get exercises to do in the class and the sense of
> competition and making better programs was the kind of drive that got
> me interested in programming.
[snip]

It's hard to get a person into programming if he/she doesn't have any 
interest on it.

One method you might want to try is to teach her how to solve her 
computer problems via programming. For starter, this can be as simple as 
Excel formula. Then as new problem got more complex, teach her how to 
use macros. This will indirectly teach her the BASIC language including 
some of the VB language.

HTH.

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#596

On Jun 30, 3:31 pm, JJ <jaeju...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> vaib wrote:
> > Hey there,
>
> > Long time.
>
> > So I am faced with a rather strange problem this time. it's not
> > related to any coding task. I got interested in programming as a kid.
> > We used to get exercises to do in the class and the sense of
> > competition and making better programs was the kind of drive that got
> > me interested in programming.
>
> [snip]
>
> It's hard to get a person into programming if he/she doesn't have any
> interest on it.
>
> One method you might want to try is to teach her how to solve her
> computer problems via programming. For starter, this can be as simple as
> Excel formula. Then as new problem got more complex, teach her how to
> use macros. This will indirectly teach her the BASIC language including
> some of the VB language.
>
> HTH.

Yup, we are concentrating on problem solving rather than sticking to
some syntax. She seems to be somewhat enjoying using her brain !

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#601

On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 22:49 -0700, vaib wrote:
 
<snip>
> Now I have a question for a friend of mine. Now she is a non-
> programmer and has taken entry to a bachelors in technology course.
> The only problem is that she hasn't got the kind of exposure one
> should have for programming. She has never programmed and picking up
> these think language books scares the shit out of her and I personally
> think is not the way to go.
> 
> So how can I get her interested?

I used to teach programming to adults so there is some experience behind
these other otherwise random remarks.

1.  Be encouraging.  If your encouragement does not sound over the top
to you, you are probably holding back too much!  Obviously avoid
sounding patronising, but fear of a task you may have been led to
believe is beyond you is a powerful thing and it needs to chipped away
at relentlessly.

2.  Pick the right problem domain for examples and exercises.  Number
sequences are good if she is a mathematician, but can be deadly dull to
others.  I found an almost universal solution in graphics.  I wrote a
very simple graphics "library"[1] and the students used it to draw
pictures.  They got to choose the pictures -- but they has to structure
the program in a way that suited the image.  If there were duplicated
elements, I'd want to see a function (yes, function were taught first
because anything else).  Variation of an element should be done via
parameters.  Loops should be used for repeated elements where the
repeated had a pattern, and so on.

This was good for a large class so its merit was its wide (but by no
means universal) appeal.  You are dealing with one person so you can
probably be more specific.  If words are more her thing there are a lots
options there -- a simple hangman game, word counting, word stemming,
spell checking, crossword puzzle design and/or solvers.  If it's music,
here's another whole world of interesting computer programs waiting to
be written.

3.  Some analogies can be helpful. Everyone knows about programs --
though not always computer programs.  Sheet music is a program for a
machine called a pianist.  A knitting pattern, when executed by the
right machine, has a jumper as its output.  A recipe, is a program for a
meal.  These analogies stress that programming is creative -- you are
the composer, the clothes designer, the innovative chef.  (BTW, all of
these exhibit a close parallel to computer programs.  You can find in
them parametrized functions, modules, loops and so on.)

4.  Sadly, some people just never seem to get programming.  I've seen
this only a few times (the students were self selecting as wanting to
learn it so I suspect it more widespread than I every noticed).  It
could always be bad teaching, after many years and many students I've
decided I think there really are some people who won't ever make
programmers.  I don't mean won't make good ones -- good anything are
rare -- I mean won't write anything but the simplest program, and that
with a lot of help.

5.  At the risk of trotting out stereotypes, men tend to over-estimate
their understanding (the gist will do and is taken as having understood)
while women tend under-estimate it (any slight doubt and the whole idea
seems shakey, even if they could apply it right away).  Don't take "I'm
not sure I've got that" literally -- get the student to try it and see.
I had a student with a PhD in Astrophysics who said that all the time
and she "got" it better than most of the class most of the time.

<snip>
[1] A C++ class in fact.

-- 
Ben
(Away from home Usenet feed: reading and posting likely to be erratic.)

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#606

On Jul 3, 3:02 pm, Ben Bacarisse <ben.use...@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 22:49 -0700, vaib wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Now I have a question for a friend of mine. Now she is a non-
> > programmer and has taken entry to a bachelors in technology course.
> > The only problem is that she hasn't got the kind of exposure one
> > should have for programming. She has never programmed and picking up
> > these think language books scares the shit out of her and I personally
> > think is not the way to go.
>
> > So how can I get her interested?
>
> I used to teach programming to adults so there is some experience behind
> these other otherwise random remarks.
>
> 1.  Be encouraging.  If your encouragement does not sound over the top
> to you, you are probably holding back too much!  Obviously avoid
> sounding patronising, but fear of a task you may have been led to
> believe is beyond you is a powerful thing and it needs to chipped away
> at relentlessly.
>
> 2.  Pick the right problem domain for examples and exercises.  Number
> sequences are good if she is a mathematician, but can be deadly dull to
> others.  I found an almost universal solution in graphics.  I wrote a
> very simple graphics "library"[1] and the students used it to draw
> pictures.  They got to choose the pictures -- but they has to structure
> the program in a way that suited the image.  If there were duplicated
> elements, I'd want to see a function (yes, function were taught first
> because anything else).  Variation of an element should be done via
> parameters.  Loops should be used for repeated elements where the
> repeated had a pattern, and so on.
>
> This was good for a large class so its merit was its wide (but by no
> means universal) appeal.  You are dealing with one person so you can
> probably be more specific.  If words are more her thing there are a lots
> options there -- a simple hangman game, word counting, word stemming,
> spell checking, crossword puzzle design and/or solvers.  If it's music,
> here's another whole world of interesting computer programs waiting to
> be written.
>
> 3.  Some analogies can be helpful. Everyone knows about programs --
> though not always computer programs.  Sheet music is a program for a
> machine called a pianist.  A knitting pattern, when executed by the
> right machine, has a jumper as its output.  A recipe, is a program for a
> meal.  These analogies stress that programming is creative -- you are
> the composer, the clothes designer, the innovative chef.  (BTW, all of
> these exhibit a close parallel to computer programs.  You can find in
> them parametrized functions, modules, loops and so on.)
>
> 4.  Sadly, some people just never seem to get programming.  I've seen
> this only a few times (the students were self selecting as wanting to
> learn it so I suspect it more widespread than I every noticed).  It
> could always be bad teaching, after many years and many students I've
> decided I think there really are some people who won't ever make
> programmers.  I don't mean won't make good ones -- good anything are
> rare -- I mean won't write anything but the simplest program, and that
> with a lot of help.
>
> 5.  At the risk of trotting out stereotypes, men tend to over-estimate
> their understanding (the gist will do and is taken as having understood)
> while women tend under-estimate it (any slight doubt and the whole idea
> seems shakey, even if they could apply it right away).  Don't take "I'm
> not sure I've got that" literally -- get the student to try it and see.
> I had a student with a PhD in Astrophysics who said that all the time
> and she "got" it better than most of the class most of the time.
>
> <snip>
> [1] A C++ class in fact.
>
> --
> Ben
> (Away from home Usenet feed: reading and posting likely to be erratic.)

Hey Ben,

That was really good advise. Thanks a lot for it. By the way, she
likes to draw. So probably images could be her thing. And I think that
making some useful program that could also be used to solve some daily
task could be an encouraging way too (like a phonebook or
something) !

I'd encourage her more. Its the most important thing actually !

Thanks again.

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