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Re: really? (lame question about primes)

From David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups comp.programming
Subject Re: really? (lame question about primes)
Date 2015-09-02 15:47 +0200
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <ms6uia$57r$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <ms6f8u$umv$1@speranza.aioe.org> <lwzFx.371089$0B6.10953@fx27.am4> <ms6ov4$evq$1@dont-email.me> <yPBFx.319631$IK6.308401@fx46.am4> <ms6rm0$td4$1@speranza.aioe.org>

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On 02/09/15 14:56, bartekltg wrote:
> On 02.09.2015 14:19, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> On 02/09/2015 13:12, David Brown wrote:
>>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> There are a number of ways of doing this check faster than the
>>> bit-for-bit long division you suggested elsewhere,
>>
>> The advantage of that way is that it's easy to explain, and relatively
>> easy to implement. Having said that, I *haven't* implemented it (in
>> software). My bignum library uses Algorithm D, from TAOCP II.
> 
> I think explain something by using wrong algorithm can hurt
> someone who think, so propably everyone who is listening to
> 'how to factorize an integer;-)'
> 
> But we can resurect this idea.
> 
> Table of all n-digits prime can be too big for the universe,
> so we have to generate it. One ot the simplest method is
> to implement 'nextprime' - function that get the next odd*)
> number and run fast primality test (Miller-Rabin),
> repeat it until the number is pseudoprime.
> 

The principle here is that to find the factors of C, we run through all
primes A up to sqrt(C), and test if C % A == 0.  (It may be that there
are other faster algorithms, but I don't know of any.)  If you know for
sure the number of digits in A, then you could start 10^(noOfDigits-1),
but that would only save 10% of the test time.

Testing for the primality of each A is going to take a great deal more
time than simply trying C % A == 0, even with a probable prime test.  It
is simply not worth doing.

What would be worth doing, I think, is to keep a track of A % p for p in
the first n primes.  As you run through the A's, adding 2 to A each
step, you add 2 to each of these remainders in your tracking array.  If
these hit 0 (modulo their prime), then A is clearly non-prime and you
can skip it.  This will let you skip a number of your test divisions
with relatively little work - as you make that array of n primes bigger,
you cut out yet more divisions.  However, there is going to be a point
where doing this tracking for the modulo A % p will cost more (in memory
or speed) than 1/p times the cost of calculating C % A - and when you
reach that, you don't want to track any more modulos.

I suspect there is scope for some interesting data structures to hold
this list of modulos, rather than a simple array - perhaps a priority
queue in a Fibonacci heap?



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Thread

really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-08-31 12:07 -0700
  Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-08-31 23:23 +0100
    Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 01:18 -0700
      Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-01 11:01 +0200
        Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 12:20 +0100
          Re: really? (lame question about primes) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-01 15:48 +0100
            Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 13:26 -0700
              Re: really? (lame question about primes) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-02 02:12 -0500
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 08:38 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 14:03 +0200
          Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 13:24 -0700
            Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 22:27 +0100
              Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 15:02 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-01 23:20 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 01:22 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-01 17:18 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 02:19 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) James Dow Allen <gmail@jamesdowallen.nospam> - 2015-09-02 12:42 +0000
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-02 14:21 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Johannes Bauer <dfnsonfsduifb@gmx.de> - 2015-09-02 17:45 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-02 18:06 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2015-09-03 17:05 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 02:18 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 22:37 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 23:49 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-04 00:18 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-04 08:25 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 14:36 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2015-09-02 16:49 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 17:32 +0100
            Re: really? (lame question about primes) Kaz Kylheku <kaz@kylheku.com> - 2015-09-01 22:55 +0000
              Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 01:15 +0200
          Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 03:19 +0200
            Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 02:37 +0100
              Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 11:24 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 10:42 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) fir <profesor.fir@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 03:01 -0700
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 12:28 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 14:12 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 13:19 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 14:56 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 15:47 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 16:27 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-02 16:37 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-02 17:01 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-03 10:55 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-03 10:05 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-03 11:49 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-03 10:54 +0100
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2015-09-03 13:22 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) bartekltg <bartek@gmail.com> - 2015-09-03 13:58 +0200
                Re: really? (lame question about primes) Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2015-09-02 13:34 +0100
  Re: really? (lame question about primes) Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-31 23:10 -0500

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