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Groups > comp.programming.threads > #7428 > unrolled thread

Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C

Started byAmine Moulay Ramdane <aminer68@gmail.com>
First post2022-02-28 08:43 -0800
Last post2022-03-04 11:35 +0100
Articles 16 on this page of 36 — 13 participants

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Contents

  Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Amine Moulay Ramdane <aminer68@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 08:43 -0800
    Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 18:44 +0100
      Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 19:26 -0600
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C rthiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2022-02-28 20:29 -0500
          Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-02-28 20:23 -0600
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-03-01 11:34 +0000
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 14:31 +0100
              Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-03-01 17:25 +0100
                Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 18:13 +0100
                  Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-03-01 19:42 +0100
                    Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 19:56 +0100
                    Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> - 2022-03-03 21:41 +0000
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-03-01 15:14 +0000
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Kaz Kylheku <480-992-1380@kylheku.com> - 2022-03-01 01:37 +0000
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2022-03-01 05:11 +0000
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 08:31 +0100
      Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-03-01 22:45 -0600
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 05:46 +0100
          Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-03-02 13:47 +0000
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C rthiebaud <thiebauddick2@aol.com> - 2022-03-02 13:06 -0500
              Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bart <bc@freeuk.com> - 2022-03-02 19:19 +0000
                Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 19:32 -0600
                  Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C "Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org> - 2022-03-03 14:56 +1100
                  Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 14:02 +0100
                Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Manfred <noname@add.invalid> - 2022-03-03 15:09 +0100
                  Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 15:14 +0100
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 19:17 +0100
          Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-03-02 14:42 +0000
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 19:18 +0100
              Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2022-03-02 18:33 +0000
                Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 19:39 +0100
                  Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-03-02 11:05 -0800
      Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 12:25 -0800
        Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 21:37 +0100
          Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2022-03-03 12:59 -0800
            Re: Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2022-03-04 11:35 +0100

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#7477

FromBart <bc@freeuk.com>
Date2022-03-02 19:19 +0000
Message-ID<svofvi$kbb$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7471
On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>
>> * Whole-program compilers
>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>   Who says
> C is stuck is 32 bits?

It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a given 
platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.

So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
to explicity state that everywhere, because:

   12345          is int32
   'A'            is int32
   short a,b,c;
      a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
   %d             means int32 format
   sprintf        returns int32
   f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
   int64_t a,b;
   a && b         is int32
   !a             is int32
   enum E {a=5000000000};
   enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)

etc

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#7481

FromLynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-02 19:32 -0600
Message-ID<svp5qm$ls3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7477
On 3/2/2022 1:19 PM, Bart wrote:
> On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>
>>> * Whole-program compilers
>>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>>   Who says
>> C is stuck is 32 bits?
> 
> It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
> generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a given 
> platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.
> 
> So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
> to explicity state that everywhere, because:
> 
>    12345          is int32
>    'A'            is int32
>    short a,b,c;
>       a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
>    %d             means int32 format
>    sprintf        returns int32
>    f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
>    int64_t a,b;
>    a && b         is int32
>    !a             is int32
>    enum E {a=5000000000};
>    enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)
> 
> etc

Well, that is a bummer.  That means that I will have to explicitly type 
everything int64 when we move to Win64.

I already knew that I was going to have to change all the integer types 
in my Fortran code integer*8 but I expected 64 bit C to treat int at 64 bit.

Lynn

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#7482

From"Gary R. Schmidt" <grschmidt@acm.org>
Date2022-03-03 14:56 +1100
Message-ID<fsq5fi-0hh.ln1@paranoia.mcleod-schmidt.id.au>
In reply to#7481
On 03/03/2022 12:32, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 3/2/2022 1:19 PM, Bart wrote:
>> On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>> * Whole-program compilers
>>>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>>>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>>>   Who says
>>> C is stuck is 32 bits?
>>
>> It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
>> generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a 
>> given platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.
>>
>> So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
>> to explicity state that everywhere, because:
>>
>>    12345          is int32
>>    'A'            is int32
>>    short a,b,c;
>>       a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
>>    %d             means int32 format
>>    sprintf        returns int32
>>    f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
>>    int64_t a,b;
>>    a && b         is int32
>>    !a             is int32
>>    enum E {a=5000000000};
>>    enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)
>>
>> etc
> 
> Well, that is a bummer.  That means that I will have to explicitly type 
> everything int64 when we move to Win64.
> 
> I already knew that I was going to have to change all the integer types 
> in my Fortran code integer*8 but I expected 64 bit C to treat int at 64 
> bit.

On 64-bit Linux, the default gcc instance builds 64-bit binaries, using 
the I32LP64 model.

The Alpha was nice, it's default was ILP64.

Winderrs is worse, it use IL32P64, I'll leave dealing with the 
assumptions C programmers have made over the decades to your imagination.

I've been using my own set of typedefs to control things since the early 
1990's, and being hard on myself and occasional minions about not using 
"int" anywhere.  Edit one header file and everything is as big/small as 
you need/want.  :-)

	Cheers,
		Gary	B-)

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#7483

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-03 14:02 +0100
Message-ID<svqe8o$5nl$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7481
Am 03.03.2022 um 02:32 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
> On 3/2/2022 1:19 PM, Bart wrote:
>> On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>> * Whole-program compilers
>>>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>>>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>>>   Who says
>>> C is stuck is 32 bits?
>>
>> It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
>> generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a 
>> given platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.
>>
>> So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
>> to explicity state that everywhere, because:
>>
>>    12345          is int32
>>    'A'            is int32
>>    short a,b,c;
>>       a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
>>    %d             means int32 format
>>    sprintf        returns int32
>>    f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
>>    int64_t a,b;
>>    a && b         is int32
>>    !a             is int32
>>    enum E {a=5000000000};
>>    enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)
>>
>> etc
> 
> Well, that is a bummer.  That means that I will have to explicitly type 
> everything int64 when we move to Win64.

If you need a scalar type that always matches the with of
the general purpose integer-registers use size_t or ptrdiff_t.

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#7484

FromManfred <noname@add.invalid>
Date2022-03-03 15:09 +0100
Message-ID<svqi6n$1ccc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#7477
On 3/2/2022 8:19 PM, Bart wrote:
> On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>
>>> * Whole-program compilers
>>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>>   Who says
>> C is stuck is 32 bits?
> 
> It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
> generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a given 
> platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.
> 
> So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
> to explicity state that everywhere, because:
> 
>    12345          is int32
>    'A'            is int32
>    short a,b,c;
>       a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
>    %d             means int32 format
>    sprintf        returns int32
>    f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
>    int64_t a,b;
>    a && b         is int32
>    !a             is int32
>    enum E {a=5000000000};
>    enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)
> 
> etc

Are you seriously suggesting that the default size of int should be 64 
bits everywhere?
Even for a general purpose counter from 1 to 10?

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#7485

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-03 15:14 +0100
Message-ID<svqifq$97v$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7484
Am 03.03.2022 um 15:09 schrieb Manfred:
> On 3/2/2022 8:19 PM, Bart wrote:
>> On 02/03/2022 18:06, rthiebaud wrote:
>>>>>>>> standard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>> * Whole-program compilers
>>>> * 64-bit everything (C is still stuck on 32-bits)
>>>> * Super-fast compilers ...
>>>   Who says
>>> C is stuck is 32 bits?
>>
>> It just is. While versions with 64-bit ints might be knocking about, 
>> generally they have to be compatible with what C already does on a 
>> given platform. And that usually means int = 32 bits.
>>
>> So, while people can choose to use long long int or int64_t, they have 
>> to explicity state that everywhere, because:
>>
>>    12345          is int32
>>    'A'            is int32
>>    short a,b,c;
>>       a*b*c       is int32 (so could overflow)
>>    %d             means int32 format
>>    sprintf        returns int32
>>    f(){}          defaults to int32 return type
>>    int64_t a,b;
>>    a && b         is int32
>>    !a             is int32
>>    enum E {a=5000000000};
>>    enum E xx;     is int32 (int64 on some compilers with extensions)
>>
>> etc
> 
> Are you seriously suggesting that the default size of int should be 64 
> bits everywhere?
> Even for a general purpose counter from 1 to 10?

Even if an int is only 32 bit that's too much. ^^

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#7472

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-02 19:17 +0100
Message-ID<svocba$is5$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7466
Am 02.03.2022 um 14:47 schrieb Bart:
> On 02/03/2022 04:46, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>
>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. 
>>>>> Now, Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 
>>>>> standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>
>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>
>>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>>
>> OOP, RAII, generic programming, functional programming,
>> proper error-handling like with exceptions.
> 
> They all sound like things designed to make coding harder and less 
> accessible.

No, it's the opposite. They make code much more readable
and you're a magnitude more productive.

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#7467

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2022-03-02 14:42 +0000
Message-ID<bnLTJ.29022$aT3.9637@fx09.iad>
In reply to#7465
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>
>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now, 
>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>
>>>> Read more here:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>
>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>> 
>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>
>OOP,

Simula, 1967.


>RAII,

ADA, 1980.

> generic programming, 

ML, 1973.

>functional programming,

Lisp, 1970's.

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#7473

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-02 19:18 +0100
Message-ID<svocct$is5$3@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7467
Am 02.03.2022 um 15:42 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>> Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>
>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now,
>>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>
>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>
>>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>>
>> OOP,
> 
> Simula, 1967.
> 
> 
>> RAII,
> 
> ADA, 1980.
> 
>> generic programming,
> 
> ML, 1973.
> 
>> functional programming,
> 
> Lisp, 1970's.

We're talking about C++ vs. C.

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#7474

Fromscott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
Date2022-03-02 18:33 +0000
Message-ID<kMOTJ.47117$m1S7.30500@fx36.iad>
In reply to#7473
Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>Am 02.03.2022 um 15:42 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>>>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now,
>>>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>>
>>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>>
>>>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>>>
>>> OOP,
>> 
>> Simula, 1967.
>> 
>> 
>>> RAII,
>> 
>> ADA, 1980.
>> 
>>> generic programming,
>> 
>> ML, 1973.
>> 
>>> functional programming,
>> 
>> Lisp, 1970's.

> We're talking about C++ vs. C.

Lesen sie besser.

"What is your definition of a modern language"

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#7475

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-02 19:39 +0100
Message-ID<svodkd$t2l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7474
Am 02.03.2022 um 19:33 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>> Am 02.03.2022 um 15:42 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
>>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>>>>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now,
>>>>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>>>>
>>>> OOP,
>>>
>>> Simula, 1967.
>>>
>>>
>>>> RAII,
>>>
>>> ADA, 1980.
>>>
>>>> generic programming,
>>>
>>> ML, 1973.
>>>
>>>> functional programming,
>>>
>>> Lisp, 1970's.
> 
>> We're talking about C++ vs. C.
> 
> Lesen sie besser.
> 
> "What is your definition of a modern language"



 >> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.

 > What is your definition of a modern language ?

That's C++ vs. C.
And it doesn't matter who came first. C++ is the only language
which combines nearly all of that features with the least possible
overhead (except thrown exceptions, but that's not significant for
the code).

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#7476

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-02 11:05 -0800
Message-ID<svof6k$cfi$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7475
On 3/2/2022 10:39 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 02.03.2022 um 19:33 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>>> Am 02.03.2022 um 15:42 schrieb Scott Lurndal:
>>>> Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> Am 02.03.2022 um 05:45 schrieb Lynn McGuire:
>>>>>> On 2/28/2022 11:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. 
>>>>>>>> Now,
>>>>>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What is your definition of a modern language ?
>>>>>
>>>>> OOP,
>>>>
>>>> Simula, 1967.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> RAII,
>>>>
>>>> ADA, 1980.
>>>>
>>>>> generic programming,
>>>>
>>>> ML, 1973.
>>>>
>>>>> functional programming,
>>>>
>>>> Lisp, 1970's.
>>
>>> We're talking about C++ vs. C.
>>
>> Lesen sie besser.
>>
>> "What is your definition of a modern language"
> 
> 
> 
>  >> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
> 
>  > What is your definition of a modern language ?
> 
> That's C++ vs. C.

Agreed. C++ is more "modern" than C for sure.

> And it doesn't matter who came first. C++ is the only language
> which combines nearly all of that features with the least possible
> overhead (except thrown exceptions, but that's not significant for
> the code).

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#7488

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-03 12:25 -0800
Message-ID<svr87u$76l$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7431
On 2/28/2022 9:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>> Hello,
>>
>>
>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>
>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now, 
>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>
>> Read more here:
>>
>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
> 
> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.

Moving Linux to Standard C11 has to involve a lot of porting over to the 
std atomics and membars in C11.

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#7490

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-03 21:37 +0100
Message-ID<svr8u1$d5m$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7488
Am 03.03.2022 um 21:25 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> On 2/28/2022 9:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>>
>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>
>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now, 
>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>
>>> Read more here:
>>>
>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>
>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
> 
> Moving Linux to Standard C11 has to involve a lot of porting over to the 
> std atomics and membars in C11.

The code needs not to be portable beyond gcc and clang.

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#7491

From"Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-03 12:59 -0800
Message-ID<svra78$no8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7490
On 3/3/2022 12:37 PM, Bonita Montero wrote:
> Am 03.03.2022 um 21:25 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
>> On 2/28/2022 9:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>
>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. Now, 
>>>> Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 standard.
>>>>
>>>> Read more here:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>
>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>
>> Moving Linux to Standard C11 has to involve a lot of porting over to 
>> the std atomics and membars in C11.
> 
> The code needs not to be portable beyond gcc and clang.

Well, I was thinking if they altered their existing atomics and membars 
to 100% pure C11, that would be a shit load of work. I can do it, but it 
would take a very long time.

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#7500

FromBonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com>
Date2022-03-04 11:35 +0100
Message-ID<svsq1b$523$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#7491
Am 03.03.2022 um 21:59 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
> On 3/3/2022 12:37 PM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>> Am 03.03.2022 um 21:25 schrieb Chris M. Thomasson:
>>> On 2/28/2022 9:44 AM, Bonita Montero wrote:
>>>> Am 28.02.2022 um 17:43 schrieb Amine Moulay Ramdane:
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Linus Torvalds prepares to move the Linux kernel to modern C
>>>>>
>>>>> The Linux kernel's foundation is the ancient C89 standard of C. 
>>>>> Now, Torvalds has decided to upgrade to 2011's more modern C11 
>>>>> standard.
>>>>>
>>>>> Read more here:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-prepares-to-move-the-linux-kernel-to-modern-c/?ftag=COS-05-10aaa0h&utm_campaign=trueAnthem%3A%20Trending%20Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR1oF1ysACG28YRYJnnYlt7oCzfRhXSUePOKd4xsycb3F8GGwxIfeAXZI8Y 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> Amine Moulay Ramdane.
>>>>
>>>> C isn't a modern language, no matter which standard.
>>>
>>> Moving Linux to Standard C11 has to involve a lot of porting over to 
>>> the std atomics and membars in C11.
>>
>> The code needs not to be portable beyond gcc and clang.
> 
> Well, I was thinking if they altered their existing atomics and membars 
> to 100% pure C11, that would be a shit load of work. I can do it, but it 
> would take a very long time.

The code needs not to be portable beyond gcc and clang.

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