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Paper bubbles

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  Paper bubbles DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> - 2011-10-30 13:24 -0700
    Re: Paper bubbles "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> - 2011-10-30 16:37 -0400
      Re: Paper bubbles DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> - 2011-10-30 14:01 -0700
        Re: Paper bubbles "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> - 2011-10-30 17:55 -0400
          Re: Paper bubbles DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> - 2011-11-06 16:34 -0800
            Re: Paper bubbles "David H. Lipman" <DLipman~nospam~@Verizon.Net> - 2011-11-06 20:01 -0500
        Re: Paper bubbles davy <davy.52ttb6@no.email.invalid> - 2011-11-06 19:19 -0600
          Re: Paper bubbles DaveC <invalid@invalid.net> - 2011-11-14 00:50 -0800
            Re: Paper bubbles davy <davy.537lsw@no.email.invalid> - 2011-11-14 09:14 -0600

#653 — Paper bubbles

Using glossy paper stock (not photo paper) usually found in magazines. 

Ran a few sheets through the Brother laser printer and they come out with 
bubbles. The paper is actually bulged on both sides wherever bubbles appear. 

Other paper (bond, copy paper, etc.) has no issues

The paper doesn't seem really damp, so I doubt it's moisture content 
(although I'm open to being proven otherwise).

Ideas?

Thanks.

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#654

From: "DaveC" <invalid@invalid.net>

> Using glossy paper stock (not photo paper) usually found in magazines.
>
> Ran a few sheets through the Brother laser printer and they come out with
> bubbles. The paper is actually bulged on both sides wherever bubbles appear.
>
> Other paper (bond, copy paper, etc.) has no issues
>
> The paper doesn't seem really damp, so I doubt it's moisture content
> (although I'm open to being proven otherwise).
>
> Ideas?
>

The paper is not the kind meant for the heat generated by the fuser element of a laser 
printer.



-- 
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp 

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#655

> The paper is not the kind meant for the heat generated by the fuser element 
> of a laser printer.

I'm making printed circuit boards (step 1: print circuit image on thin glossy 
magazine paper) following instructions published all over the 'net. Most of 
them suggest this type of paper and I've read no other reports of such 
problems. 

Dave

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#656

From: "DaveC" <invalid@invalid.net>

>> The paper is not the kind meant for the heat generated by the fuser element
>> of a laser printer.
>
> I'm making printed circuit boards (step 1: print circuit image on thin glossy
> magazine paper) following instructions published all over the 'net. Most of
> them suggest this type of paper and I've read no other reports of such
> problems.
>
> Dave

Please post the make, brand and type of this commercial product.


-- 
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp 

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#734

I figured it out. 

I was printing using thin, hard-coated glossy stock but using printer 
settings for regular laser printer paper. My printer apparently adjusts the 
fuser temperature based on paper weight. 

I chose "thin paper" and the bubbles went away.

Cheers,
Dave

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#735

From: "DaveC" <invalid@invalid.net>

> I figured it out.
>
> I was printing using thin, hard-coated glossy stock but using printer
> settings for regular laser printer paper. My printer apparently adjusts the
> fuser temperature based on paper weight.
>
> I chose "thin paper" and the bubbles went away.
>

Thanx for updating the thread.



-- 
Dave
Multi-AV Scanning Tool - http://multi-av.thespykiller.co.uk
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp 

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#755

DaveC;1315293 Wrote: 
> > The paper is not the kind meant for the heat generated by the fuser
> element 
> > of a laser printer.
> 
> I'm making printed circuit boards (step 1: print circuit image on thin
> glossy 
> magazine paper) following instructions published all over the 'net. Most
> of 
> them suggest this type of paper and I've read no other reports of such 
> problems. 
> 
> Dave

Yep, I've used magazine paper too, Sunday paper magazine supplement type
paper, that comes out nice n' flat, no bubbling.

Could I suggest something? Slip the wife some shopping money then get
the clothes iron..... and try the paper you are having problems with,
*but do* use a piece of greaseproof paper or kitchen towel between the
paper and iron... just to prevent any marks on the iron - you'll need a
pretty high setting, just hold it on for a few seconds til the paper
gets quite warm. See what happens.

There is one problem however!
Brother laser printers don't use toner as we know, it's plastic
particles and the fusing temperature is much higher than normal toner
powder. There's plenty reading on this subject on the internet and them
not being suitable for PCB.

I'm going off what I have read, I always use Samsung and they proved OK
even the El' cheapo models.....  one thing to remember is with PCBs you
are laying a larger area of toner down compared to normal printing, this
'might' play a part as well.

You might say where the paper is bubbling, might be a clue here, is it
on the toner and the the blank areas?

davy

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#782

> Yep, I've used magazine paper too, Sunday paper magazine supplement type
> paper, that comes out nice n' flat, no bubbling.
> 
> Could I suggest something? Slip the wife some shopping money then get
> the clothes iron..... and try the paper you are having problems with,
> *but do* use a piece of greaseproof paper or kitchen towel between the
> paper and iron... just to prevent any marks on the iron - you'll need a
> pretty high setting, just hold it on for a few seconds til the paper
> gets quite warm. See what happens.
> 
> There is one problem however!
> Brother laser printers don't use toner as we know, it's plastic
> particles and the fusing temperature is much higher than normal toner
> powder. There's plenty reading on this subject on the internet and them
> not being suitable for PCB.
> 
> I'm going off what I have read, I always use Samsung and they proved OK
> even the El' cheapo models.....  one thing to remember is with PCBs you
> are laying a larger area of toner down compared to normal printing, this
> 'might' play a part as well.
> 
> You might say where the paper is bubbling, might be a clue here, is it
> on the toner and the the blank areas?
> 
> davy

Thanks for your comments. 

I don't need help with the bubbling since it no longer does it if I choose 
the proper paper weight in the driver settings. 

To transfer the toner to the board I'm using a modified (er... hacked) 
8.5-inch wide laminator that heats to 330F. I'm getting transfer from glossy 
paper to the copper board, but not perfect. It looks good but after etching 
it is obvious that there were tiny holes in the toner that let etchant 
through to the copper. If I did a tinning of the traces it would probably 
make a passable circuit. 

But I want to find out what is the cause and fix the problem.

Dave

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#783

Tiny holes yes that's a common problem you could go over with a
Lumocolour marker (Steadler 317), I find the blue, green or red are the
better ones or a pcb pen.

Using the Pulsar paper system they supply a backing sheet you iron over
the toner this seals the toner.... but you are using paper as the
carrier, may work just as well on this system.

Press and peel does all this in one go, I think the only other option is
to put as much toner down as possible by using the highest setting,
still as you know the board needs to be cleaned and degreased, for this
I give it a squirt of Isopranol, surprising the muck that comes off.

davy

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