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Groups > comp.os.vms > #58251 > unrolled thread
| Started by | helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 338 — 25 participants |
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FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:17 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:01 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:23 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:36 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-14 09:02 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:22 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 11:45 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-12 16:08 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT brendan welch <w1lpg@uml.edu> - 2016-06-12 17:20 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 09:20 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 18:42 -0700
Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-16 18:24 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 15:15 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 16:01 -0700
Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-16 19:56 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 17:23 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-16 21:16 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 20:11 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 10:26 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-17 15:28 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 00:39 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-06-17 22:41 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 23:14 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 20:10 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 10:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 02:19 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 13:51 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:31 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:24 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 20:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-19 01:46 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:56 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:32 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:42 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:00 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:12 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:45 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:29 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:48 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 21:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:26 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:55 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:38 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 14:53 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 16:18 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-21 18:27 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:34 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 17:07 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:36 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:47 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 16:06 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:33 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:46 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:16 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:33 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:23 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:42 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:58 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:40 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:03 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:55 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:36 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:43 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:20 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:33 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-28 09:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:48 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:59 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:06 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 17:05 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:50 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:24 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:34 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 22:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-24 08:52 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 16:54 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-24 13:41 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 18:27 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:33 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:14 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:50 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:02 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:35 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:26 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:15 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 09:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:15 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:23 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:42 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:56 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:41 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:09 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:41 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:43 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 22:18 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:53 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:17 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:16 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:31 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:22 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:27 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:55 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 22:15 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-24 10:50 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-24 11:19 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:12 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:17 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:34 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 13:40 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 20:21 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:28 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:38 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 21:29 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 23:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 22:39 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:32 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 12:15 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 14:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 13:45 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 15:58 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 14:07 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 16:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-07-11 09:34 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 11:31 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:48 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-11 15:49 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-12 13:03 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:47 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 11:01 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 12:48 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 15:12 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 15:15 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 17:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 18:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:00 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 21:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 19:38 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-01 12:58 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 17:42 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:03 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-30 15:17 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 20:02 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 10:51 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-27 21:09 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 23:39 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:44 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:47 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 19:47 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 07:38 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 22:46 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 11:41 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 03:13 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:13 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 16:55 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 10:18 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 17:38 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 17:01 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 08:34 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-20 07:40 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 00:27 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 09:43 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:36 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:27 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:49 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:03 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 15:51 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 02:41 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 11:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 03:04 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 12:57 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 00:15 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 14:51 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 15:37 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:14 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 17:38 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:04 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:09 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-04 12:30 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 09:45 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 20:07 +0200
RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-18 18:41 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:48 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 19:56 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 23:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 09:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:20 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 14:18 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 15:03 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:49 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:46 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:26 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:07 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 06:47 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:54 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 17:37 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:47 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 21:28 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 13:27 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:19 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-20 14:39 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 11:14 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:30 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 20:39 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 22:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 22:15 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 00:57 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 19:42 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 23:06 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:27 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 14:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-21 09:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:16 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:44 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 15:02 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:10 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-22 09:53 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:25 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:18 -0400
System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:49 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 12:26 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:44 +0200
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-23 12:43 -0500
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:40 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:29 -0700
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:03 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-27 09:09 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:54 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 18:59 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 17:04 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-24 14:54 -0500
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:41 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:45 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 17:03 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 19:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "-------------------------Michael W. Farrell" <mfarrell001@verizon.net> - 2016-06-23 01:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:16 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-22 22:04 -0500
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:52 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:02 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:16 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:58 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 13:05 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:27 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-22 12:46 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:42 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 10:15 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 14:11 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:50 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 17:57 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 08:35 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 15:18 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 09:46 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 16:10 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:56 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-25 14:47 -0400
MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-25 19:44 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:16 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-26 10:26 +0200
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:23 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:30 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:20 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-26 12:43 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:34 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:10 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-27 00:46 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-28 03:16 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:41 -0700
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-27 15:44 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:09 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:23 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:07 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:30 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:30 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 08:59 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:40 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:05 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 15:00 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 01:40 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 00:18 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 10:10 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 01:50 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 11:03 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:57 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:00 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:54 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-24 21:24 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 12:43 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-25 12:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 21:37 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:07 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:47 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-19 14:40 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 20:14 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-20 19:19 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 21:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 13:59 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 19:12 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:03 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-18 12:52 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:05 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-07-04 19:11 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 02:57 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 07:24 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 02:28 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 16:56 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 13:22 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 20:53 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 15:22 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200
Page 9 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 7 8 [9] 10 11 … 17 Next page →
| From | Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-29 10:54 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <nl02bc$gsb$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE> |
| In reply to | #59038 |
On 2016-06-28 06:09, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk wrote: > On Monday, 27 June 2016 18:41:58 UTC+1, Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <00B0B3EA.9F7943FA@SendSpamHere.ORG>, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG writes: >>> >>> OK... So we should all toss fixed, VFC, VAR, STM and STMCF formats and use >>> STMLF exclusively. >>> >>> Again, the filesize (in bytes) CAN be had but they'll not mean what you want >>> them to mean to your protocol transfer. Again, I don't see that as any VMS >>> problem; I see it as a protocol limitation imposed by all of the *ixers out >>> there that have, parochially, defined these protocols RFCs. >> >> Hm. Windows stores text lines with CRLF separators, so that's 2 >> bytes meta-data per line of text. VAR stores text with leaing >> lengths in 16 bit words, so that's 2 bytes meta-data per line of >> text. >> >> Would seem to me that VAR isn't even a problem. When you do the >> conversion to the protocol's CRLF separators, you get the same total >> bytes. > > Are you sure "Windows stores text lines with CRLF separators"? > > Or do you mean "(some) Windows applications can correctly process text lines with CRLF separators"? > > Windows has no built in record management layer. To some that's a good thing. Fair point. Yes, Windows itself do not do this implicitly anywhere. It's all in the libraries. That said, there is a defined standard for Windows on how text files should be represented. If you choose to not follow that, that's your applications problem. Hmm, thinking about it, I wonder if not some old legacy DOS calls to the BIOS will actually do the CR+LF processing implicitly, so there are places where it takes place outside your code as well. > It also means that the behaviour of two allegedly similar Windows apps (e.g. two text editors) when fed the exact same file may be different depending on what's in the data on the disk. That is equally true of any application, on any operating system. And I fail to see the relevance. It's just like how many applications react on Unix systems when they get fed files that have CR+LF line endings. Some do things one way, others different. Or under VMS, where some programs freak out when you have explicitly CR+LF in a sequential file, and the record attributes also have implicit CR+LF. Some programs will put in an extra empty line. Some programs will totally freak out because the explicit control characters on the line... Johnny
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-18 18:44 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <c4a893a6-bcf5-4cf8-b978-7d29ab216416@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58542 |
On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 11:51:46 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: > On 2016-06-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 8:56:38 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: > > > >> Rather useful when determining how much space is required for a > >> Time Machine Backup, I imagine. > > > > Time Machine plays fast and loose with your filesystem integrity > > (multiple hard links to directories), and you pay the price in > > reliability > > > > <http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1252811>. > > Yes, I also went through problems with TM, but they appear to be fixed. > > TM can be terribly slow in certain circumstances. I take regular > clone copies using other software. The funny thing is, rsync can perform mirror backups with deduping of unchanged files, without messing around with filesystem integrity; why couldn’t Apple have done the same? > >> cf VMS only storing the block sizes of files rather than the number of > >> bytes; this can be problematic for utilities ported from a system which > >> has an easy/cheap way to supply the exact size in bytes. > > > > This was the example Linus Torvalds gave of why he hated VMS... > > Eh? There are many reasons to dislike an OS but 'hating VMS' for that > *perceived* problem? Really? A real problem. And yes, I saw his point. > From another perspective, I ran straight into the spat between Torvalds > and Ted Ts'o when ext4 became the default on Ubuntu - this one did > produce data loss for me (until I worked out what was going on): > > "Linus Torvalds Upset over Ext3 and Ext4" > > <http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/News/Linus-Torvalds-Upset-over-Ext3-and-Ext4> That seemed to be a matter of default settings. You could change the options at mount time to prioritize what you wanted.
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-19 10:47 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <nk6bad$88b$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58562 |
On 2016-06-19 01:44:35 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > The funny thing is, rsync can perform mirror backups with deduping of > unchanged files, without messing around with filesystem integrity; why > couldn’t Apple have done the same? rsync is somewhat analogous to Time Machine in that both copy files around. But the two differ. rsync is a remote synchronization tool. Time Machine is a backup tool, and maintains months or years of previous versions of files over one or more local or remote backup target volumes, as well as providing the ability to restore and boot the recovered volume(s), among other differences from rsync. TM avoids storing duplicate copies of a file, though does not provide the file or sector-level de-dupling available with some storage systems. Having used both, TM and rsync are different targets and different users and different implementations. As for the integrity, Time Machine solves the problem that the vast majority of its users has. That the vast majority of OpenVMS users have, but have to write their own DCL procedures for. Features of APFS provide capabilities that would appear to benefit Time Machine, so it'll be interesting to see how that's integrated. TM is one of the last consumers of AFP on macOS systems, and it's very likely it'll migrate to SMB in some upcoming release. OpenVMS BACKUP, by contrast, works very well but has limited remote access — other than via an existing cluster and its storage access or via DECnet FAL, or via some unsupported DECnet hackery*, and none those lend themselves to easy restoration and recovery. BACKUP does have compression and Time Machine does not, but BACKUP lacks de-duping, and the incremental support within BACKUP is rather more complex to implement than it should be. *unsupported DECnet hackery: http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/598 -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-19 19:47 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <37e43928-fd79-4e9b-b3db-30b6af45b5ff@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58605 |
On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:47:43 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > rsync is somewhat analogous to Time Machine in that both copy files > around. But the two differ. rsync is a remote synchronization tool. > Time Machine is a backup tool, and maintains months or years of > previous versions of files over one or more local or remote backup > target volumes, as well as providing the ability to restore and boot > the recovered volume(s), among other differences from rsync. TM avoids > storing duplicate copies of a file, though does not provide the file or > sector-level de-dupling available with some storage systems. Having > used both, TM and rsync are different targets and different users and > different implementations. rsync does all that and more.
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 07:38 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <j4ck3d-krh.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #58636 |
On 2016-06-20, lawrencedo99@gmail.com <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:47:43 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > >> rsync is somewhat analogous to Time Machine in that both copy files >> around. But the two differ. rsync is a remote synchronization tool. >> Time Machine is a backup tool, and maintains months or years of >> previous versions of files over one or more local or remote backup >> target volumes, as well as providing the ability to restore and boot >> the recovered volume(s), among other differences from rsync. TM avoids >> storing duplicate copies of a file, though does not provide the file or >> sector-level de-dupling available with some storage systems. Having >> used both, TM and rsync are different targets and different users and >> different implementations. > > rsync does all that and more. Time Machine uses a File System Event store to track changed directories. See the details here: http://pondini.org/OSX/Home.html> and <http://pondini.org/TM/Works.html> -- There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation, naming, and off-by-one errors.
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-19 22:46 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <8c81b3f0-3cd3-4b55-a2b9-99e403d7d5fc@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58646 |
On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 5:39:08 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: > On 2016-06-20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:47:43 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> >>> rsync is somewhat analogous to Time Machine in that both copy files >>> around. But the two differ. rsync is a remote synchronization tool. >>> Time Machine is a backup tool, and maintains months or years of >>> previous versions of files over one or more local or remote backup >>> target volumes, as well as providing the ability to restore and boot >>> the recovered volume(s), among other differences from rsync. TM avoids >>> storing duplicate copies of a file, though does not provide the file or >>> sector-level de-dupling available with some storage systems. Having >>> used both, TM and rsync are different targets and different users and >>> different implementations. >> >> rsync does all that and more. > > Time Machine uses a File System Event store to track changed directories. rsync doesn’t need one.
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 11:41 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <3bqk3d-gci.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #58648 |
On 2016-06-20, lawrencedo99@gmail.com <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 5:39:08 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: >> On 2016-06-20, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:47:43 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >>> >>>> rsync is somewhat analogous to Time Machine in that both copy files >>>> around. But the two differ. rsync is a remote synchronization tool. >>>> Time Machine is a backup tool, and maintains months or years of >>>> previous versions of files over one or more local or remote backup >>>> target volumes, as well as providing the ability to restore and boot >>>> the recovered volume(s), among other differences from rsync. TM avoids >>>> storing duplicate copies of a file, though does not provide the file or >>>> sector-level de-dupling available with some storage systems. Having >>>> used both, TM and rsync are different targets and different users and >>>> different implementations. >>> >>> rsync does all that and more. >> >> Time Machine uses a File System Event store to track changed directories. > > rsync doesn’t need one. Please explain. -- There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation, naming, and off-by-one errors.
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 03:13 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <3d597b88-e925-4182-ae7e-6e1a2266e34e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58651 |
On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 9:41:36 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:
> Please explain.
rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src» and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to be done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of «src»?”
Adding/removing files and subdirectories would seem to be fairly straightforward. The clever part of rsync is that it can also compare two versions of a file residing on different nodes on the network, *without having to copy the entire file across*, to figure out which parts have changed and which parts haven’t. That was the key part of Andrew Tridgell’s PhD thesis on rsync. It was an algorithm he could have patented, but he chose not to.
rsync is a wonderful general file-copying tool. You can use it to do huge copies, that might take hours or days. If a link goes down and the operation aborts, you can simply re-execute the same rsync command after things come back up, and it will resume from where it left off.
It can also create incremental backups that can be browsed and retrieved from as though they were full backups. The procedure goes something like this:
Initial backup:
rsync --archive «src» «backup1»
Next backup:
rsync --archive --link-dest=«backup1» «src» «backup2»
Basically, any file that hasn’t changed in «src» since the creation of «backup1» is hard-linked from that previous backup into its place in «backup2», instead of being copied again. The net result is that «backup2» behaves like a full backup, without the extra storage space (or network traffic) consumption.
And the nice thing is, there is nothing special about the backup format: it is just a regular filesystem volume obeying standard POSIX semantics--no funny tricks like Apple pulls with Time Machine. No special metadata required, no special file-retrieval software required--just the same standard file-manipulation commands you already use every day.
Because restoring from a backup will likely happen in a high-stress situation: the user or the company has lost some important files, and you have to get them back NOW. Screw up, and say goodbye to your customer, or your job, maybe even face legal consequences. The fewer extra mechanisms that are required to access the backups, the less chance there is for something to go wrong.
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 09:13 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <nk8q6b$nkt$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58653 |
On 2016-06-20 10:13:41 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src» > and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to be > done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of «src»?” Which is only part of what Time Machine does. You're obligated to maintain multiple rsync targets, if you want any depth to your backups. Time Machine functions more like a VCS here, in that a single target contains anything from a single version of the source to months or years of source file changes, with file, directory or everything restorable by time. Time Machine also avoids storing multiple copies of unmodified files, where using multiple rsync targets would require the storage system to do that de-dup. Take rsync and combine it with a VCS — and with a much simpler and backup-targeted user interface — and you'll get closer to Time Machine. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 16:55 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <248c023e-3498-4959-941d-9561e589e432@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58662 |
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:13:49 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > On 2016-06-20 10:13:41 +0000, Lawrence D’Oliveiro said: > >> rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src» >> and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to be >> done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of «src»?” > > Which is only part of what Time Machine does. You're obligated to > maintain multiple rsync targets, if you want any depth to your backups. I have a script to do that. Backup run twice a day for one client, going back a week. (This is separate from the backup service provided by the central IT department.) > Time Machine functions more like a VCS here, in that a single target > contains anything from a single version of the source to months or > years of source file changes, with file, directory or everything > restorable by time. That’s what those “multiple rsync targets” provide. Each is just a separate directory. > Time Machine also avoids storing multiple copies > of unmodified files, where using multiple rsync targets would require > the storage system to do that de-dup. rsync avoid storing multiple copies of unmodified files, like I said.
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 10:18 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <nkbib7$i30$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58691 |
On 2016-06-20 23:55:47 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:13:49 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> On 2016-06-20 10:13:41 +0000, Lawrence D’Oliveiro said: >> >>> rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src»>> >>> and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to >>> be>> done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of >>> «src»?” >> >> Which is only part of what Time Machine does. You're obligated to> >> maintain multiple rsync targets, if you want any depth to your backups. > > I have a script to do that. Backup run twice a day for one client, > going back a week. (This is separate from the backup service provided > by the central IT department.) Good on you. Got time-based restoration of files and directories, and bootable whole-disk restoration, and fully automated hourly backup processing with increasing pruning over time and pruning for target capacity? Got the ability to store just the deltas across those different output directory targets akin to a CVS (akin to stacking up incrementals using OpenVMS BACKUP, or what most CVS packages implement internally)? Great! You've managed to get rsync much closer than what most folks using it have done. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <014ca0a8-42f4-4de6-9750-76a02da278b5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58711 |
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 2:18:18 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > On 2016-06-20 23:55:47 +0000, Lawrence D’Oliveiro said: > >> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 1:13:49 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> >>> On 2016-06-20 10:13:41 +0000, Lawrence D’Oliveiro said: >>> >>>> rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src»>> >>>> and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to >>>> be>> done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of >>>> «src»?” >>> >>> Which is only part of what Time Machine does. You're obligated to> >>> maintain multiple rsync targets, if you want any depth to your backups. >> >> I have a script to do that. Backup run twice a day for one client, >> going back a week. (This is separate from the backup service provided >> by the central IT department.) > > Good on you. Got time-based restoration of files and directories ... I know you’re grasping at straws, but I’ll play along... Each backup directory is named by its timestamp, so yes. > ... and bootable whole-disk restoration ... That particular backup is only of user files. But yes, Linux install images normally include “rescue” functions, though the Debian one leaves off rsync. But there’s always SystemRescueCD... > ... and fully automated hourly backup processing with increasing pruning over > time ... This one runs twice a day and goes back a week, but it could run hourly and go back further if you want. > ... and pruning for target capacity? Haven’t needed to bother with that. Just checked the backup volume, and its usage is actually slightly smaller than the one containing the original user files. As the disks gets close to full, I point that out to the client, and they put in a new set. If it’s not time to upgrade the machine anyway... > Got the ability to store just the deltas across those > different output directory targets akin to a CVS ... It does automatic file deduping, like I said. > (akin to stacking up incrementals using OpenVMS BACKUP ... It does not lock the data away in proprietary backup formats, thank goodness. > ... or what most CVS packages implement internally)? You do realize CVS is a crap VCS, don’t you? Remember the description of SVN as being “CVS being done right”? To which Linus Torvalds’ response was “anyone who says SVN is CVS done right is a moron”. > Great! You've managed to get rsync much closer than what > most folks using it have done. It’s called “reading and understanding the documentation”. A lot of my job seems to be like that...
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 17:38 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <29fl3d-s6j.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #58653 |
On 2016-06-20, lawrencedo99@gmail.com <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 9:41:36 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:
>
>> Please explain.
>
> rsync basically answers the question “given a source directory «src»
> and a destination directory «dst», what is the minimum that needs to
> be done to the contents of «dst» to turn it into an exact copy of
> «src»?”
Let's back up to the bit you snipped:
Paul:
>> Time Machine uses a File System Event store to track changed directories.
Lawrence:
> rsync doesn’t need one.
You underestimate the size of the problem. When not much has changed, an hourly
Time Machine run will complete in a minute or two.
rsync cannot possibly scan all the directories on a system for changes in
such a short time, at least not on the spinning rust I have here.
Want timings?
find /Applications | wc -l # get total number of files in /Applications
995716 files, elapsed time 33 seconds
for the directories in there (I'm assuming 'find' is reasonably efficient
here):
find /Applications -type d | wc -l # get total number of directories
# in /Applications
145437 directories, elapsed time 5 minutes 37 seconds
That's just the OS X GUI applications. I've got many more files
spanning several disks. Think half a million directories in total.
not including backups. All to be scanned to detect changes, unless
you have a faster method of targeting modified directories.
The hint provided by the File System Event store cuts that down to a
manageable level. If you read the description at pondini.org, you'll
discover the precautionary measures taken in the event of a system
crash, when the Event store might be incomplete.
> Adding/removing files and subdirectories would seem to be fairly
> straightforward. The clever part of rsync is that it can also compare
> two versions of a file residing on different nodes on the network,
> *without having to copy the entire file across*, to figure out which
> parts have changed and which parts haven’t. That was the key part of
> Andrew Tridgell’s PhD thesis on rsync. It was an algorithm he could
> have patented, but he chose not to.
Ah yes. Do you realise you are sounding like a PR type acting on
Tridgell's behalf?
> rsync is a wonderful general file-copying tool. You can use it to do
> huge copies, that might take hours or days. If a link goes down and
> the operation aborts, you can simply re-execute the same rsync command
> after things come back up, and it will resume from where it left off.
Yes, I'm aware of it's good points thank you, but it is not a direct
replacement for Time Machine.
<snip>
> Because restoring from a backup will likely happen in a high-stress
> situation: the user or the company has lost some important files, and
> you have to get them back NOW. Screw up, and say goodbye to your
> customer, or your job, maybe even face legal consequences. The fewer
> extra mechanisms that are required to access the backups, the less
> chance there is for something to go wrong.
Yes, we know all that stuff thanks. :-)
--
There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation,
naming, and off-by-one errors.
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 17:01 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <13ff4601-08bc-403b-bfeb-426a52026769@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58670 |
On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 3:38:50 AM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: > Paul: >>> Time Machine uses a File System Event store to track changed directories. > > Lawrence: > >> rsync doesn’t need one. > > You underestimate the size of the problem. When not much has changed, an > hourly Time Machine run will complete in a minute or two. > > rsync cannot possibly scan all the directories on a system for changes in > such a short time, at least not on the spinning rust I have here. It normally takes a shortcut: if the source and destination files have exactly the same size and the same timestamps, then it assumes they are the same. So yes, rsync can do fast scans. There is a --checksum option if you want to disable this. Which I use as an extra check, for example if I am going to wipe the original disk to repartition it before restoring. > Want timings? Not on HFS-Plus, no. We all know the quality of Apple’s filesystems <http://www.zdnet.com/article/horrors-linus-torvalds-calls-hfs-utter-crap/> ...
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 08:34 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <nk8ns5$f71$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58636 |
On 2016-06-20 02:47:55 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > rsync does all that and more. No version of rsync I've met or read about maintains a history of and a delta of the file changes over time within the backup target, nor does any version allow file or directory or disk restorations based on the original backup time. rsync is a nice tool for folks using the command line and that want to synchronize directories. But it's not directly analogous to Time Machine. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-20 07:40 -0500 |
| Subject | Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) |
| Message-ID | <nk8o7f$gdm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58659 |
On 6/20/2016 7:34 AM, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > On 2016-06-20 02:47:55 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > >> rsync does all that and more. > > No version of rsync I've met or read about maintains a history of and a > delta of the file changes over time within the backup target, nor does > any version allow file or directory or disk restorations based on the > original backup time. rsync is a nice tool for folks using the command > line and that want to synchronize directories. But it's not directly > analogous to Time Machine. I have seen rsync cause cause more WAN overhead because of lack of understanding what it does. If you use rsync like a copy command (no remote daemon) over a network shared drive to do an update, it can actually read every byte of the remote files over the network, even if all files are up to date. The problem gets worse if one side is Windows or OpenVMS and the other Linux, because there seems to be some issues with converting a those 64 bit timestamps to the 32 bit Linux systems. I have not had the time to chase that down. Regards, -John wb8tyw@qsl.net_work
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| From | Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 17:29 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <nkbmhp$5cn$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE> |
| In reply to | #58541 |
On 2016-06-18 11:19, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote: > On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 8:56:38 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote: > >> Rather useful when determining how much space is required for a >> Time Machine Backup, I imagine. > > Time Machine plays fast and loose with your filesystem integrity (multiple hard links to directories), and you pay the price in reliability <http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1252811>. Multiple hard links are not a problem for file system integrity. Any Unix systems have plenty of hard links to directories all the time. (Hint: what do you think . and .. is?) >> cf VMS only storing the block sizes of files rather than the number of >> bytes; this can be problematic for utilities ported from a system which >> has an easy/cheap way to supply the exact size in bytes. > > This was the example Linus Torvalds gave of why he hated VMS... It is a problem for programs that actually want size of things in bytes. Annoyingly enough, Unix systems often cheat in relation to this and some net protocols as well (many network protocols want sizes in bytes, but should be using the internet standard for text, which should have CR+LF for newlines, meaning the native file size in Unix systems are incorrect in this context). Johnny
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 00:27 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <dbbd9353-3fbc-441e-85d7-772566e28dec@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58717 |
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 3:30:03 AM UTC+12, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On 2016-06-18 11:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >> Time Machine plays fast and loose with your filesystem integrity (multiple hard links to directories), and you pay the price in reliability <http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1252811>. > > Multiple hard links are not a problem for file system integrity. Yes they are. Consider either (or both) of the following questions: * How do you prevent reference cycles? * What happens if you don’t? > (Hint: what do you think . and .. is?) Those cause their own share of problems--look at all the code in directory-search APIs that have to special-case those useless entries and skip over them...
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 09:43 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <nke4lb$qqh$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58747 |
On 2016-06-22 07:27:26 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 3:30:03 AM UTC+12, Johnny Billquist wrote: >> On 2016-06-18 11:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> >>> Time Machine plays fast and loose with your filesystem integrity >>> (multiple hard links to directories), and you pay the price in >>> reliability <http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1252811>. >> >> Multiple hard links are not a problem for file system integrity. > > Yes they are. Empirically... OpenVMS supports multiple links to directories — that's at the core of the cluster file system. BACKUP has code for dealing with previously-scanned files as part of the /IMAGE qualifier. macOS Time Machine very clearly works, too. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 12:36 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) |
| Message-ID | <68fbc951-3627-4813-8add-def295e6b4c1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58766 |
On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 1:43:09 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > On 2016-06-22 07:27:26 +0000, Lawrence D’Oliveiro said: > >> On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 3:30:03 AM UTC+12, Johnny Billquist wrote: >>> On 2016-06-18 11:19, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> >>>> Time Machine plays fast and loose with your filesystem integrity >>>> (multiple hard links to directories), and you pay the price in >>>> reliability <http://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?t=1252811>. >>> >>> Multiple hard links are not a problem for file system integrity. >> >> Yes they are. > > Empirically... > > OpenVMS supports multiple links to directories — that's at the core of > the cluster file system. VMS doesn’t treat “orphan” files--those with no directory entry--as a filesystem integrity problem. The users may have a different view, however. > macOS Time Machine very clearly works, too. Most of the time... And as rsync demonstrates, it could so easily have been made to work without risking filesystem integrity.
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