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HTTP/2 stole my Applet

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  HTTP/2 stole my Applet Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-17 16:56 +0800
    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-17 10:58 +0000
      Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Richard Maher <maherrj@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 18:01 +0800
        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-20 19:28 +0000
        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Qu0ll <qu0ll64@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 17:39 +1000
          Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 03:25 -0700
            Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-22 07:22 -0500
            Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-22 21:21 +0000
              Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 14:51 -0700
            Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 20:05 -0400
        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Richard Maher <maherrj@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 13:22 +0800
          Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-22 12:39 +0000
    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Qu0ll <qu0ll64@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 03:36 +1000
    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-06-17 23:16 +0200
    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-17 17:24 -0700
      Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-18 15:21 +0000
        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 16:35 -0700
          Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:59 -0400
            Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 21:42 -0700
              Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 01:35 -0400
                Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 09:00 +0200
                  Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 00:32 -0700
                    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:37 -0400
                      Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 03:22 -0700
                        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:29 -0400
                Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 00:33 -0700
                  Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 16:06 -0400
                    Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 03:21 -0700
            Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:59 -0400
          Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:57 -0400
        Re: HTTP/2 stole my Applet Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:56 -0400
    The smoking gun Richard Maher <maher_rjSPAMLESS@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-23 20:20 +0800

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#58586

On 2016-06-19, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>> Why?
>
> I'm assuming that you're asking why a patent protects an idea?
>
> So, you come up with a better mousetrap, and you get a patent.  You
> may want to produce and sell the better mousetrap.  So you incur
> considerable expense setting up production.  If anybody could then
> copy your better mousetrap, and undercut your price, then you are
> going to lose the investment.
>
> Would we have innovators, if they knew someone would just steal their ideas?

Would we have innovators, if they knew some patent troll would steal their
ideas?

> Sort of like China, huh?

Or with patent trolls, closer to home?

:-) but not entirely joking

-- 
There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation,
naming, and off-by-one errors.

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#58587

On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 7:01:24 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:

> Would we have innovators, if they knew some patent troll would steal their
> ideas?

Ideas are a dime a dozen. The successful business is built on the execution of the idea. Innovation matters, not invention.

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#58642

lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 7:01:24 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:
> 
>> Would we have innovators, if they knew some patent troll would steal their
>> ideas?
> 
> Ideas are a dime a dozen. The successful business is built on the execution of the idea. Innovation matters, not invention.

BULLSHIT!  Without the idea, there is nothing.

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#58754

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 3:37:31 PM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 7:01:24 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:
>> 
>>> Would we have innovators, if they knew some patent troll would steal their
>>> ideas?
>> 
>> Ideas are a dime a dozen. The successful business is built on the execution
>> of the idea. Innovation matters, not invention.
> 
> BULLSHIT!  Without the idea, there is nothing.

Without a *good* idea, there is nothing.

How do you tell an idea is good? By the successful execution, no more, no less.

Like I said, the execution is everything, the idea is nothing.

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#58786

lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 3:37:31 PM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 7:01:24 PM UTC+12, Paul Sture wrote:
>>>
>>>> Would we have innovators, if they knew some patent troll would steal their
>>>> ideas?
>>> Ideas are a dime a dozen. The successful business is built on the execution
>>> of the idea. Innovation matters, not invention.
>> BULLSHIT!  Without the idea, there is nothing.
> 
> Without a *good* idea, there is nothing.
> 
> How do you tell an idea is good? By the successful execution, no more, no less.
> 
> Like I said, the execution is everything, the idea is nothing.

Do you even re-read what you write?

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#58588

On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 5:35:33 PM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
> So you incur considerable expense setting up production.  If anybody could then
> copy your better mousetrap, and undercut your price, then you are going to lose
> the investment.

How would they undercut your price, unless they came up with a way to make it cheaper than you? Would you claim ownership over that idea of theirs?

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#58626

On 6/19/16 3:33 AM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 5:35:33 PM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
>> So you incur considerable expense setting up production.  If anybody could then
>> copy your better mousetrap, and undercut your price, then you are going to lose
>> the investment.
>
> How would they undercut your price, unless they came up with a way to make it cheaper than you? Would you claim ownership over that idea of theirs?
>

By not having had to finance the R&D that led to the idea.

And, in the case of china as mentioned above, how do they undercut us?
How about no minimum wage laws.  The work that costs an American company
to make a t-shirt is probably 100 times as much as a Chinese company.
Multiply that by 1 million t-shirts and what do you have?  All of it
is really about players playing on a level field of play.  That seldom
happens today, especially in international commerce.There is no such
thing as a "fair trade agreement" one side profits and the other side
loses.

bill

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#58753

On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 8:06:01 AM UTC+12, Bill Gunshannon wrote:

> By not having had to finance the R&D that led to the idea.

It doesn’t take lots of R&D finance to come up with an idea. Remember, you don’t have to prove the idea works to get the patent; you just have to make it sound convincing.

> And, in the case of china as mentioned above, how do they undercut us?
> How about no minimum wage laws.  The work that costs an American company
> to make a t-shirt is probably 100 times as much as a Chinese company.

T-shirts are not patentable, so this is irrelevant.

And US patents are not valid in China (and vice versa), so that makes it even more irrelevant.

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#58625

On 6/18/16 10:59 PM, David Froble wrote:
> lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 3:21:36 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>> On 2016-06-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you own an idea?
>>> Yes. Copyights protect an implementation of an idea; a patent protects
>>> the idea itself.
>>
>> If someone came up with the same idea before you, that can invalidate
>> your patent (“prior art”).
>>
>> But if they came up with the same idea *after* you, they cannot claim
>> independent invention as a defence against infringement. Why is that?
>
> If they could, then what is the use of copyrights and patents.  Well,
> Ok, patents.  It's not independent if copywrited material is copied.

Could be if the  item copyrighted is intuitively obvious or the only
way something can be done.

bill

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#58624

On 6/18/16 7:35 PM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 3:21:36 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
>>
>> On 2016-06-18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can you own an idea?
>>
>> Yes. Copyights protect an implementation of an idea; a patent protects
>> the idea itself.
>
> If someone came up with the same idea before you, that can invalidate your patent (“prior art”).
>
> But if they came up with the same idea *after* you, they cannot claim independent invention as a defence against infringement. Why is that?
>

But they can argue for "obvious to a practitioner of the art".

bill

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#58623

On 6/18/16 11:21 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2016-06-18, lawrencedo99@gmail.com <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Can you own an idea?
>
> Yes. Copyights protect an implementation of an idea; a patent protects
> the idea itself.
>
> Simon.
>

Not everything that one considers "their idea" is patentable.

Thus the reason for all the current arguments over software patents.

bill

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#58832 — The smoking gun

On 17-Jun-16 4:56 PM, Richard Maher wrote:
> For those of you who've been following on along at home all these years,
> and may have a passing interest in what I was talking about, you can
> find the source-code for my Applet at
> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7Rmd3Rn8_hDY0RkbWwtVV9DdDg&usp=sharing
>
>
> For those of you who are new, my Applet facilitated the following
> UA/Browser<->Application Server functionality: -
>
> - Single-Signon without session-hijackable cookie bollocks?
>
> - Single, persistent network connection across multiple active tabs in a
>
> browser instance?
>
> - Full-on synchronous of asynchronous I/O capability?
>
> - 1:M relationship between messages sent to received?
>
> - Retention of server-affinity if/when needed?
>
> - Run-time discovery of Application Servers
>
> - Takes up 0px by 0px GUI real estate
>
> - Dependency injection on the Handshake/authentication logic
>
> - and much much more . . .
>
> Anyway, I may be the last person on the planet to admit Applets are dead
> but I'm sure I'm not the only one who shed a tear at their passing.
>
> For the Javascript people this is how Tier3Client was instantiated: -
>
>       try {
>         t3Client = new Tier3Client(
>                        "Demo", "http://192.168.1.159/Applets/",
>                        2048, 1022, kickOff, epicFail, "ISO-8859-1", "N",
> Tier3Client.GUIAWT,
>                        null,Tier3Client.WARNING);
>       } catch (err){
>             alert((err.description||err.message));
>         throw err;
>       }
>
> This example can be found in Randomator.html and the object code can be
> found in Tier3Client.js.
>
> Cheers Richard Maher
>
> PS. If anyone knows a half decent lawyer who operates on contingency
> fees please send him my way. HTTP/2 has a lot more than persistent,
> multiplexed, TCP/IP connections but I can tell you that that the
> similarity of algorithms involved is far greater and more substantial
> than the first few bars of "Stairway to Heaven"!
>
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36546726


The chronology of opportunity
=============================

* BTW I don't claim that they copied my PUSH example 'cos their effort 
is crap :-(


Exhibit A
----------

https://www.chromium.org/spdy/spdy-protocol

Draft 1
Originally published Nov 11, 2009.

Exhibit B
---------

Then try: -
https://www.w3.org/Search/Mail/Public/search?type-index=public-whatwg-archive&index-type=t&keywords=richard%27s&search=Search

and it will reveal my posts to WHATWG Sep thru Nov 2008. If you look at 
some of the names of Google employees participating in those threads I 
think you'll agree who's more than likely in the Library holding the 
Candle-Stick, dagger, and revolver: -

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2008Sep/0090.html

 > > > A copy of the Java Applet code is
 > > at: - http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/


https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2008Sep/0094.html

Please see the following for examples of what I am talking about: -

http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_flex.html
http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/demo_client_web.html

In both cases the Username is TIER3_DEMO and the password is QUEUE.

Obviously, you can "view source" for the HTML and Javascript and the Java
Applet and MXML source can be found at
http://manson.vistech.net/t3$examples/


https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2008Sep/0156.html

Hi David,

Sorry, forgot to mention a UDP Socket "push" technology demo, that I'd also
like to be able to achieve with WebSockets rather than Java Applet Sockets.
Please explain how the functionality employed in the following code could
ever be achieved with the proposed WebSockets: -

Tier3Pager.java
===========

/**
   * Copyight Tier3 Software. All rights reserved.
   *
   * Author: Richard Maher
   *
**/

import java.applet.Applet;
import java.awt.*;
import java.net.*;
import java.io.IOException;
import netscape.javascript.JSObject;
import netscape.javascript.JSException;

public class Tier3Pager extends Applet
{
     private        String         hostName;
     private        JSObject       browser;
     private static MessageThread  socketThread;
     private static Tier3Talk      chat;

     public class MessageThread extends Thread
     {
         private    DatagramSocket socket;
         private    DatagramPacket packet;
         private    String         threadData;

         public MessageThread(String name, String txt) throws Exception
         {
             super(name);

             byte[] buffer;
             threadData = txt;

             String port     = getParameter("PORT");
             String maxBuf   = getParameter("MAXBUF");
             try
                 {
                 if (port == null)
                     socket = new DatagramSocket();
                 else
                     socket = new DatagramSocket(Integer.parseInt(port));

                 if (maxBuf == null)
                     buffer = new byte[512];
                 else
                     buffer = new byte[Integer.parseInt(maxBuf)];

                 packet = new DatagramPacket(buffer, buffer.length);
                 }
             catch (Exception e)
                 {
                 e.printStackTrace();
                 System.out.println("Unable to create UDP Socket");
                 throw new Exception("Message thread could not be created");
                 }

             setDaemon(true);
             start();
         }

         public void shutdown()
         {
             socket.close();
         }

         public int getLocalPort()
         {
             return socket.getLocalPort();
         }

         public void run()
         {
             System.out.println("Started Message thread. ThreadData = " +
threadData);
             String args[] = {"Started Message Thread " + threadData};
             browser.call("alert", args);
             boolean stopThread = false;

         readLoop:
             while (!stopThread)
             {
               try
                   {
                   socket.receive(packet);
                   String received = new String(packet.getData(), 0,
packet.getLength());
                   processMessage(received);
                   }
               catch (SocketException e)
                   {
                   System.out.println("Shutting up shop");
                   stopThread = true;
                   continue readLoop;
                   }
               catch (IOException e)
                   {
                   e.printStackTrace();
                   System.out.println("Unable to retrieve UDP message");
                   }
             }

             System.out.println("Thread run() unit terminating");
         }

         public void processMessage(String msgText)
         {
              int msgType = Integer.parseInt(msgText.substring(0,2));
              switch (msgType){
                case    1:
                              chat.append(msgText.substring(2));
                              break;
                case    2:
                              String args[] = {msgText.substring(2)};
                              try {browser.call("priceUpdate", args);}
                              catch (JSException e)
                              {
                                System.out.println("Error when calling JS
priceUpdate()");
                              }
                              break;
                default:
                              System.out.println("Unknown rec type
"+msgText);
              }
         }
     }

     public void init()
     {
         System.out.println("Initializing. . .");
         hostName = getCodeBase().getHost();

         chat = new Tier3Talk("Tier3 Messages");
         requestFocus();

         browser = JSObject.getWindow(this);

         if (socketThread == null)
         {
           try
               {
               socketThread = new MessageThread("MsgDaemon", "SomeData");
               }
           catch (Exception e)
               {
               e.printStackTrace();
               System.out.println("Could not init Tier3Pager");
               }
         }
     }

     public void alert(String alertText)
     {
         String args[] = {alertText};
         browser.call("alert", args);
     }

     public void destroy()
     {
         if (chat != null)
             chat.dispose();

         boolean stillDying;

         if (socketThread != null){
             socketThread.shutdown();
             do
             {
                 stillDying = false;
                 System.out.println("Joining MessageThread");
                 try {socketThread.join();}
                 catch (InterruptedException e){
                     System.out.println("Interrupted Join");
                     stillDying = true;
                 }
             } while (stillDying);

             socketThread = null;
         }

         System.out.println("Tier3Pager Applet Rundown complete");
         super.destroy();
     }
}

Tier3Talk.java
===========

/**
   * Copyright Tier3 Software. All rights reserved.
   *
   * Author: Richard Maher
   *
**/

import java.awt.*;
import java.awt.event.*;

public class Tier3Talk  extends Frame
                         implements WindowStateListener
{
     TextArea chatPanel  = new TextArea("Server messages will appear
below: -", 10, 50);
     Toolkit  toolkit    = Toolkit.getDefaultToolkit();
     boolean  windowDown = true;

     public Tier3Talk(String heading)
     {
         super(heading);
         setBackground(Color.gray);

         chatPanel.setEditable(false);

         Panel panel = new Panel();
         panel.setLayout(new FlowLayout(FlowLayout.CENTER));
         panel.add(chatPanel);
         add("Center", panel);

         Dimension screenDim = toolkit.getScreenSize();
         pack();
         Dimension windowDim = getSize();
         setLocation((screenDim.width - windowDim.width),(screenDim.height -
windowDim.height));

         setResizable(false);
         addWindowStateListener(this);
         setExtendedState(Frame.ICONIFIED);
         setVisible(true);
     }

     public void append(String newMsg)
     {
         chatPanel.append("\n" + newMsg);
         if (windowDown)
             setExtendedState(Frame.NORMAL);
         toolkit.beep();
     }

     public void windowStateChanged(WindowEvent we)
     {
         switch (we.getNewState())
         {
             case Frame.ICONIFIED:
                 windowDown = true;
                 break;
             case Frame.NORMAL:
                 windowDown = false;
                 break;
             default:
                 System.out.println("Event of no interest" +
we.getNewState());
         }
     }
}

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