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Groups > comp.os.vms > #58153 > unrolled thread

VMS Features I Wish Linux Had

Started bylawrencedo99@gmail.com
First post2016-06-09 20:37 -0700
Last post2016-07-02 20:05 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 178 — 28 participants

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Contents

  VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-09 20:37 -0700
    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-10 08:17 -0500
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-10 17:04 +0200
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had osuvman50@gmail.com - 2016-06-10 08:34 -0700
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-10 12:12 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-10 20:28 +0200
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-10 18:32 +0000
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-10 20:44 +0200
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-10 15:35 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-11 09:07 +0200
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-11 10:52 -0400
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-11 16:59 +0200
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 11:12 +0200
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-12 12:32 +0200
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-12 04:50 -0700
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 14:12 +0200
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-12 14:47 +0200
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 17:14 +0200
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Hans Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> - 2016-06-12 09:40 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-12 16:06 -0400
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had abrsvc <dansabrservices@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-12 13:19 -0700
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-12 16:32 -0400
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:19 +0000
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Hans Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> - 2016-06-12 14:20 -0700
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-12 21:03 +0200
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:11 +0200
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-12 21:16 +0200
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:27 +0200
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 14:00 -0400
                                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-13 21:35 +0200
                                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) - 2016-06-14 11:28 -0400
                                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 10:31 -0400
                                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-16 14:47 +0000
                                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 12:19 -0400
                                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-16 16:44 +0000
                                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-16 18:23 +0000
                                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-16 21:26 +0000
                                  VMS and Sweden, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-14 19:33 +0000
                                    Re: VMS and Sweden, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-14 23:36 +0200
                                      Re: VMS and Sweden, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-16 18:18 +0000
                                    Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 12:39 +0200
                                      Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-19 13:51 +0000
                                        Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 19:43 +0200
                                          Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:53 -0400
                                            Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 22:44 -0700
                                              Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 13:21 -0400
                                                Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:02 -0700
                                            Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-20 11:25 +0000
                                          Re: Microsoft buys LinkedIn, Was: Re: VMS and Sweden Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 22:02 +0200
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 16:53 -0400
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-12 13:34 -0700
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 13:54 -0400
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-12 13:32 -0700
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-13 13:07 +0000
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 14:06 -0400
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 13:48 -0400
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-13 13:41 -0700
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-13 13:47 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-13 22:34 +0000
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-13 20:22 -0400
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-14 04:26 +0000
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-14 18:59 -0500
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-14 21:11 -0400
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-15 02:32 -0700
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> - 2016-06-12 16:54 +0300
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-12 15:52 +0000
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Henry Crun <mike@rechtman.com> - 2016-06-12 20:42 +0300
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-12 19:35 +0000
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 14:10 -0400
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-13 13:43 -0400
      Filename completion, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-10 18:29 +0000
        Re: Filename completion, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-10 22:14 +0200
          Re: Filename completion, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-11 00:06 +0200
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-10 20:05 +0000
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-11 09:12 +0200
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Joukj <joukj@hrem.nano.tudelft.nl> - 2016-06-13 09:37 +0200
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 09:56 +0200
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-13 10:53 +0000
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> - 2016-06-11 09:33 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-11 10:53 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-11 15:27 +0000
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-12 03:15 +0000
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 11:19 +0200
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 18:55 +0000
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 08:59 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 15:55 +0200
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-13 19:36 +0000
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-13 13:46 -0700
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-13 21:20 +0000
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-13 17:27 -0700
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-13 23:55 -0700
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 00:12 -0700
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-14 09:36 -0400
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 10:32 +0000
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 11:24 +0200
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 10:42 +0000
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 20:12 +0200
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-14 09:32 -0400
                  Re: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-14 10:58 -0400
                    Re: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 15:25 +0000
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 11:22 +0200
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 10:35 +0000
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 20:16 +0200
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 20:37 +0000
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-14 18:27 -0400
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 11:24 +0200
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-15 11:57 +0000
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 14:39 +0200
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-15 08:58 -0400
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 15:30 +0200
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-15 14:35 +0000
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 19:29 +0200
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-15 13:26 -0500
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-16 11:18 +0200
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-16 09:57 +0000
                                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-16 13:58 +0200
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-16 15:20 -0500
                                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:17 +0200
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 11:21 +0200
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 12:59 +0200
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-15 11:53 +0000
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 16:51 -0400
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 11:28 +0200
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 10:47 +0000
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 20:17 +0200
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 20:55 +0000
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 11:31 +0200
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-14 18:29 -0400
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-14 04:14 -0700
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-14 11:25 +0000
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 20:21 +0200
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-14 09:44 -0400
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-14 20:22 +0200
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-14 19:23 +0000
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 11:34 +0200
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-15 03:17 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-15 13:04 +0200
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 05:34 +0200
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 21:45 -0700
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-16 18:31 +0000
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-15 02:36 -0700
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Hans Vlems <hvlems@freenet.de> - 2016-06-15 11:53 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-15 19:10 +0000
                        Terminals, was: Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-16 18:45 +0000
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-16 18:33 +0000
    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 02:15 -0700
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 03:58 -0700
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-30 14:25 +0200
      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-30 11:29 -0400
        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 15:29 -0700
          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-30 20:59 -0400
            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-01 11:21 -0400
              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 12:41 -0400
                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-01 14:39 -0400
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-01 15:13 -0700
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-01 21:31 -0400
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-02 16:33 -0400
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-02 16:57 -0400
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-02 17:34 -0400
                    Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-07-03 06:40 +0000
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 00:09 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-03 08:12 -0400
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-03 12:35 +0000
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-07-03 10:50 +0200
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-07-03 11:05 +0000
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-03 12:29 +0000
                      Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-07-03 11:44 +0000
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-07-03 06:59 -0700
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-07-03 15:58 +0000
                          Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 14:38 -0700
                            Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-07-03 17:53 -0500
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 16:19 -0700
                                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-07-03 21:03 -0500
                                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 21:11 -0700
                              Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-07-04 05:48 -0700
                                Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 16:55 -0700
                        Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-03 14:33 -0700
                  Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-02 20:05 +0000

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#58212

FromSimon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP>
Date2016-06-11 15:27 +0000
Message-ID<njhald$6qe$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58205
On 2016-06-11, Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/10/16 9:17 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:
>> On 6/9/2016 10:37 PM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> The other one is the terminal driver. My first impression of Unix
>>> was  what a crap terminal driver it had, that echoes everything as
>>  > soon as it’s typed. Seems like no other system has seen fit to
>>  > emulate the thoughtful VMS feature of not echoing anything until
>>  > it is actually being recognized as input to a program.
>>
>> Which can let text not intended to be echoed like passwords leak to the
>> terminal output.
>>
>
> Unix (and thus Linux) has built in method that prevents things like
> passwords from echoing.
>

John wasn't talking about what happens when you start typing after the
password read I/O has been queued. He was talking about what happens
if you start typing before that and he is quite correct - text which
should not be echoed _does_ get echoed.

> Once again people pointing out non-existant weaknesses in Unix.  I
> wish people would take the time to actually learn about it before
> trying to criticize it.
>

I criticise things in Unix (and VMS for that matter) precisely because
I _do_ understand them.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

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#58227

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-06-12 03:15 +0000
Message-ID<njik4m$7gl$3@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#58212
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:

>On 2016-06-11, Bill Gunshannon <bill.gunshannon@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/10/16 9:17 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:
>>> On 6/9/2016 10:37 PM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The other one is the terminal driver. My first impression of Unix
>>>> was  what a crap terminal driver it had, that echoes everything as
>>>  > soon as it’s typed. Seems like no other system has seen fit to
>>>  > emulate the thoughtful VMS feature of not echoing anything until
>>>  > it is actually being recognized as input to a program.
>>>
>>> Which can let text not intended to be echoed like passwords leak to the
>>> terminal output.
>>>
>>
>> Unix (and thus Linux) has built in method that prevents things like
>> passwords from echoing.
>>

>John wasn't talking about what happens when you start typing after the
>password read I/O has been queued. He was talking about what happens
>if you start typing before that and he is quite correct - text which
>should not be echoed _does_ get echoed.

Exactly.  I see this a lot on Unix type systems.  Type login, return, 
password in quick succession and I see my password echoing back at me.  
VMS doesn't echo anything until there is an outstanding read consuming it.

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#58231

FromJohnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Date2016-06-12 11:19 +0200
Message-ID<njj9fh$r03$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>
In reply to#58205
On 2016-06-11 15:33, Bill Gunshannon wrote:
> On 6/10/16 9:17 AM, John E. Malmberg wrote:
>> On 6/9/2016 10:37 PM, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> The other one is the terminal driver. My first impression of Unix
>>> was  what a crap terminal driver it had, that echoes everything as
>>  > soon as it’s typed. Seems like no other system has seen fit to
>>  > emulate the thoughtful VMS feature of not echoing anything until
>>  > it is actually being recognized as input to a program.
>>
>> Which can let text not intended to be echoed like passwords leak to the
>> terminal output.
>>
>
> Unix (and thus Linux) has built in method that prevents things like
> passwords from echoing.

You missed the point.
If you are expecting a password prompt, you might start typing in the 
password, only to realize that the program had not yet come to the point 
where it turns off echoing, and since the Unix terminal driver echoes 
things as you type them, and not when the program actually reads the 
data, you password is now visible on your screen.

VMS, on the other hand, do not echo anything before it is actually being 
read. So in the VMS scenario, you start typing the password even though 
the program have not yet turned off echoing. But nothing is being 
echoed, as nothing is reading that input yet. And when the password read 
is issued, the terminal echoing have been turned off, and so the input 
is not echoed.

I know that it is common for people not used to other solutions to have 
a hard time even understanding the problems. Easy to become blind to the 
problems when you are just so used to one world.

> Once again people pointing out non-existant weaknesses in Unix.  I
> wish people would take the time to actually learn about it before
> trying to criticize it.

No. This is a real problem. And it is not only passwords. You also get 
output messed up if output happens before the reading, such as a prompt, 
which then gets printed *after* the input instead of before if the user 
already started typing. This can cause all kind of confused screen content.

	Johnny

-- 
Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
                                   ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt@softjar.se             ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

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#58249

Fromhelbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
Date2016-06-12 18:55 +0000
Message-ID<njkb7b$tu4$1@news.kjsl.com>
In reply to#58231
In article <njj9fh$r03$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist
<bqt@softjar.se> writes: 

> If you are expecting a password prompt, you might start typing in the 
> password, only to realize that the program had not yet come to the point 
> where it turns off echoing, and since the Unix terminal driver echoes 
> things as you type them, and not when the program actually reads the 
> data, you password is now visible on your screen.
> 
> VMS, on the other hand, do not echo anything before it is actually being 
> read. So in the VMS scenario, you start typing the password even though 
> the program have not yet turned off echoing. But nothing is being 
> echoed, as nothing is reading that input yet. And when the password read 
> is issued, the terminal echoing have been turned off, and so the input 
> is not echoed.

Right.  Same for the up-arrow key to recall a command.

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#58296

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-13 08:59 -0400
Message-ID<VLmcU$BI5Ooz@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58159
In article <njeel9$fq3$1@dont-email.me>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> writes:
> 
> One issue with the VMS terminal line editing is because it is handled in 
> the driver, it does not have access to the filesystem to allow it to do 
> filename completion.

   Which belongs in the CLI, not the terminal driver.  The CLI should be
   doing it's own command line editing,instead of leaning on the limited
   editing in the driver.

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#58305

FromJohnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Date2016-06-13 15:55 +0200
Message-ID<njmdvo$vo0$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>
In reply to#58296
On 2016-06-13 14:59, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <njeel9$fq3$1@dont-email.me>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> writes:
>>
>> One issue with the VMS terminal line editing is because it is handled in
>> the driver, it does not have access to the filesystem to allow it to do
>> filename completion.
>
>    Which belongs in the CLI, not the terminal driver.  The CLI should be
>    doing it's own command line editing,instead of leaning on the limited
>    editing in the driver.

I don't agree. I want command line editing, no matter if I'm at the CLI, 
or in some user application. And I do not consider it to be a good 
system design that every program should include their own version of 
commmand line editing.

That said, I usually tend to only look for filename expansion at the CLI 
level. But editing I want always.

	Johnny

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#58324

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-13 19:36 +0000
Message-ID<00B0A911.CA43AF13@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58305
In article <njmdvo$vo0$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>On 2016-06-13 14:59, Bob Koehler wrote:
>> In article <njeel9$fq3$1@dont-email.me>, "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> writes:
>>>
>>> One issue with the VMS terminal line editing is because it is handled in
>>> the driver, it does not have access to the filesystem to allow it to do
>>> filename completion.
>>
>>    Which belongs in the CLI, not the terminal driver.  The CLI should be
>>    doing it's own command line editing,instead of leaning on the limited
>>    editing in the driver.
>
>I don't agree. I want command line editing, no matter if I'm at the CLI, 
>or in some user application. And I do not consider it to be a good 
>system design that every program should include their own version of 
>commmand line editing.

In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using 
the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
switches, etc., then you're on your own.

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58326

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-13 13:46 -0700
Message-ID<e90cca68-697e-448b-9515-bfc6999612d0@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58324
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:19 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:

> In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using 
> the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
> switches, etc., then you're on your own.

I remember, in my limited attempts to create custom command-line tools for VMS, I looked at the DCL CLD thing, and decided it was just simpler to define a foreign command and use LIB$TPARSE.

The advantage of the POSIX command switches is, they’re very easy to parse. You don’t need any special library to do it, a little bit of custom scripting will do <https://github.com/ldo/render-useful/blob/master/render-batch>.

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#58330

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-13 21:20 +0000
Message-ID<00B0A920.698B2598@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58326
In article <e90cca68-697e-448b-9515-bfc6999612d0@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
>On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:19 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
>
>> In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using=
>=20
>> the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
>> switches, etc., then you're on your own.
>
>I remember, in my limited attempts to create custom command-line tools for =
>VMS, I looked at the DCL CLD thing, and decided it was just simpler to defi=
>ne a foreign command and use LIB$TPARSE.

Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some extensive
programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs statements) but
I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command syntax in a program, it
is CLI/CLD for me.  

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58335

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-13 17:27 -0700
Message-ID<be79d0c8-e200-46d7-a26c-bc41a84dc5bd@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58330
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some
> extensive programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs
> statements) but I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command
> syntax in a program, it is CLI/CLD for me.  

TPARSE was quite versatile, and could be used for other things besides command-line parsing. Whereas CLD was only good for one thing.

So when it came to deciding where to spend precious brain cells (which are likely still dormant and might not need much to wake them up), the decision was easy.

I even wrote VAX PASCAL routines to generate TPARSE tables at run-time. (Why? Because it was nicer than MACRO assembler.) As I recall, there were two separate tables: I think the state definitions went in one, and the strings in the other. Everything was referred to via relative offsets, so the structures were entirely relocatable.

See, those brain cells are starting to wake up already...

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#58340

Fromjohnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk
Date2016-06-13 23:55 -0700
Message-ID<c16bef53-6336-4362-ad57-7de90f388790@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58335
On Tuesday, 14 June 2016 01:27:15 UTC+1, lawren...@gmail.com  wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
> > Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some
> > extensive programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs
> > statements) but I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command
> > syntax in a program, it is CLI/CLD for me.  
> 
> TPARSE was quite versatile, and could be used for other things besides command-line parsing. Whereas CLD was only good for one thing.
> 
> So when it came to deciding where to spend precious brain cells (which are likely still dormant and might not need much to wake them up), the decision was easy.
> 
> I even wrote VAX PASCAL routines to generate TPARSE tables at run-time. (Why? Because it was nicer than MACRO assembler.) As I recall, there were two separate tables: I think the state definitions went in one, and the strings in the other. Everything was referred to via relative offsets, so the structures were entirely relocatable.
> 
> See, those brain cells are starting to wake up already...

Some of us knew that TPARSE and friends do more than CLI stuff. 

I once inherited a cross assembler based on TPARSE. The original
developer, a very bright chap, had thought it was a bright idea but
changed his mind later based on maintainability and user feedback.

The users and management didn't think it was much of an
improvement on its predecessor once they found that its only real
error message was no more specific than "syntax error on line %d"
and (according to the original developer) there seemed little
chance of improving things while still using TPARSE.

Scrapped and rewritten from scratch, still using a table-driven
approach, but not TPARSE, and not just states and transitions. 
Maybe TPARSE works better without potentially erroneous input
from users who want to be told *what exactly* the assembler
doesn't like. 

AFAIK the front end is still in use three decades later (the
back end has changed long ago due to changing the object
output format to be compatible with VAX/VMS tools).

gcc/gas is great (considering), but why would anyone move
to a swiss penknife like gcc if their own tool for the
safety-critical job is relatively simple maintainable
helpful and proven? And when gcc/gas, even if it offers
support for the chip in question, uses different syntax
from the chip vendor's standards  already used in the
company's existing collection of assembler source (9900,
Z8K, 68K, DIY RISC, etc).

Any tool's usefulness may depend on the particular
application. The good craftsman chooses the right tool for
the job. Or in some cases always uses a hammer because it's
all that's permitted.

Occasionally it can be helpful to pay attention to users' (and
even maybe management's) requirements as well as developers'
requirements.

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#58341

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-14 00:12 -0700
Message-ID<c054c738-5e30-4360-8fec-6f8fcae82df6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58340
On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 6:55:06 PM UTC+12, johnwa...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:

> I once inherited a cross assembler based on TPARSE.

Nowadays I don’t think I would use it. Lexical analysis is always best hand-coded.

Even syntax analysis seems best that way. These days nobody bothers with anything as complex as rule-driven LR(k) parsers; it’s LL(1) recursive descent all the way.

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#58354

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-14 09:36 -0400
Message-ID<gzo0VFXvid$5@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58340
In article <c16bef53-6336-4362-ad57-7de90f388790@googlegroups.com>, johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk writes:
> 
> gcc/gas is great (considering), but why would anyone move
> to a swiss penknife like gcc if their own tool for the
> safety-critical job is relatively simple maintainable
> helpful and proven? 

   There are human (life) rated systems that use gcc based compilers.
   There are also chips so poorly understood by gcc that it cut
   performance in half from what the vendor's compiler did.

   YMWV.

   But if you have a simple, maintainable solution, keep it.

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#58346

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-14 10:32 +0000
Message-ID<00B0A98E.F986AEE2@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58335
In article <be79d0c8-e200-46d7-a26c-bc41a84dc5bd@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
>On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 9:20:59 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
>> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some
>> extensive programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRA=
>Ns
>> statements) but I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command
>> syntax in a program, it is CLI/CLD for me. =20
>
>TPARSE was quite versatile, and could be used for other things besides comm=
>and-line parsing. Whereas CLD was only good for one thing.

I can arguing with you about that!  It just seems overkill to parse DCL-like
syntax when there's CLI/CLD.  However, I've used LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE to augment
CLI/CLD syntax when I wanted something that wasn't able to be parsed out with
CLI/CLD.  



>So when it came to deciding where to spend precious brain cells (which are =
>likely still dormant and might not need much to wake them up), the decision=
> was easy.
>
>I even wrote VAX PASCAL routines to generate TPARSE tables at run-time. (Wh=
>y? Because it was nicer than MACRO assembler.) As I recall, there were two =
>separate tables: I think the state definitions went in one, and the strings=
> in the other. Everything was referred to via relative offsets, so the stru=
>ctures were entirely relocatable.
>
>See, those brain cells are starting to wake up already...

:)
-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58344

FromJohnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Date2016-06-14 11:24 +0200
Message-ID<njoifi$lv7$3@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>
In reply to#58330
On 2016-06-13 23:20, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <e90cca68-697e-448b-9515-bfc6999612d0@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:19 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
>>
>>> In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using=
>> =20
>>> the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
>>> switches, etc., then you're on your own.
>>
>> I remember, in my limited attempts to create custom command-line tools for =
>> VMS, I looked at the DCL CLD thing, and decided it was just simpler to defi=
>> ne a foreign command and use LIB$TPARSE.
>
> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some extensive
> programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs statements) but
> I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command syntax in a program, it
> is CLI/CLD for me.

And CLI/CLD is totally missing the point I was making. I'm not talking 
about command line parsing. I'm talking about my own program doing 
terminal I/O. I want line editing under those circumstances as well. How 
will CLI command line editing help me there???

	Johnny

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#58348

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-14 10:42 +0000
Message-ID<00B0A990.641863F8@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58330
In article <njoifi$lv7$3@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>On 2016-06-13 23:20, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>> In article <e90cca68-697e-448b-9515-bfc6999612d0@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
>>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:19 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
>>>
>>>> In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using=
>>> =20
>>>> the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
>>>> switches, etc., then you're on your own.
>>>
>>> I remember, in my limited attempts to create custom command-line tools for =
>>> VMS, I looked at the DCL CLD thing, and decided it was just simpler to defi=
>>> ne a foreign command and use LIB$TPARSE.
>>
>> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some extensive
>> programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs statements) but
>> I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command syntax in a program, it
>> is CLI/CLD for me.
>
>And CLI/CLD is totally missing the point I was making. I'm not talking 
>about command line parsing. I'm talking about my own program doing 
>terminal I/O. I want line editing under those circumstances as well. How 
>will CLI command line editing help me there???

Well, think about it.  Do you use an editor?  EDT and TPU take input from the
terminal (keyboard input/terminal display) and both have never failed me when
I needed to move about and edit that input.  Why should the terminal driver be
the place to buffer all of your input to be corrected/edited because you make
a mistake or wish to shorten your typing effort with recall and reuse of prior
input?  

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58363

FromJohnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se>
Date2016-06-14 20:12 +0200
Message-ID<njphdj$r4b$2@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>
In reply to#58348
On 2016-06-14 12:42, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
> In article <njoifi$lv7$3@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE>, Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> writes:
>> On 2016-06-13 23:20, VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG wrote:
>>> In article <e90cca68-697e-448b-9515-bfc6999612d0@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
>>>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 7:36:19 AM UTC+12, VAXman- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In VMS, what do you think processes command lines?  Assuming you're using=
>>>> =20
>>>>> the VMS CLI callback in yor program(s).  If it's just stupid unix-line -X
>>>>> switches, etc., then you're on your own.
>>>>
>>>> I remember, in my limited attempts to create custom command-line tools for =
>>>> VMS, I looked at the DCL CLD thing, and decided it was just simpler to defi=
>>>> ne a foreign command and use LIB$TPARSE.
>>>
>>> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some extensive
>>> programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs statements) but
>>> I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command syntax in a program, it
>>> is CLI/CLD for me.
>>
>> And CLI/CLD is totally missing the point I was making. I'm not talking
>> about command line parsing. I'm talking about my own program doing
>> terminal I/O. I want line editing under those circumstances as well. How
>> will CLI command line editing help me there???
>
> Well, think about it.  Do you use an editor?  EDT and TPU take input from the
> terminal (keyboard input/terminal display) and both have never failed me when
> I needed to move about and edit that input.  Why should the terminal driver be
> the place to buffer all of your input to be corrected/edited because you make
> a mistake or wish to shorten your typing effort with recall and reuse of prior
> input?

I don't think an editor, or other special tool for a terminal is a valid 
source for an argument here.

There are always special tools that falls outside of the general case. 
Trying to make an argument based on that is just not meaningful. You 
could just as well claim that you don't need interactive terminals at 
all, as batch operations don't use them.

	Johnny

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#58353

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-14 09:32 -0400
Message-ID<dhExYoDyVs$F@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58330
In article <00B0A920.698B2598@SendSpamHere.ORG>,   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG writes:
> 
> Huh?  You thought LIB$TPARSE was simpler than CLI/CLD?  I've done some extensive
> programming around LIB$T(ABLE_)PARSE (thousands of $STATEs/$TRANs statements) but
> I can tell you that when it comes to a having VMS command syntax in a program, it
> is CLI/CLD for me.  

   I feel the same way.  Early on I looked at LIB$TPARSE and decided not
   to try to learn it.  CLD was a piece of cake.

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#58357 — Re: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had)

FromStephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
Date2016-06-14 10:58 -0400
SubjectRe: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had)
Message-ID<njp62q$esl$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58353
On 2016-06-14 13:32:45 +0000, Bob Koehler said:

>  I feel the same way.  Early on I looked at LIB$TPARSE and decided not 
> to try to learn it.  CLD was a piece of cake.

The lib$table_parse documentation is comparatively weak, and the use of 
macros and not a DSL is not something likely to be emulated.   The tool 
itself is easy, though quite primitive in terms of what you have to 
code to use it.  Lots of glue code.  The need for glue code for many of 
the OpenVMS APIs has been a complaint of mine for a while.   There are 
ways around that necessity now, ways that hadn't been common in the 
1970s; when the majority of the OpenVMS API patterns were conceived.  
e.g.  OO.  But I digress.  There are also limitations around the 
token-parsing grammar, too.   http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/1905

If you're creating a DCL-style command, then certainly use the SET 
COMMAND tool and CLD files.   If you're solving a problem that does not 
lend itself to DCL syntax, then lib$table_parse or some other parsing 
tool or library will be far preferable and far more effective than 
using CLD files.

Use of flex/bison, byacc, Ragel, or other such tools are much more 
common these days, though.  Ragel http://labs.hoffmanlabs.com/node/1629 
and byacc http://invisible-island.net/byacc/byacc.html are already 
available on OpenVMS, and byacc features licensing that would likely 
allow its incorporation into OpenVMS itself, if VSI were so inclined.


-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC 

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#58358 — Re: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had)

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-14 15:25 +0000
SubjectRe: Parsers (was Re: VMS Features I Wish Linux Had)
Message-ID<00B0A9B7.E99CAFF8@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58357
In article <njp62q$esl$1@dont-email.me>, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> writes:
>On 2016-06-14 13:32:45 +0000, Bob Koehler said:
>
>>  I feel the same way.  Early on I looked at LIB$TPARSE and decided not 
>> to try to learn it.  CLD was a piece of cake.
>
>The lib$table_parse documentation is comparatively weak, and the use of 
>macros and not a DSL is not something likely to be emulated.   The tool 
>itself is easy, though quite primitive in terms of what you have to 
>code to use it.  Lots of glue code.  The need for glue code for many of 

What glue?  The action routines?  That's one of its strengths because it allows
me to decide what to do as it's being parsed apart.
-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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