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Groups > comp.os.vms > #58251 > unrolled thread

FREESPADRIFT

Started byhelbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
First post2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
Last post2016-06-17 10:39 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 338 — 25 participants

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Contents

  FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
    Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:17 +0200
      Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:01 +0000
        Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:23 +0000
          Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:36 +0000
            Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-14 09:02 +0000
      Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:22 +0000
        Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 11:45 +0200
    Re: FREESPADRIFT "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-12 16:08 -0400
    Re: FREESPADRIFT brendan welch <w1lpg@uml.edu> - 2016-06-12 17:20 -0400
    Re: FREESPADRIFT koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 09:20 -0400
      Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 18:42 -0700
        Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-16 18:24 +0000
          Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 15:15 -0400
          Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 16:01 -0700
            Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-16 19:56 -0400
              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 17:23 -0700
                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-16 21:16 -0500
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 20:11 -0700
                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 10:26 -0400
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-17 15:28 -0700
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 00:39 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-06-17 22:41 +0000
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 23:14 -0400
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 20:10 -0400
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 10:54 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 02:19 -0700
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 13:51 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:31 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:24 -0400
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 +0000
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 20:02 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-19 01:46 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:56 -0400
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:32 -0400
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:42 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:00 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:12 -0400
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:45 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:29 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:48 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 21:19 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:35 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:26 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:55 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:38 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 14:53 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 16:18 +0000
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-21 18:27 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:40 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:34 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 17:07 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:19 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:36 +0000
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:47 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 16:06 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:33 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:46 -0400
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:16 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:33 -0700
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:01 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:23 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:29 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:58 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:40 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:03 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:55 +0000
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:36 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:43 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:33 +0200
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-28 09:02 -0400
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:48 +0200
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:59 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:06 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 17:05 +0000
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:50 -0400
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:24 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:34 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 22:02 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-24 08:52 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 16:54 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-24 13:41 -0400
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 18:27 +0000
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:40 +0200
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:33 +0000
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:14 +0200
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:50 +0200
                                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:02 +0000
                                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:35 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:26 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:15 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 09:35 -0400
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:15 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:42 +0200
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:56 +0000
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:41 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:09 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:41 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:43 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 22:18 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:53 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:17 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:16 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:31 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:22 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:27 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:55 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 22:15 -0400
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-24 10:50 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-24 11:19 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:12 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:17 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:34 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 13:40 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 20:21 +0200
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:28 +0000
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:38 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 21:29 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 23:40 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 22:39 +0000
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:32 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 12:15 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 14:54 +0200
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 13:45 +0000
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 15:58 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 14:07 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 16:56 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-07-11 09:34 -0400
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 11:31 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:48 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-11 15:49 -0400
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-12 13:03 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:47 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 11:01 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 12:48 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 15:12 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 15:15 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 17:56 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 18:01 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:00 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 21:02 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 19:38 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-01 12:58 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 17:42 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:03 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-30 15:17 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 20:02 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 10:51 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-27 21:09 -0700
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 23:39 -0700
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:54 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:44 -0700
                          Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:47 -0400
                            Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 19:47 -0700
                              Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 07:38 +0200
                                Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 22:46 -0700
                                  Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 11:41 +0200
                                    Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 03:13 -0700
                                      Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:13 -0400
                                        Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 16:55 -0700
                                          Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 10:18 -0400
                                            Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700
                                      Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 17:38 +0200
                                        Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 17:01 -0700
                              Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 08:34 -0400
                                Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-20 07:40 -0500
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:29 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 00:27 -0700
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 09:43 -0400
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:36 -0700
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:27 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:49 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:03 -0700
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:29 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 15:51 -0700
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:56 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 02:41 -0700
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 11:54 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 03:04 -0700
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 12:57 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 00:15 -0700
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 14:51 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 15:37 -0700
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:14 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 17:38 -0700
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:04 -0700
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:02 +0200
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:09 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-04 12:30 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 09:45 -0400
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 20:07 +0200
                        RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-18 18:41 +0000
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:48 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 19:56 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 23:04 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 09:04 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:20 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 14:18 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 15:03 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:49 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:46 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:26 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:07 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 06:47 -0700
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:54 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 17:37 +0200
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:47 -0700
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 21:28 +0200
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 13:27 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:19 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-20 14:39 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 11:14 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:30 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 20:39 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 22:10 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 22:15 -0400
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 00:57 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 19:42 -0700
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 23:06 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:27 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 14:52 -0400
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-21 09:52 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:16 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:44 -0700
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 15:02 +0000
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:10 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-22 09:53 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:25 +0200
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:18 -0400
                                          System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:49 +0000
                                            Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 12:26 -0400
                                              Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:44 +0200
                                              Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-23 12:43 -0500
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:40 -0400
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:29 -0700
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:03 +0000
                                                    Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-27 09:09 -0400
                                                    Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:54 +0000
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 18:59 +0000
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 17:04 -0400
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-24 14:54 -0500
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:41 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:45 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 17:03 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 19:10 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "-------------------------Michael W. Farrell" <mfarrell001@verizon.net> - 2016-06-23 01:10 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:16 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-22 22:04 -0500
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:52 +0000
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:02 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:16 +0000
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:58 +0200
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 13:05 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:27 +0000
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-22 12:46 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:42 +0200
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 10:15 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 14:11 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:50 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 17:57 -0700
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 08:35 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 15:18 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 09:46 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 16:10 +0200
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:56 -0700
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-25 14:47 -0400
                                                MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-25 19:44 +0000
                                                  Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:16 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-26 10:26 +0200
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:23 -0400
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:30 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:20 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-26 12:43 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:34 -0400
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:10 +0000
                                                          Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-27 00:46 -0400
                                                            Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-28 03:16 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:41 -0700
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0000
                                                          Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-27 15:44 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:09 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:23 +0000
                                                  Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:07 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:30 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:30 +0000
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 08:59 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:40 +0200
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:05 -0700
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 15:00 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 01:40 +0200
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 00:18 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 10:10 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 01:50 -0700
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 11:03 +0200
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:57 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:00 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:54 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-24 21:24 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 12:43 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-25 12:52 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 21:37 +0200
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:07 -0400
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:47 -0400
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-19 14:40 +0000
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 20:14 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-20 19:19 +0000
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 21:29 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:02 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 13:59 -0700
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 19:12 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:03 -0400
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:35 -0400
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:01 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-18 12:52 -0500
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:05 -0700
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-07-04 19:11 +0200
            Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 02:57 +0000
            Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 07:24 +0200
              Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 02:28 -0400
                Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 16:56 +0200
                  Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 13:22 -0400
                    Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 20:53 +0200
                      Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 15:22 -0400
              Re: FREESPADRIFT Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200

Page 12 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 10 11 [12] 13 14 … 17  Next page →


#58665 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

From"Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com>
Date2016-06-20 10:19 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<mailman.11.1466432458.13355.info-vax_rbnsn.com@rbnsn.com>
In reply to#58661
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
> Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax
> Sent: 20-Jun-16 9:08 AM
> To: info-vax@rbnsn.com
> Cc: Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS
> Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
> 
> On 2016-06-20 03:26:09 +0000, David Froble said:
> 
> > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> >> On 2016-06-19 02:48:33 +0000, David Froble said:
> >>
> >>> Perhaps you are ready to re-write billions of dollars of existing
> software?
> >>>
> >>> Why cannot the old and new co-exist?
> >>
> >> That works for a while, but then you still have to update and test and
> >> maintain the old stuff, and there's a non-trivial and increasing cost
> >> to that effort.
> >
> > I got to jump all over this.
> >
> > While there are some specifics, such as needing TLS V1.2 because the
> > older stuff is no longer secure, in general, if software does needed
> > tasks, it will continue to perform those needed tasks.  Why does one
> > need to update, or test?  What are the non-trivial and increasing
> > costs?  Labor might cost more, but that's across the board, not just
> > for old stuff.  I just don't agree with the above statement.
> 
> Look at OpenVMS, David.  Really, really look at it.   Look at the
> password hash.  Look at the design of SYSUAF and of clustering.  Look
> at how PKE and TLS works, and how it is (not) integrated.  Look at what
> has happened with 64-bit addressing, and the effort involved in using
> that.   Fixing some of these cases compatibly is certainly possible,
> but that will mean leaving the old code around and — for cases such as
> TLS or weak hashes or such— and having old security code around is very
> far from desirable.   Compatibility means accretions of deprecated and
> variously under- or undocumented interfaces and tools which then
> either
> have to be tested and maintained and considered whenever working on
> related code or risk breaking existing applications.  Code accretions
> mean the time and effort involved in making future changes increases,
> too.  Sometimes dramatically.  Eventually asymptotically.
> 
> The vast majority of OpenVMS works well.    But there are areas that
> need to be rethought and refactored.   Some changes — like going to a
> flat address space and away from the current segmented model, or
> yanking out RMS and its rather baroque record access processing – will
> never happen.   Some — such as seeing executable code in 64-bit space
> –
> seem unlikely, but might be possible.    But in specific places,
> OpenVMS and some of the dependent applications really need to be
> broken
> apart, re-designed, rebuilt, and the old code deprecated.   Not
> everything.  Certainly not on a whim.   Just specific spots.  For good
> and valid and customer-benefiting reasons.
> 
> >> You often end up putting in place workarounds, and which almost
> always
> >> hamper new adoptions and new development, too.
> >
> > Nope.  Hasn't happened to me.  New development going on all the
> time.
> 
> There are things that fundamentally cannot change in OpenVMS without
> breaking applications.   Compatibility means never changing those
> things.   Compatibility means that what would some simple designs —
> such as a flat 64-bit address space — are unachievable.    Which leaves
> us with 32-bit and 64-bit descriptors, $mumble and $mumble64() calls,
> and a host of other arcana.
> 
> Compatibility is a most wonderful thing, right up until it becomes an
> impediment and a millstone.
> 

While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it
needs to address, you make it sound like all the other platforms
do not have major challenges as well. 

We both know these other platforms have their share of significant 
challenges as well - and these challenges include how to maintain 
compatibility while still moving forward with new technology that could 
enhance the underlying platform.

Remember - it's not the technology that Business types like, it’s the
ability of that technology (old OR new) to support their business and 
their customers that is important to them. 

And it’s the business that funds the IT groups.

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com












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#58666 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-20 14:39 +0000
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<00B0AE68.74A8F651@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58665
In article <mailman.11.1466432458.13355.info-vax_rbnsn.com@rbnsn.com>, "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> writes:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
>> Stephen Hoffman via Info-vax
>> Sent: 20-Jun-16 9:08 AM
>> To: info-vax@rbnsn.com
>> Cc: Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
>> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, =
>RMS
>> Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
>>=20
>> On 2016-06-20 03:26:09 +0000, David Froble said:
>>=20
>> > Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>> >> On 2016-06-19 02:48:33 +0000, David Froble said:
>> >>
>> >>> Perhaps you are ready to re-write billions of dollars of existing
>> software?
>> >>>
>> >>> Why cannot the old and new co-exist?
>> >>
>> >> That works for a while, but then you still have to update and test =
>and
>> >> maintain the old stuff, and there's a non-trivial and increasing =
>cost
>> >> to that effort.
>> >
>> > I got to jump all over this.
>> >
>> > While there are some specifics, such as needing TLS V1.2 because the
>> > older stuff is no longer secure, in general, if software does needed
>> > tasks, it will continue to perform those needed tasks.  Why does one
>> > need to update, or test?  What are the non-trivial and increasing
>> > costs?  Labor might cost more, but that's across the board, not just
>> > for old stuff.  I just don't agree with the above statement.
>>=20
>> Look at OpenVMS, David.  Really, really look at it.   Look at the
>> password hash.  Look at the design of SYSUAF and of clustering.  Look
>> at how PKE and TLS works, and how it is (not) integrated.  Look at =
>what
>> has happened with 64-bit addressing, and the effort involved in using
>> that.   Fixing some of these cases compatibly is certainly possible,
>> but that will mean leaving the old code around and =E2=80=94 for cases =
>such as
>> TLS or weak hashes or such=E2=80=94 and having old security code =
>around is very
>> far from desirable.   Compatibility means accretions of deprecated and
>> variously under- or undocumented interfaces and tools which then
>> either
>> have to be tested and maintained and considered whenever working on
>> related code or risk breaking existing applications.  Code accretions
>> mean the time and effort involved in making future changes increases,
>> too.  Sometimes dramatically.  Eventually asymptotically.
>>=20
>> The vast majority of OpenVMS works well.    But there are areas that
>> need to be rethought and refactored.   Some changes =E2=80=94 like =
>going to a
>> flat address space and away from the current segmented model, or
>> yanking out RMS and its rather baroque record access processing =
>=E2=80=93 will
>> never happen.   Some =E2=80=94 such as seeing executable code in =
>64-bit space
>> =E2=80=93
>> seem unlikely, but might be possible.    But in specific places,
>> OpenVMS and some of the dependent applications really need to be
>> broken
>> apart, re-designed, rebuilt, and the old code deprecated.   Not
>> everything.  Certainly not on a whim.   Just specific spots.  For good
>> and valid and customer-benefiting reasons.
>>=20
>> >> You often end up putting in place workarounds, and which almost
>> always
>> >> hamper new adoptions and new development, too.
>> >
>> > Nope.  Hasn't happened to me.  New development going on all the
>> time.
>>=20
>> There are things that fundamentally cannot change in OpenVMS without
>> breaking applications.   Compatibility means never changing those
>> things.   Compatibility means that what would some simple designs =
>=E2=80=94
>> such as a flat 64-bit address space =E2=80=94 are unachievable.    =
>Which leaves
>> us with 32-bit and 64-bit descriptors, $mumble and $mumble64() calls,
>> and a host of other arcana.
>>=20
>> Compatibility is a most wonderful thing, right up until it becomes an
>> impediment and a millstone.
>>=20
>
>While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it
>needs to address, you make it sound like all the other platforms
>do not have major challenges as well.=20
>
>We both know these other platforms have their share of significant=20
>challenges as well - and these challenges include how to maintain=20
>compatibility while still moving forward with new technology that could=20
>enhance the underlying platform.

Look at what moving forward has done with/for 'El CRAPitan'!

-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58668 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromStephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
Date2016-06-20 11:14 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk9193$hvs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58665
On 2016-06-20 14:19:56 +0000, Kerry Main said:

> While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it needs to 
> address, you make it sound like all the other platforms do not have 
> major challenges as well.

For not the first time I've had to write this, this is not about right 
now.  This is about three or five years out.  About getting OpenVMS to 
be better competitive with what will be.   This is a never-ending 
process, and it's a process that's only accelerating.    VSI doesn't 
have the ability to push out updates and patches anywhere near as fast 
as other platforms either, because the VSI folks don't yet have the 
staff and the infrastructure in place to do that (yet).  But I digress.

> We both know these other platforms have their share of 
> significantchallenges as well - and these challenges include how to 
> maintaincompatibility while still moving forward with new technology 
> that couldenhance the underlying platform.

We both know "these other platforms" are very successful.   More 
successful than OpenVMS, by more than a few measures; on the job 
postings and questions and the sorts of discussions around here, and 
particularly on the numbers of servers installed.   Ponder why that 
might be, too.   Some of that difference is certainly familiarity and 
availability of staff for "these other platforms", some is marketing, 
and more than a little of it is tools, designs and software that meet 
the needs of the folks using them.   That usage means the folks don't 
have to go build and maintain their own tool chains for common tasks.

Costs are always a factor for "Business types", too.   OpenVMS has no 
competitively-priced low-end or entry level hardware and software 
configurations, and that's not a new gap in the product offerings.   
The x86-64 port will help reduce the hardware costs and likely also 
allow folks to standardize on some of the related software tools.

Again: this is where OpenVMS is competing now, and where it will be 
competing in five or ten years.

The installed base is a massive advantage for VSI and one that many new 
startups and new businesses don't have, but — if the OpenVMS business 
doesn't stabilize and start to grow at least enough to offset ports off 
of OpenVMS and OpenVMS products being deprecated — those too young to 
retire will be porting code elsewhere sooner or later.

Make no mistake, vendors are still deprecating OpenVMS products, too.  
Here's one from this month:
https://techsupport.osisoft.com/Troubleshooting/Alerts/AL00304
https://techsupport.osisoft.com/Troubleshooting/KB/KB01114

> Remember - it's not the technology that Business types like, it’s the 
> ability of that technology (old OR new) to support their business 
> andtheir customers that is important to them.
> And it’s the business that funds the IT groups.

Which right now is Linux and Windows Server, for a great many 
businesses.   Yes, there are problems with those.  There are problems 
with all systems.    Which is also why I keep suggesting folks here try 
new tools and new platforms, too.   Think of this as the hobbyist 
program for yourself, but in reverse.  Learning other stuff, to make 
OpenVMS and your own applications better.    Which is why moving 
OpenVMS substantially forward in features, ease of use and related is 
vital.  That — combined with astute* marketing — is will make "Business 
types" more interested in OpenVMS than they would otherwise be.  
Because right now, most "Business types" are clearly not interested in 
OpenVMS.    In years past, some of the senior IT "Business types" in a 
number of organizations would have used OpenVMS in their careers, too.  
Now?  That's very rare.  That lack of interest and the lack of 
familiarity is due to much more than just the lack of marketing, too.

TL;DR: I'm going to keep pointing at features and tools and good ideas 
from other platforms, and pointing out problems and limits in OpenVMS.

*That's time and thought and consistency of messages and timing and 
preparation; far more than running some adverts (somewhere), starting 
up the hobbyist and educational programs, and related.   Good marketing 
is not easy while inept marketing is hugely expensive, as those 
familiar will tell you.   But I digress.

-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC 

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#58673 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-20 12:30 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk95mr$2b3$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58665
Kerry Main wrote:

> While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it
> needs to address, you make it sound like all the other platforms
> do not have major challenges as well. 
> 
> We both know these other platforms have their share of significant 
> challenges as well - and these challenges include how to maintain 
> compatibility while still moving forward with new technology that could 
> enhance the underlying platform.
> 
> Remember - it's not the technology that Business types like, it’s the
> ability of that technology (old OR new) to support their business and 
> their customers that is important to them. 
> 
> And it’s the business that funds the IT groups.

Perhaps that is the reason there is an Alpha evaluation kit available from VSI?

:-)

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#58693 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

From"Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com>
Date2016-06-20 20:39 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<mailman.12.1466469631.13355.info-vax_rbnsn.com@rbnsn.com>
In reply to#58673
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
> David Froble via Info-vax
> Sent: 20-Jun-16 12:30 PM
> To: info-vax@rbnsn.com
> Cc: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS
> Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
> 
> Kerry Main wrote:
> 
> > While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it
> > needs to address, you make it sound like all the other platforms
> > do not have major challenges as well.
> >
> > We both know these other platforms have their share of significant
> > challenges as well - and these challenges include how to maintain
> > compatibility while still moving forward with new technology that could
> > enhance the underlying platform.
> >
> > Remember - it's not the technology that Business types like, it’s the
> > ability of that technology (old OR new) to support their business and
> > their customers that is important to them.
> >
> > And it’s the business that funds the IT groups.
> 
> Perhaps that is the reason there is an Alpha evaluation kit available from
> VSI?
> 
> :-)
> 

I would be willing to bet big $'s it was not just because folks here in c.o.v.
or hobbyists were asking for it.

:-)

Regards,

Kerry Main
Kerry dot main at starkgaming dot com





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#58694 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-20 22:10 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nka7m9$lkk$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58693
Kerry Main wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Info-vax [mailto:info-vax-bounces@rbnsn.com] On Behalf Of
>> David Froble via Info-vax
>> Sent: 20-Jun-16 12:30 PM
>> To: info-vax@rbnsn.com
>> Cc: David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Info-vax] RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS
>> Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
>>
>> Kerry Main wrote:
>>
>>> While no one here would state OpenVMS does not have things it
>>> needs to address, you make it sound like all the other platforms
>>> do not have major challenges as well.
>>>
>>> We both know these other platforms have their share of significant
>>> challenges as well - and these challenges include how to maintain
>>> compatibility while still moving forward with new technology that could
>>> enhance the underlying platform.
>>>
>>> Remember - it's not the technology that Business types like, it’s the
>>> ability of that technology (old OR new) to support their business and
>>> their customers that is important to them.
>>>
>>> And it’s the business that funds the IT groups.
>> Perhaps that is the reason there is an Alpha evaluation kit available from
>> VSI?
>>
>> :-)
>>
> 
> I would be willing to bet big $'s it was not just because folks here in c.o.v.
> or hobbyists were asking for it.

And you'd probably not lose your big $.  I asked, but I'm not going to go into 
details here, not my story to tell.

The kit still has the old SSL

:-(

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#58695 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

From"Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com>
Date2016-06-20 22:15 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nka80d$mvs$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58694
On 6/20/2016 10:10 PM, David Froble wrote:
  
> The kit still has the old SSL
  
Correct; it's effectively the Alpha version of V8.4-2.  If we do a real Alpha release, it would
be based on V8.4-2L1, whose sole reason for existing is to deliver SSL v102.


-- 

                       -- Rob

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#58698 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-21 00:57 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nkahgf$d1c$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58695
Robert A. Brooks wrote:
> On 6/20/2016 10:10 PM, David Froble wrote:
>  
>> The kit still has the old SSL
>  
> Correct; it's effectively the Alpha version of V8.4-2.  If we do a real 
> Alpha release, it would
> be based on V8.4-2L1, whose sole reason for existing is to deliver SSL 
> v102.
> 
> 

Please ....  sobs Dave ....

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#58696 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromSteven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com>
Date2016-06-20 19:42 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<a6bc5ab9-417e-444f-a7cb-9cf4697bfb0d@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58694
> The kit still has the old SSL 

   There's only _one_ ("the") old SSL?

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#58697 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

From"Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com>
Date2016-06-20 23:06 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nkab04$ukj$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58696
On 6/20/2016 10:42 PM, Steven Schweda wrote:
>> The kit still has the old SSL
>
>    There's only _one_ ("the") old SSL?

HP has rolled out out "SSL1", which is based on SSL v102.

VSI will release (and about to start field testing) VMS V8.4-2L1, which integrates
SSL v102 with the various operating system components and layered products that
use SSL.  I think we're using SSL v102h for 8.4-2L1 (the L stands for "limited" in that
the only relevant change from V8.4-2 is the new SSL).

The point is that if you don't care about SSL support, then there is no reason to upgrade to V8.4-2L1.

-- 

                       -- Rob

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#58672 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-20 12:27 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk95h4$2b3$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58661
Stephen Hoffman wrote:
> On 2016-06-20 03:26:09 +0000, David Froble said:
> 
>> Stephen Hoffman wrote:
>>> On 2016-06-19 02:48:33 +0000, David Froble said:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps you are ready to re-write billions of dollars of existing 
>>>> software?
>>>>
>>>> Why cannot the old and new co-exist?
>>>
>>> That works for a while, but then you still have to update and test 
>>> and maintain the old stuff, and there's a non-trivial and increasing 
>>> cost to that effort.
>>
>> I got to jump all over this.
>>
>> While there are some specifics, such as needing TLS V1.2 because the 
>> older stuff is no longer secure, in general, if software does needed 
>> tasks, it will continue to perform those needed tasks.  Why does one 
>> need to update, or test?  What are the non-trivial and increasing 
>> costs?  Labor might cost more, but that's across the board, not just 
>> for old stuff.  I just don't agree with the above statement.
> 
> Look at OpenVMS, David.

Ok, here is the lack of communication ...

:-)

I was talking about applications, not the OS.

You are correct, VMS has been neglected, it needs attention, and some things 
don't really work so well anymore, the password hash, TCP/IP, SSL, and such.

But my applications do not have such problems.  Perhaps because they have not 
been neglected?  Development is ongoing.  New requirements are met.

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#58678 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromStephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid>
Date2016-06-20 14:52 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk9e0n$4a4$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58672
On 2016-06-20 16:27:15 +0000, David Froble said:

> I was talking about applications, not the OS.
> 
> You are correct, VMS has been neglected, it needs attention, and some 
> things don't really work so well anymore, the password hash, TCP/IP, 
> SSL, and such.
> 
> But my applications do not have such problems.  Perhaps because they 
> have not been neglected?  Development is ongoing.  New requirements are 
> met.

With any complex software package, it's usually worth spending some 
time discussing it with some other folks, just to bounce some ideas and 
alternatives around.   More than a few places do this of course, though 
the context ranges from lunch discussions to detailed specs and formal 
design reviews of planned changes.  Tactical.   What gets discussed and 
reviewed somewhat less often is a look at what's already in place, both 
in terms of reducing short- and long-term maintenance costs, and in 
terms of how the current code fits into the longer-term goals for the 
package and the platform.  Strategic.



-- 
Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC 

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#58706 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-21 09:52 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<ep+6jnDGQBmY@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58565
In article <877c262a-6c6e-45f6-ad86-e884ffda2212@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 6:41:48 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
> 
>> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's
>> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in
>> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records.
> 
> Hands up all those who think RMS should die already...

   Them's fight'n words.

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#58710 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-21 07:16 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<8a505c92-f8bc-43fd-91d3-d5a790666edb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58706
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 1:53:59 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <877c262a-6c6e-45f6-ad86-e884ffda2212@googlegroups.com>,
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 6:41:48 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> 
>>> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's
>>> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in
>>> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records.
>> 
>> Hands up all those who think RMS should die already...
> 
>    Them's fight'n words.

RMS does too many different things, all tied together:

* I/O buffering, because the underlying ACP/XQP layer only allows reading and writing whole multiples of 512 bytes (how dumb is that?).
* Enforcing a bunch of pointless record formats, kind of tied in with the buffering issue, but really just to prevent you from reading and writing files as streams of bytes.
* Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful, until you consider that something like SQLite offers far more functionality, at a low enough overhead to be included as standard on that Android phone in your pocket.
* Filespec parsing (nothing to do with the “R” in “RMS”!). I remember looking at the microfiche source for this in days gone by, to see notes about bugfix after bugfix in the header comments. Why was this ever written in assembly language? Was it ever rewritten in BLISS?

Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one.

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#58713 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJohn Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com>
Date2016-06-21 07:44 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<8e7266ab-b222-40b5-bf13-31a9d97b5f9b@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58710
RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory.

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#58714 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

From VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG
Date2016-06-21 15:02 +0000
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<00B0AF34.E0E4D138@SendSpamHere.ORG>
In reply to#58713
In article <8e7266ab-b222-40b5-bf13-31a9d97b5f9b@googlegroups.com>, John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> writes:
>RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory.

VERY little C -- only a half dozen!  Yeah!


-- 
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG

I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.

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#58736 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkc34r$iqm$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58713
John Reagan wrote:
> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory.

WHAT !!!

No Basic ???

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#58757 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromSimon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP>
Date2016-06-22 12:10 +0000
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkdv87$5d1$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58736
On 2016-06-21, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> John Reagan wrote:
>> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory.
>
> WHAT !!!
>
> No Basic ???

Sorry David, but Basic is not a system implementation/programming
language. :-)

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

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#58768 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-22 09:53 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<OX1YNTYWyBF8@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58757
In article <nkdv87$5d1$1@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes:
> On 2016-06-21, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>> John Reagan wrote:
>>> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory.
>>
>> WHAT !!!
>>
>> No Basic ???
> 
> Sorry David, but Basic is not a system implementation/programming
> language. :-)

   Neither was FORTRAN IV, but I've seen it done.

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#58777 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2016-06-22 20:25 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<dq1r3d-85l.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#58757
On 2016-06-22, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
> On 2016-06-21, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
>> John Reagan wrote:
>>> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C
>>> in the source directory.
>>
>> WHAT !!!
>>
>> No Basic ???
>
> Sorry David, but Basic is not a system implementation/programming
> language. :-)
>

My memories of RSTS suggest that BASIC got used *everywhere*... :-)

-- 
There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation,
naming, and off-by-one errors.

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