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Groups > comp.os.vms > #58251 > unrolled thread

FREESPADRIFT

Started byhelbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply))
First post2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
Last post2016-06-17 10:39 +0200
Articles 20 on this page of 338 — 25 participants

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Contents

  FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
    Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:17 +0200
      Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:01 +0000
        Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:23 +0000
          Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:36 +0000
            Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-14 09:02 +0000
      Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:22 +0000
        Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 11:45 +0200
    Re: FREESPADRIFT "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-12 16:08 -0400
    Re: FREESPADRIFT brendan welch <w1lpg@uml.edu> - 2016-06-12 17:20 -0400
    Re: FREESPADRIFT koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 09:20 -0400
      Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 18:42 -0700
        Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-16 18:24 +0000
          Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 15:15 -0400
          Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 16:01 -0700
            Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-16 19:56 -0400
              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 17:23 -0700
                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-16 21:16 -0500
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 20:11 -0700
                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 10:26 -0400
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-17 15:28 -0700
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 00:39 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-06-17 22:41 +0000
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 23:14 -0400
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 20:10 -0400
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 10:54 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 02:19 -0700
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 13:51 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:31 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:24 -0400
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 +0000
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 20:02 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-19 01:46 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:56 -0400
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:32 -0400
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:42 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:00 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:12 -0400
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:45 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:29 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:48 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 21:19 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:35 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:26 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:55 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:38 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 14:53 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 16:18 +0000
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-21 18:27 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:40 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:34 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 17:07 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:19 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:36 +0000
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:47 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 16:06 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:33 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:46 -0400
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:16 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:33 -0700
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:01 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:23 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:29 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:42 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:58 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:40 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:03 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:55 +0000
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:36 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:43 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:20 +0000
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:33 +0200
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-28 09:02 -0400
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:48 +0200
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:59 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:06 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 17:05 +0000
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:50 -0400
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:24 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:34 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 22:02 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-24 08:52 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 16:54 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-24 13:41 -0400
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 18:27 +0000
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:40 +0200
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:33 +0000
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:14 +0200
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:50 +0200
                                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:02 +0000
                                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:35 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:26 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:15 +0200
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 09:35 -0400
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:15 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:23 +0000
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:42 +0200
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:56 +0000
                                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:41 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:09 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:41 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:43 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 22:18 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:53 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:17 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:16 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:31 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:22 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:27 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:55 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 22:15 -0400
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-24 10:50 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-24 11:19 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:12 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:17 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:34 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 13:40 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 20:21 +0200
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:28 +0000
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:38 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 21:29 +0000
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 23:40 +0200
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 22:39 +0000
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:32 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 12:15 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 14:54 +0200
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 13:45 +0000
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 15:58 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 14:07 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 16:56 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-07-11 09:34 -0400
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 11:31 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:48 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-11 15:49 -0400
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-12 13:03 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:47 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 11:01 -0400
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 12:48 +0000
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 15:12 +0200
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 15:15 +0000
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 17:56 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 18:01 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:00 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 21:02 +0200
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 19:38 +0000
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:19 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-01 12:58 +0000
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 17:42 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:03 +0000
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-30 15:17 -0400
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 20:02 +0000
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 10:51 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-27 21:09 -0700
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 23:39 -0700
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:54 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:44 -0700
                          Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:47 -0400
                            Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 19:47 -0700
                              Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 07:38 +0200
                                Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 22:46 -0700
                                  Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 11:41 +0200
                                    Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 03:13 -0700
                                      Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:13 -0400
                                        Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 16:55 -0700
                                          Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 10:18 -0400
                                            Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700
                                      Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 17:38 +0200
                                        Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 17:01 -0700
                              Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 08:34 -0400
                                Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-20 07:40 -0500
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:29 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 00:27 -0700
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 09:43 -0400
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:36 -0700
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:27 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:49 +0200
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:03 -0700
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:29 +0200
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 15:51 -0700
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:56 +0200
                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 02:41 -0700
                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 11:54 +0200
                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 03:04 -0700
                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 12:57 +0200
                                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 00:15 -0700
                                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 14:51 +0200
                                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 15:37 -0700
                                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:14 +0200
                                                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 17:38 -0700
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:04 -0700
                                                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:02 +0200
                                                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:09 +0200
                                                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-04 12:30 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 09:45 -0400
                      Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 20:07 +0200
                        RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-18 18:41 +0000
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:48 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 19:56 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 23:04 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 09:04 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:20 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 14:18 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 15:03 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:49 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:46 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:26 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:07 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 06:47 -0700
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:54 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 17:37 +0200
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:47 -0700
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 21:28 +0200
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 13:27 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:19 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-20 14:39 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 11:14 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:30 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 20:39 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 22:10 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 22:15 -0400
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 00:57 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 19:42 -0700
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 23:06 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:27 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 14:52 -0400
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-21 09:52 -0400
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:16 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:44 -0700
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 15:02 +0000
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:10 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-22 09:53 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:25 +0200
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:18 -0400
                                          System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:49 +0000
                                            Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 12:26 -0400
                                              Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:44 +0200
                                              Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-23 12:43 -0500
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:40 -0400
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:29 -0700
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:03 +0000
                                                    Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-27 09:09 -0400
                                                    Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:54 +0000
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 18:59 +0000
                                                Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 17:04 -0400
                                                  Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-24 14:54 -0500
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:41 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:45 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 17:03 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 19:10 -0400
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "-------------------------Michael W. Farrell" <mfarrell001@verizon.net> - 2016-06-23 01:10 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:16 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-22 22:04 -0500
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:52 +0000
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:02 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:16 +0000
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:58 +0200
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 13:05 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:27 +0000
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was   VAXman-  @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-22 12:46 +0000
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:42 +0200
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 10:15 -0400
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 14:11 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:50 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 17:57 -0700
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 08:35 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 15:18 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 09:46 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 16:10 +0200
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:56 -0700
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-25 14:47 -0400
                                                MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-25 19:44 +0000
                                                  Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:16 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-26 10:26 +0200
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:23 -0400
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:30 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:20 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-26 12:43 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:34 -0400
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:10 +0000
                                                          Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-27 00:46 -0400
                                                            Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-28 03:16 +0000
                                                      Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:41 -0700
                                                        Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0000
                                                          Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-27 15:44 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:09 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:23 +0000
                                                  Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:07 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:30 -0400
                                                    Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:30 +0000
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 08:59 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:40 +0200
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:05 -0700
                                  Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 15:00 -0700
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 01:40 +0200
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 00:18 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 10:10 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 01:50 -0700
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 11:03 +0200
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:57 -0400
                                    Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:00 -0400
                                      Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:54 -0700
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-24 21:24 -0400
                                        Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 12:43 +0200
                                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-25 12:52 -0400
                                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 21:37 +0200
                                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:07 -0400
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:47 -0400
                            Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-19 14:40 +0000
                              Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 20:14 -0700
                                Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-20 19:19 +0000
                          Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 21:29 +0200
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:02 -0400
                          Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 13:59 -0700
                            Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 19:12 -0400
                              Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 -0400
                                Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:03 -0400
                                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:35 -0400
                        Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:01 +0200
                    Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-18 12:52 -0500
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:05 -0700
                  Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-07-04 19:11 +0200
            Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 02:57 +0000
            Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 07:24 +0200
              Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 02:28 -0400
                Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 16:56 +0200
                  Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 13:22 -0400
                    Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 20:53 +0200
                      Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 15:22 -0400
              Re: FREESPADRIFT Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200

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#58891 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-24 03:05 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<c0b859a6-a75b-4615-bf59-8d70f0469db7@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58838
On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:00:46 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <be575c72-8d63-44a2-9aeb-c15bb24c7c59@googlegroups.com>, Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>> 
>> Then there’s the sheer complexity of a VMS filespec. Does the idea
>> of exposing disk device names seem so wise nowadays?
> 
>    Yes, it does.  Works just fine. Don't need to hide them like some OS
>    written in the late 1960s.

Hiding them turned out to be a wonderfully perceptive idea.

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#58798 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-22 15:00 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58735
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:04:22 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>> * Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful, until
>> you consider that something like SQLite offers far more functionality, at a
>> low enough overhead to be included as standard on that Android phone in your
>> pocket.
> 
> Yeah, I was using SQLite back in 1978, worked great, ....  wait ....

We’re not living in 1978 any more. These days, the only things worrying about accessing ISAM files are

* file-format drivers for DBMSes, and
* COBOL programs.

Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.

Funny thing about COBOL: it was created as a language supposedly well-suited to business needs. Except nowadays accessing an SQL database is a common business need. Which means you need string handling powerful enough to construct SQL statements and dynamically substitute parameters into them. Which COBOL makes really painful to do.

So those of us who felt that general-purpose languages would be a better fit for business needs than a supposedly “business-oriented” language did get vindicated. Eventually.

*Yes, there is the “NoSQL” movement. I’m not sure what they’re objecting to: is it the limitations of SQL (which I can agree with) or the whole idea of relational databases?

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#58802 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
Date2016-06-23 01:40 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkf7kk$ed1$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58798
Den 2016-06-23 kl. 00:00, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:04:22 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> * Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful,
>>> until you consider that something like SQLite offers far more
>>> functionality, at a low enough overhead to be included as standard
>>> on that Android phone in your pocket.
>>
>> Yeah, I was using SQLite back in 1978, worked great, ....  wait ....
>
> We’re not living in 1978 any more. These days, the only things worrying
> about accessing ISAM files are
>
> * file-format drivers for DBMSes, and * COBOL programs.
>
> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>
> Funny thing about COBOL: it was created as a language supposedly
> well-suited to business needs. Except nowadays accessing an SQL database
> is a common business need.

Cobol is probably the oldest language used for SQL.
Well over 20 years on VMS and earlier on IBM mainframes.

> Which means you need string handling powerful
> enough to construct SQL statements and dynamically substitute parameters
> into them. Which COBOL makes really painful to do.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talkning about. Is this also
true for your other posts where I can't see it just as easy?

You do not need any string handling at all to run SQL databases from Cobol.

Besides, is there any serious environment at all where you build SQL
statements using string manipulation? Of course not! That is a trap
to get into SQL injections just waiting to happen.

You probably haven't done much real database programming...


>
> So those of us who felt that general-purpose languages would be a better
> fit for business needs than a supposedly “business-oriented” language
> did get vindicated. Eventually.

Based on the above rubbish? Right... :-)

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#58821 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-23 00:18 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<de0777df-db82-4749-a4c9-7f36c900d430@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58802
On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 11:40:06 AM UTC+12, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> You do not need any string handling at all to run SQL databases from Cobol.

Really? I’d be curious as to how you’d handle more dynamic query constructions like (Python code):

    condition = \
        (
            list
                ( # free-text fields
                    "%(name)s like %(value)s"
                %
                    {
                        "name" : field[0],
                        "value" :
                            SQLString("%" + EscapeSQLWild(Params.getvalue(field[1])) + "%"),
                    }
                for field in
                    (
                        ... predefined substring-match fields ...
                    )
                if Params.getvalue(field[1]) != ""
            )
        +
            list
                ( # exact-match fields
                    "%(name)s = %(value)s"
                %
                    {
                        "name" : field[0],
                        "value" : SQLString(Params.getvalue(field[1])),
                    }
                for field in
                    (
                        ... predefined exact-match fields ...
                    )
                if Params.getvalue(field[1]) != ""
                )
        +
            list
                ( # date fields
                    "("
                +
                    " or ".join
                        (
                            "%(name)s %(op)s %(value)s"
                        %
                            {
                                "name" : field[0],
                                "op" : op[0],
                                "value" : SQLString(Params.getvalue(field[1])),
                            }
                        for op in
                            (
                                ("<", "lt"),
                                ("=", "eq"),
                                (">", "gt"),
                            )
                        if GetCheckbox("%(name)s[%(op)s]" % {"name" : field[1], "op" : op[1]})
                        )
                +
                    ")"
                for field in
                    (
                        ... date fields ...
                    )
                if any
                    (
                        GetCheckbox("%(name)s[%(op)s]" % {"name" : field[1], "op" : op})
                            for op in ("lt", "eq", "gt")
                    )
                )
        )
    if len(condition) != 0 :
        process results of "select «fields» from «table» where" + " and ".join(condition)
        ...
    #end if

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#58825 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
Date2016-06-23 10:10 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkg5hs$95p$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58821
Den 2016-06-23 kl. 09:18, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 11:40:06 AM UTC+12, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>> You do not need any string handling at all to run SQL databases from Cobol.
>
> Really?

Yes, really. The SQLMOD and embedded SQL is what is used i our
business applications.

For more ad-hoc query and reporting needs (that are web-driven)
we use Paython as the backend mostly becuse it has the web and
OCI parts built-in. And there it is simple to substitue different
SORT clauses depending on user input and so on.

But the core business applications doen't have those wildly
dynamic SQL needs, the operations are quite well defined and
tested. And we do not want the performance overhead with
dynamic SQL, of course. Doing things like the Python code
below does is totaly out of the question in high volume,
high performance code and applications.

And yes, our Cobol applications are easier to support and
manage then if they had been written in C (or whatever).
I find it easier to read and understand a 30 year old
Cobol application then a 30 year old C application.




  I’d be curious as to how you’d handle more dynamic query constructions 
like (Python code):
>
>     condition = \
>         (
>             list
>                 ( # free-text fields
>                     "%(name)s like %(value)s"
>                 %
>                     {
>                         "name" : field[0],
>                         "value" :
>                             SQLString("%" + EscapeSQLWild(Params.getvalue(field[1])) + "%"),
>                     }
>                 for field in
>                     (
>                         ... predefined substring-match fields ...
>                     )
>                 if Params.getvalue(field[1]) != ""
>             )
>         +
>             list
>                 ( # exact-match fields
>                     "%(name)s = %(value)s"
>                 %
>                     {
>                         "name" : field[0],
>                         "value" : SQLString(Params.getvalue(field[1])),
>                     }
>                 for field in
>                     (
>                         ... predefined exact-match fields ...
>                     )
>                 if Params.getvalue(field[1]) != ""
>                 )
>         +
>             list
>                 ( # date fields
>                     "("
>                 +
>                     " or ".join
>                         (
>                             "%(name)s %(op)s %(value)s"
>                         %
>                             {
>                                 "name" : field[0],
>                                 "op" : op[0],
>                                 "value" : SQLString(Params.getvalue(field[1])),
>                             }
>                         for op in
>                             (
>                                 ("<", "lt"),
>                                 ("=", "eq"),
>                                 (">", "gt"),
>                             )
>                         if GetCheckbox("%(name)s[%(op)s]" % {"name" : field[1], "op" : op[1]})
>                         )
>                 +
>                     ")"
>                 for field in
>                     (
>                         ... date fields ...
>                     )
>                 if any
>                     (
>                         GetCheckbox("%(name)s[%(op)s]" % {"name" : field[1], "op" : op})
>                             for op in ("lt", "eq", "gt")
>                     )
>                 )
>         )
>     if len(condition) != 0 :
>         process results of "select «fields» from «table» where" + " and ".join(condition)
>         ...
>     #end if
>

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#58826 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-23 01:50 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<1abc4a43-b3ca-4e5e-ba44-a573d7e5b42e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58825
On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:10:37 PM UTC+12, Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> But the core business applications doen't have those wildly
> dynamic SQL needs, the operations are quite well defined and
> tested. And we do not want the performance overhead with
> dynamic SQL, of course. Doing things like the Python code
> below does is totaly out of the question in high volume,
> high performance code and applications.

You do realize the query only needs to be constructed once each run, and can then return a thousand or a million or a billion records, don’t you?

Here <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Python_Programming/Databases#Looping_on_Field_Breaks> is another example of a pretty traditional data-processing scenario: accumulating statistics on sales by employee.

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#58827 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
Date2016-06-23 11:03 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkg8ks$es3$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58826
Den 2016-06-23 kl. 10:50, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
> On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 8:10:37 PM UTC+12, Jan-Erik Soderholm
> wrote:
>> But the core business applications doen't have those wildly dynamic
>> SQL needs, the operations are quite well defined and tested. And we do
>> not want the performance overhead with dynamic SQL, of course. Doing
>> things like the Python code below does is totaly out of the question
>> in high volume, high performance code and applications.
>
> You do realize the query only needs to be constructed once each run, and
> can then return a thousand or a million or a billion records, don’t
> you?
>

OK. You just makes me more convinced that you do not really know
what you are talkning about.

In a business application case it is usually a question of
changing a single (or maybe a coupl e)record in a database, and
doing it at a more or less high rate.

I also said that in an ad-hoc query and reporting scenario,
Python works quite well.

> Here
> <https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Python_Programming/Databases#Looping_on_Field_Breaks>
> is another example of a pretty traditional data-processing scenario:
> accumulating statistics on sales by employee.
>

Not anything that is done 10s or 100s of time per second.
Maybe once per day, or on-demand when someone wants to see it.


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#58804 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-22 19:57 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkf8ku$vfc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58798
lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:04:22 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote:
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
>>> * Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful, until
>>> you consider that something like SQLite offers far more functionality, at a
>>> low enough overhead to be included as standard on that Android phone in your
>>> pocket.
>> Yeah, I was using SQLite back in 1978, worked great, ....  wait ....
> 
> We’re not living in 1978 any more. These days, the only things worrying about accessing ISAM files are

No, but it's where we, and RMS, and ISAM files, and .... came from.

Perhaps you like burning bridges behind you.  Learn from Carly?

If we forget the past, we're bound to re-live it ...

> * file-format drivers for DBMSes, and
> * COBOL programs.
> 
> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.

Funny, I can't find one SQL statement in the entire Codis application.  A 
constantly in development application running more than a few companies.

> Funny thing about COBOL: it was created as a language supposedly well-suited to business needs. Except nowadays accessing an SQL database is a common business need. Which means you need string handling powerful enough to construct SQL statements and dynamically substitute parameters into them. Which COBOL makes really painful to do.

Not so Basic ....

> So those of us who felt that general-purpose languages would be a better fit for business needs than a supposedly “business-oriented” language did get vindicated. Eventually.

Lots of Cobol still out there.  I'm rather sure that additions to allow building 
SQL statements would be rather trivial.

> *Yes, there is the “NoSQL” movement. I’m not sure what they’re objecting to: is it the limitations of SQL (which I can agree with) or the whole idea of relational databases?

Really not sure what you're trying to say, but every time you post, I lose a bit 
more credibility for your statements ....

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#58839 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromkoehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler)
Date2016-06-23 09:00 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<1aLRpIscSDv8@eisner.encompasserve.org>
In reply to#58798
In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>, lawrencedo99@gmail.com writes:
> 
> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.

   Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.  If SQL is
   involved in an application, or any DBMS, then I am not.

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#58897 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-24 03:54 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<9629ad4a-ba2e-49b9-ba9d-ec9d48c2bdf5@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58839
On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>> 
>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
> 
>    Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.

Certainly the whole *modern* world...

> If SQL is involved in an application, or any DBMS, then I am not.

Most modern DBAs probably don’t even know what “CODASYL” means...

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#58899 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-24 21:24 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkkmhb$r4t$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58897
lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
>> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>>    Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.
> 
> Certainly the whole *modern* world...

Ha!  No ego here, nothing to see, move on ....

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#58904 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
Date2016-06-25 12:43 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkln86$oqo$1@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58897
Den 2016-06-24 kl. 12:54, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
>> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>>>
>>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>>
>> Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.
>
> Certainly the whole *modern* world...
>

Sure, SQL is what runs common business applications today.
But there have never been any questions about that (well,
yes I know that David has some old non-SQL applications
but they are hardly typical).

The questions was that you for some reason thought that SQL
was a problem in anyway for Cobol (or any other language
used in OewnVMS).


>> If SQL is involved in an application, or any DBMS, then I am not.
>
> Most modern DBAs probably don’t even know what “CODASYL” means...
>

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#58917 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-25 12:52 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkmct2$lp8$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58904
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Den 2016-06-24 kl. 12:54, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
>>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>>>>
>>>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>>>
>>> Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.
>>
>> Certainly the whole *modern* world...
>>
> 
> Sure, SQL is what runs common business applications today.
> But there have never been any questions about that (well,
> yes I know that David has some old non-SQL applications
> but they are hardly typical).

To be accurate, David has some NEW non-SQL applications.  Development is an 
ongoing thing.

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#58921 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromJan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com>
Date2016-06-25 21:37 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nkmmi4$kp0$2@news.albasani.net>
In reply to#58917
Den 2016-06-25 kl. 18:52, skrev David Froble:
> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>> Den 2016-06-24 kl. 12:54, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
>>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>>> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.
>>>
>>> Certainly the whole *modern* world...
>>>
>>
>> Sure, SQL is what runs common business applications today.
>> But there have never been any questions about that (well,
>> yes I know that David has some old non-SQL applications
>> but they are hardly typical).
>
> To be accurate, David has some NEW non-SQL applications.  Development is an
> ongoing thing.

Yes, if we narrow down our view to whatever David is doing.
Should we do that? And more specificaly, should *VSI* do that?
I don't thing so. Better to look a bit further down the road.

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#58925 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-26 02:07 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was
Message-ID<nknre9$mc$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58921
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> Den 2016-06-25 kl. 18:52, skrev David Froble:
>> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
>>> Den 2016-06-24 kl. 12:54, skrev lawrencedo99@gmail.com:
>>>> On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:01:41 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote:
>>>>> In article <63640867-9291-407e-a328-04bc6ccb8cac@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Everything else at the application layer now uses SQL*.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe in your life.  But you are not the whole world.
>>>>
>>>> Certainly the whole *modern* world...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, SQL is what runs common business applications today.
>>> But there have never been any questions about that (well,
>>> yes I know that David has some old non-SQL applications
>>> but they are hardly typical).
>>
>> To be accurate, David has some NEW non-SQL applications.  Development 
>> is an
>> ongoing thing.
> 
> Yes, if we narrow down our view to whatever David is doing.
> Should we do that?

 From David's perspective, that's all that matters ....

Don't you think that it's not so good to think your way is the only way?  Oppps, 
didn't I just do that?

:-)

Actually, no, I didn't.  I'm just saying there can be more than one way ...

> And more specificaly, should *VSI* do that?
> I don't thing so. Better to look a bit further down the road.

I got no problem with looking ahead, but let's just not be into burning bridges 
behind ourselves ....

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#58568 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromDavid Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com>
Date2016-06-18 22:47 -0400
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk5136$ike$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58549
Simon Clubley wrote:
> On 2016-06-18, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>> On 2016-06-18, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Do you count that metadata in the file size, or not? Arguably no, but
>>> it's inherently part of the file on OpenVMS and not at all easy to
>>> exclude — whether VFC or the indexed file structures or otherwise.
>> Tricky.  If you are looking at the output of TYPE, then the record
>> attributes (e.g. Record attributes Carriage return carriage control)
>> make a difference to the output.
>>
> 
> IMHO, it depends on the context. If you are doing block level reads,
> then you count the size of the on-disk metadata in the file size.
> 
> If you are doing record level reads, then you do not include the
> metadata IMHO but you _do_ add in any additional terminator bytes to
> the length (which might not actually be stored on disk).
> 
> You need the former if you are doing an image copy. You need the latter
> if you want to tell a webserver at which point it should resume the
> download.

Hmmm ...  Never considered that.  Then again, for most HW, you're probably going 
to read and write whole blocks anyway.  If I was solving the problem, which I'm 
not, I do think that I'd re-start on block boundaries.

> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's
> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in
> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records.

I'm still thinking about that one.  Perhaps I'm blinded by past expectations.

> The problem is that today's protocols are simply not designed to
> handle the case of metadata buried within the file contents
> themselves; the people who design this stuff have probably never
> even encountered that case.

Perhaps we need different designers ???

:-)

> I do wonder how the IBM mainframe people handle this problem.

However they want, and I'm sure they don't care about other environments ..

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#58604 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromSimon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP>
Date2016-06-19 14:40 +0000
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk6at1$6us$1@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58568
On 2016-06-19, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
> Simon Clubley wrote:
>> 
>> IMHO, it depends on the context. If you are doing block level reads,
>> then you count the size of the on-disk metadata in the file size.
>> 
>> If you are doing record level reads, then you do not include the
>> metadata IMHO but you _do_ add in any additional terminator bytes to
>> the length (which might not actually be stored on disk).
>> 
>> You need the former if you are doing an image copy. You need the latter
>> if you want to tell a webserver at which point it should resume the
>> download.
>
> Hmmm ...  Never considered that.  Then again, for most HW, you're probably going 
> to read and write whole blocks anyway.  If I was solving the problem, which I'm 
> not, I do think that I'd re-start on block boundaries.
>

You've missed the point David. HTTP restart mechanisms only know about
what byte offset to start resending the server based copy of the file 
from; they know nothing about the client.

On Windows and Unix, the client byte offset is the same as the server
byte offset so the client just asks for the size of the partial file
as it currently exists on the client and sends that.

On VMS, if that byte stream has been converted to variable length records
during the download, then the client needs to read the _whole_ of the
partial file to determine how much actual file data there is in the
partial file and it needs to add back in the size of any record
terminators which were not written to disk.

Only after you have done all that, can you tell the server which file
position it needs to start resending the file from.

>> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's
>> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in
>> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records.
>
> I'm still thinking about that one.  Perhaps I'm blinded by past expectations.
>

There are some specialist uses I can think of but I don't see any
advantage for normal sequential files such as program source code
and text files to be variable length records instead of stream
records.

One specialist use I can think of is Fortran carriage control. It's
been a very long time since I've written Fortran code, so I don't
know the answer to this question. How is Fortran carriage control
implemented on a stream only filesystem such as on Unix or Windows ?

Are the carriage control characters actually encoded within the file
data itself ?

Can anyone think of any other uses in today's world for variable
length records (and VFC records) for disk files which can't be handled
by a stream record format ?

There's an argument for binary sequential data because the length
bytes are not part of the data stream, and hence cannot be confused
with it. OTOH, the application generally knows the structure of that
data so it can be stored as stream or fixed length records. This last
part is actually _required_ if you are creating a binary sequential
file for interchange with another system (for example an image file).

>> The problem is that today's protocols are simply not designed to
>> handle the case of metadata buried within the file contents
>> themselves; the people who design this stuff have probably never
>> even encountered that case.
>
> Perhaps we need different designers ???
>
>:-)
>

It's a byte stream world out there David, not a record orientated one
and VMS needs to be able to deal with that efficiently.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

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#58639 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

Fromlawrencedo99@gmail.com
Date2016-06-19 20:14 -0700
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<b65c140d-c495-4474-a3c8-285bec298f4e@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#58604
On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:40:36 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
> It's been a very long time since I've written Fortran code, so I don't
> know the answer to this question. How is Fortran carriage control
> implemented on a stream only filesystem such as on Unix or Windows ?

Seems like it no longer exists in current Fortran standards. (See, some legacy technologies know how to adapt to the modern world...)

By the way, VMS had some fun implementing this as well. As I recall, the convention for line termination was supposed to be: line feed before the line, carriage return after. Which meant the screen cursor was left sitting at the start of the line just output.

But to be kind to the user trying to type input, the terminal driver would automatically move down to a new line as soon as the program started a read. Then it would have to remember it had done so, and not move down *another* line on the next output LF...

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#58680 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromSimon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP>
Date2016-06-20 19:19 +0000
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<nk9fko$5cr$2@dont-email.me>
In reply to#58639
On 2016-06-20, lawrencedo99@gmail.com <lawrencedo99@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Monday, June 20, 2016 at 2:40:36 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote:
>> It's been a very long time since I've written Fortran code, so I don't
>> know the answer to this question. How is Fortran carriage control
>> implemented on a stream only filesystem such as on Unix or Windows ?
>
> Seems like it no longer exists in current Fortran standards. (See,
> some legacy technologies know how to adapt to the modern world...)
>

Thanks for the information; that doesn't actually surprise me at all.

Simon.

-- 
Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP
Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world

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#58620 — Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)

FromPaul Sture <nospam@sture.ch>
Date2016-06-19 21:29 +0200
SubjectRe: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT)
Message-ID<1d8j3d-ncg.ln1@news.chingola.ch>
In reply to#58549
On 2016-06-18, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
> On 2016-06-18, Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> wrote:
>> On 2016-06-18, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Do you count that metadata in the file size, or not? Arguably no, but
>>> it's inherently part of the file on OpenVMS and not at all easy to
>>> exclude — whether VFC or the indexed file structures or otherwise.
>>
>> Tricky.  If you are looking at the output of TYPE, then the record
>> attributes (e.g. Record attributes Carriage return carriage control)
>> make a difference to the output.
>>
>
> IMHO, it depends on the context. If you are doing block level reads,
> then you count the size of the on-disk metadata in the file size.
>
> If you are doing record level reads, then you do not include the
> metadata IMHO but you _do_ add in any additional terminator bytes to
> the length (which might not actually be stored on disk).

Yes for things like TYPE and the print symbiont, but typical end-user
applications don't need to interrogate those attributes, and the
output format is probably going to be vastly different from the
input format; I'm thinking of something like transactions headed out
of an ordering system into an accounts system here, with a printout
for audit purposes along the way.

> You need the former if you are doing an image copy. You need the latter
> if you want to tell a webserver at which point it should resume the
> download.

In a pure VMS context, at one time I would have been thinking of RFAs
there...

> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's
> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in
> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records.

Certainly for general text files which are to be presented via a web
interface, but we're quickly back to legacy debt for applications
dealing with transaction files and the like.  Can existing COBOL or
Fortran programs cope with stream format files without modification?

(There's a way to find out, but I'm pressed for time right now)

> The problem is that today's protocols are simply not designed to
> handle the case of metadata buried within the file contents
> themselves; the people who design this stuff have probably never
> even encountered that case.
>
> I do wonder how the IBM mainframe people handle this problem.

Throw up a load of Linux instances? I'm only half joking here; IBM
didn't invest in the ability to do that for fun.

-- 
There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation,
naming, and off-by-one errors.

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