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Groups > comp.os.vms > #58251 > unrolled thread
| Started by | helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000 |
| Last post | 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 338 — 25 participants |
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FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 19:04 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-12 21:17 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:01 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:23 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-12 20:36 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-14 09:02 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-12 20:22 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-13 11:45 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-12 16:08 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT brendan welch <w1lpg@uml.edu> - 2016-06-12 17:20 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-13 09:20 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-14 18:42 -0700
Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-16 18:24 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-16 15:15 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 16:01 -0700
Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-16 19:56 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 17:23 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-16 21:16 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-16 20:11 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 10:26 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-17 15:28 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 00:39 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Michael Moroney <moroney@TheWorld.com> - 2016-06-17 22:41 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 23:14 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-17 20:10 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 10:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 02:19 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 13:51 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:31 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:24 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 20:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Kerry Main <kerry.main@backtothefutureit.com> - 2016-06-19 01:46 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:56 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 11:32 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:42 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:00 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:12 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:45 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:29 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 14:48 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-18 21:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:26 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 22:55 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:38 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 14:53 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 16:18 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-21 18:27 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:34 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 17:07 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:36 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:47 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 16:06 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:33 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:46 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:16 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:33 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:23 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:42 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:58 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:40 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:03 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:55 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:36 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:43 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:20 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:33 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-28 09:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:48 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:59 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:06 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 17:05 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:50 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:24 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:34 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 22:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-24 08:52 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 16:54 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-24 13:41 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-24 18:27 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:33 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:14 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:50 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:02 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:35 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:26 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:15 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 09:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 16:15 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:23 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:42 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 16:56 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 19:41 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:09 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:41 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 14:43 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 22:18 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:53 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:17 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:16 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:31 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:22 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 19:27 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 21:55 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 22:15 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-24 10:50 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) helbig@asclothestro.multivax.de (Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)) - 2016-06-24 11:19 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:12 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 21:17 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 15:08 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 17:34 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-27 13:40 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 20:21 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 20:28 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 22:38 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 21:29 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 23:40 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 22:39 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:32 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 12:15 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 14:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 13:45 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 15:58 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-29 14:07 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 16:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-07-11 09:34 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-07-11 11:31 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:48 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-07-11 15:49 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-12 13:03 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-11 20:47 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 11:01 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 12:48 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 15:12 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 15:15 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 17:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 18:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:00 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 21:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 19:38 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:19 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-07-01 12:58 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 17:42 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 17:03 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-30 15:17 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-30 20:02 +0000
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-29 10:51 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) johnwallace4@yahoo.co.uk - 2016-06-27 21:09 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 23:39 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:44 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 10:47 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 19:47 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 07:38 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 22:46 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 11:41 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 03:13 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:13 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 16:55 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 10:18 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:29 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-20 17:38 +0200
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-20 17:01 -0700
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 08:34 -0400
Re: BACKUP, rsync, Time Machine (was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling...) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-20 07:40 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 00:27 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 09:43 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:36 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:27 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 12:49 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:03 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-27 15:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-27 15:51 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 10:56 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 02:41 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 11:54 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-29 03:04 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-29 12:57 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 00:15 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-30 14:51 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-30 15:37 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-01 14:14 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-02 17:38 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:04 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:02 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-05 15:09 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-07-04 12:30 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 09:45 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-18 20:07 +0200
RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-18 18:41 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 18:50 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:48 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-18 19:56 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 23:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 09:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:20 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 14:18 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 15:03 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-19 15:49 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 11:46 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:26 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:07 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 06:47 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 09:54 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 17:37 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:47 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-20 21:28 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 13:27 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 10:19 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-20 14:39 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 11:14 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:30 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 20:39 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 22:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 22:15 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 00:57 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Steven Schweda <sms.antinode@gmail.com> - 2016-06-20 19:42 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-20 23:06 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-20 12:27 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-20 14:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-21 09:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-21 07:16 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-21 07:44 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-21 15:02 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:10 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-22 09:53 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:25 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:18 -0400
System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:49 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 12:26 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 18:44 +0200
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-23 12:43 -0500
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-23 14:40 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:29 -0700
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 13:03 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-27 09:09 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-27 14:54 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 18:59 +0000
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 17:04 -0400
Re: System implementation languages, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Chris Scheers <chris@applied-synergy.com> - 2016-06-24 14:54 -0500
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:41 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 12:45 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Anderson <paul.anderson@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 17:03 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Robert A. Brooks" <FIRST.LAST@vmssoftware.com> - 2016-06-22 19:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "-------------------------Michael W. Farrell" <mfarrell001@verizon.net> - 2016-06-23 01:10 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 16:16 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was "Craig A. Berry" <craigberry@nospam.mac.com> - 2016-06-22 22:04 -0500
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-23 07:52 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:02 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-23 12:16 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 17:58 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-21 13:05 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-22 12:27 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG - 2016-06-22 12:46 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-22 20:42 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-22 10:15 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 14:11 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:50 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 17:57 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 08:35 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 15:18 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-23 09:46 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was hb <end.of@inter.net> - 2016-06-23 16:10 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:56 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-25 14:47 -0400
MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-25 19:44 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:16 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-26 10:26 +0200
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:23 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:30 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:20 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-26 12:43 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:34 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:10 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-27 00:46 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-28 03:16 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-26 19:41 -0700
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-27 17:39 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-27 15:44 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:09 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 22:23 +0000
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-26 10:07 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 11:30 -0400
Re: MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-26 23:30 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 08:59 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-23 16:40 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:05 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-22 15:00 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 01:40 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 00:18 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 10:10 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-23 01:50 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-23 11:03 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-22 19:57 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) - 2016-06-23 09:00 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-24 03:54 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-24 21:24 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 12:43 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-25 12:52 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-25 21:37 +0200
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-26 02:07 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:47 -0400
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-19 14:40 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-06-19 20:14 -0700
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> - 2016-06-20 19:19 +0000
Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-19 21:29 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 15:02 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) John Reagan <xyzzy1959@gmail.com> - 2016-06-18 13:59 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-18 19:12 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-18 22:57 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2016-06-19 12:03 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-19 23:35 -0400
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> - 2016-06-21 18:01 +0200
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) "John E. Malmberg" <wb8tyw@qsl.net_work> - 2016-06-18 12:52 -0500
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) lawrencedo99@gmail.com - 2016-07-04 15:05 -0700
Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was Re: FREESPADRIFT) Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-07-04 19:11 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-06-17 02:57 +0000
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 07:24 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 02:28 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 16:56 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> - 2016-06-17 13:22 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2016-06-17 20:53 +0200
Re: FREESPADRIFT "Kerry Main" <kemain.nospam@gmail.com> - 2016-06-17 15:22 -0400
Re: FREESPADRIFT Jan-Erik Soderholm <jan-erik.soderholm@telia.com> - 2016-06-17 10:39 +0200
Page 14 of 17 — ← Prev page 1 … 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 Next page →
| From | Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 07:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkg4gj$v5j$3@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58784 |
On 2016-06-22, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: > Simon Clubley wrote: >> On 2016-06-21, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >>> John Reagan wrote: >>>> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory. >>> WHAT !!! >>> >>> No Basic ??? >> >> Sorry David, but Basic is not a system implementation/programming >> language. :-) >> >> Simon. >> > > We ain't talking about "system implementation". Some of the RMS utilities just > might be a good task for Basic. > And the bulk of RMS runs in executive mode as part of the kernel which is not where I would expect to find Basic code but which I would expect to be implemented using a system implementation language. >:-) :-) Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
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| From | koehler@eisner.nospam.decuserve.org (Bob Koehler) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 09:02 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <9KwUQ2g5yBIV@eisner.encompasserve.org> |
| In reply to | #58824 |
In article <nkg4gj$v5j$3@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes: > > And the bulk of RMS runs in executive mode as part of the kernel which > is not where I would expect to find Basic code but which I would expect > to be implemented using a system implementation language. I beleive the conventional terminalogy is that the executive mode code and the kernel mode code are bth part of the executive, but the kernel is the subset of the executive made up of kernel mode code. Where I'd hate to see C, but there it is.
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| From | VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 12:16 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <00B0B0AF.F0EEEF29@SendSpamHere.ORG> |
| In reply to | #58784 |
In article <nkg4gj$v5j$3@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes: >On 2016-06-22, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >> Simon Clubley wrote: >>> On 2016-06-21, David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote: >>>> John Reagan wrote: >>>>> RMS wins the trifecta of languages. You'll find Macro, BLISS, and C in the source directory. >>>> WHAT !!! >>>> >>>> No Basic ??? >>> >>> Sorry David, but Basic is not a system implementation/programming >>> language. :-) >>> >>> Simon. >>> >> >> We ain't talking about "system implementation". Some of the RMS utilities just >> might be a good task for Basic. >> > >And the bulk of RMS runs in executive mode as part of the kernel which >is not where I would expect to find Basic code but which I would expect >to be implemented using a system implementation language. Yup! Lots of Bliss and Macro! -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
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| From | Johnny Billquist <bqt@softjar.se> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 17:58 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkbo6k$8va$1@Iltempo.Update.UU.SE> |
| In reply to | #58710 |
On 2016-06-21 16:16, lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 1:53:59 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <877c262a-6c6e-45f6-ad86-e884ffda2212@googlegroups.com>, >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes: >>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 6:41:48 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote: >>> >>>> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's >>>> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in >>>> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records. >>> >>> Hands up all those who think RMS should die already... >> >> Them's fight'n words. > > RMS does too many different things, all tied together: > > * I/O buffering, because the underlying ACP/XQP layer only allows reading and writing whole multiples of 512 bytes (how dumb is that?). That's no different than any other OS, and happens because the hardware actually only do this. You cannot avoid the hardware. On Unix systems, though, you have the I/O buffering done in the kernel in a way that most people don't realize. But this is what the block vs. character devices are about. Character devices run through OS buffers. > * Enforcing a bunch of pointless record formats, kind of tied in with the buffering issue, but really just to prevent you from reading and writing files as streams of bytes. But a file on a disk is really not a stream of bytes. Where did you get that idea from? > * Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful, until you consider that something like SQLite offers far more functionality, at a low enough overhead to be included as standard on that Android phone in your pocket. Fair point. > * Filespec parsing (nothing to do with the “R” in “RMS”!). I remember looking at the microfiche source for this in days gone by, to see notes about bugfix after bugfix in the header comments. Why was this ever written in assembly language? Was it ever rewritten in BLISS? Huh? The filename parsing in RSX is written in BLISS. How on earth could it be that the VMS version would be written in assembler? That's a surprise to me. Johnny
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 13:05 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkbs5f$n1a$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58710 |
On 2016-06-21 14:16:50 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. Your list missed one: if RMS is ripped out, then large chunks of OpenVMS itself and more than a little third-party and end-user code either gets rewritten. or an RMS analog layer gets written. That latter approach and that latter effort goes nowhere near forward progress, either. There are a lot of RMS system service calls around in VSI and third-party and end-user source code, and a lot of source code with in-built RMS-based assumptions. That application rework and rewrite take decades, and there needs to be a much better alternative in place and available for that level of effort to even be remotely acceptable by users. And anything less than a decade or two for the ensuing application migration — to that overtly and massively better alternative, and that obviously-better won't be even remotely easy to design, build, market and sell — will not be acceptable. There are good alternatives to RMS for many tasks (and there's a massive fodder available here to add and improve what is available), but reworking and redesigning end-user source code at this scale for use new and different APIs is usually considered to be somewhere between an extensive rework, a rewrite or a wholesale platform port, and not something part of an upgrade. More than a few giblets around — even in OpenVMS itself — still have ODS-2 assumptions, and how long as ODS-5 been available? Would I toss specific and problematic and targeted hunks of OpenVMS out? Yes, just as soon as better replacements are available with a migration path, and with a sufficiently long migration window ahead of deprecation. Would I consider tossing RMS and its APIs out the airlock, if starting over with a wholly new NuVMS operating system? Certainly. But nobody here is building or rebuilding NuVMS, and OpenVMS can't toss RMS. Not in any reasonable timeframe. If ever. Not without encouraging folks to migrate completely off of OpenVMS, for that matter — and that's assuming that the hypothetical NuVMS and its new RMS alternative really is much better. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 12:27 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nke08c$abk$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58730 |
On 2016-06-21, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote: > On 2016-06-21 14:16:50 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > >> Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. > > Your list missed one: if RMS is ripped out, then large chunks of > OpenVMS itself and more than a little third-party and end-user code > either gets rewritten. or an RMS analog layer gets written. That > latter approach and that latter effort goes nowhere near forward > progress, either. There are a lot of RMS system service calls around > in VSI and third-party and end-user source code, and a lot of source > code with in-built RMS-based assumptions. > But OTOH, if you wanted to build something which looked like VMS but without maintaining strict VMS compatibility, RMS as it currently stands is something which would be ripped out with a vengeance. You would need something RMS like in a new VMS, but it needs to be a procedural subroutine style API interface, not a control block interface. There's way too much direct exposure of low level details to VMS user applications; that kind of thing needs hiding behind an abstraction layer which does some of the boilerplate stuff for you. With abstracted interfaces, you are also less likely to have portability issues when the underlying hardware architecture changes or the OS is enhanced. Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
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| From | VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 12:46 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <00B0AFEB.0B680FAE@SendSpamHere.ORG> |
| In reply to | #58760 |
In article <nke08c$abk$1@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes: >On 2016-06-21, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote: >> On 2016-06-21 14:16:50 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: >> >>> Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. >> >> Your list missed one: if RMS is ripped out, then large chunks of >> OpenVMS itself and more than a little third-party and end-user code >> either gets rewritten. or an RMS analog layer gets written. That >> latter approach and that latter effort goes nowhere near forward >> progress, either. There are a lot of RMS system service calls around >> in VSI and third-party and end-user source code, and a lot of source >> code with in-built RMS-based assumptions. >> > >But OTOH, if you wanted to build something which looked like VMS but >without maintaining strict VMS compatibility, RMS as it currently >stands is something which would be ripped out with a vengeance. > >You would need something RMS like in a new VMS, but it needs to be a >procedural subroutine style API interface, not a control block interface. >There's way too much direct exposure of low level details to VMS user >applications; that kind of thing needs hiding behind an abstraction >layer which does some of the boilerplate stuff for you. Which is what many of the HL langages do in their file handling statements. An OPEN statement with filename is fairly abstracted from the control block interface of RMS. -- VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)ORG I speak to machines with the voice of humanity.
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| From | Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 20:42 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <0p2r3d-85l.ln1@news.chingola.ch> |
| In reply to | #58762 |
On 2016-06-22, VAXman- @SendSpamHere.ORG <VAXman-@SendSpamHere.ORG> wrote: > In article <nke08c$abk$1@dont-email.me>, Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> writes: >>On 2016-06-21, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote: >>> On 2016-06-21 14:16:50 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: >>> >>>> Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. >>> >>> Your list missed one: if RMS is ripped out, then large chunks of >>> OpenVMS itself and more than a little third-party and end-user code >>> either gets rewritten. or an RMS analog layer gets written. That >>> latter approach and that latter effort goes nowhere near forward >>> progress, either. There are a lot of RMS system service calls around >>> in VSI and third-party and end-user source code, and a lot of source >>> code with in-built RMS-based assumptions. >>> >> >>But OTOH, if you wanted to build something which looked like VMS but >>without maintaining strict VMS compatibility, RMS as it currently >>stands is something which would be ripped out with a vengeance. >> >>You would need something RMS like in a new VMS, but it needs to be a >>procedural subroutine style API interface, not a control block interface. >>There's way too much direct exposure of low level details to VMS user >>applications; that kind of thing needs hiding behind an abstraction >>layer which does some of the boilerplate stuff for you. > > Which is what many of the HL langages do in their file handling statements. > An OPEN statement with filename is fairly abstracted from the control block > interface of RMS. And for features not supported by HL languages, a set of consistent library routine not only simplifies things for the caller but greatly decreases a developer's learning curve when switching from one HLL to another. -- There are two hard things in computer science, and they are cache invalidation, naming, and off-by-one errors.
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 10:15 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nke6ik$2e4$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58760 |
On 2016-06-22 12:27:56 +0000, Simon Clubley said: > On 2016-06-21, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote: >> On 2016-06-21 14:16:50 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: >> >>> Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. >> >> Your list missed one: if RMS is ripped out, then large chunks of >> OpenVMS itself and more than a little third-party and end-user code >> either gets rewritten. or an RMS analog layer gets written. That >> latter approach and that latter effort goes nowhere near forward >> progress, either. There are a lot of RMS system service calls around >> in VSI and third-party and end-user source code, and a lot of source >> code with in-built RMS-based assumptions. > > But OTOH, if you wanted to build something which looked like VMS but > without maintaining strict VMS compatibility, RMS as it currently > stands is something which would be ripped out with a vengeance. From that same message: >> Would I consider tossing RMS and its APIs out the airlock, if starting >> over with a wholly new NuVMS operating system? Certainly. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-21 15:04 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkc33k$iqm$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58710 |
lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 1:53:59 AM UTC+12, Bob Koehler wrote: >> In article <877c262a-6c6e-45f6-ad86-e884ffda2212@googlegroups.com>, >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro writes: >>> On Sunday, June 19, 2016 at 6:41:48 AM UTC+12, Simon Clubley wrote: >>> >>>> Also, IMHO I think the default sequential record type for today's >>>> world should be stream (and hence the terminator is also included in >>>> the file data.) I do not think it should be variable length records. >>> Hands up all those who think RMS should die already... >> Them's fight'n words. > > RMS does too many different things, all tied together: > > * I/O buffering, because the underlying ACP/XQP layer only allows reading and writing whole multiples of 512 bytes (how dumb is that?). You might THINK you're doing something else, but when the data hits the rust, it's in chunks defined by the disk, usually in multiples of 512 bytes. Though, I believe a disk can be formatted with other sizes, never did that. > * Enforcing a bunch of pointless record formats, kind of tied in with the buffering issue, but really just to prevent you from reading and writing files as streams of bytes. Enforcing? Perhaps a bit too strong a claim. Actually, RMS doesn't know much if anything about "records". > * Implementing an elaborate ISAM file format. This might be useful, until you consider that something like SQLite offers far more functionality, at a low enough overhead to be included as standard on that Android phone in your pocket. Yeah, I was using SQLite back in 1978, worked great, .... wait .... > * Filespec parsing (nothing to do with the “R” in “RMS”!). I remember looking at the microfiche source for this in days gone by, to see notes about bugfix after bugfix in the header comments. Why was this ever written in assembly language? Was it ever rewritten in BLISS? > > Of these, none is worth keeping. Except maybe that last one. Something has got to do filespec parsing. Better done once than custom code in every application.
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 14:11 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <be575c72-8d63-44a2-9aeb-c15bb24c7c59@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58735 |
On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:04:22 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> * I/O buffering, because the underlying ACP/XQP layer only allows reading >> and writing whole multiples of 512 bytes (how dumb is that?). > > You might THINK you're doing something else, but when the data hits the rust, > it's in chunks defined by the disk, usually in multiples of 512 bytes. Newer disks have 4kiB physical sector sizes. And then there’s shingle magnetic recording, where writing anything less than a whole track becomes an involved process (remember track buffers on floppy disks?). How well does your 512-byte-multiple restriction fit into this world? It starts to look pretty anachronistic, doesn’t it? > Something has got to do filespec parsing. Better done once than custom code > in every application. Then there’s the sheer complexity of a VMS filespec. Does the idea of exposing disk device names seem so wise nowadays? On POSIX, you have a pathspec with components separated by simple slashes, and disk device names are completely hidden.
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| From | David Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 19:50 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkf87m$tqg$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58790 |
lawrencedo99@gmail.com wrote: > On Wednesday, June 22, 2016 at 7:04:22 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote: >> Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> * I/O buffering, because the underlying ACP/XQP layer only allows reading >>> and writing whole multiples of 512 bytes (how dumb is that?). >> You might THINK you're doing something else, but when the data hits the rust, >> it's in chunks defined by the disk, usually in multiples of 512 bytes. > > Newer disks have 4kiB physical sector sizes. And then there’s shingle magnetic recording, where writing anything less than a whole track becomes an involved process (remember track buffers on floppy disks?). How well does your 512-byte-multiple restriction fit into this world? It starts to look pretty anachronistic, doesn’t it? > >> Something has got to do filespec parsing. Better done once than custom code >> in every application. > > Then there’s the sheer complexity of a VMS filespec. Does the idea of exposing disk device names seem so wise nowadays? On POSIX, you have a pathspec with components separated by simple slashes, and disk device names are completely hidden. Ah, .... actually, I like to be able to manage where I'm going to locate things. If I need to replace a specific disk, for any reason, all I need to do is re-assign the logical names used to ID the disks. YMMV
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-22 17:57 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <4e82d65c-6e30-4faa-a7da-6e8c2b4dc5af@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58803 |
On Thursday, June 23, 2016 at 11:50:15 AM UTC+12, David Froble wrote: > Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> Then there’s the sheer complexity of a VMS filespec. Does the idea of >> exposing disk device names seem so wise nowadays? On POSIX, you have a >> pathspec with components separated by simple slashes, and disk device names >> are completely hidden. > > Ah, .... actually, I like to be able to manage where I'm going to locate > things. Which is an entirely separate issue from how applications access those things.
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 08:35 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkgl2r$mkq$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58803 |
On 2016-06-22 23:50:14 +0000, David Froble said: > Ah, .... actually, I like to be able to manage where I'm going to > locate things. If I need to replace a specific disk, for any reason, > all I need to do is re-assign the logical names used to ID the disks. Moving mount points around is also easy. You can even do that on OpenVMS now, too. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | hb <end.of@inter.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 15:18 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkgnk4$gb2$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58834 |
On 06/23/2016 02:35 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Moving mount points around is also easy. You can even do that on > OpenVMS now, too. I know, there is an API, implemented in the base image. I don't know whether and where it is documented. And there is a tool, "mnt", which is provided with GNV (GNU's Not VMS). As this is "open source", it exhibits the API. Is there a "native" VMS tool, nowadays? Or are you talking about something totally diffferent?
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 09:46 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkgp73$5c2$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58842 |
On 2016-06-23 13:18:41 +0000, hb said: > On 06/23/2016 02:35 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> Moving mount points around is also easy. You can even do that on >> OpenVMS now, too. > > I know, there is an API, implemented in the base image. I don't know > whether and where it is documented. And there is a tool, "mnt", which > is provided with GNV (GNU's Not VMS). As this is "open source", it > exhibits the API. Is there a "native" VMS tool, nowadays? Or are you > talking about something totally diffferent? Here's the OpenVMS mount point documentation, in the main manuals: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_021.html http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_022.html#mount_point How these didn't get to be DCL commands and/or system services, I'm sure there's a backstory. I do not know if VSI might decide to alter the design used here, but then I've publicly pondered (read: ranted) about similar implementations elsewhere in OpenVMS once or twice before, and the effects that these sorts of designs have on future application designs and application compatibility. Once shipped, these designs are much harder to change, and the dependencies inherently tend to multiply. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | hb <end.of@inter.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-23 16:10 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkgql0$lqa$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #58844 |
On 06/23/2016 03:46 PM, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Here's the OpenVMS mount point documentation, in the main manuals: "HP C Run-Time Library Reference Manual for OpenVMS Systems", talking about "Two GNV utilities, mnt and umnt , are provided to set mount points...". Nothing really new, since V7.2-6C2. Anyway, I wouldn't have checked that manual when in need to move "mount points around".
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| From | lawrencedo99@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-24 03:56 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <6fcc1bdd-cff3-414a-9f53-083021c6354d@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #58844 |
On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:46:14 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: > Here's the OpenVMS mount point documentation, in the main manuals: > > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_021.html > http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_022.html#mount_point Any support for “mount --bind”? Hot-pluggable devices?
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| From | Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-25 14:47 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkmjj6$dnp$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58896 |
On 2016-06-24 10:56:25 +0000, lawrencedo99@gmail.com said: > On Friday, June 24, 2016 at 1:46:14 AM UTC+12, Stephen Hoffman wrote: >> Here's the OpenVMS mount point documentation, in the main manuals: >> >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_021.html >> http://h71000.www7.hp.com/doc/83final/5763/5763pro_022.html#mount_point > > Any support for “mount --bind”? Hot-pluggable devices? OpenVMS has not integrated the MOUNT command or the mount system service with mount points or links. OpenVMS lacks a volume manager. OpenVMS support for storage device management and storage device swapping is limited at best. The configuration and related commands are manual, file-based and the associated commands and syntax and configuration required (for configuring USB devices, for instance) tends toward arcane and manual. Then there's that MOUNT — which is useful for other purposes in the I/O system — is currently tied to disk and tape storage, and to specific disk formats. That design and that limit is not a surprise, but more than a little of the underlying flexibility around ACP handling (yes, ACPs are undocumented) was lost to developers here. But I digress. I've mentioned before that operator communications, easier and more effective automation of management, startup and shutdown processing, and other related areas, are ripe for improvements. Just mounting storage volumes — before considering mount points and related — is certainly simple, but it's more work than it should be when dealing with the inevitable error handling and recovery processing, among other details. This all ties back into the limitations around provisioning, app stacking, replicating servers and server migration from OpenVMS to OpenVMS. Coincidentally, I'm creating and documenting a design for a related problem right now Mount points are one of the areas that are under- or un-integrated with the rest of the system. But there's more than a few of those, and more than a few areas where progress is somewhere between warranted and necessary. -- Pure Personal Opinion | HoffmanLabs LLC
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| From | Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-25 19:44 +0000 |
| Subject | MOUNT and filesystems, was: Re: RMS record metadata, was: Re: Re; Spiralog, RMS Journaling (was |
| Message-ID | <nkmmv5$pmr$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #58919 |
On 2016-06-25, Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> wrote: > > OpenVMS has not integrated the MOUNT command or the mount system > service with mount points or links. > The MOUNT command as currently implemented (and the underlying monolithic mass of filesystem code in the kernel) is not exactly VMS's best selling point. > OpenVMS lacks a volume manager. > > OpenVMS support for storage device management and storage device > swapping is limited at best. > OTOH, you can do things with volumes in VMS clusters, especially when things go wrong, that you can't do elsewhere. The terms "volume manager" and "storage device management" cover a wide range of areas. So that I understand you, what _exactly_ are you looking for (with examples if possible) with the last two items ? > The configuration and related commands are manual, file-based and the > associated commands and syntax and configuration required (for > configuring USB devices, for instance) tends toward arcane and manual. > > Then there's that MOUNT — which is useful for other purposes in the I/O > system — is currently tied to disk and tape storage, and to specific > disk formats. That design and that limit is not a surprise, but more > than a little of the underlying flexibility around ACP handling (yes, > ACPs are undocumented) was lost to developers here. But I digress. > IMHO, I agree with you on this one. Based on what general knowledge I know of how it's implemented internally (I've never seen the VMS source code), MOUNT internals are a disaster area if you ever wanted to implement general mount support in VMS for a variety of filesystems in the way that it's possible in Linux (for example). You should be able to write (for example) a FAT32 filesystem driver from public documentation and use a MOUNT command to mount it in the same way as you can with an ODS-2 volume. Simon. -- Simon Clubley, clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP Microsoft: Bringing you 1980s technology to a 21st century world
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