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ifconfig

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  ifconfig faeychild <faeychild@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-09-16 15:37 +1000
    Re: ifconfig Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2024-09-16 05:46 +0000
      Re: ifconfig faeychild <faeychild@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-09-17 07:26 +1000
      Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-16 23:57 +0000
        Re: ifconfig Jeremy Brubaker <jbrubake.362@orionarts.invalid> - 2024-10-04 15:26 +0000
        Re: ifconfig Jeremy Brubaker <jbrubake.362@orionarts.invalid> - 2024-10-04 16:25 +0000
          Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-04 20:01 +0000
            Re: ifconfig Jeremy Brubaker <jbrubake.362@orionarts.invalid> - 2024-10-08 15:18 +0000
              Re: ifconfig faeychild <faeychild@nomail.afraid.org> - 2024-10-10 08:11 +1100
                Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-10-10 00:01 +0000
    Re: ifconfig Marco Moock <mm+usenet-es@dorfdsl.de> - 2024-09-16 20:24 +0200
      Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-17 00:07 +0000
        Re: ifconfig Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-09-23 20:52 -0500
          Re: ifconfig Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-24 08:29 +0100
            Re: ifconfig Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2024-09-24 22:24 -0500
              Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-25 06:45 +0000
              Re: ifconfig Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2024-09-25 09:18 +0100
          Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-24 21:00 +0000
            Re: ifconfig "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2024-09-25 07:22 +0200
    Re: ifconfig Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2024-09-17 00:02 +0000
    Re: ifconfig not@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev) - 2024-09-18 07:46 +1000
    Re: ifconfig Antti Talsta <atalsta@nothingtosee.org> - 2024-09-23 16:46 +0000

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#8482 — ifconfig

Just discovered it's deprecated.
Clearly I haven't used it for a while and have been living under a rock.

for anyone trapped in the time warp it's now -

ip addr show

-- 
faeychild
Running kde on 6.6.43-desktop-1.mga9 kernel.
Mageia release 9 (Official) for x86_64

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#8483

On 2024-09-16, faeychild <faeychild@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

> Just discovered it's deprecated.
> Clearly I haven't used it for a while and have been living under a rock.
>
> for anyone trapped in the time warp it's now -
>
> ip addr show

And if you're swamped by that overly-complex display, try

ip -brief addr

(A tip of the hat to whoever showed us this one recently)

-- 
/~\  Charlie Gibbs                  |  We'll go down in history as the
\ /  <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid>      |  first society that wouldn't save
 X   I'm really at ac.dekanfrus     |  itself because it wasn't cost-
/ \  if you read it the right way.  |  effective.  -- Kurt Vonnegut

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#8485

On 16/9/24 15:46, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> And if you're swamped by that overly-complex display, try
> 
> ip -brief addr

stunningly brief :-)

-- 
faeychild
Running kde on 6.6.43-desktop-1.mga9 kernel.
Mageia release 9 (Official) for x86_64

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#8486

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 05:46:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

> And if you're swamped by that overly-complex display, try
> 
> ip -brief addr

And if you’re trying to parse the output in a script, try adding the
“-json” option for more structured output.

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#8509

On 2024-09-16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 05:46:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> And if you're swamped by that overly-complex display, try
>> 
>> ip -brief addr
>
> And if you’re trying to parse the output in a script, try adding the
> “-json” option for more structured output.

File that one under "Things I Wish I Had Known Years Ago". Thanks very
much for that type.

-- 
() www.asciiribbon.org  | Jeremy Brubaker
/\  - against html mail | јЬruЬаkе@оrіоnаrtѕ.іо / neonrex on IRC

Computers under water due to SYN flooding.

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#8510

On 2024-09-16, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 05:46:29 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
>
>> And if you're swamped by that overly-complex display, try
>> 
>> ip -brief addr
>
> And if you’re trying to parse the output in a script, try adding the
> “-json” option for more structured output.

File that one under "Things I Wish I Had Known Years Ago". Thanks very
much for that tip.

-- 
() www.asciiribbon.org  | Jeremy Brubaker
/\  - against html mail | јЬruЬаkе@оrіоnаrtѕ.іо / neonrex on IRC

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#8511

On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 16:25:56 -0000 (UTC), Jeremy Brubaker wrote:

> File that one under "Things I Wish I Had Known Years Ago".

It’s in the man page <https://manpages.debian.org/8/ip.8.en.html>.

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#8512

On 2024-10-04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 16:25:56 -0000 (UTC), Jeremy Brubaker wrote:
>
>> File that one under "Things I Wish I Had Known Years Ago".
>
> It’s in the man page <https://manpages.debian.org/8/ip.8.en.html>.

Would that I could read **all** the manpages **and** retain everything.  :)

-- 
() www.asciiribbon.org  | Jeremy Brubaker
/\  - against html mail | јЬruЬаkе@оrіоnаrtѕ.іо / neonrex on IRC

Give your very best today.  Heaven knows it's little enough.

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#8513

On 9/10/24 02:18, Jeremy Brubaker wrote:
> On 2024-10-04, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 16:25:56 -0000 (UTC), Jeremy Brubaker wrote:
>>
>>> File that one under "Things I Wish I Had Known Years Ago".
>>
>> It’s in the man page <https://manpages.debian.org/8/ip.8.en.html>.
> 
> Would that I could read **all** the manpages **and** retain everything.  :)
> 


And comprehend. Would that not be a stunning achievement.


-- 
faeychild
Running kde on 6.6.52-desktop-1.mga9 kernel.
Mageia release 9 (Official) for x86_64

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#8514

On Thu, 10 Oct 2024 08:11:26 +1100, faeychild wrote:

> And comprehend. Would that not be a stunning achievement.

It’s a skill you can practise.

Also, search functions are useful.

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#8484

On 16.09.2024 um 15:37 Uhr faeychild wrote:

> Just discovered it's deprecated.
> Clearly I haven't used it for a while and have been living under a
> rock.

It is part for ~20 years.
Some distributions now don't ship ifconfig/route/arp anymore (by
default). Most still provide the packages to install.

For myself, I prefer ip, but maybe because I learned Linux in 2015 and
still ongoing. For me, ip is more reasonable structured.


-- 
kind regards
Marco

Send spam to 1726493861muell@cartoonies.org

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#8488

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 20:24:08 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:

> For myself, I prefer ip, but maybe because I learned Linux in 2015 and
> still ongoing. For me, ip is more reasonable structured.

Here is a blog post on some of the issues why the old-style commands
don’t really work well any more: the way they get info from the kernel
is inefficient, and their traditional function also no longer reflects
the reality of how the network stack works
<https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/ReplacingNetstatNotBad>.

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#8491

On 9/16/24 19:07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> Here is a blog post on some of the issues why the old-style commands 
> don’t really work well any more: the way they get info from the 
> kernel is inefficient, and their traditional function also no longer 
> reflects the reality of how the network stack works

I largely agree with the statement.  I've not yet looked at the URL.

What I don't understand is why nobody has written a wrapper that sites 
in front of `ip` et al. to be called by the more traditional `ifconfig` 
/ `route` et al.

Sure, there are differences.  But Unix like OSs have used `ifconfig` for 
40+ years to configure the network interface.  I see zero reason to not 
provide basic functionality in a backward compatible way.

I embraced `ip` 10-15 years ago.  I've found many things that I can't do 
with `ifconfig` which must be done with `ip`.

Conversely I've found a few things that must be done with `ifconfig` as 
`ip` doesn't support them, mostly with non-IP protocols; IPX / DECnet / etc.



-- 
Grant. . . .

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#8492

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
> On 9/16/24 19:07, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
>> Here is a blog post on some of the issues why the old-style commands
>> don’t really work well any more: the way they get info from the
>> kernel is inefficient, and their traditional function also no longer
>> reflects the reality of how the network stack works
>
> I largely agree with the statement.  I've not yet looked at the URL.
>
> What I don't understand is why nobody has written a wrapper that sites
> in front of `ip` et al. to be called by the more traditional
> `ifconfig` / `route` et al.

I’m not sure how that would differ from the ifconfig that exists now.

> Sure, there are differences.  But Unix like OSs have used `ifconfig`
> for 40+ years to configure the network interface.  I see zero reason
> to not provide basic functionality in a backward compatible way.

Again, how would that be any different from the ifconfig that exists
now?  AFAIK it still works as well as it always did[1], it just can’t
manage some of the more modern stuff.

[1] possibly better; it seems to know about IPv6 now and if memory
    serves, it didn’t use to

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#8494

On 9/24/24 02:29, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
> I’m not sure how that would differ from the ifconfig that exists now.

I read somewhere that the way that ifconfig / route / et al. work 
interfacing with the kernel differently and that these different methods 
are deprecated and will eventually be removed.

If that's true, then creating an ifconfig / route / et al. wrapper 
around iproute2 using the new kernel interfaces would probably be better 
in the long run.

> AFAIK it still works as well as it always did[1], it just can’t
> manage some of the more modern stuff.

It has more to do with the back end in kernel space than it does the 
front end in user space.

> [1] possibly better; it seems to know about IPv6 now and if memory 
> serves, it didn’t use to

I believe that ifconfig / route / et al. learned how to support IPv6 
before iproute2 was a thing.  But maybe I'm mis-remembering.



-- 
Grant. . . .

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#8496

On Tue, 24 Sep 2024 22:24:15 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:

> If that's true, then creating an ifconfig / route / et al. wrapper
> around iproute2 using the new kernel interfaces would probably be better
> in the long run.

The only reason it hasn’t been done is that nobody cares enough to do it.

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#8497

Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> writes:
> On 9/24/24 02:29, Richard Kettlewell wrote:
>> I’m not sure how that would differ from the ifconfig that exists now.
>
> I read somewhere that the way that ifconfig / route / et al. work
> interfacing with the kernel differently

Yes, ifconfig uses ioctl, ip uses a netlink socket.

> and that these different methods are deprecated and will eventually be
> removed.

That hasn’t happened yet and in any case is an implementation detail; if
anyone cared to keep ifconfig &c going after that point, they could be
modified to use netlink instead.

(Linux has a fairly strong tradition against breaking the user-facing
API, but I don’t know if an exception exists in this case.)

>> AFAIK it still works as well as it always did[1], it just can’t
>> manage some of the more modern stuff.
>
> It has more to do with the back end in kernel space than it does the
> front end in user space.

I’ve no idea what this is supposed to mean. If you want it to provide
basic functionality in a backward compatible way it doesn’t matter what
kernel API it uses. At any rate, I think it does do that.

-- 
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#8493

On Mon, 23 Sep 2024 20:52:22 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:

> What I don't understand is why nobody has written a wrapper that sites
> in front of `ip` et al. to be called by the more traditional `ifconfig`
> / `route` et al.

Unnecessary, given you can still install the old commands side by side 
with the new ones, and they still work the same old, albeit inefficient, 
way, to give the same old output.

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#8495

On 2024-09-24 23:00, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2024 20:52:22 -0500, Grant Taylor wrote:
> 
>> What I don't understand is why nobody has written a wrapper that sites
>> in front of `ip` et al. to be called by the more traditional `ifconfig`
>> / `route` et al.
> 
> Unnecessary, given you can still install the old commands side by side
> with the new ones, and they still work the same old, albeit inefficient,
> way, to give the same old output.

I'm not sure of that.

I can install the old commands, but I get a warning that they may stop 
working one day.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.

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#8487

On Mon, 16 Sep 2024 15:37:41 +1000, faeychild wrote:

> Just discovered it's deprecated.
> Clearly I haven't used it for a while and have been living under a rock.
> 
> for anyone trapped in the time warp it's now -
> 
> ip addr show

Some common equivalents (or near-equivalents):

Show all network interfaces--old way:

    ifconfig -a

New way:

    ip address show

Show routing table--old way:

    route -n

New way:

    ip route show

Show ARP cache--old way:

    arp -n

New way:

    ip neigh show

Show listening TCP ports--old way:

    netstat -lt

New way:

    ss -lt

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