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buying a router or using router in kernel

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  buying a router or using router in kernel david nnaemeka <odimegwudavid@yahoo.fr> - 2012-08-25 20:03 +0100
    Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Dan C <youmustbejoking@lan.invalid> - 2012-08-25 23:27 +0000
      Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2012-08-26 06:01 +0000
        Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Peter Köhlmann <peter-koehlmann@t-online.de> - 2012-08-26 09:44 +0200
    Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Moe Trin <ibuprofin@painkiller.example.tld.invalid> - 2012-08-25 19:31 -0500
    Re: buying a router or using router in kernel General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> - 2012-08-27 17:11 +0000
      Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Dave <dave@llondel.org> - 2012-08-27 20:08 +0100
      Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2012-08-27 21:56 +0000
        Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> - 2012-08-29 10:36 -0400
    Re: buying a router or using router in kernel telsar <noone@nowhere.com> - 2012-08-27 16:59 -0500
    Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Simon Quantrill <simon.quantrill@gmail.com.invalid> - 2012-08-29 16:52 +0200
      Re: buying a router or using router in kernel orcus@pwr.wroc.pl - 2012-08-29 16:55 +0000
        Re: buying a router or using router in kernel Simon Quantrill <simon.quantrill@gmail.com.invalid> - 2012-08-29 23:37 +0200

#1621 — buying a router or using router in kernel

Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or 
using the router in the linux kernel?
I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a 
decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is 
simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
tnx

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#1623

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:03:16 +0100, david nnaemeka wrote:

> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
> using the router in the linux kernel?
> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a
> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is
> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
> tnx

You're a fucking moron.  Stick with Windoze, dimwit.


-- 
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
"Bother!" said Pooh, as he reinstalled TLX 3.1.
Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
Thanks, Obama: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/politica/thanks.jpg

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#1625

On Sat, 2012-08-25, Dan C wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:03:16 +0100, david nnaemeka wrote:
>
>> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
>> using the router in the linux kernel?
>> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a
>> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is
>> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
>> tnx
>
> You're a fucking moron.  Stick with Windoze, dimwit.

He's not good at asking the right question, but you are rude.
*plonk*

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#1626

Jorgen Grahn wrote:

> On Sat, 2012-08-25, Dan C wrote:
>> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:03:16 +0100, david nnaemeka wrote:
>>
>>> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
>>> using the router in the linux kernel?
>>> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a
>>> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is
>>> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
>>> tnx
>>
>> You're a fucking moron.  Stick with Windoze, dimwit.
> 
> He's not good at asking the right question,

"Not good" is the understatement of the year

> but you are rude.
> *plonk*
> 

I for my part think that he should not have insulted the real "fucking 
morons" by comparing them to that guy

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#1624

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012, in the Usenet newsgroup comp.os.linux.networking, in
article <MPG.2aa33fe2df2234ff989687@nntp.aioe.org>, david nnaemeka wrote:

>Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands
>or using the router in the linux kernel?

"Better" is such a loaded term.
Which is better, a sports car or an eighteen-wheeler truck?
It depends whether you want to go racing, or haul a hundred
refrigerators across the country.  Neither one is going to be good at
hauling the wife and nine kids to grandma's place for the holidays.

What are you trying to do?

>I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making
>a decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is 
>simpler, cost effective and qualitative?

http://tldp.org/guides.html

Translations of LDP works (languages other than English) can be found
on the "Non-English Linux Info" links page.

     * The Linux Network Administrator's Guide, Second Edition
       version:           1.1
       authors:           Olaf Kirch and Terry Dawson
       last update:       March 2000
       ISBN:              1-56592-400-2
   available formats:
     1. HTML (read online)  2. HTML (tarred and gzipped package, 690k)
     3. PDF (1.5MB)

     * Debian GNU/Linux Network Administrator's Manual

and the howtos from the LDP (http://ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/
would be one source - see also ./docs/HOWTO/translations/fr/text/)

         40490 Jun 22  2000 Home-Network-mini-HOWTO
        203891 Sep 29  2004 NET3-4-HOWTO
         45604 Apr 18  2006 Networking-Overview-HOWTO
         76194 Jan  5  2010 Unix-and-Internet-Fundamentals-HOWTO

and then the Netfilter.org howtos (there is a French directory you
should probably check as well)

http://www.netfilter.org/documentation/HOWTO/

   [TXT] NAT-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 25K
   [TXT] netfilter-double-nat-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 9.3K
   [TXT] netfilter-extensions-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 80K
   [TXT] netfilter-hacking-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 81K
   [TXT] networking-concepts-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 28K
   [TXT] packet-filtering-HOWTO.txt 18-Dec-2010 13:56 51K

"simple / cost / capable"   - that depends on what you're trying to
do.  I certainly wouldn't try to replace the big Cisco routers at work
(7 local subnets, gateways to three other company facilities and the
outside world - about 3000 computers) with a PC with a couple of extra
network cards.  On the other hand, at home, I was using the remains of
a laptop as a firewall and router (9 computers locally).

Briefly, you want to look at how much traffic you're moving, what kind
and how many networks (Ethernet, fiber, wireless, X25), and what OTHER
features like firewalls and policy routing you may want to have.

So - sports car, or 18 wheel truck with 30 ton capacity, or a small bus?

        Old guy

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#1628

On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:03:16 +0100, david nnaemeka wrote:

> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
> using the router in the linux kernel? I really don't know what
> considerations one has to outline for making a decision. Can anyone give
> me some and point to what direction is simpler, cost effective and
> qualitative? tnx

Routers are small and cheap and they do everything that most people need 
to do, why wouldn't you use one? The router offloads that function from 
your computer and it also isolates it from the main OS. The only reason I 
can think of using a software router is if you need enterprise level 
routing capabilities and you can't afford an enterprise router but it's 
hard to imagine a situation where that the case. An organization large 
enough to require an enterprise router can afford one. BTW if you do want 
more sophisticated routing capabilities at a consumer price, there are 
standard consumer routers that can run Linux. You still have a cheap, 
small and low power device handling the function and you have all of the 
capabilities that are built into the Linux kernel. 

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#1629

General Schvantzkoph wrote:
BTW if you do want
> more sophisticated routing capabilities at a consumer price, there are
> standard consumer routers that can run Linux. You still have a cheap,
> small and low power device handling the function and you have all of the
> capabilities that are built into the Linux kernel.

The thing to search for here is OpenWrt or DD-Wrt, then you can pick a 
router from the compatibility list.
-- 
Dave
Too many gadgets, too little time.

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#1630

On 2012-08-27, General Schvantzkoph <schvantzkoph@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 20:03:16 +0100, david nnaemeka wrote:
>
>> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
>> using the router in the linux kernel? I really don't know what
>> considerations one has to outline for making a decision. Can anyone give
>> me some and point to what direction is simpler, cost effective and
>> qualitative? tnx
>
> Routers are small and cheap and they do everything that most people need 
> to do, why wouldn't you use one? The router offloads that function from 
> your computer and it also isolates it from the main OS. The only reason I 
> can think of using a software router is if you need enterprise level 
> routing capabilities and you can't afford an enterprise router but it's 
> hard to imagine a situation where that the case. An organization large 
> enough to require an enterprise router can afford one. BTW if you do want 
> more sophisticated routing capabilities at a consumer price, there are 
> standard consumer routers that can run Linux. You still have a cheap, 
> small and low power device handling the function and you have all of the 
> capabilities that are built into the Linux kernel. 

Organisations don't get large and wealthy by buying routers when 
they've got obsolete desktop computers that no-one will use on a desk.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

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#1632

> Organisations don't get large and wealthy by buying routers when 
> they've got obsolete desktop computers that no-one will use on a desk.

Actually, they do: it's much cheaper to buy an off-the-shelf router than
to pay someone to configure a desktop computer to do the same.
And the electricity bill, noise, and maintenance costs will also
be lower.  It just makes a lot of sense, financially.


        Stefan

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#1631

On 8/25/2012 2:03 PM, david nnaemeka wrote:
> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or 
> using the router in the linux kernel?
> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a 
> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is 
> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
> tnx
> 

Buy a router and learn to use it.  Buy a old cheap PC with multiple
ethernet devices or wireless and learn to use the PC as a router.  Many
of the little routers these days are running Linux anyway, only
embedded.  Learn to use both...interchangeably.

-- 
Steal a little and go to jail, steal a lot and become King.

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#1633

On 2012-08-25 19:03:16 +0000, david nnaemeka said:

> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
> using the router in the linux kernel?
> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a
> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is
> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
> tnx

They are both the samething routing in linux kernel and routing on a 
router is practially the same thing.

Which is better depends on what you mean by better and of course your 
enviroment.

If you in a business then a hardware router is probabaly better as its 
switched on 24 hours and built for the job. Linux will do the job as 
well but you will normally need a PC to run it on this well need to be 
reliable if in a business as like I said before it will be on 24 hours 
a day.

So for reliablilty (hardware) I would always choose hardware router

cheap and chearful for a home user if they dont already have routing on 
their internet modem/router then linux is ok but for most home use 
routing is not normally required!

if you want a fuller answer then I suggest you give a little bit more 
information to you exact requirement

-- 

Simon
----
PGP Key:  D6535CF1
BLOG: http://simon.quantrill.eu

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#1634

On 2012-08-29, Simon Quantrill <simon.quantrill@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 2012-08-25 19:03:16 +0000, david nnaemeka said:
>
>> Which is better, buying a router and learning a new set of commands or
>> using the router in the linux kernel?
>> I really don't know what considerations one has to outline for making a
>> decision. Can anyone give me some and point to what direction is
>> simpler, cost effective and qualitative?
>> tnx
>
> They are both the samething routing in linux kernel and routing on a 
> router is practially the same thing.

It's true only for SOHO routers.

In linux box decision how to handle incoming packet is made by kernel
code. It depends on data provided by various userspace daemons which set 
routing table and firewall rules. At the time software(kernel included)
eats all its resources(heavy trafic, ddos, etc.) kernel don't have
a chance to run "routing code". Often there are problems even in lower
layer - linux cannot handle getting packets from interface when there is
a lot of inbound packets. There was some enhancements in networking 
kernel code last years, but its still fully software based. I think
it will always be in desktop machines since they have no specialized
routing hardware.

In enterprise class routers there is a feature called forwarding plane
and control plane separation. Decision on packet handling is made by
piece of hardware which is autonomous. Control plane is "programming"
forwarding plane but if control plane is busy(lot of new routing
information) or even dead packets are still following already programmed
routes. Same for firewall rules, but only in high-end equipment.

-- 
Regards
orcus

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#1635

On 2012-08-29 16:55:49 +0000, orcus@pwr.wroc.pl said:

> On 2012-08-29, Simon Quantrill <simon.quantrill@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:
>> 
>> They are both the samething routing in linux kernel and routing on a
>> router is practially the same thing.
> 
> It's true only for SOHO routers.

Thanks for sharing I  havent gone into it the depth you have intresting reply

-- 

Simon
----
PGP Key:  D6535CF1
BLOG: http://simon.quantrill.eu

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