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things I don't understand

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  things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-03 22:47 +0100
    Re: things I don't understand scrat <scrat@invalid.com> - 2013-12-03 17:18 -0500
      Re: things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-04 10:45 +0100
    Re: things I don't understand Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-12-04 00:20 +0100
      Re: things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-04 10:43 +0100
        Re: things I don't understand Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-12-04 10:42 +0000
          Re: things I don't understand Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-12-04 10:43 +0000
        Re: things I don't understand gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-12-04 12:59 +0000
        Re: things I don't understand Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2013-12-04 23:15 +0000
          Re: things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-05 18:12 +0100
            Re: things I don't understand unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-12-05 18:54 +0000
              Re: things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-05 21:10 +0100
                Re: things I don't understand scrat <scrat@invalid.com> - 2013-12-05 17:25 -0500
                  Re: things I don't understand François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> - 2013-12-06 09:27 +0100
                    Re: things I don't understand Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2013-12-06 08:46 +0000
                    Re: things I don't understand scrat <scrat@invalid.com> - 2013-12-06 17:10 -0500
                      Re: things I don't understand unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-12-07 00:12 +0000
                        Re: things I don't understand scrat <scrat@invalid.com> - 2013-12-06 20:08 -0500
                          Re: things I don't understand Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2013-12-07 09:19 +0100
        Re: things I don't understand Andrew Gideon <c182driver9@gideon.org> - 2013-12-09 19:55 +0000
    Re: things I don't understand gof@somewhere.invalid (Adam Wysocki) - 2013-12-04 08:00 +0000
    Re: things I don't understand unruh <unruh@invalid.ca> - 2013-12-04 23:18 +0000
    Apache on MacOSX? (was Re: things I don't understand) Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2013-12-05 21:16 +0000
      Re: Apache on MacOSX? (was Re: things I don't understand) Thad Floryan <thad@thadlabs.com> - 2013-12-05 14:24 -0800

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#2597 — things I don't understand

Bonsoir,


I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
setup a web server on a mac.

apache2 is installed and running; if I request the url http://127.0.0.1
it is OK: "It Works!" is displayed.

If I request the same url using localhost instead of 127.0.0.1, the
answer is: firefox cannot connect to this site (something like this). I
checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1
localhost" is the first line.

If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.


I don't know much on mac, but I don't understand why it is possible to
connect to the server through 127.0.0.1 and not with localhost, or IP
address on the local network.


If someone could give me some clues or test to perform, I will be
gratefull to him...


Thanks for attention.

-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2598

On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 22:47:38 +0100, François Patte wrote:

> Bonsoir,
> 
> 
> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
> setup a web server on a mac.
> 
> apache2 is installed and running; if I request the url http://127.0.0.1
> it is OK: "It Works!" is displayed.
> 
> If I request the same url using localhost instead of 127.0.0.1, the
> answer is: firefox cannot connect to this site (something like this). I
> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1 localhost" is
> the first line.
> 
> If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
> network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.
> 
> 
> I don't know much on mac, but I don't understand why it is possible to
> connect to the server through 127.0.0.1 and not with localhost, or IP
> address on the local network.
> 
> 
> If someone could give me some clues or test to perform, I will be
> gratefull to him...
> 
> 
> Thanks for attention.

Fix your DNS then fix you apache config

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#2605

Le 03/12/2013 23:18, scrat a écrit :
> On Tue, 03 Dec 2013 22:47:38 +0100, François Patte wrote:
> 
>> Bonsoir,
>>
>>
>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>> setup a web server on a mac.
>>
>> apache2 is installed and running; if I request the url http://127.0.0.1
>> it is OK: "It Works!" is displayed.
>>
>> If I request the same url using localhost instead of 127.0.0.1, the
>> answer is: firefox cannot connect to this site (something like this). I
>> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1 localhost" is
>> the first line.
>>
>> If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
>> network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.
>>
>>
>> I don't know much on mac, but I don't understand why it is possible to
>> connect to the server through 127.0.0.1 and not with localhost, or IP
>> address on the local network.
>>
>>
>> If someone could give me some clues or test to perform, I will be
>> gratefull to him...
>>
>>
>> Thanks for attention.
> 
> Fix your DNS then fix you apache config
> 

DNS for 127.0.0.1 ? hum!

-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2601

François Patte a écrit :
> 
> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
> setup a web server on a mac.

Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?

> apache2 is installed and running; if I request the url http://127.0.0.1
> it is OK: "It Works!" is displayed.
> 
> If I request the same url using localhost instead of 127.0.0.1, the
> answer is: firefox cannot connect to this site (something like this). I

The *exact* error message is important.
What happens is you run the following in a terminal :

$ telnet localhost http

> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1
> localhost" is the first line.
> 
> If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
> network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.

Maybe the web server listens only on 127.0.0.1. You  can check with netstat.

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#2604

Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
> François Patte a écrit :
>>
>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>> setup a web server on a mac.
> 
> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?

I did not find a "mac.networking group...

macOSX is a freebsd based system...


> 
>> apache2 is installed and running; if I request the url http://127.0.0.1
>> it is OK: "It Works!" is displayed.
>>
>> If I request the same url using localhost instead of 127.0.0.1, the
>> answer is: firefox cannot connect to this site (something like this). I
> 
> The *exact* error message is important.
> What happens is you run the following in a terminal :

La connexion a échoué
(connection failed)

Firefox ne peut établir de connexion avec le serveur à l'adresse
86.xxx.xx.xx.

FF cannot establish a connection with the server at this address...

Le site est peut-être temporairement indisponible ou surchargé.
Réessayez plus tard ;

The site maybe busy, try later...

Si vous n'arrivez à naviguer sur aucun site, vérifiez la connexion au
réseau de votre ordinateur;

If you cannot connect to any site, check your network connection

(network is working)

Si votre ordinateur ou votre réseau est protégé par un pare-feu ou un
proxy, assurez-vous que firefox est autorisé à accéder au Web.

If your computer or network uses a FW or a proxy...

(no proxy, FW deactivated)

> 
> $ telnet localhost http

connection refused

> 
>> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1
>> localhost" is the first line.
>>
>> If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
>> network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.
> 
> Maybe the web server listens only on 127.0.0.1. You  can check with netstat.

netstat is strange on a mac, I used lsof...

Anyway, what is ununderstable is that I can connect to the server using
the local IP (127.0.0.1) and not using localhost... So the server listen
on port 80 but it does not recognize the name localhost... in spite of
/etc/hosts

I did not change the default apache2 config files (which are the same as
on linux).

Thanks


-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2606

François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> writes:
> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
>> François Patte a écrit :

> La connexion a échoué
> (connection failed)
>
> Firefox ne peut établir de connexion avec le serveur à l'adresse
> 86.xxx.xx.xx.
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^

That’s not a loopback address.  You need to figure out why your web
browser is trying to connect to that address.

>> $ telnet localhost http
> connection refused

What is the complete output?

>>> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1
>>> localhost" is the first line.

What is the complete contents of /etc/hosts?

>>> If I request http://192.168.1.12 (IP given by the livebox on the private
>>> network), it is also impossible to connect to the http server.
>> 
>> Maybe the web server listens only on 127.0.0.1. You  can check with netstat.
>
> netstat is strange on a mac, I used lsof...

So what does it say about the web server?

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#2607

Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> writes:
> François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> writes:
>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
>>> François Patte a écrit :

>>>> checked the file /etc/hosts and it is correct: "127.0.0.1
>>>> localhost" is the first line.
>
> What is the complete contents of /etc/hosts?

Oh, one other thing.  What does ‘host localhost’ produce?

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#2608

François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:

>> $ telnet localhost http
> 
> connection refused

So localhost resolves to *something*. Run:

grep localhost /etc/hosts

Is there only one localhost there?

What if you ping localhost? What does it ping? Will it be this 83.... address 
that popped out in Firefox?

AW

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#2610

On Wed, 2013-12-04, François Patte wrote:
> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
>> François Patte a écrit :
>>>
>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>>> setup a web server on a mac.
>> 
>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>
> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>
> macOSX is a freebsd based system...

Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#2613

Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a écrit :
> On Wed, 2013-12-04, François Patte wrote:
>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a écrit :
>>> François Patte a écrit :
>>>>
>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>>>> setup a web server on a mac.
>>>
>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>
>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>
>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
> 
> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?

Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.


-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2614

On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:
> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>
>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>>>>> setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>
>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>
>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>
>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>> 
>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>
> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.

You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
having replied to your post with an attempt to help.


>
>

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#2615

Le 05/12/2013 19:54, unruh a écrit :
> On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> wrote:
>> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a friend to
>>>>>> setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>
>>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>>
>>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>>>
>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>
>> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.
> 
> You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
> you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
> having replied to your post with an attempt to help.

I did not replied using your answer but an answer where there were
absolutely no attempt to help; just words... If people have nothing to
say, why do they say something?

Has this list such a traffic that my small mail had scewed up the bandwidth?

mac system is closed to unix system and I thought that someone with some
knowledge in *networwing* could have some idea about my problem (and you
did); my question was about the strange behaviour of apache which
answers on 127.0.0.1 and not on localhost...

For some people, if you talk about another system than the one they use,
it is like to talk of the devil in a church and they immediately send a
fatwa.


-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2618

On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 21:10:04 +0100, François Patte wrote:

> Le 05/12/2013 19:54, unruh a écrit :
>> On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
>> wrote:
>>> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>>>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a
>>>>>>> friend to setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>>>
>>>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>>>>
>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>
>>> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.
>> 
>> You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
>> you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
>> having replied to your post with an attempt to help.
> 
> I did not replied using your answer but an answer where there were
> absolutely no attempt to help; just words... If people have nothing to
> say, why do they say something?
> 
> Has this list such a traffic that my small mail had scewed up the
> bandwidth?
> 
> mac system is closed to unix system and I thought that someone with some
> knowledge in *networwing* could have some idea about my problem (and you
> did); my question was about the strange behaviour of apache which
> answers on 127.0.0.1 and not on localhost...
> 


I know networking and apache.  Using GNU/Linux since 1995 will do that.

Like I said before fix your apache config and DNS.

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#2619

Le 05/12/2013 23:25, scrat a écrit :
> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 21:10:04 +0100, François Patte wrote:
> 
>> Le 05/12/2013 19:54, unruh a écrit :
>>> On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>>>>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>>>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a
>>>>>>>> friend to setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>>>>>
>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.
>>>
>>> You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
>>> you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
>>> having replied to your post with an attempt to help.
>>
>> I did not replied using your answer but an answer where there were
>> absolutely no attempt to help; just words... If people have nothing to
>> say, why do they say something?
>>
>> Has this list such a traffic that my small mail had scewed up the
>> bandwidth?
>>
>> mac system is closed to unix system and I thought that someone with some
>> knowledge in *networwing* could have some idea about my problem (and you
>> did); my question was about the strange behaviour of apache which
>> answers on 127.0.0.1 and not on localhost...
>>
> 
> 
> I know networking and apache.  Using GNU/Linux since 1995 will do that.
> 
> Like I said before fix your apache config and DNS.

I can fix apache config, but I need some lights on how to fix DNS
resolving: 127.0.0.1 <----> localhost

-- 
François Patte
Université Paris Descartes

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#2620

François Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr> writes:
> I can fix apache config, but I need some lights on how to fix DNS
> resolving: 127.0.0.1 <----> localhost

There’s some unanswered questions still in other branches of this
thread.  You might want to take a look at those.

-- 
http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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#2621

On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:27:51 +0100, François Patte wrote:

> Le 05/12/2013 23:25, scrat a écrit :
>> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 21:10:04 +0100, François Patte wrote:
>> 
>>> Le 05/12/2013 19:54, unruh a écrit :
>>>> On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>>>>>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>>>>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>>>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a
>>>>>>>>> friend to setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.
>>>>
>>>> You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
>>>> you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
>>>> having replied to your post with an attempt to help.
>>>
>>> I did not replied using your answer but an answer where there were
>>> absolutely no attempt to help; just words... If people have nothing to
>>> say, why do they say something?
>>>
>>> Has this list such a traffic that my small mail had scewed up the
>>> bandwidth?
>>>
>>> mac system is closed to unix system and I thought that someone with
>>> some knowledge in *networwing* could have some idea about my problem
>>> (and you did); my question was about the strange behaviour of apache
>>> which answers on 127.0.0.1 and not on localhost...
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> I know networking and apache.  Using GNU/Linux since 1995 will do that.
>> 
>> Like I said before fix your apache config and DNS.
> 
> I can fix apache config, but I need some lights on how to fix DNS
> resolving: 127.0.0.1 <----> localhost

Then DNS is working as it should ( for now ).

Have a look at httpd.conf

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#2622

On 2013-12-06, scrat <scrat@invalid.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Dec 2013 09:27:51 +0100, Fran??ois Patte wrote:
>
>> Le 05/12/2013 23:25, scrat a ??crit :
>>> On Thu, 05 Dec 2013 21:10:04 +0100, Fran??ois Patte wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Le 05/12/2013 19:54, unruh a ??crit :
>>>>> On 2013-12-05, Fran?ois Patte <francois.patte@mi.parisdescartes.fr>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Le 05/12/2013 00:15, Jorgen Grahn a ?crit :
>>>>>>> On Wed, 2013-12-04, Fran?ois Patte wrote:
>>>>>>>> Le 04/12/2013 00:20, Pascal Hambourg a ?crit :
>>>>>>>>> Fran?ois Patte a ?crit :
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am facing a problem that I don't understand: I try to help a
>>>>>>>>>> friend to setup a web server on a mac.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not find a "mac.networking group...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> macOSX is a freebsd based system...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then why post into a Linux newsgroup ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry to have disturbed your list.... I hope you will recover soon.
>>>>>
>>>>> You ask for help in a group which has minimal knowledge of the system
>>>>> you want help for, and when asked you get snarky? I appologize for
>>>>> having replied to your post with an attempt to help.
>>>>
>>>> I did not replied using your answer but an answer where there were
>>>> absolutely no attempt to help; just words... If people have nothing to
>>>> say, why do they say something?
>>>>
>>>> Has this list such a traffic that my small mail had scewed up the
>>>> bandwidth?
>>>>
>>>> mac system is closed to unix system and I thought that someone with
>>>> some knowledge in *networwing* could have some idea about my problem
>>>> (and you did); my question was about the strange behaviour of apache
>>>> which answers on 127.0.0.1 and not on localhost...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> 
>>> I know networking and apache.  Using GNU/Linux since 1995 will do that.
>>> 
>>> Like I said before fix your apache config and DNS.
>> 
>> I can fix apache config, but I need some lights on how to fix DNS
>> resolving: 127.0.0.1 <----> localhost
>
> Then DNS is working as it should ( for now ).

I think he is saying that he has trouble getting localhost to resolv to
127.0.0.1, not that it is working. I suggested he look in
/etc/nsswitch.conf but he either never read that part of my post or
ignored it. I have no idea if that is what Mac OsX calls it either. 


>
> Have a look at httpd.conf
>
>
>
>
>
>

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#2623

On Sat, 07 Dec 2013 00:12:41 +0000, unruh wrote:

>>> I can fix apache config, but I need some lights on how to fix DNS
>>> resolving: 127.0.0.1 <----> localhost
>>
>> Then DNS is working as it should ( for now ).
> 
> I think he is saying that he has trouble getting localhost to resolv to
> 127.0.0.1, not that it is working. I suggested he look in
> /etc/nsswitch.conf but he either never read that part of my post or
> ignored it. I have no idea if that is what Mac OsX calls it either.
> 

Isn't Mac OsX based on *BSD?


If what you say is indeed correct then his networking seems to be 
seriously broken.

Why would you want apache to resolve to localhost or 127.0.0.1?

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#2624

scrat a écrit :
> 
> Why would you want apache to resolve to localhost or 127.0.0.1?

The OP just wants the local resolver to resolve localhost into
127.0.0.1, which sounds legitimate to me. But as Richard said, too many
questions have been left unanswered by the OP so far.

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#2634

On Wed, 04 Dec 2013 10:43:33 +0100, François Patte wrote:

>> $ telnet localhost http
> 
> connection refused

Any chance it is trying to connect to ::1 instead of 127.0.0.1 when you 
use the name "localhost"?  On my machine, at least telnet will try ::1 
before 127.0.0.1 even though the /etc/hosts file has the IPv4 localhost 
first.

It's Linux, though, so OSX behavior may differ.

	- Andrew

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