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How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

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  How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 00:53 -0800
    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2014-03-08 07:46 -0500
      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 10:56 -0800
      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 10:58 -0800
        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 11:51 -0800
        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2014-03-08 15:25 -0500
        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> - 2014-03-08 21:07 -0500
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> - 2014-03-08 21:18 -0500
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-08 20:49 -0800
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Mark Lloyd <mark@this.is.not.email.invalid> - 2014-03-09 10:50 -0500
        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2014-03-09 02:49 +0000
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-08 20:51 -0800
            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-08 23:56 -0900
              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-09 09:39 -0700
                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-09 11:07 -0800
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-08 23:20 -0900
            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-09 07:40 -0700
              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2014-03-09 21:19 -0400
            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-09 09:21 -0700
              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-09 10:57 -0800
                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-09 16:07 -0700
                  Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-09 17:05 -0800
              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-10 10:40 -0700
                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-10 12:06 -0800
                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-10 20:07 -0700
                  Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-11 02:36 -0800
                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-11 19:30 -0700
                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-11 23:13 -0800
                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-12 21:30 -0700
                          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-13 04:44 -0800
                            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-13 20:20 -0700
                              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-13 20:30 -0800
                                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-13 22:59 -0700
                                  Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender mechanic <mechanic@example.net> - 2014-03-14 11:31 +0000
                                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-14 21:50 -0700
                                  Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-14 04:31 -0800
                                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender mechanic <mechanic@example.net> - 2014-03-14 13:45 +0000
                                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-14 07:26 -0800
                                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender John Hasler <jhasler@newsguy.com> - 2014-03-14 11:07 -0500
                                          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-14 10:23 -0800
                                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-14 22:02 -0700
                                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-14 21:53 -0800
                                          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-15 09:49 -0700
                                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender mechanic <mechanic@example.net> - 2014-03-15 10:45 +0000
                                          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-15 09:57 -0700
                                            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-15 12:28 -0800
                                              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-15 14:02 -0700
                                                Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-15 14:22 -0800
                                                  Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-15 21:55 -0700
                                                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-15 21:25 -0800
                                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-14 21:54 -0700
                                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-14 21:58 -0700
                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-11 19:33 -0700
                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-11 23:36 -0800
                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender ceed <ceed@is.indeed.invalid> - 2014-03-12 17:05 +0000
                        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-12 21:48 -0700
                          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-13 04:46 -0800
                    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Eef Hartman <E.J.M.Hartman@tudelft.nl> - 2014-03-12 19:27 +0000
                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-03-12 13:32 -0800
                      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-13 19:18 -0700
      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 10:59 -0800
      Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 11:01 -0800
        Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2014-03-08 15:36 -0500
          Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-08 19:06 -0800
            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> - 2014-03-08 20:54 -0800
            Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2014-03-09 08:03 -0400
              Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> - 2014-03-09 07:56 -0700
    Re: How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender Big Bad Bob <BigBadBob-at-mrp3-dot-com@testing.local> - 2014-03-08 17:42 -0800

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#2783 — How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point network extender

How to set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point.

I realize most of you home repair and wireless router gurus 
probably already know all of this; but, it took me quite a 
while to figure out (from various sources) how to set up
a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 home broadband router as a wired
access point, so, I post my generic notes here for the 
benefit of whomever might need these details.

How I set up a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 as a wired access point:

Note: The Linksys WRT54Gv2 can NOT be set up as a wireless AP
without flashing the software with DD-WRT or equivalent; so I 
opted for the wired access point which required running a cable
under the house from the main router wall plate to the spare router.

HOME WIRING:
- Connect the primary home broadband router numbered port to the wall plate
- From the primary wall plate, run a cat5 cable to the secondary wall plate
- The wiring order was as follows for both ends of all cables:
  (1) solid brown, (2) striped brown, (3) solid green, (4) striped blue, 
  (5) solid blue, (6) striped green, (7) solid orange, (8) striped orange
- Connect the secondary router numbered port to the secondary wall plate

ROUTER RESET:
- The primary router SSID was FOOBAR
- The spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 firmware was at Firmware Version v1.02.8
- Disconnect all connections on the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router
- Tape shut the Internet WAN port of the spare WRT54Gv2 router
- Connect the power supply to the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router
- Hold the reset button for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
- Remove the power for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
- Power the router back on for 30 seconds (keep holding the reset button)
- Finally, let go of the reset button when the third 30 seconds are up
NOTE: This is often termed the 30:30:30 factory-reset procedure.

ROUTER SETUP:
- Turn off the wireless NIC on the laptop (usually by a hardware switch)
- Connect an Ethernet cat5 cable to the laptop eth0 port
- Connect that cat5 cable to a numbered port on the WRT54Gv2 router
- Set the laptop eth0 IP address to 192.168.1.X (anything higher than 1.1)
  (e.g., on Ubuntu, I used: $ sudo ifconfig eth0 192.168.1.2)
- Make a note of the MAC address of the laptop wlan0 network interface card
  (e.g., $ sudo ifconfig wlan0 | grep HWaddr) ==> 00:A0:00:9B:88:C1
- Log into the WRT54Gv2 using http://192.168.1.1 (blank/admin)
  Make a note of the MAC address of the spare WRT54Gv2 router LAN ports
  (the sticker on the bottom of the spare WRT54Gv2 says 00:16:B6:88:A0:8A)
  (the spare WRT54Gv2 Setup->MAC Address Clone reports 00:16:B6:88:A0:8B)
- Setup->Basic Setup->Internet Connection Type->Automatic Configuration - DHCP
- Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Local IP Address=192.168.1.200
  (where 200 is anything unused on the primary router's network, and also
   outside the primary router DHCP range of 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150)
- Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Subnet Mask=255.255.255.0
- Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->DHCP Server=(o)disable
  (This makes the primary router the only DHCP server, for all connections)
- Wireless->Basic Wireless Settings->(set up the same as the primary router)
  (i.e., SSID = FOOBAR, Security = WPA2-PSK [AES] with the same passphrase)
  (If the primary router is on ch1, then put the secondary on ch6 or ch11)
- Change the spare WRT54Gv2 default administrator name & password as needed.
  Administration->Router Password->Password=snafu (repeat)
  Note: There is no way to set a WRT54Gv2 username (i.e., use a blank username)
- Disconnect the wires, and now the spare WRT54Gv2 is a wired access point

TESTING AP:
- Turn on the wireless switch for the WiFi NIC on your laptop
- Select the spare router SSID of FOOBAR
  Note this is the same as the primary router SSID of FOOBAR
- No need to enter the passphrase if this is the same SSID as the primary router
- Connect to the Internet, as desired!
NOTE: The SSID & security is the same on both routers; so, the only difference
is the signal srength and the channel. Your equipment should roam seamlessly.

DOUBLECHECK SETUP:
- While wirelessly connected to the spare Linksys WRT54Gv2 router ...
- Using any web browser on the laptop, log into http://192.168.1.200
- Enter the previously set blank username and "snafu" administrator password
- Check to ensure you're actually connected to the spare router SSID AP
$ nm-tool
  Reports the primary access point SSID strength of 58 (84:1B:5E:AF:89:A4)
  Reports the secondary access point SSID strength of 100 (00:16:B6:88:A0:8F)
  Reports that I am connected to the (stronger) secondary access point SSID
  Note the asterisk next to the FOOBAR* SSID you're connected to.
  Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different frequencies listed.
  Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different MAC addresses listed.
  Note the two duplicate SSIDs will have different signal strengths listed.

In summary, the procedure above will enable you to wire a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2
router, using default Linksys firmware, as a wired access point. This extends
your wifi range, and allows you to use the same SSID and passphrase for both
routers, so that your equipment can roam seamlessly.

Well, at least it did, for me. :)

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#2784

On 08/03/2014 03:53, Liam O'Connor wrote:
> [...]
> - Connect the primary home broadband router numbered port to the wall plate
> - From the primary wall plate, run a cat5 cable to the secondary wall plate
> - The wiring order was as follows for both ends of all cables:
>   (1) solid brown, (2) striped brown, (3) solid green, (4) striped blue, 
>   (5) solid blue, (6) striped green, (7) solid orange, (8) striped orange

I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
the standards for wiring.  This isn't a huge deal in a home environment
(I mean, it works) ... but it's a nice thing to have when your network
goes on the fritz (and/or for the next person who's in your house).

Most integrated wall-plates (i.e. the ones where the jack is molded into
the plate) and keystones (i.e. the ones where you buy a plate with
1,2,4+ holes, and then jacks that snap in) have the proper color-scheme
to match the standard 568-A/B wiring practices.

> [...]
> - Log into the WRT54Gv2 using http://192.168.1.1 (blank/admin)
>   Make a note of the MAC address of the spare WRT54Gv2 router LAN ports
>   (the sticker on the bottom of the spare WRT54Gv2 says 00:16:B6:88:A0:8A)
>   (the spare WRT54Gv2 Setup->MAC Address Clone reports 00:16:B6:88:A0:8B)

The "MAC Address clone" is actually to clone the WAN port.  It's kind of
a "legacy" thing now -- but back in the day, ISPs would hard-lock a
specific MAC address as the provisioned one ... so if you got a router
(after having a PC directly connected to the ISP's modem), you couldn't
get on anymore.

So clone the MAC of the PC, and it all works again.

> - Setup->Basic Setup->Internet Connection Type->Automatic Configuration - DHCP
> - Setup->Basic Setup->Network Setup->Router IP->Local IP Address=192.168.1.200
>   (where 200 is anything unused on the primary router's network, and also
>    outside the primary router DHCP range of 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.150)

Suggest that you make the "Access Point" router .1.2, and keep a
"standard" for all your devices.

For example, I keep all my network hardware (router, switches, AP) is in
10.1.0.0x, servers (fileshare, streaming media, etc) are in 10.1.0.2x,
end-user devices (PCs phones, whatever) pull from DHCP 10.1.0.10x and
10.1.1.10x (for "untrusted" devices -- i.e. friends/family who want
internet).


>  [...]
> In summary, the procedure above will enable you to wire a spare Linksys WRT54Gv2
> router, using default Linksys firmware, as a wired access point. This extends
> your wifi range, and allows you to use the same SSID and passphrase for both
> routers, so that your equipment can roam seamlessly.
> 
> Well, at least it did, for me. :)
> 

Good deal, setup like this should work until the heat death of the
universe - those WRT54G routers are solid (best ones are the v1 blue
bricks -- but the v2 black ones aren't terribad, either).

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#2785

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

> those WRT54G routers are solid (best ones are the v1 blue
> bricks -- but the v2 black ones aren't terribad, either).

Actually, I had made a mistake. I have the anemic (with respect
to RAM) WRT54G V5 (and not the V2). It can't easily be flashed
except with a "mini" DD-WRT, which I didn't do.

So, I'm stuck with it acting as a wired range extender.

BTW, I found a BETTER Ubuntu command than nm-tool.
> $ nm-tool
>   Reports the primary access point SSID strength of 58 (84:1B:5E:AF:89:A4)
>   Reports the secondary access point SSID strength of 100 (00:16:B6:88:A0:8F)
>   Reports that I am connected to the (stronger) secondary access point SSID

On Ubuntu, I just used "iwlist" as follows:
$ sudo iwlist wlan0 scan

This reports the SSID, channel, frequency, signal quality, 
the signal strength in decibels, the MAC address, etc.

The key piece of data is the signal strength, such as 
-45 dBm, which allows me to compare the two duplicate
SSID signal strengths apples to apples.

In my situation, with a state-of-the art router as the 
primary router and the old Linksys WRT54G V5 as the 
secondary router, I get both (duplicate) SSIDs all
over the house, but with vastly different power levels.

For example, at a point roughly midway in distance
between the two routers, the iwlist command reports:

SSID=FOOBAR ch1 2.412GHz Quality= 42/70 Signal= -68dBm
SSID=FOOBAR ch6 2.437GHz Quality= 59/70 Signal= -51dBm

The difference of 17dB is astoundingly huge at 50
times the energy level based on results from here:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db.htm

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#2786

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:

> I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
> the standards for wiring.

Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 

I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

However, I had *thought* I was using the standard 
color coding scheme.

Oh well, too late now! :)

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#2789

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 19:23:02 +0000, T i m wrote:

> From a more practical / long term pov, that if you were using
> 'punch-down' connectors in the wall plates that you used solid
> conductor cables (not stranded 'patch' cable).

Yes. I used the more expensive solid stuff.

It's the pink plenum stuff. Not as pliable as patch cable.
But more pliable than the shielded stuff (which I also have).

I think, next time, I'll try the really thick stiff
shielded stuff, and see if it makes a difference.

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#2790

On 08/03/2014 13:58, Liam O'Connor wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
> 
>> I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
>> the standards for wiring.
> 
> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
> 
> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
> 
> However, I had *thought* I was using the standard 
> color coding scheme.
> 
> Oh well, too late now! :)
> 


Yeah, the color is just there so you know which wire you're talking
about on both ends.  If you had a problem on (for example) wire 7 it can
be hard to diagnose -- "OK wire 7 should be the light brown ...
(re-punch it) ... it's still not working!"

Really it depends on the sticker on the keystone/wallplate -- looking at
what you did, it's T568B, but looking at it from pins 8-1 (i.e. backwards).

Standard left-to-right (1-8) pinouts for T568B wiring is

"Light" Orange (i.e. with the white stripe)
Orange
Light Green
Blue
Light Blue
Green
Light Brown
Brown

T568A swaps the Orange and Green pairs - which is what I tend to use.

So it could be that the jacks you used did pins 8-1 on the back, so that
when you look at it from the "front side" things are in the proper
orientation.

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#2795

Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:

> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
>
>> I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
>> the standards for wiring.
>
> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
>
> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>
> However, I had *thought* I was using the standard 
> color coding scheme.
>
> Oh well, too late now! :)

It isn't sufficient that that the colors match.  The pairs must be on
the correct pins, or the cable will not work.  (The wires in a pair
shield each other.)

Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
stripe of the same color.

Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.

Scott
-- 
Scott Hemphill	hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu
"This isn't flying.  This is falling, with style."  -- Buzz Lightyear

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#2796

Scott Hemphill <hemphill@hemphills.net> writes:

> Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>
>>> I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
>>> the standards for wiring.
>>
>> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
>>
>> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
>> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
>> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>>
>> However, I had *thought* I was using the standard 
>> color coding scheme.
>>
>> Oh well, too late now! :)
>
> It isn't sufficient that that the colors match.  The pairs must be on
> the correct pins, or the cable will not work.  (The wires in a pair
> shield each other.)
>
> Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
> stripe of the same color.

Hmmm.  I guess I should have proofread this sentence after editing it.

Each colored wire forms a pair with the white wire that has a stripe of
the same color.

>
> Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
> Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
> Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
> Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.
>
> Scott

-- 
Scott Hemphill	hemphill@alumni.caltech.edu
"This isn't flying.  This is falling, with style."  -- Buzz Lightyear

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#2799

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 21:07:25 -0500, Scott Hemphill
<hemphill@hemphills.net> Gave us:

>Liam O'Connor <liamoconnor@example.com> writes:
>
>> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 07:46:43 -0500, Dan Purgert wrote:
>>
>>> I might be reading this wrong, but it looks like you're not following
>>> the standards for wiring.
>>
>> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
>>
>> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
>> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
>> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>>
>> However, I had *thought* I was using the standard 
>> color coding scheme.
>>
>> Oh well, too late now! :)
>
>It isn't sufficient that that the colors match.  The pairs must be on
>the correct pins, or the cable will not work.  (The wires in a pair
>shield each other.)
>
>Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
>stripe of the same color.
>
>Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
>Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
>Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
>Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.
>
>Scott


  Yes and the actual pair that gets put on those pins matter as well.
The colors are not there merely for you to get the other end right.

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#2807

On 03/08/2014 08:07 PM, Scott Hemphill wrote:

[snip]

>
> It isn't sufficient that that the colors match.  The pairs must be on
> the correct pins, or the cable will not work.  (The wires in a pair
> shield each other.)

AFAIK, it's not shielding but differential signals. The current is each 
wire is opposite. The wires are twisted so any noise affects both 
equally and they're opposite so the effect is canceled out.

> Each color wire forms a pair with the wire with the white wire with a
> stripe of the same color.
>
> Pins 1 and 2 form a pair.
> Pins 3 and 6 form a pair.
> Pins 4 and 5 form a pair.
> Pins 7 and 8 form a pair.
>
> Scott
>

Normally, only the first two of those pairs are used for ethernet. I 
suppose the odd pairing in the middle is to prevent problems caused by 
someone mistakenly plugging a phone cable into an ethernet jack (the 
shapes will center it).

BTW, to make my own ethernet cables, I put the pairs in 
orange-green-blue-brown order (closest to red-green-blue) and put solid 
colors on the lower numbered pin. That's to make it easy to remember.

-- 
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"Might there have been fewer crimes in the name of Jesus, and more mercy
in the name of Judas Iscariot?" [Thomas Pynchon]

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#2797

On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:
>
> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
>
> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).

Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11

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#2800

On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 02:49:00 +0000 (UTC), Bit Twister
<BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> Gave us:

>On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:
>>
>> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards". 
>>
>> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
>> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
>> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>
>Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
>60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.
>
>For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11


  NOT "up to a point".  The actual wire pair used on each numbered pair
DOES matter.

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#2803

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>On Sun, 9 Mar 2014 02:49:00 +0000 (UTC), Bit Twister
><BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> Gave us:
>
>>On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:
>>>
>>> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".
>>>
>>> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
>>> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
>>> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>>
>>Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
>>60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.
>>
>>For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11
>
>  NOT "up to a point".  The actual wire pair used on each numbered pair
>DOES matter.

The original concept was Pair 1 on pins 4/5, Pair 2 on pins 3/6,
Pair 3 on pins 2/7 and Pair 4 on pins 1/8.  That works fine,
just as stated, "up to a point"!  For voice frequency or low
speed data... but the distance between pins on the plug for
Pairs 3 and 4 is too great for high speed data.

At high bit rates the intention is to keep the Tip and Ring of
each pair closer together than worst case.

Hence pins 1/2 are a pair and pins 7/8 are a pair to maintain
physical proximity on the plug.  The significance is the length
of conductor that is not twisted with it's mate.  Higher
frequency data requires a higher twist rate, but the physical
construction of the plug means there is about 9/16" more with no
twist.  If the conductors are parallel to each other spaced only
by the insulation that short distance matters less than if they
are further separated.  When they are 3/8" apart the effect is
of two independant wires in space, rather than a parallel
transmission line or twisted pair transmission line.

The T568A/B standards use the pairs on pins 1/2 and 3/6.  Up to
a point that is close enough proximity, but it isn't the best
that could be done with that physical socket/plug either.

All that said, for the use described by the OP, it makes no
difference in practice!  I doubt that even Gigabit EtherNet
would blink at different pin spacing of pairs in a typical
environment.  When the connection is to a 6 foot rack with
nothing but jack fields and cables, it counts. Not in a home
environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.
                  
-- 
Floyd L. Davidson                         http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                      floyd@apaflo.com

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#2809

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:56:19 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
Gave us:

> Not in a home
>environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.
>    

  The crosstalk takes place at that connector.  The amount of
non-twisted wire in the termination itself even matters.  There is a
spec for assemblers, and arriving at a properly constructed cat 6
termination is not merely stuffing them in and crimping.

  After the pairs are matched up to the right pins, the length of the
'combed straight' set of wires *must* be trimmed back such that it
barely makes it all the way into the connector.

  Otherwise, it will not perform out to full spec.

  The best connectorization for cat6 includes a SHIELDED termination
shroud and shielded cable.

  But yeah...  it will not halt a connection at someone's home.  It just
will not pass the data at the full rate.  Essentially un-noticed since
that is not where the bottleneck is.

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#2811

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:56:19 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
>Gave us:
>
>> Not in a home
>>environment with only minor potential for crosstalk.
>>
>
>  The crosstalk takes place at that connector.

Crosstalk takes place all along a cable.  "Near end crosstalk"
is certainly the most significant though, but that is due to
higher signal levels on the transmit pairs and lower signal
levels on the receive pairs than at other points along the
cable.

Certainly incorrectly done connectors would add to that.

>The amount of
>non-twisted wire in the termination itself even matters.  There is a
>spec for assemblers, and arriving at a properly constructed cat 6
>termination is not merely stuffing them in and crimping.

There should not be more than 13mm of untwisted wire at the
connector.

>  After the pairs are matched up to the right pins, the length of the
>'combed straight' set of wires *must* be trimmed back such that it
>barely makes it all the way into the connector.
>
>  Otherwise, it will not perform out to full spec.
>
>  The best connectorization for cat6 includes a SHIELDED termination
>shroud and shielded cable.

Shielded Twisted Pair has it's uses, but generally speaking is
not better than UTP.  The length that can be used is reduced,
due to the added capacitance.  STP is used in more severe
environments.

For example, in a telecommunications center where there are
cable racks with literally thousands of pair of wires, long runs
between different rows of racks will uses shielded pairs, while
short runs within the same row of racks will use unshielded
pairs.  That is partialy due to the way grounding systems are
designed, and if for some reason the ground at one end of a row
is provided differently tha the ground at the other end, then
STP would be used instead of UTP.

>  But yeah...  it will not halt a connection at someone's home.  It just
>will not pass the data at the full rate.  Essentially un-noticed since
>that is not where the bottleneck is.

That is not correct.  The point is that the any crosstalk would
be so rare as to be insignificant.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson                         http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                      floyd@apaflo.com

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#2802

Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
>On Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:58:10 -0800, Liam O'Connor wrote:
>>
>> Oh? I am very confused by these wiring "standards".
>>
>> I realize that what *really* matters most is that whatever
>> color is used on one end, is used on the other end (since
>> a wire is a wire, no matter what color it is insulated).
>
>Up to a point. You do not want to split the wire pair. That can cause
>60 hz hum and/or cross talk. Pairs are twisted to reduce external emi.

Perhaps you missed it, but the OP had correct wiring right
from the start.  He clearly got it right in terms of not
splitting a pair, and apparently understood exactly why

The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
difference is exactly right.  It doesn't.

>For anyone interested what the color pairs are for different plugs:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Registered_jack#Powered_version_of_RJ11

Your cite is nearly worthless.  First, RJ11 has nothing at all
to do with this discussion.  But that entire article is also
quite confusing and disorganized.  If one already knows how to
match the correct information with each use, it can be found;
but trying to learn which configuration is appropriate from the
article isn't possible.

Either TIA/EIA-568-A or TIA/EIA-568-B wiring schemes can be
used, and it makes absolutely no difference.

In fact, there is a good argument that for either 10baseT or
faster EtherNet, the color scheme should actualy be:

     Pin    Color
      1     Blue Tip
      2     Blue Ring
      3     Orange Tip
      4     --
      5     --
      6     Orange Ring
      7     --
      8     --

The pins marked '--' can be associated with any wire as they are
unused.  The argument for this use is simple, as the ordering of
the colored pairs is supposed to be Blue, Orange, Green, Brown,
Slate.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson                         http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                      floyd@apaflo.com

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#2805

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

> The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
> difference is exactly right.  It doesn't.

At the risk of inserting myself into a conversation where I have
no business being in due to my almost total lack of the history
involved ... here's what happened ...

0. Having never strung cabling before, I looked it up.
1. I was surprised to see (at least) two main wiring standards.
2. Looking at the difference, I realized the copper didn't care.
3. That is, had the wires been bare, the copper is the same on both.
4. The only difference was the color of the insulation on the wires.
5. Still unsure, I checked all my patch cables lying around.
6. It was hard to see inside connectors, even with a magnifying glass.
7. However, all my patch cables (except xover) were the same scheme.
8. So, that's the color scheme I ended up using! :)

But, that's the full extent of my knowledge.

What confused me is that, had all the wires been bare, they'd
still be in the same arrangement as the colors that I had arranged.

So, since color didn't seem to matter, functionally, I wondered *why*
they had two main standards for me to choose from. 

But, I didn't delve further, so, that's the entire extent of both 
my knowledge, and experience.

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#2814

On 09/03/2014 10:40, Liam O'Connor wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
> 
>> The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
>> difference is exactly right.  It doesn't.
> 
> At the risk of inserting myself into a conversation where I have
> no business being in due to my almost total lack of the history
> involved ... here's what happened ...
> 
> 0. Having never strung cabling before, I looked it up.
> 1. I was surprised to see (at least) two main wiring standards.

Yep, T568A and B.  The only difference is where the green and orange
pairs are.

> 2. Looking at the difference, I realized the copper didn't care.
> 3. That is, had the wires been bare, the copper is the same on both.
> 4. The only difference was the color of the insulation on the wires.

Yes, yes, yes. It's kinda like home electrical wiring ... you *could*
use any color wire you wanted (since "the copper doesn't care"), but the
standard is:

Black = Hot
White = Neutral
Green (or bare) = Ground.

110V 3-Way wiring adds in Red (secondary hot)

220V or higher adds in other "Hot" conductors (I think Yellow, possibly
Red).

Granted, this is a "for safety" standard as compared to the "for sanity"
telecomms standard ... but the idea is the same -- you want to make the
guy checking it out 2 years down the road to not have to guess at WTF
you were up to.

> 5. Still unsure, I checked all my patch cables lying around.
> 6. It was hard to see inside connectors, even with a magnifying glass.
> 7. However, all my patch cables (except xover) were the same scheme.
> 8. So, that's the color scheme I ended up using! :)
> 
> [...]
>
> So, since color didn't seem to matter, functionally, I wondered *why*
> they had two main standards for me to choose from. 

Mainly, it's a "sanity" thing.  Also, if you look at them side by side
(or as close as I can get in text), it might be easier:


568A: ................. 568B:

1. Lt. Orange (TX) .... 1. Lt. Green (TX)
2. Orange (TX) ........ 2. Green (TX)
3. Lt. Green (RX)...... 3. Lt. Orange (RX)
4. Blue ............... 4. Blue
5. Lt. Blue ........... 5. Lt. Blue
6. Green .............. 6. Orange (RX)
7. Lt. Brown .......... 7. Lt. Brown
8. Brown .............. 8. Brown

As you can (hopefully) see, wiring one end of a cable as 568A and the
other 568B will create a crossover cable (that is, the Transmit (TX)
pair on one end is the Receive (RX) pair on the other end).  This isn't
a huge deal since most ports these days are auto-sensing (i.e. they
figure out which pairs the other end is transmitting on, and set that as
RX, then TX as the other pair), but it was necessary in the early days
of Ethernet networking, since most devices were not auto-sensing.

-Dan

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#2808

On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
Gave us:

>The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
>difference is exactly right.  It doesn't.

  It didn't with phones.

  It didn't with cat 5 or older.

  It certainly DOES with cat 5e or newer.

  The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.
Those twist rate differences are used by the port hardware to test the
line integrity during the handshake process.

  So it DOES matter which set of which pair of wires is on which set of
which pair of pins.

  IF you really do want Gigabit per second performance from your network
hooks.

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#2810

DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno <DLU1@DecadentLinuxUser.org> wrote:
>On Sat, 08 Mar 2014 23:20:25 -0900, floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson)
>Gave us:
>
>>The simple fact is, his statement about the color not making any
>>difference is exactly right.  It doesn't.
>
>  It didn't with phones.
>
>  It didn't with cat 5 or older.
>
>  It certainly DOES with cat 5e or newer.

Not at all...

>  The twist per inch rates of each pair DIFFER in the new cabling.
>Those twist rate differences are used by the port hardware to test the
>line integrity during the handshake process.

The twist rate  differs on *any* cable with multiple twisted pairs.

And there is no easy way to detect which pair has a greater or
lesser twist than any other pair.  The twist rate is not used by
the port hardware to test line integrity.

>  So it DOES matter which set of which pair of wires is on which set of
>which pair of pins.
>
>  IF you really do want Gigabit per second performance from your network
>hooks.

It does not matter in any technical way.

The coloring is there for easy identification, and of course as
one would expect there are several different standard ways to
color code wires.  The Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Slate color
series are Bell Standard, developed in the US decades before
EtherNet existed.

-- 
Floyd L. Davidson                         http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)                      floyd@apaflo.com

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