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Groups > comp.os.linux.networking > #5018 > unrolled thread

IPv6 Hardware Firewall

Started byMike Mocha <mocha@mailexcite.com>
First post2022-02-09 08:16 +0000
Last post2022-02-15 09:16 -0800
Articles 20 on this page of 174 — 14 participants

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Contents

  IPv6 Hardware Firewall Mike Mocha <mocha@mailexcite.com> - 2022-02-09 08:16 +0000
    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-09 10:01 +0100
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-09 11:18 +0100
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2022-02-09 15:17 +0000
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-09 16:39 +0100
    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-09 11:16 +0100
    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-09 16:54 +0000
    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-09 17:57 -0700
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-10 08:27 +0100
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 10:59 -0700
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 19:14 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-10 20:39 +0100
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 20:25 +0000
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 14:45 -0700
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 22:24 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 12:49 -0700
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 20:48 +0000
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 14:46 -0700
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-10 10:08 +0100
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 11:01 -0700
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 19:15 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 12:44 -0700
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-10 21:34 +0100
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 14:01 -0700
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-11 14:22 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 11:27 -0700
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-12 10:49 +0100
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Jorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se> - 2022-02-13 19:43 +0000
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-13 21:14 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-14 08:47 +0100
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 11:48 -0700
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-15 20:08 +0100
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 12:19 -0700
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-15 21:09 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 18:09 -0700
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 20:43 +0000
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 14:06 -0700
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-10 21:54 +0000
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-11 14:22 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-11 14:34 +0100
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 11:35 -0700
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-11 19:39 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 12:06 -0700
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-12 10:50 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-12 19:36 -0700
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-13 07:55 +0100
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2022-02-13 03:59 -0600
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-13 14:02 -0800
                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2022-02-13 18:05 -0600
                                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-15 09:13 -0800
                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Bit Twister <BitTwister@mouse-potato.com> - 2022-02-15 11:36 -0600
                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-15 20:32 -0800
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2022-02-15 23:39 -0500
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-13 13:52 +0100
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 11:50 -0700
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-15 20:09 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 11:29 -0700
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-12 10:52 +0100
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-12 19:40 -0700
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-13 13:58 +0100
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 11:53 -0700
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-16 09:28 +0100
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-16 13:04 -0700
                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 21:17 +0100
                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-17 10:59 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-13 14:05 +0100
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 11:56 -0700
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-15 20:11 +0100
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 12:17 -0700
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-16 09:29 +0100
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-16 13:08 -0700
                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-17 11:00 +0100
    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-10 04:08 +0000
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-10 08:30 +0100
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 10:56 -0700
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-10 19:49 +0100
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 12:13 -0700
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-11 04:07 +0000
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall "Vincent Coen" <VBCoen@gmail.com> - 2022-02-10 21:33 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-10 14:48 -0700
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall "Vincent Coen" <VBCoen@gmail.com> - 2022-02-11 01:20 +0000
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-11 09:35 +0100
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 11:45 -0700
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-11 20:03 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-11 12:14 -0700
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-12 00:33 +0000
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-12 09:27 +0100
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-12 10:54 +0100
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-12 11:01 +0100
                OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-12 12:06 -0800
                  Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-12 21:39 +0100
                    Re: OT Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-13 13:27 -0800
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-14 02:12 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-14 02:06 +0000
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-15 09:14 -0800
      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-10 10:10 +0100
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Mike Mocha <mocha@mailexcite.com> - 2022-02-11 07:28 +0000
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-11 09:41 +0100
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-12 00:38 +0000
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-13 11:49 +0100
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-13 13:51 +0100
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-13 14:54 +0100
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-13 15:31 +0100
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-13 14:07 -0800
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 12:25 -0700
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 12:15 -0700
                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-15 21:18 +0100
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-15 18:18 -0700
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 16:24 +0100
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-16 13:16 -0700
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-17 11:03 +0100
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-17 10:20 -0700
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-16 01:53 +0000
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-16 09:37 +0000
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-16 19:50 +0000
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-17 11:41 +0000
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-17 21:22 +0000
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 16:26 +0100
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-16 16:48 +0000
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 19:13 +0100
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-16 19:15 +0000
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-16 20:56 +0100
                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 21:18 +0100
                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-17 11:06 +0100
                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-17 10:27 -0700
                                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-18 08:26 +0100
                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-18 12:05 +0100
                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-18 10:41 -0700
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-18 10:43 -0700
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-18 20:20 +0100
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-18 20:34 +0100
                                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-18 13:46 -0700
                                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-19 10:03 +0100
                                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-19 17:03 -0700
                                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-20 07:39 +0100
                                                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-20 08:52 +0100
                                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-20 14:05 +0100
                                                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-20 22:50 +0000
                                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-20 18:10 -0800
                                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-21 08:16 +0100
                                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-21 08:57 -0700
                                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-21 18:41 +0100
                                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-21 11:31 -0700
                                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-21 21:09 +0100
                                                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-22 16:44 +0100
                                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-20 08:51 +0100
                                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-19 17:11 -0700
                                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-20 07:41 +0100
                                                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-19 17:13 -0700
                                                  Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-20 07:42 +0100
                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-18 20:33 +0100
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-18 20:47 +0100
                                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-19 10:03 +0100
                                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-18 10:35 -0700
                                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-18 20:36 +0100
                                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-18 13:41 -0700
                                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-19 07:43 +0100
                                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-19 10:08 +0100
                                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-19 10:07 +0100
                                              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-19 17:08 -0700
                    Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-16 13:01 +0100
                      Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> - 2022-02-16 19:12 +0100
                        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-17 09:12 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> - 2022-02-17 10:31 -0700
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-18 09:25 +0100
                          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-17 21:21 +0000
                            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2022-02-18 09:25 +0100
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall meff <email@example.com> - 2022-02-11 10:28 +0000
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Dan Purgert <dan@djph.net> - 2022-02-11 10:56 +0000
        Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-12 00:36 +0000
          Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-12 10:56 +0100
            Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid> - 2022-02-14 02:15 +0000
              Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2022-02-14 08:52 +0100
                Re: IPv6 Hardware Firewall jrg <jeff.g.group@att.net> - 2022-02-15 09:16 -0800

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#5037

FromDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date2022-02-10 19:15 +0000
Message-ID<slrnt0ap4h.5ru.dan@djph.net>
In reply to#5033
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Grant Taylor wrote:
> Remember, port forwarding -- which is a thing in IPv6 -- is at it's 
> roots NAT.  There are definitely uses for port forwarding in IPv6.

Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6... 


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-- 
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O|

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#5039

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-10 12:44 -0700
Message-ID<su3pvb$3r2$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5037
On 2/10/22 12:15 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6...

Maybe.  Maybe not.

It depends on the network topology and other layers of the stack, 
including layers 8 (politics) and 9 (money) influence this.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5042

FromMarco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
Date2022-02-10 21:34 +0100
Message-ID<20220210213434.61aa8729@ryz>
In reply to#5039
Am Donnerstag, 10. Februar 2022, um 12:44:56 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> On 2/10/22 12:15 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> > Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6...  
> 
> Maybe.  Maybe not.
> 
> It depends on the network topology and other layers of the stack, 
> including layers 8 (politics) and 9 (money) influence this.

If you like to have more work (NAT is annoying if using DNS names
inside and outside of the NAT net), then you can set up NAT for IPv6.
I like the easy way that means no NAT at all whenever possible.

Network is one of the things that last very long, so I don't like nasty
stuff like NAT there.

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#5045

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-10 14:01 -0700
Message-ID<su3ue0$gm5$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5042
On 2/10/22 1:34 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
> If you like to have more work (NAT is annoying if using DNS names 
> inside and outside of the NAT net), then you can set up NAT for IPv6.

I don't agree that NAT for IPv6 is itself, nor causes, more work.  But 
we've likely had different use cases.

> I like the easy way that means no NAT at all whenever possible.
> 
> Network is one of the things that last very long, so I don't like 
> nasty stuff like NAT there.

Fair enough.  To each their own.

I personally think that NAT can be ~> is a useful tool.  However, the 
tool MUST be used appropriately.  Any and all tools can be abused in 
ways that make life more difficult.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5060

FromMarc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us>
Date2022-02-11 14:22 +0100
Message-ID<su5nu5$47b4$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to#5045
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>On 2/10/22 1:34 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
>> If you like to have more work (NAT is annoying if using DNS names 
>> inside and outside of the NAT net), then you can set up NAT for IPv6.
>
>I don't agree that NAT for IPv6 is itself, nor causes, more work.  But 
>we've likely had different use cases.

I agree with Marco. Probably you have become so intimate with NAT and
the other crutches we need to keep v4 alive that you're dearly missing
them when they're not needed. Such people do exist.

>I personally think that NAT can be ~> is a useful tool. 

For v4, yes. IPv6 was carefully crafted not to need it.

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#5063

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-11 11:27 -0700
Message-ID<su69pt$haj$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5060
On 2/11/22 6:22 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
> Probably you have become so intimate with NAT and the other crutches 
> we need to keep v4 alive that you're dearly missing them when they're 
> not needed.

I don't think so.

> For v4, yes. IPv6 was carefully crafted not to need it.

The thing that IPv6 has over IPv4 is the number of IP addresses.  But 
/utilizing/ those IP addresses brings inherent problems, not the least 
of which is additional routing burden.

Consider the use case of what I call the "Customer Interface Router".

Picture any business wherein each location is locally owned while having 
some loose affiliation with a corporate entity with different owners.  A 
very good example is car dealerships affiliated with a major brand or 
service company.  Wherein each individual location administers their 
network with complete autonomy and corporate administers it's network 
with complete autonomy.  With that large topology in mind, consider the 
potential, nay likely, complications with needing to establish 
bi-directional communications between every single location and the 
corporate entity such that systems at corporate can print to the 
networked printer in the parts department.  The C.I.R. functions as an 
integration between each individual location and corporate.

NAT makes this trivial to do.  Corproate sends traffic to the C.I.R. 
which translates what's necessary for each individual site's local 
network.  Similarly each local site sends traffic to the C.I.R. which 
translates what's necessary to interface with corporate.

Corporate doesn't have to worry about (de)conflicting subnets across 
multiple sites.  Local stores don't need to worry about (de)conflicting 
subnets with coroprate, much less other stores.  Neither corporate nor 
local stores need to propagate route information for each other's networks.

Corporate sends traffic to 192.0.<site #>.<printer #> to print orders in 
the aprts department.  The local manager connects to 198.51.100.<server 
#> to access corproate's vehicle inventory system.

The NAT on the C.I.R. acts as an abstraction alyer allowing each side to 
operate with almost complete autonomy from each other.  I asy almost 
because nominally each side can't have the /same/ subnet.  However, even 
taht can be accomodated by using two C.I.R.s back to back to do double 
translation.

I have written this email using IPv4 addresses because they are simpler 
/ shorter to type (and more mussle memory).  But the exact same concept 
applies to IPv6 as it does to IPv4.

The underlying issue is only compounded if you try to add another entity 
to this scenario, say an external financing company or insurance 
company.  Each additional entity that needs to be integrated adds 
complexity to /routed/ IP addresses at an exponential rate.  Conversely 
NATing C.I.R.s scale linearly.

The Customer Interface Router is only one scenario.  I've run into other 
more exhotic scenarios wherein I needed (as in didn't have a choice) to 
have the same subnet in two different locations that couldn't actually 
sahre the subnet (TL;DR: D.R. environment replicating part of corporate) 
where each saw the other side as different subnets so that the could 
have routed communications.  Linux's net-map IPTables target (prefix 
translation) made this ... possible.  Backups of servers from one side 
could be restored on the other side without readdressing or any other 
changes and they could still communicate with what they needed to 
communicate with.

Aside:  I'd say the IP part was trivial, but the other parts of the 
stack were anything but trivial.

So ... Network Address Translation is a /valuable/ tool to have in the 
tool box and it has far more uses than what most people think of.  Just 
because the most common use is to allow private IPv4 addresses to share 
a single public IPv4 address doesn't mean that it's the /only/ use.

To directly reply to your opening comment:

> Probably you have become so intimate with NAT and the other crutches 
> we need to keep v4 alive that you're dearly missing them when they're 
> not needed.

Nope.  NAT actually *SIGNIFICANTLY* simplifies many of the different 
networks that I've helped administer over the last 20 years.  The C.I.R. 
is one of the simpler examples.  Getting Microsoft's Active Directory 
Domain Controllers to be happy thinking that each is in the same subnet 
when they are not, for DR purposes, is another use case for NAT (prefix 
translation).  These are things that can't easily be done with actual 
routed IP addresses, irrespective of if they are IPv4 or IPv6.

Aside:  The reason for the DR configuration was so that there could be a 
production Active Directory Domain Controller in the D.R. environment 
that was always online and replicating with the production corporate 
network.  The D.R. side /needed/ to have the same IP addresses as the 
production side so that production (member) servers could be restored 
without modification and /just/ /work/.  But the D.R. and production 
networks couldn't be connected as a L2 environment for many reasons. 
Not the least of which is that production had to be online at the same 
time various D.R. tests were happening.  The simplest solution was to 
let each side think that it was the network it was configured for and to 
lie to it about what the other side's network was.  Thus each side would 
send traffic to the other side's fake IP address, NAT would happen in 
the middle to actually estabish the communications.  It worked 
wonderfuly well.

Further Aside:  I challange you to explain to me how routed addresses, 
IPv4 or IPv6, can work as well as NAT does in either the C.I.R. or D.R. 
environment.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5075

FromMarc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us>
Date2022-02-12 10:49 +0100
Message-ID<su7vr5$82it$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to#5063
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>On 2/11/22 6:22 AM, Marc Haber wrote:
>> For v4, yes. IPv6 was carefully crafted not to need it.
>
>The thing that IPv6 has over IPv4 is the number of IP addresses.  But 
>/utilizing/ those IP addresses brings inherent problems, not the least 
>of which is additional routing burden.

This is utter B.S.

Routing Tables with IPv6 are significantly shorter than with IPv4 in
all but the most basic setups. The way greater address space allows
for smart address planning and much better aggregation of routes.

You get rid of all crutches the v4 needs to be still usable. Since all
LAN segments have a /64 prefix, you stop having to worry about prefix
length.

>Picture any business wherein each location is locally owned while having 
>some loose affiliation with a corporate entity with different owners.  A 
>very good example is car dealerships affiliated with a major brand or 
>service company.  Wherein each individual location administers their 
>network with complete autonomy and corporate administers it's network 
>with complete autonomy.  With that large topology in mind, consider the 
>potential, nay likely, complications with needing to establish 
>bi-directional communications between every single location and the 
>corporate entity such that systems at corporate can print to the 
>networked printer in the parts department.  The C.I.R. functions as an 
>integration between each individual location and corporate.

You'd have two address spaces in each LAN segment at the car
dealerships. One prefix for Internet access with local breakout, the
other assigned by the brand. Applications can choose which address to
use, leaving the rest of the burden to the network components.

That's WAY easier than with IPv4.

What makes those things complicated is people clinging to their
IPv4-based procedures.

>NAT makes this trivial to do.

quod erat demonstrandum.

>Corporate doesn't have to worry about (de)conflicting subnets across 
>multiple sites.

They don't, because with IPv6 there are no conflicting subnets.

>The NAT on the C.I.R. acts as an abstraction alyer allowing each side to 
>operate with almost complete autonomy from each other.

That works differently with IPv6. One needs to learn that and let go
of IPv4 mechanisms.

>I have written this email using IPv4 addresses because they are simpler 
>/ shorter to type (and more mussle memory).

How many IP address do you have to type when sending mail?

Btw, this is not mail.

> But the exact same concept 
>applies to IPv6 as it does to IPv4.

No, it isn't. The concepts are very different. And when one rejects
IPv6 because it isn't IPv4 one will have to pay a price.

rest deleted, it's not worth spending time with one who clearly lives
in the past and refuses to adapt.

-- 
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

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#5094

FromJorgen Grahn <grahn+nntp@snipabacken.se>
Date2022-02-13 19:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnt0inq7.1rfm.grahn+nntp@frailea.sa.invalid>
In reply to#5042
On Thu, 2022-02-10, Marco Moock wrote:
> Am Donnerstag, 10. Februar 2022, um 12:44:56 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:
>
>> On 2/10/22 12:15 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> > Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6...  
>> 
>> Maybe.  Maybe not.
>> 
>> It depends on the network topology and other layers of the stack, 
>> including layers 8 (politics) and 9 (money) influence this.
>
> If you like to have more work (NAT is annoying if using DNS names
> inside and outside of the NAT net), then you can set up NAT for IPv6.

NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality.  I'm
mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

> I like the easy way that means no NAT at all whenever possible.
>
> Network is one of the things that last very long, so I don't like nasty
> stuff like NAT there.

/Jorgen

-- 
  // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@  Oo  o.   .     .
\X/     snipabacken.se>   O  o   .

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#5095

FromMarco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
Date2022-02-13 21:14 +0100
Message-ID<20220213211414.48e14334@ryz>
In reply to#5094
Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2022, um 19:43:03 Uhr schrieb Jorgen Grahn:

> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality.  I'm
> mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
> routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
> TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

Full ack.
That is the reason for unnecessary "keep-alive" packages many
applications send.

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#5103

FromMarc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us>
Date2022-02-14 08:47 +0100
Message-ID<sud1en$h6kr$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to#5095
Marco Moock <mo01@posteo.de> wrote:
>Am Sonntag, 13. Februar 2022, um 19:43:03 Uhr schrieb Jorgen Grahn:
>
>> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality.  I'm
>> mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and that home
>> routers tend to drop the state after a while so that e.g. long-lived
>> TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.
>
>Full ack.
>That is the reason for unnecessary "keep-alive" packages many
>applications send.

And then there are the application that need constant pampering and
additional crutches to work through nat, and probably still lose
significant parts of their functionality even if all crutches are
properly in place.

Those are such unimportant protocols like ftp and SIP/RTP. Heck, who
wants telephony anyway?!?

Greetings
Marc, currently cursed with an unreliable telephone because of NAT
-- 
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#5109

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-15 11:48 -0700
Message-ID<sugshg$73a$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5094
On 2/13/22 12:43 PM, Jorgen Grahn wrote:
> NAT tends to be not only more work but also worse functionality. 
> I'm mainly thinking of how NAT keeps state in the routers, and 
> that home routers tend to drop the state after a while so that 
> e.g. long-lived TCP sessions tend to silently stop working.

That's /stateful/ NAT.  There is also the older /stateless/ NAT that 
does not have this problem.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5113

FromMarco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
Date2022-02-15 20:08 +0100
Message-ID<20220215200846.54434d76@ryz>
In reply to#5109
Am Dienstag, 15. Februar 2022, um 11:48:30 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> That's /stateful/ NAT.  There is also the older /stateless/ NAT that 
> does not have this problem.

I know and stateless NAT64 is a nice feature to make servers reachable
via IPv6 without configuring the entire network, e.g. when implementing
IPv6 is difficult in the current network infrastructure.

It think it will also be used in future for making IPv6-only servers
reachable via IPv4.

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#5118

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-15 12:19 -0700
Message-ID<sugub1$ia2$3@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5113
On 2/15/22 12:08 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
> I know and stateless NAT64

I was referring to stateless NAT44.  E.g. prefix translation; 
192.0.2.x/24 <=> 198.51.100.x/24



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5120

FromMarco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
Date2022-02-15 21:09 +0100
Message-ID<20220215210950.3ba8891c@ryz>
In reply to#5118
Am Dienstag, 15. Februar 2022, um 12:19:12 Uhr schrieb Grant Taylor:

> On 2/15/22 12:08 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
> > I know and stateless NAT64  
> 
> I was referring to stateless NAT44.  E.g. prefix translation; 
> 192.0.2.x/24 <=> 198.51.100.x/24

I know it exists, but what is the purpose of that?
I have never seen that in productive networks yet.

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#5122

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-15 18:09 -0700
Message-ID<suhirp$5d1$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5120
On 2/15/22 1:09 PM, Marco Moock wrote:
> I know it exists, but what is the purpose of that?

It does exactly what it says on the name-plate.

There are some cases where you need to change the network prefix but not 
the last octet of an IP address.

I used this for the scenario I described in the D.R. / MS AD / DNS comments.

It's an uncommon, but not unheard of use case.  It allows you to 
collapse many SNAT / DNAT rules down to two prefix translation rules.

> I have never seen that in productive networks yet.

I have a few times.



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5043

FromDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date2022-02-10 20:43 +0000
Message-ID<slrnt0au84.5ru.dan@djph.net>
In reply to#5039
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 2/10/22 12:15 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> Although you need neither port-forwarding nor NAT on v6...
>
> Maybe.  Maybe not.
>
> It depends on the network topology and other layers of the stack, 
> including layers 8 (politics) and 9 (money) influence this.

To rephrase slightly --

The sheer number of available addresses is such that NAT is not an
inherent requirement of setting up a new IPv6 network that is intended
to communicate with the wider internet.

This is in contrast to an IPv4 network, wherein the vast majority of
devices will be configured for an address contained within RFC1918
space, and will therefore require NAT to communicate to the wider
internet.



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-- 
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O|

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#5046

FromGrant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Date2022-02-10 14:06 -0700
Message-ID<su3unv$th6$1@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>
In reply to#5043
On 2/10/22 1:43 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
> To rephrase slightly --

;-)

Clarifying points are a good thing for discussions.  :-D

> The sheer number of available addresses is such that NAT is not an 
> inherent requirement of setting up a new IPv6 network that is intended 
> to communicate with the wider internet.

I absolutely agree.

I have considerably more uses for NAT than /just/ the number of globally 
routed IP addresses I have at my disposal.

> This is in contrast to an IPv4 network, wherein the vast majority of 
> devices will be configured for an address contained within RFC1918 
> space, and will therefore require NAT to communicate to the wider 
> internet.

/me chuckles menacingly to himself.  RFC 1918.  There are a LOT of other 
non-globally routed addresses that can be used.  Then there are the 
globally routed IP addresses that can be stomped on.  }:-)



-- 
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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#5051

FromDan Purgert <dan@djph.net>
Date2022-02-10 21:54 +0000
Message-ID<slrnt0b2e4.5ru.dan@djph.net>
In reply to#5046
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

Grant Taylor wrote:
> On 2/10/22 1:43 PM, Dan Purgert wrote:
>> [...]
>> This is in contrast to an IPv4 network, wherein the vast majority of 
>> devices will be configured for an address contained within RFC1918 
>> space, and will therefore require NAT to communicate to the wider 
>> internet.
>
> /me chuckles menacingly to himself.  RFC 1918.  There are a LOT of other 
> non-globally routed addresses that can be used.  Then there are the 
> globally routed IP addresses that can be stomped on.  }:-)

Sure, but you understand the point I'm making with the ipv4 'private'
networks here.


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-- 
|_|O|_| Github: https://github.com/dpurgert
|_|_|O| PGP: DDAB 23FB 19FA 7D85 1CC1  E067 6D65 70E5 4CE7 2860
|O|O|O|

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#5061

FromMarc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us>
Date2022-02-11 14:22 +0100
Message-ID<su5nuu$47ba$1@news1.tnib.de>
In reply to#5046
Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
>There are a LOT of other 
>non-globally routed addresses that can be used. 

Which ones, for example?

Greetings
Marc
-- 
-------------------------------------- !! No courtesy copies, please !! -----
Marc Haber         |   " Questions are the         | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany  |     Beginning of Wisdom "     | 
Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 621 72739834

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#5062

FromMarco Moock <mo01@posteo.de>
Date2022-02-11 14:34 +0100
Message-ID<20220211143446.4134c032@ryz>
In reply to#5061
Am Freitag, 11. Februar 2022, um 14:22:38 Uhr schrieb Marc Haber:

> Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net> wrote:
> >There are a LOT of other 
> >non-globally routed addresses that can be used.   
> 
> Which ones, for example?

IPv6 ULA
IPv6 site-local (but deprecated)
IPv6 link-local (no routing at all)
IPv4 link-local (used for APIPA, no routing, 169.254.0.0/16)

All not intended for connecting to other sites, only for internal stuff.

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