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Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT

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On 31/05/12 13:31, Marco wrote:
> On 2012-05-31 David Brown<david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com>  wrote:
>
>> Viewing your neighbours' communications with wireshark is likely to be
>> violating the building's policy, if they have written a decent one.
>
> There is no written policy. I pay and receive ”internet access”,
> that's all there is.
>
>> It is also possibly a criminal offence in some countries.
>
> I'm not at all interested in what my neighbours are doing. I have my
> own router and network for my computers. While developing I use
> wireshark and I just happen to see my neighbours communication
> (which I filter out anyway). I don't know the laws of the country I
> live in, but my personal sense of right tells me that I am allowed
> to start wireshark in my own network for developing purposes. And
> that's all I do. Honestly, I don't think anyone cares.
>

I didn't think for a moment that you were doing anything immoral, or 
even questionable, such as spying on your neighbours.  All I am doing is 
warning you that sometimes these things are illegal.  And you may have 
to be careful - while wireshark is passive, you might also be using 
tools such as nmap, and with such an open network it's easy to 
accidentally "poke" someone else's machine.  All you then need is a 
paranoid user whose software firewall throws up warnings, and who then 
complains of a "hacker" in the building.  Being right, and knowing the 
building network administrators are clueless, is not going to help if 
things get ugly.  Ordinary users don't care, and knowledgeable people 
understand that you are doing no harm - but there is a class in the 
middle of people who know a little and think they know a lot, who can 
cause you trouble.

>> Of course, the people responsible for the network in the building have
>> done a poor job if you can view other people's traffic like this.
>
> I totally agree.
>
>>> I don't think I violate any policy when I just try to SSH to my
>>> computer.
>>>
>>
>> Trying to figure a way to punch holes in the router and firewall is
>> almost certainly against policy, and quite possibly illegal (despite the
>> incompetence of the network administrators).
>
> As I said, there's no written policy.
>
>> It is also hard and unreliable.
>
> That information is more important than the legal side.
>
>> Far and away the easiest, safest, and most legal way is to have a
>> third-party machine outside the network, which is accessible from
>> anywhere.  Your home machine connects to it, your outside client
>> connects to it, and the third-party machine connects the two in some way
>> (vpn, tunnel, ssh proxy, etc.).
>>
>> […]
>>
>> I believe there are some websites designed for this sort of thing,
>> though I haven't tried them.  There certainly are for remote desktop
>> viewing (mostly targeting windows systems).  Remote hosting or cloud
>> servers would work fine, if you can find something cheap enough for your
>> budget - it would take absolutely minimal resources.
>
> I will check if there are suitable services for me. Thanks for the
> tip.
>
>> Or perhaps you have friends or relatives with an ADSL line or
>> other always-on, global IP network connection, and can leave a
>> little connector box there?
>
> Most people here are also behind NAT. I start to develop a strong
> dislike against this technology.
>

NAT has its good points and its bad points.  A NAT router won't stop a 
determined attack, and it won't stop attacks that go around it (such as 
trojans), but it provides a fair amount of security and anonymity at 
very little cost.  It also lets networks make much more efficient use of 
limited routing resources and global IP addresses.

But it /is/ a pain when you need access from the outside - such as your 
case here, or when using protocols like bittorrent.

The best combination is to have a NAT router - but for it to be /your/ 
NAT router, so that you can forward ports as and when you like, and to 
have a valid global IP address on the internet side.  Unfortunately, 
that's not an option for you at the moment.  (If you have Windows PC's 
as well, either your own or perhaps visitors, then I strongly recommend 
you get a cheapo NAT router of your own to protect the Windows machines 
from worms and other malware on the PC's in the building.)

> Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain the possibilities.
>
>
> Regards
>
> Marco
>

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Thread

SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-05-30 22:12 +0200
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2012-05-30 22:57 +0200
    Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2012-05-30 22:58 +0200
      Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-05-30 23:12 +0200
        Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2012-05-31 00:10 +0200
          Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-06-01 00:00 +0200
            Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2012-06-09 13:04 +0200
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Rick Jones <rick.jones2@hp.com> - 2012-05-30 22:45 +0000
    Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-05-31 12:44 +0200
      Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT David Brown <david@westcontrol.removethisbit.com> - 2012-05-31 12:58 +0200
        Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-05-31 13:31 +0200
          Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2012-05-31 12:55 +0000
          Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT David Brown <david.brown@removethis.hesbynett.no> - 2012-05-31 15:01 +0200
            Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Richard Kettlewell <rjk@greenend.org.uk> - 2012-05-31 14:36 +0100
        Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2012-05-31 13:45 +0000
          Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Marco <netuse@lavabit.com> - 2012-05-31 17:38 +0200
            Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Whiskers <catwheezel@operamail.com> - 2012-05-31 18:30 +0000
              Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2012-05-31 20:07 +0000
      Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT J G Miller <miller@yoyo.ORG> - 2012-05-31 12:53 +0000
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Ralph Spitzner <rasp@spitzner.org> - 2012-05-31 09:56 +0200
    Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Pascal Hambourg <boite-a-spam@plouf.fr.eu.org> - 2012-06-09 13:06 +0200
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT Chris Davies <chris-usenet@roaima.co.uk> - 2012-05-31 09:04 +0100
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT ein <ein@no.spam> - 2012-06-02 11:40 +0200
  Re: SSH connection through a router applying NAT "Ralph" <ralphzodapn@ymeal.com> - 2012-06-05 11:30 +0000

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