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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #90165 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000 |
| Last post | 2026-08-24 19:08 +0100 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 105 — 18 participants |
Back to article view | Back to comp.os.linux.misc
/dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-19 21:20 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:53 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-19 23:42 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 00:59 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 03:59 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-20 10:10 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:15 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-20 23:30 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 01:18 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 09:52 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 08:12 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-21 11:16 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:57 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-22 06:17 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 21:50 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2026-08-24 17:42 +0300
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 23:53 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:27 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 00:56 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-23 04:01 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 03:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:50 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp vallor <vallor@vallor.earth> - 2026-08-23 22:28 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:35 +0200
Overwriting with random data (was: Re: /dev/tcp) Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:10 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:34 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 20:57 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 22:26 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:39 -0400
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 08:45 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:36 +0200
Re: Overwriting with random data Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 15:19 +0100
Re: Overwriting with random data The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:12 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:37 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:31 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:45 +0200
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:52 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 12:50 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 13:50 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-20 13:02 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2026-08-20 18:26 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:54 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:57 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-22 21:47 +0200
The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-22 23:50 +0000
Re: The hammer is best (Was: /dev/tcp) c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 04:28 -0400
Re: The hammer is best Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 10:14 +0100
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:55 +0200
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 13:16 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-23 21:20 +0200
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:18 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:26 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:06 -0400
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:18 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Joed Oakes <lost@noway.home.invalid> - 2026-08-23 19:42 -0400
Re: The hammer is best Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 23:56 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 02:25 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 01:14 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-24 09:50 +0200
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 00:56 -0400
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 11:28 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:07 -0400
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:39 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100
Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:05 +0100
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:43 +0200
Re: The hammer is best Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 20:21 +0000
Re: The hammer is best "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 23:14 +0200
Re: The hammer is best rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 19:08 +0000
Re: The hammer is best The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:20 +0100
Re: The hammer is best c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-23 22:16 -0400
Re: /dev/tcp Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:41 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-21 22:58 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-21 22:28 -0400
ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-24 13:56 +0100
Bash vs. ksh - Does it matter? And the 'vi' mode thing... (Was: ksh (was: /dev/tcp)) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 14:57 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-24 21:08 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) - 2026-08-24 21:28 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 01:11 +0000
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> - 2026-08-25 13:25 +0100
Re: ksh (was: /dev/tcp) Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 21:58 +0000
Re: ksh c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2026-08-25 02:25 -0400
Re: ksh rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-08-25 06:52 +0000
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
Re: ksh Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000
Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:03 +0000
Re: ksh Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2026-08-25 09:56 +0200
Re: ksh "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2026-08-25 11:24 +0200
Re: ksh Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam2616@zugschl.us> - 2026-08-25 20:36 +0200
Re: ksh The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-25 12:27 +0100
Re: ksh Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-25 22:01 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com> - 2026-08-20 18:22 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-21 13:57 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> - 2026-08-23 06:37 -0700
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 14:49 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-23 16:13 +0100
Re: /dev/tcp Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-08-23 22:31 +0000
Re: /dev/tcp Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2026-08-24 19:08 +0100
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 00:53 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <l9icnfjKBY0dUxb3nZ2dnZfqnPGdnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90392 |
On 8/23/26 08:16, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 23/08/2026 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2026-08-23 11:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote: >>> gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: >>>> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >>>> ... >>>>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme >>>>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton >>>>>> way - HAMMER :-) >>>>> >>>>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions. >>>> >>>> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a >>>> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key. >>> >>> My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from >>> here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t >>> have the opportunity to destroy it. >> >> Exactly. >> >> And in the typical business case, hammering of disks is not often done. > > It is UNIVERSALLY done in the UK. > Insurance will be voided, contracts lost and people will get fired if > it is not. Ok, still SOME intelligence in the UK ! :-) > The big sources of usable hardware are BIG corporates - banks, insurance > companies, travel agencies... they dump a thousand machines a year to > recycling companies who sign in blood that the disk will be CRUSHED. > >> Hard disks are simply repurposed, recycled, sold... usually zeroing >> them first. Encryption protects the case when zeroing is forgotten, or >> the disk breaks before that. Encryption protects against such accidents. >> > No, they are not. Not by corporations. Some Mickey Mouse companies with > nothing worth stealing might... Physical destruction IS best. This can actually be as simple as a hammer or cold chisel. However the drill-press approach will also getcha there, esp if the drill also ruins the physical mechanism for read/write. Almost all drives these days have it in the SAME location. Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. Oh, while for a little while they made HDDs with glass platters, almost all are aluminum. Even a quarter-inch hole, followed by a small drop of toilet-cleaning hydrochloric acid (a pinch of salt added is even better) will absolutely ROT aluminum platters Real Quick. Used to keep a little vial of the brew. Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data. Defensive measures should be in proportion to the RISK. CIA probably MELTS the things. Joe's Garage does not need to - one good whack with a ball-peen will do it very nicely.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 06:42 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf27enF5rktU31@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90427 |
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: > Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 23:34 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <4R-dnd1P7cUBkBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90438 |
On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. > > .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. Well ... far more FUN !!! However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! Oh, be careful with the 45-ACP, low velocity, has a tendency to ricochet. The .357mag is better IMHO :-) For awhile I had a high-voltage transformer meant for a furnace ignitor spark-thing. Little wire, would thunk it and turn on the transformer. Nasty sparks would then trash the chips on the disk control board. Didn't trash the platters alas, but made reading them a LOT more difficult for low-budget spies. OUR stuff wasn't worth the effort. Now likely cia/nsa have a furnace - a big pot of molten metal - and drop all their old drives into that. THEIR stuff IS 'worth it' for high-end hacks.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 04:08 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf4ipnF5rktU43@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90478 |
On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: >> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. >> >> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. > > Well ... far more FUN !!! > > However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.'
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 11:29 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <vs30mmxkn3.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #90481 |
On 2026-08-25 06:08, rbowman wrote: > On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 23:34:18 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> On 8/24/26 02:42, rbowman wrote: >>> On Mon, 24 Aug 2026 00:53:09 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>> >>>> Good sharp half-inch drillbit ... TWO seconds to ruin the drive. >>> >>> .45 ACP, modified Mozambique Drill. >> >> Well ... far more FUN !!! >> >> However the office manager wasn't gonna go for that ........ downer ! > > The office manager wasn't involved but the programming and QA staff had > their yearly bonding operation out at the range. We even got the wimpiest > QA guy to fire a gun. 'See, just like Star Wars!' > > We had everything from muzzle loaders to ARs. One of the women's father > even showed up with a P08. I always lusted after one of those, well, just > because... ' Si vis pacem, para bellum.' > You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about doing it. :-D -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 18:52 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf66j4F5rktU50@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90505 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 11:29:35 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > You know, that's an USAian thing, over here we don't even think about > doing it. :-D The chunk of the US in particular. There is no registration or permit required in this state so it's a guess but the estimate is 63% of the households have one or more firearm, often a lot more. They used to require a concealed carry permit for incorporated areas but we got rid of that restriction a couple of years ago. Open carry was always allowed except for a few places like the courthouse and bars.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-24 11:28 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116h6d6$2o5cd$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90427 |
On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: > Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna > disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on > a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data. Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. -- The difference bweteen a psychopath and a saint is that the psychpoath takes what he can and gives only what he must, but the saint gives everything he can and takes only what he needs.
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 02:07 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <4R-dndhP7cUKrBD3nZ2dnZfqn_adnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90451 |
On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on >> a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data. > > Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ...
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 06:39 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf4rkdF5rktU45@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90490 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: > On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >> >> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. > > Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". > > Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source code it would set them back five years.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 12:23 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116jtvv$3l7js$12@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90494 |
On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: > On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: > >> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>> >>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >> >> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >> >> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... > > I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source > code it would set them back five years. > Yeah well.... Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle and sank... Probably apocryphal -- "If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the news paper, you are mis-informed." Mark Twain
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 18:26 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <K7ljS.4$UGU.1@fx46.iad> |
| In reply to | #90522 |
On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: > >> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: >> >>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>> >>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>> >>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>>> >>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >>> >>> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >>> >>> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... >> >> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source >> code it would set them back five years. >> > Yeah well.... > > Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get > 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle > and sank... > > Probably apocryphal Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer, loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan, and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 20:05 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116kp23$6rh$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90552 |
On 25/08/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>> >>>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>>>> >>>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >>>> >>>> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >>>> >>>> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... >>> >>> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source >>> code it would set them back five years. >>> >> Yeah well.... >> >> Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get >> 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle >> and sank... >> >> Probably apocryphal > > Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits > took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer, > loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan, > and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it. > The Man Who Never Was. Shot to nothing, but it actually worked! IIRC it was the Spanish who found it -- Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. Groucho Marx
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 21:43 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <cs71mmxrf1.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #90559 |
On 2026-08-25 21:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 25/08/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>>>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>>>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >>>>> >>>>> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >>>>> >>>>> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... >>>> >>>> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire >>>> source >>>> code it would set them back five years. >>>> >>> Yeah well.... >>> >>> Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get >>> 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle >>> and sank... >>> >>> Probably apocryphal >> >> Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits >> took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer, >> loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan, >> and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it. >> > The Man Who Never Was. > > Shot to nothing, but it actually worked! > > IIRC it was the Spanish who found it Yes, because the body was set adrift from a British submarine near Spain. A fisherman found it. The authorities here at the time were very friendly with the Nazis, being fascists themselves. So the Nazis got a secret peek at the sealed papers before returning the body and belongings to the British Embassy people. I think the tomb in Spain now has the true name of the person. Not sure about this, maybe he was taken back to Britain now that the history is public, and honoured as a posthumous hero? -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 20:21 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <DPmjS.2$dCP2.1@fx02.iad> |
| In reply to | #90559 |
On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > On 25/08/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > >> On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >> >>> On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: >>> >>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>>>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>>>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>>>>> >>>>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >>>>> >>>>> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >>>>> >>>>> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... >>>> >>>> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source >>>> code it would set them back five years. >>>> >>> Yeah well.... >>> >>> Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get >>> 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle >>> and sank... >>> >>> Probably apocryphal >> >> Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits >> took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer, >> loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan, >> and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it. >> > The Man Who Never Was. > > Shot to nothing, but it actually worked! > > IIRC it was the Spanish who found it Thanks - I figured someone would rememer the title. I read the book way back when. -- /~\ Charlie Gibbs | In this world there are \ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | two kinds of people: X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | 1. Those who can extrapolate / \ if you read it the right way. | from incomplete data.
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| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 23:14 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <o5d1mmxbgj.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #90569 |
On 2026-08-25 22:21, Charlie Gibbs wrote: > On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: > >> On 25/08/2026 19:26, Charlie Gibbs wrote: >> >>> On 2026-08-25, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote: >>> >>>> On 25/08/2026 07:39, rbowman wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 02:07:49 -0400, c186282 wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>>>>>>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on a stick" >>>>>>>> over them to try and recover bits of data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. >>>>>> >>>>>> Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". >>>>>> >>>>>> Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... >>>>> >>>>> I used to joke that if a competitor got their hands on our entire source >>>>> code it would set them back five years. >>>>> >>>> Yeah well.... >>>> >>>> Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get >>>> 'stolen' by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle >>>> and sank... >>>> >>>> Probably apocryphal >>> >>> Perhaps, but then there was that WWII operation where the Brits >>> took a random body, dressed it up like a high-ranking officer, >>> loaded it with faked papers describing a bogus battle plan, >>> and set it adrift where the Nazis could find it. >>> >> The Man Who Never Was. >> >> Shot to nothing, but it actually worked! >> >> IIRC it was the Spanish who found it > > Thanks - I figured someone would rememer the title. > I read the book way back when. Here you have the facts: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mincemeat> -- Cheers, Carlos. ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 19:08 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <nf67gjF5rktU51@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90522 |
On Tue, 25 Aug 2026 12:23:43 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > Didn't they do that with some battleship plans, that they let get > 'stolen' > by Japan, who built the ship, launched it, and it turned turtle and > sank... > > Probably apocryphal The US did something like that after WWI. They copied a captured German Zepplin and build a few. It was a 'height climber' designed for a 16,000' ceiling, well above the pesky Brit aeroplanes. Some made it to 20,000'. They weren't daily drivers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Shenandoah_(ZR-1)
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-25 12:20 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <116jtql$3l7js$11@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90490 |
On 25/08/2026 07:07, c186282 wrote: > On 8/24/26 06:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 24/08/2026 05:53, c186282 wrote: >>> Anyway, unless you're the CIA or such, nobody is gonna >>> disassemble yer old drives and try to run a "head on >>> a stick" over them to try and recover bits of data. >> >> Large corporate competitors might well undertake such. > > Think "time/resource investment -vs- likely payoff". > > Disks from CIA boxes, yes, WORTH IT. Otherwise ... > In my experience, it's the same with banks, and any big company. Formula, test results and synthesis route for the next wonder drug? Billions Entire list of insurance companies customers and what they are insuring? Millions Why take the risk? -- There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons that sound good. Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)
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| From | c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-23 22:16 -0400 |
| Subject | Re: The hammer is best |
| Message-ID | <ViCdnRhVJp7xNBb3nZ2dnZfqnPudnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| In reply to | #90379 |
On 8/23/26 05:14, Richard Kettlewell wrote: > gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack) writes: >> Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote: >> ... >>>> are hidden buffers plus the wear-leveling scheme >>>> gets in the way. You wipe 'em the Hillary Clinton >>>> way - HAMMER :-) >>> >>> Instead, use encryption, on the device or the partitions. >> >> Hammer is better, because encryption can be worked around by holding a >> gun to the head of the person who knows the encryption key. > > My backup drives are encrypted. In principle they could be stolen from > here, from an offsite location or in transit and if that happens I won’t > have the opportunity to destroy it. > > The chances that someone would threaten my life or liberty over it are > negligible, but if they did, they wouldn’t need to wait for a device to > be disposed of, they’d just turn up at my door with a weapon, RIPA > notice or other leverage. > > Physical destruction is not really relevant for most of the lifetime of > confidential data, and encryption does actually achieve something useful > in realistic use cases. > > High value data is protected by keys that no human knows. However when you open the lock, anyone 'watching' can then get at the data. Physically stealing drives, very rare, tends to be noticed.
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| From | Geoff Clare <geoff@clare.See-My-Signature.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-21 13:41 +0100 |
| Message-ID | <bltllm-fgq.ln1@ID-313840.user.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #90219 |
c186282 wrote: > On 8/20/26 09:50, Rich wrote: >> >> These are handled by Bash, they don't exist as part of the OS (system). > > Correct. I've used the /dev/tcp trick before to > check ports. Seems to only work with Bash. Others > might add it eventually, but not too likely. According to https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/061 the feature was added to bash in version 2.04 and was "Copied from / Inspired by" ksh93. It certainly works in the versions of ksh93 I have. -- Geoff Clare <netnews@gclare.org.uk>
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-21 22:58 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <116al76$m98h$8@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #90284 |
On Fri, 21 Aug 2026 13:41:47 +0100, Geoff Clare wrote: > According to https://mywiki.wooledge.org/BashFAQ/061 the feature was > added to bash in version 2.04 and was "Copied from / Inspired by" > ksh93. > > It certainly works in the versions of ksh93 I have. Whatever happened to the idea of “do one thing, and do it well” ... ?
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