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Groups > comp.os.linux.misc > #70357 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2025-08-05 08:14 +0000 |
| Last post | 2025-08-23 05:43 +0000 |
| Articles | 13 on this page of 113 — 24 participants |
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Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-05 08:14 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-05 11:22 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marco Moock <mm@dorfdsl.de> - 2025-08-05 11:34 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2025-08-05 11:30 -0400
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-05 19:56 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 01:06 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-08-06 01:32 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 04:20 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> - 2025-08-06 01:33 -0400
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-06 09:31 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 08:56 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 10:35 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-06 11:38 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 00:06 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-11 11:50 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-11 22:02 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-12 08:39 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-12 10:49 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-12 10:54 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-08-12 18:47 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-12 23:36 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-12 12:08 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-12 19:35 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-12 23:07 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-13 09:47 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-14 00:41 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-19 12:35 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-19 12:18 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-19 15:16 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 01:02 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-27 06:56 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-28 00:50 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-28 09:40 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-29 00:56 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-29 08:10 -0700
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-29 19:16 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-08-30 16:59 +0300
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-08-30 18:45 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Tauno Voipio <tauno.voipio@notused.fi.invalid> - 2025-08-31 21:24 +0300
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> - 2025-09-01 17:02 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 03:25 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-30 06:34 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-30 08:39 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-30 08:45 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Harold Stevens <wookie@trixie.localdomain> - 2025-08-30 05:37 -0500
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-09-02 09:59 -0700
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Harold Stevens <wookie@aspen.localdomain> - 2025-09-02 12:59 -0500
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-30 17:48 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 01:01 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:52 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 22:36 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:44 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 11:34 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 14:36 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-21 14:27 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 21:37 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 10:33 +0100
Manuals [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:39 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-22 01:12 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-22 01:06 +0000
Documentation [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:26 +0200
Re: Documentation [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 23:13 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-08-20 07:47 -0700
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 22:37 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-20 19:25 +0000
tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 12:04 +0200
Re: tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-23 12:40 +0000
Re: tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-24 00:40 +0200
Re: tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 23:15 +0000
Re: tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Stéphane CARPENTIER <sc@fiat-linux.fr> - 2025-08-24 11:22 +0000
Re: tldr [WAS: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-24 22:18 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-08-21 12:40 +0300
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:21 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 16:24 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 10:12 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-08-07 11:43 +0300
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use John McCue <jmclnx@gmail.com.invalid> - 2025-08-06 11:55 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-06 07:40 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 06:31 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-06 11:06 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Richard Kettlewell <invalid@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-06 14:25 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-06 17:11 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:59 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-07 08:37 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-07 06:52 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-08-18 16:49 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-06 12:46 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-06 23:56 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-19 12:41 +0200
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 01:07 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 09:48 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 11:13 +0100
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 22:40 +0000
Re: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use vallor <vallor@cultnix.org> - 2025-08-21 00:27 +0000
ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-20 13:04 +0200
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-20 12:30 +0100
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-20 22:44 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-21 12:15 +0200
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-22 01:18 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 12:45 +0200
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 19:37 +0100
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-08-22 22:32 +0200
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-22 21:56 +0100
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 00:28 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 05:51 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-08-23 11:23 +0100
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-23 23:12 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> - 2025-08-29 19:40 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-30 05:59 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-30 06:36 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> - 2025-08-30 10:36 +0200
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2025-08-31 01:25 +0000
Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-08-23 05:43 +0000
Page 6 of 6 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 5 [6]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-22 19:37 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108ade7$1n7i9$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #71913 |
On 22/08/2025 11:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2025-08-22 03:18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 12:15:18 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> >>> One day they came, removed the ONT and the router, and placed a new >>> router. One box less. >> >> And no more possibility of demarcation. Bad. > > One good thing, is that we have access to the VoIP configuration and > install (undocumented) true VoIP phones. We did not have access to > configure the ONT, and thus, the phone. > > I believe people have reverse engineered it all. I was told there is > some EU directive saying people have the right to install their own > routers. > >> >> Another thing that the ONT allows is, I have my landline from a different >> provider from my Internet connection. They come out of different ports on >> the box in my house, though they get here on the same physical piece of >> fibre. >> >>> Everything belongs to one company, Telefónica. It is possible to >>> contract a different company, but the physical fibre is the same one. >> >> This sounds like NZ about 30 years ago, after NZ Telecom was privatized, >> and just as the Internet was taking off. Too late, it was realized that >> this left control of the entire NZ phone-number space, as well as >> ownership of the copper lines into every household, in private hands. >> >> The latter problem was solved by the local-loop unbundling I mentioned >> elsewhere -- some described it as a renationalization of the “last-mile” >> copper network in all but name. That made a big difference to the >> competitiveness of the broadband market. >> >> And the mistake was not repeated when the fibre network was put in place. > > I worked in this field years ago, before fibre. I have not seen the > fibre exchanges, how they do things. > Fundamentally its just like a big ethernet switch bank. Shit loads of fibres going into a rack mount unit and one or two coming out the back. Plus some power -- WOKE is an acronym... Without Originality, Knowledge or Education.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-22 22:32 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <eo0nnlxut7.ln2@Telcontar.valinor> |
| In reply to | #71934 |
On 2025-08-22 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > On 22/08/2025 11:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >> On 2025-08-22 03:18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 12:15:18 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> >>>> One day they came, removed the ONT and the router, and placed a new >>>> router. One box less. >>> >>> And no more possibility of demarcation. Bad. >> >> One good thing, is that we have access to the VoIP configuration and >> install (undocumented) true VoIP phones. We did not have access to >> configure the ONT, and thus, the phone. >> >> I believe people have reverse engineered it all. I was told there is >> some EU directive saying people have the right to install their own >> routers. >> >>> >>> Another thing that the ONT allows is, I have my landline from a >>> different >>> provider from my Internet connection. They come out of different >>> ports on >>> the box in my house, though they get here on the same physical piece of >>> fibre. >>> >>>> Everything belongs to one company, Telefónica. It is possible to >>>> contract a different company, but the physical fibre is the same one. >>> >>> This sounds like NZ about 30 years ago, after NZ Telecom was privatized, >>> and just as the Internet was taking off. Too late, it was realized that >>> this left control of the entire NZ phone-number space, as well as >>> ownership of the copper lines into every household, in private hands. >>> >>> The latter problem was solved by the local-loop unbundling I mentioned >>> elsewhere -- some described it as a renationalization of the “last-mile” >>> copper network in all but name. That made a big difference to the >>> competitiveness of the broadband market. >>> >>> And the mistake was not repeated when the fibre network was put in >>> place. >> >> I worked in this field years ago, before fibre. I have not seen the >> fibre exchanges, how they do things. >> > > Fundamentally its just like a big ethernet switch bank. Shit loads of > fibres going into a rack mount unit and one or two coming out the back. > > Plus some power The electronics to accept that amount of bandwidth must be impressive. What they did with cable, is that the cable arrived at a... I don't know the name in English. On one side of a rack, the cables are wrapped on pins, thousands of them. At the other side, another pair goes to a similar rack, that belongs to each company. So you can easily rewire the cable coming from a customer to the exchange, and there route physically to the rack of the actual company that supplies phone service to that customer. With fibre it is not possible, because each fibre brings 16 customers time multiplexed. It must be software. -- Cheers, Carlos.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-22 21:56 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108ali5$1pga7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #71959 |
On 22/08/2025 21:32, Carlos E.R. wrote: > On 2025-08-22 20:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> On 22/08/2025 11:45, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>> On 2025-08-22 03:18, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: >>>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 12:15:18 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: >>>> >>>>> One day they came, removed the ONT and the router, and placed a new >>>>> router. One box less. >>>> >>>> And no more possibility of demarcation. Bad. >>> >>> One good thing, is that we have access to the VoIP configuration and >>> install (undocumented) true VoIP phones. We did not have access to >>> configure the ONT, and thus, the phone. >>> >>> I believe people have reverse engineered it all. I was told there is >>> some EU directive saying people have the right to install their own >>> routers. >>> >>>> >>>> Another thing that the ONT allows is, I have my landline from a >>>> different >>>> provider from my Internet connection. They come out of different >>>> ports on >>>> the box in my house, though they get here on the same physical piece of >>>> fibre. >>>> >>>>> Everything belongs to one company, Telefónica. It is possible to >>>>> contract a different company, but the physical fibre is the same one. >>>> >>>> This sounds like NZ about 30 years ago, after NZ Telecom was >>>> privatized, >>>> and just as the Internet was taking off. Too late, it was realized that >>>> this left control of the entire NZ phone-number space, as well as >>>> ownership of the copper lines into every household, in private hands. >>>> >>>> The latter problem was solved by the local-loop unbundling I mentioned >>>> elsewhere -- some described it as a renationalization of the >>>> “last-mile” >>>> copper network in all but name. That made a big difference to the >>>> competitiveness of the broadband market. >>>> >>>> And the mistake was not repeated when the fibre network was put in >>>> place. >>> >>> I worked in this field years ago, before fibre. I have not seen the >>> fibre exchanges, how they do things. >>> >> >> Fundamentally its just like a big ethernet switch bank. Shit loads of >> fibres going into a rack mount unit and one or two coming out the back. >> >> Plus some power > > The electronics to accept that amount of bandwidth must be impressive. > > > What they did with cable, is that the cable arrived at a... I don't know > the name in English. On one side of a rack, the cables are wrapped on > pins, thousands of them. At the other side, another pair goes to a > similar rack, that belongs to each company. So you can easily rewire the > cable coming from a customer to the exchange, and there route physically > to the rack of the actual company that supplies phone service to that > customer. > Yes. Ive seen/heard of that for copper. > With fibre it is not possible, because each fibre brings 16 customers > time multiplexed. It must be software. > I think its way more than 16 in the UK. And its not exactly time multiplexed. Yes, it's software. At some level the ONT has a code in it that encodes the data and decodes it and acts as an identifier. A packet from your ONT gets thrown onto a huge optical backbone via the OLT and routed off to the ISP. At that level it's just streams of optical packets. I don't know what optical routers are like, but a big Cisco is the sort of endpoints the ISP would probably use. Everything is pretty much software, because its all a huge packet switched network -- “Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.” H.L. Mencken, A Mencken Chrestomathy
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-23 00:28 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108b1vt$1sh9b$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #71962 |
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 21:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > A packet from your ONT gets thrown onto a huge optical backbone via the > OLT and routed off to the ISP. At layer 2 it’s called a “frame”. “Packet” is the term for layer 3 and above.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-23 05:51 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <mgt37iFb0fbU12@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #71975 |
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 00:28:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 21:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> A packet from your ONT gets thrown onto a huge optical backbone via the >> OLT and routed off to the ISP. > > At layer 2 it’s called a “frame”. “Packet” is the term for layer 3 and > above. All these years and I still don't have the OSI model down pat. otoh I'm not a network engineer and there are many thing in life where It Just Works is good enough for me. I do know more about TCP tables and ICMP statistics than I ever necessarily wanted to.
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| From | The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-23 11:23 +0100 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108c4ro$234t5$12@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #72001 |
On 23/08/2025 06:51, rbowman wrote: > On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 00:28:45 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote: > >> On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 21:56:37 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: >> >>> A packet from your ONT gets thrown onto a huge optical backbone via the >>> OLT and routed off to the ISP. >> >> At layer 2 it’s called a “frame”. “Packet” is the term for layer 3 and >> above. > > All these years and I still don't have the OSI model down pat. otoh I'm > not a network engineer and there are many thing in life where It Just > Works is good enough for me. I do know more about TCP tables and ICMP > statistics than I ever necessarily wanted to. Amen to that. The OSI model was just more academic spaff. Most hardware/software broke that model anyway. -- “It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.” Thomas Sowell
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-23 23:12 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108dht5$2f5h3$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #72031 |
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 11:23:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> The OSI model was just more academic spaff. Most hardware/software
> broke that model anyway.
Not sure what a better alternative is, which is why still use it, or
at least parts of it. My interpretation:
Layer 0
-- the laws of physics. Our starting point for building everything
Layer 1
-- the physical connection. Might be a wire, might be radio waves,
cans connected by string, whatever.
Layer 2
-- the point-to-point communication protocol
Layer 3
-- routing layer
Layer 4
-- end-node-to-end-node communication
Layer 5
-- process on one node communicating with process on another node
Layer 6
-- not really meaningful
Layer 7
-- the actual applications the user wants to run
Layer 8
-- the human user
If you look for example at IEEE802, then that’s kind of a split across
layer 1 and layer 2. IEEE802.2 defines the MAC layer, with those “MAC
addresses” we’re all familiar with, which is point-to-point but
hardware-independent. Then IEEE802.x for x ≥ 3 defines all the various
options for a hardware-dependent layer under that. E.g. 802.3 is (near
enough) what we call “Ethernet”, 802.11 is wi-fi, and so on.
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| From | candycanearter07 <candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-29 19:40 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <slrn10b40cl.3thn1.candycanearter07@candydeb.host.invalid> |
| In reply to | #72090 |
Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 23:12 this Saturday (GMT): > On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 11:23:52 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote: > >> The OSI model was just more academic spaff. Most hardware/software >> broke that model anyway. > > Not sure what a better alternative is, which is why still use it, or > at least parts of it. My interpretation: > > Layer 0 > -- the laws of physics. Our starting point for building everything > Layer 1 > -- the physical connection. Might be a wire, might be radio waves, > cans connected by string, whatever. > Layer 2 > -- the point-to-point communication protocol > Layer 3 > -- routing layer > Layer 4 > -- end-node-to-end-node communication > Layer 5 > -- process on one node communicating with process on another node > Layer 6 > -- not really meaningful > Layer 7 > -- the actual applications the user wants to run > Layer 8 > -- the human user So you're saying a Social Engineering attack could be called a Layer 8 attack? > If you look for example at IEEE802, then that’s kind of a split across > layer 1 and layer 2. IEEE802.2 defines the MAC layer, with those “MAC > addresses” we’re all familiar with, which is point-to-point but > hardware-independent. Then IEEE802.x for x ≥ 3 defines all the various > options for a hardware-dependent layer under that. E.g. 802.3 is (near > enough) what we call “Ethernet”, 802.11 is wi-fi, and so on. So that's why wifi is called 802.11 sometimes, cool! -- user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-30 05:59 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <mhfiagFfiteU3@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #72675 |
On Fri, 29 Aug 2025 19:40:03 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote: > So that's why wifi is called 802.11 sometimes, cool! Or 802.11l, 802.11g, 802.11b, 802.11q, 802.11t ... Not really, but there are a lot of protocols.
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-30 06:36 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108u658$2eq9a$5@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #72090 |
On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 23:12:37 -0000 (UTC), I wrote: > Layer 6 > -- not really meaningful Actually, I think this would be a good place to put encryption transport layers like SSH and TLS. Because they are not really applications (Layer 7) in themselves, they secure access to those applications.
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| From | Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-30 10:36 +0200 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <108ud63$3b677$1@news1.tnib.de> |
| In reply to | #72090 |
Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >My interpretation: The problem is that everybody interprets the layers between 4 and 7 differently. Especially when the marketingdroids come into the game, you can forget clear communication. You interpretation is just adding another kind of ambiguoity. >Layer 8 > -- the human user Layer 9, politics. Layer 10, religion. The real fun starts when you're giving a conference talk and matter of factly mention the "OSI Ten-Layer Model". Usually, noone dares asking. And if one does, then you'll have one more audience chuckle in the talk. Greetings Marc -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " | Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
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| From | Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-31 01:25 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <10908b6$2utm9$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #72729 |
On Sat, 30 Aug 2025 10:36:19 +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > Lawrence D´Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote: >> >> My interpretation: > > The problem is that everybody interprets the layers between 4 and 7 > differently. Especially when the marketingdroids come into the game, you > can forget clear communication. > > You interpretation is just adding another kind of ambiguoity. I’m not aware of any interpretations that would conflict with the ones I posted for layers 3, 4, 5 and 7. They are straight out of the original OSI concept, after all. > Layer 9, politics. > Layer 10, religion. Just class both as “ideology”. As in “anything that is not only separated from reality, but often in direct conflict with it”.
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| From | rbowman <bowman@montana.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2025-08-23 05:43 +0000 |
| Subject | Re: ISP router [Was: Yes, You Need A Firewall On Linux - Here’s Why And Which To Use] |
| Message-ID | <mgt2niFb0fbU11@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #71959 |
On Fri, 22 Aug 2025 22:32:46 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote: > What they did with cable, is that the cable arrived at a... I don't know > the name in English. On one side of a rack, the cables are wrapped on > pins, thousands of them. At the other side, another pair goes to a > similar rack, that belongs to each company. So you can easily rewire the > cable coming from a customer to the exchange, and there route physically > to the rack of the actual company that supplies phone service to that > customer. I've seen telco repairmen after someone digs up a cable. They set up a little tent because they're going to be there for a while. I worked for a general contractor for a few months. The telephone company's motto was 'Call before you dig!' His was 'Keep digging. We'll call if we hit a cable.' I learned a lot in those months about sleazy practices in home construction.
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