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OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout

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  OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 19:36 +0100
    Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 21:49 +0200
      Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-29 21:03 +0100
      Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-29 22:21 +0200
        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 10:31 +0100
          Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 12:33 +0200
            Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 12:55 +0100
              Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 19:03 +0200
                Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 21:11 +0100
                  Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 22:22 +0200
                    Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 22:45 +0100
                      Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 00:28 +0200
                        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-09-30 18:45 -0700
                        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 09:19 +0100
                          Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 11:20 +0200
                            Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 12:20 +0100
                              Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 13:45 +0200
                                Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 09:35 -0700
                                  Gnome 49 [Was: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-01 19:22 +0200
                                    Re: Gnome 49 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-01 10:48 -0700
                                      Re: Gnome 49 Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 11:16 -0700
                                        Re: Gnome 49 rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-01 18:47 +0000
                                          Re: Gnome 49 Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 15:38 -0700
                                            Re: Gnome 49 rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-02 04:24 +0000
                                              Re: Gnome 49 Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 22:22 -0700
                                                Re: Gnome 49 rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2025-10-02 07:20 +0000
                                            Re: Gnome 49 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:17 +0100
                                              Re: Gnome 49 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 12:04 +0100
                                        Re: Gnome 49 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:13 +0100
                                          Re: Gnome 49 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 07:46 -0700
                                            Re: Gnome 49 Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2025-10-02 16:12 +0000
                                              Re: Gnome 49 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-02 09:38 -0700
                                            Re: Gnome 49 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 00:04 +0100
                                            Re: Gnome 49 Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@usenet.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2025-10-04 09:45 +0300
                                              Re: Gnome 49 "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-04 20:27 +0200
                                            Re: Gnome 49 Rich <rich@example.invalid> - 2025-10-04 15:28 +0000
                                              Re: Gnome 49 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2025-10-06 08:41 -0700
                                        Re: Gnome 49 Jim Jackson <jj@franjam.org.uk> - 2025-10-02 11:18 +0000
                                      Re: Gnome 49 The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-02 11:19 +0100
                                        Re: Gnome 49 Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2025-10-02 19:03 +0000
                                  Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 18:33 +0100
                              Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 10:02 +0100
                                Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 10:07 +0100
                            Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> - 2025-10-01 09:25 -0700
                              Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-01 18:31 +0100
              Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 09:50 +0100
                Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 10:05 +0100
                Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 13:35 +0200
        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 09:21 +0100
          Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 13:28 +0200
    Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 19:11 +0200
      Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 21:13 +0100
        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 10:48 +0100
          Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-10-03 10:56 +0100
    Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 19:19 +0200
      Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 21:14 +0100
        Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-09-30 22:22 +0200
          Re: OT: The real story of the Iberian blackout The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2025-09-30 22:45 +0100
      Re: OT: report by the European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E) [Was: The real story of the Iberian blackout] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 13:23 +0200
      Re: OT: report by the The Institute for Technological Research (IIT) at Comillas Pontifical University [Was: The real story of the Iberian blackout] "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> - 2025-10-03 13:23 +0200

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#75549

On 01/10/2025 17:35, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> Well of course.  The Natch has been pumping it out for years and
>   don't expect him to make sense except perhaps on technical matters.

Which is exactly what the conversation was about. My speciality. Energy 
production and the engineering and financing of it.


-- 
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

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#75645

On 2025-10-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 01/10/2025 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-10-01 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 30/09/2025 23:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2025-09-30 23:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 30/09/2025 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[...]
>>>>>> I told you: I refuse to watch a video from an unknown source,
>>>>>> specially if long.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> Afraid you might learn something?
>>>>
>>>> Not wasting my time
>>>>
>>> I'll take that as a yes..
>>
>> The more you insist the more I'm convinced I'm right in my decision
>> to not waste my time with that video.
>>
> Classic cancel/denial behaviour.
> I just wanted to make sure as to whether you were simply misinformed,
> or prejudiced
> Now its is clearly the latter, there is no point in presenting
> rational arguments, so I wont.
> Bye

You're refusing to address criticisms of the source you presented and
basically assuming anyone refusing to watch it falls under a specific
reasoning you want them to fall under. See a pattern?

It's almost as if you picked that video on purpose so that you could
react like this.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#75648

On 03/10/2025 10:02, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-10-01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 01/10/2025 10:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-10-01 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 30/09/2025 23:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-09-30 23:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/09/2025 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> [...]
>>>>>>> I told you: I refuse to watch a video from an unknown source,
>>>>>>> specially if long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>> Afraid you might learn something?
>>>>>
>>>>> Not wasting my time
>>>>>
>>>> I'll take that as a yes..
>>>
>>> The more you insist the more I'm convinced I'm right in my decision
>>> to not waste my time with that video.
>>>
>> Classic cancel/denial behaviour.
>> I just wanted to make sure as to whether you were simply misinformed,
>> or prejudiced
>> Now its is clearly the latter, there is no point in presenting
>> rational arguments, so I wont.
>> Bye
> 
> You're refusing to address criticisms of the source you presented and
> basically assuming anyone refusing to watch it falls under a specific
> reasoning you want them to fall under. See a pattern?
> 
No one has presented ant criticism whatsoever,. No one has even watched it.

> It's almost as if you picked that video on purpose so that you could
> react like this.
> 
Its almost as if you decided not to watch it so you could react like this


-- 
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will 
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such 
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic 
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally 
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for 
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the 
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

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#75541

On 10/1/25 02:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-10-01 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 30/09/2025 23:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-09-30 23:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> On 30/09/2025 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>> On 2025-09-30 22:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>> On 30/09/2025 18:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2025-09-30 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 30/09/2025 11:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thus I will refrain from watching his videos till I have a 
>>>>>>>>> reliable source about him.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its a her, dear, not a trans woman. Its a real woman.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wikipedia shows the photo of a man, named Konstantin Vadimovich 
>>>>>>> Kisin.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Konstantin Vadimovich Kisin is a British–Russian political 
>>>>>>> commentator, author and co-host with Francis Foster of the 
>>>>>>> Triggernometry podcast.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are just the hosts. Its the guest that has something to say
>>>>>> So you didn't even get THAT far. There really is no point talking 
>>>>>> to you at all is there?
>>>>>> Mind closed tighter than a duck's arse.
>>>>>
>>>>> I told you: I refuse to watch a video from an unknown source, 
>>>>> specially if long.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why?
>>>> Afraid you might learn something?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not wasting my time
>>>
>> I'll take that as a yes..
>>
> 
> The more you insist the more I'm convinced I'm right in my decision to 
> not waste my time with that video.
> 

	And I strangely enough agree with you that there is not enough
time in a life to watch bad videos made as propaganda for a reactionarly
POV in which pumping the atmosphere full of millions of years of carbon
is considered a "good thing".

	bliss

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#75548

On 01/10/2025 17:25, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
> 
> 
> On 10/1/25 02:20, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-10-01 10:19, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 30/09/2025 23:28, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>> On 2025-09-30 23:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>> On 30/09/2025 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>> On 2025-09-30 22:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>> On 30/09/2025 18:03, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2025-09-30 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 30/09/2025 11:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thus I will refrain from watching his videos till I have a 
>>>>>>>>>> reliable source about him.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Its a her, dear, not a trans woman. Its a real woman.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Wikipedia shows the photo of a man, named Konstantin Vadimovich 
>>>>>>>> Kisin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Konstantin Vadimovich Kisin is a British–Russian political 
>>>>>>>> commentator, author and co-host with Francis Foster of the 
>>>>>>>> Triggernometry podcast.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are just the hosts. Its the guest that has something to say
>>>>>>> So you didn't even get THAT far. There really is no point talking 
>>>>>>> to you at all is there?
>>>>>>> Mind closed tighter than a duck's arse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I told you: I refuse to watch a video from an unknown source, 
>>>>>> specially if long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why?
>>>>> Afraid you might learn something?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not wasting my time
>>>>
>>> I'll take that as a yes..
>>>
>>
>> The more you insist the more I'm convinced I'm right in my decision to 
>> not waste my time with that video.
>>
> 
>      And I strangely enough agree with you that there is not enough
> time in a life to watch bad videos made as propaganda for a reactionarly
> POV in which pumping the atmosphere full of millions of years of carbon
> is considered a "good thing".
> 
Careful bliss.
It isn't a propaganda video and it says nothing about climate change.
Kathryn Porter is a lady with a degree, and a brain who worked in 
finance and then specialised in the economics of energy production.

That you cannot escape your own politically bigoted worldview is sad.
Kathryn is smart, a woman, educated  and British.

Not some dumb MAGA supporter.

>      bliss

-- 
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is 
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

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#75644

On 2025-09-30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 30/09/2025 11:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
[...]
>> Thus I will refrain from watching his videos till I have a reliable
>> source about him.
>>
> Its a her, dear, not a trans woman. Its a real woman.
>
> Yoiu didn't even get that far did you?

It's 90 minutes, the day only has around 24 hours, 16 usable, you don't
get to pick a long video and then attack people for not watching it
fully this way. If Carlos were pretending he did watch, that'd be
something else...

>> And I don't trust right wing sources. I'm tired of their many proven
>> lies in my country.
>
> Its not a 'right wing source.' Its a politically neutral analysis by
> the UKs foremost researcher into energy markets.

[citation needed]

>
> "Kathryn Porter is an independent energy consultant. She holds a
> Master's degree in Physics and an MBA, and is an associate member of
> the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Energy Studies executive council
> "
>
> Your bigotry is now impossible to hide.

Actually, consider that you started this thread to continue debating the
blackout, and you didn't even go further than a single source before
derailing this into this kind of conversation because you outright
refuse any kind of criticism about these sources and immediately react
by claiming it's just "green propaganda".

If I were you, I'd map your opinions to these videos and see which ones
do you owe to these sources, and then try to compare these with reality,
and figure out whether it really is worth investing time in watching
these videos.

There may be place for opinions, but you're insistently trying to argue
against what has been publicly known and the reality of both the
blackout and the power grid in the Iberian peninsula, and also realistic
expectations regarding such complex and critical systems, and insistently
pushing what amounts to far-right propaganda.

The most visible example is your lack of ability to understand that
renewables *are profitable*. And that's not because of subsidies. Those
are private companies operating with profit in a liberalized market.

You may paint PSOE as "far left" because of the name as if you were a US
republican, but not only are you misunderstanding socialist parties in
the Iberian peninsula (some people do see the word "socialist" and go
all nuts), you're also overlooking that the power market has been
liberalized. I wonder how much subsidization could actually fit in such
a model. Not to mention subsidies do not exclude profitability.


And weren't the countries most affected by electricity price rises
caused by the 2022 russian invasion of Ukraine the ones which did not
invest in renewables early?


-- 
Nuno Silva

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#75647

On 03/10/2025 09:50, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-09-30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 30/09/2025 11:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> [...]
>>> Thus I will refrain from watching his videos till I have a reliable
>>> source about him.
>>>
>> Its a her, dear, not a trans woman. Its a real woman.
>>
>> Yoiu didn't even get that far did you?
> 
> It's 90 minutes, the day only has around 24 hours, 16 usable, you don't
> get to pick a long video and then attack people for not watching it
> fully this way. If Carlos were pretending he did watch, that'd be
> something else...
> 
>>> And I don't trust right wing sources. I'm tired of their many proven
>>> lies in my country.
>>
>> Its not a 'right wing source.' Its a politically neutral analysis by
>> the UKs foremost researcher into energy markets.
> 
> [citation needed]
> 
>>
>> "Kathryn Porter is an independent energy consultant. She holds a
>> Master's degree in Physics and an MBA, and is an associate member of
>> the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Energy Studies executive council
>> "
>>
>> Your bigotry is now impossible to hide.
> 
> Actually, consider that you started this thread to continue debating the
> blackout, and you didn't even go further than a single source before
> derailing this into this kind of conversation because you outright
> refuse any kind of criticism about these sources and immediately react
> by claiming it's just "green propaganda".
> 
> If I were you, I'd map your opinions to these videos and see which ones
> do you owe to these sources, and then try to compare these with reality,
> and figure out whether it really is worth investing time in watching
> these videos.
> 
> There may be place for opinions, but you're insistently trying to argue
> against what has been publicly known and the reality of both the
> blackout and the power grid in the Iberian peninsula, and also realistic
> expectations regarding such complex and critical systems, and insistently
> pushing what amounts to far-right propaganda.
> 
> The most visible example is your lack of ability to understand that
> renewables *are profitable*. And that's not because of subsidies. Those
> are private companies operating with profit in a liberalized market.
> 
> You may paint PSOE as "far left" because of the name as if you were a US
> republican, but not only are you misunderstanding socialist parties in
> the Iberian peninsula (some people do see the word "socialist" and go
> all nuts), you're also overlooking that the power market has been
> liberalized. I wonder how much subsidization could actually fit in such
> a model. Not to mention subsidies do not exclude profitability.
> 
> 
> And weren't the countries most affected by electricity price rises
> caused by the 2022 russian invasion of Ukraine the ones which did not
> invest in renewables early?
> 
> 
No. The most affected country was Germany land of solar panels and 
windmills.
I am not going to bother further with this conversation. knocking on 
closed minds thet refuse to consider anything other than fixed ideas is 
a pointless exercise.


-- 
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will 
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such 
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic 
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally 
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for 
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the 
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels

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#75656

On 2025-10-03 10:50, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-09-30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 30/09/2025 11:33, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> [...]
>>> Thus I will refrain from watching his videos till I have a reliable
>>> source about him.
>>>
>> Its a her, dear, not a trans woman. Its a real woman.
>>
>> Yoiu didn't even get that far did you?
> 
> It's 90 minutes, the day only has around 24 hours, 16 usable, you don't
> get to pick a long video and then attack people for not watching it
> fully this way. If Carlos were pretending he did watch, that'd be
> something else...
> 
>>> And I don't trust right wing sources. I'm tired of their many proven
>>> lies in my country.
>>
>> Its not a 'right wing source.' Its a politically neutral analysis by
>> the UKs foremost researcher into energy markets.
> 
> [citation needed]
> 
>>
>> "Kathryn Porter is an independent energy consultant. She holds a
>> Master's degree in Physics and an MBA, and is an associate member of
>> the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Energy Studies executive council
>> "
>>
>> Your bigotry is now impossible to hide.
> 
> Actually, consider that you started this thread to continue debating the
> blackout, and you didn't even go further than a single source before
> derailing this into this kind of conversation because you outright
> refuse any kind of criticism about these sources and immediately react
> by claiming it's just "green propaganda".

And he turned to personal insults on me, on the other thread. This is 
very low, turning a political discussion personal.
> If I were you, I'd map your opinions to these videos and see which ones
> do you owe to these sources, and then try to compare these with reality,
> and figure out whether it really is worth investing time in watching
> these videos.
> 
> There may be place for opinions, but you're insistently trying to argue
> against what has been publicly known and the reality of both the
> blackout and the power grid in the Iberian peninsula, and also realistic
> expectations regarding such complex and critical systems, and insistently
> pushing what amounts to far-right propaganda.
> 
> The most visible example is your lack of ability to understand that
> renewables *are profitable*. And that's not because of subsidies. Those
> are private companies operating with profit in a liberalized market.
> 
> You may paint PSOE as "far left" because of the name as if you were a US
> republican, but not only are you misunderstanding socialist parties in
> the Iberian peninsula (some people do see the word "socialist" and go
> all nuts), you're also overlooking that the power market has been
> liberalized. I wonder how much subsidization could actually fit in such
> a model. Not to mention subsidies do not exclude profitability.

In Spain, the PSOE has been criticized for being "too right", for often 
doing the same things as the PP, the right wing party. We call them both 
PPSOE for something.

Arguably, the PSOE has turned a bit more leftie in the last years; after 
all, they hold the government in coalition with communists look alike 
parties.

Traditionally, the two big parties try to hold the center, but currently 
the PP has turned extreme right in some of their says, to try to compete 
with the far right party, VOX.


> And weren't the countries most affected by electricity price rises
> caused by the 2022 russian invasion of Ukraine the ones which did not
> invest in renewables early?
> 
> 


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75643

On 2025-09-29, Carlos E.R. wrote:

> On 2025-09-29 21:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA
>>>
>>>
>> Too long.

Besides the concern below, and certain keywords in the video metadata
and thumbnail that make it highly likely that this is just 90 minutes of
far-right nonsense, is there a transcript one could read instead of
having to go through 90 minutes of this?

> Not trustable.
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Konstantin_Kisin
>
> 'Right-wing wokeism' and Soviet Trauma
>
> Can anyone look into & add some details on what is, in MY view at
> least, clearly a STRONG bias towards (alt-?)rightist & conservative
> points of view? To what extent (insofar at all, of course) is Kisin
> running the risk of achieving exactly the OPPOSITE of what he CLAIMS
> to stand/aim for, by actually *fanning* the flames of the modern day
> societal strife that we are dealing with, e.g. by being (overly?)
> critical of being 'woke'? How much does he NOT actually appreciate
> Western society for what it is, and only help to dramatize matters and
> potentially bring very important things (such as institutions) down,
> even further? In the worst case, (someone like) Kisin is actually
> DELIBERATELY doing this sort of thing, out of convictions that might
> be more or less well communicated to, or rather hidden from the
> public. Perhaps it is a form of lingering trauma from living with
> Soviet and immediate post-Soviet trauma - that does NOT give him the
> right NOR credits to actually *undermine* Western society, though. It
> would do the overall integrity of Wikipedia well to address this
> matter specifically, though only insofar it can occur in as neutral a
> manner as possible, of course.

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#75655

On 2025-10-03 10:21, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-09-29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> On 2025-09-29 21:49, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Too long.
> 
> Besides the concern below, and certain keywords in the video metadata
> and thumbnail that make it highly likely that this is just 90 minutes of
> far-right nonsense, is there a transcript one could read instead of
> having to go through 90 minutes of this?

Indeed. I might read a transcript, but I certainly will not watch a 90 
minutes video. Only if praised by more people or sources.

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75475

On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA

You could instead read this one. Known bias.

"This is the report paid for by Iberdrola and Endesa. Coincidentally, it 
was presented three days before the official ENTSOe report."

No blame on renewables.


<https://www.comillas.edu/noticias/el-iit-presenta-un-informe-preliminar-que-analiza-las-causas-del-apagon-del-pasado-mes-de-abril/>

The IIT presents a preliminary report analysing the causes of last 
April's blackout
29 September 2025

Large voltage fluctuations, low synchronous generation and a weak 
transmission network are some of the causes

The Institute for Technological Research (IIT) at Comillas Pontifical 
University—one of Europe's leading electrical systems research 
centres—has today published an independent preliminary report analysing 
the causes of the blackout that left the Iberian Peninsula without power 
on 28 April. The document, prepared by professors Luis Rouco, Enrique 
Lobato and Francisco M. Echavarren, concludes that the blackout was the 
result of a combination of voltage instability in the previous days, 
insufficient synchronous generation, an insufficient safety margin 
against overvoltage collapse and a weak transmission network, aggravated 
by the disconnection of renewable generation and operational manoeuvres 
that reduced the safety margin.


The analysis reveals that synchronous generation (mainly combined cycle 
and nuclear power plants) in the southern and central areas was 
unusually low, with only one combined cycle plant in Andalusia and one 
nuclear plant in the centre. In addition, more than a third of the 400 
kV grid was disconnected for maintenance or voltage control, leading to 
poorly damped oscillations.

The report introduces the concept of ‘overvoltage collapse’, a 
phenomenon unprecedented in Europe, where voltage increases 
uncontrollably when renewable generation is disconnected. It adds that 
the cascading overvoltage that occurred is unprecedented in the European 
electricity system.

The researchers also emphasise that the manoeuvres carried out by Red 
Eléctrica de España between 12:00 and 12:30 —connecting lines to try to 
dampen the oscillations— further reduced the safety margin, accelerating 
the collapse of the system.

The IIT recommends reviewing the criteria for synchronous generation 
scheduling and voltage control procedures, especially in scenarios of 
high renewable penetration, and urges the use of more advanced metrics 
to anticipate risk situations. The report also highlights the importance 
of strengthening coordination between the various players in the 
electricity sector and adapting the operation of the system to the new 
challenges of the energy transition, with the massive integration of 
renewables.


Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75485

On 30/09/2025 18:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> You could instead read this one. Known bias.
> 
> "This is the report paid for by Iberdrola and Endesa. Coincidentally, it 
> was presented three days before the official ENTSOe report."
> 
> No blame on renewables.
> 
Of course. They were *paid* to say that. Your naievete is simply 
astonishing.


-- 
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on 
its shoes.

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#75649

On 2025-09-30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 30/09/2025 18:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> You could instead read this one. Known bias.
>>
>> "This is the report paid for by Iberdrola and
>> Endesa. Coincidentally, it was presented three days before the
>> official ENTSOe report."
>>
>> No blame on renewables.
>>
> Of course. They were *paid* to say that. Your naievete is simply
> astonishing.

I think that is what "Known bias." was about...

-- 
Nuno Silva

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#75650

On 03/10/2025 10:48, Nuno Silva wrote:
> On 2025-09-30, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> 
>> On 30/09/2025 18:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> You could instead read this one. Known bias.
>>>
>>> "This is the report paid for by Iberdrola and
>>> Endesa. Coincidentally, it was presented three days before the
>>> official ENTSOe report."
>>>
>>> No blame on renewables.
>>>
>> Of course. They were *paid* to say that. Your naievete is simply
>> astonishing.
> 
> I think that is what "Known bias." was about...
> 
Your naivete is simply astonishing.
-- 
"Anyone who believes that the laws of physics are mere social 
conventions is invited to try transgressing those conventions from the 
windows of my apartment. (I live on the twenty-first floor.) "

Alan Sokal

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#75477

On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA
> 
> 
Or you could read other accepted reports, including the official one (posted previously on sci.electronics.design)


<https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jun/17/expert-report-rules-out-cyber-attack-for-spain-and-portugal-april-blackout>

     *Spanish minister rules out cyber-attack as cause of April blackout, after expert report*

     System failure caused by network’s inability to control grid voltage said to be behind outage in Spain and Portugal


     The unprecedented blackout that brought the Iberian peninsula to a standstill at the end of April was caused by surging voltages triggering “a chain reaction of disconnections” that shut down the power network, an expert report commissioned by the Spanish government has found.

     Speaking to reporters on Tuesday afternoon, the country’s environment minister, Sara Aagesen, ruled out a cyber-attack as the cause of the outage on 28 April, saying it had been down to a “multifactorial” system failure caused by the network’s inability to control grid voltage.


     (read the rest on the link if desired, it is in English)


<https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62d8k8edgxo>

     *Spain's government blames huge blackout on grid regulator and private firms*
     3 hours ago
     Guy Hedgecoe
     BBC News in Madrid

     The Spanish government has said that the national grid operator and private power generation companies were to blame for an energy blackout that caused widespread chaos in Spain and Portugal earlier this year.

     ...

     Nearly two months after the unprecedented outage, the minister for ecological transition, Sara Aagesen, has presented a report on its causes.

     She said the partly state-owned grid operator, Red Eléctrica, had miscalculated the power capacity needs for that day, explaining that the "system did not have enough dynamic voltage capacity".

     The regulator should have switched on another thermal plant, she said, but "they made their calculations and decided that it was not necessary".

     Aagesen also blamed private generators for failing to regulate the grid's voltage shortly before the blackout happened.

     "Generation firms which were supposed to control voltage and which, in addition, were paid to do just that did not absorb all the voltage they were supposed to when tension was high," she said, without naming any of the companies responsible.


     (read the rest on the link if desired, it is in English)



<https://www.eldiario.es/economia/informe-apagon-detecta-centrales-no-estaban-regulando-tension-desconexion-indebida-instalaciones_1_12391582.html>

Translated article (by DeepL)

     *The blackout report detects power plants that ‘were not regulating voltage’ and an ‘undue’ disconnection of installations.*


         The historic energy blackout was due to ‘a combination of factors’: there were plants “available” to regulate voltage that were not doing so ‘according to the regulations’ and there were plants that were disconnected ‘improperly’, according to Aagesen
      - The government gives an ultimatum to the electricity sector due to its delays in providing data on the blackout.

     Antonio M. Vélez
      17 June 2025 13:58 h Updated 17/06/2025 17:02 h
     14-18 minutes

     A phenomenon of ‘overvoltages’ and a ‘chain reaction’ caused by ‘a combination of factors’ of several agents in the sector, with a plant that is not available and Red Eléctrica (REE) does not decide to replace it; generation plants that ‘were not regulating voltage’ as required by the regulations and an ‘improper’ disconnection of facilities. These are the causes of the historic blackout on 28 April, as explained this Tuesday by the Third Vice-President and Minister for Ecological Transition, Sara Aagesen.

     At a press conference after presenting the report drawn up by the committee investigating the very serious energy blackout, approved this morning by the National Security Council, Aagesen explained that one of the causes of the blackout is that the system ‘did not have sufficient voltage control capacity’.

     The thermal generation groups that had to do so, ‘many of them’ paid financially, ‘did not contribute’ to doing so because the plants ‘were not programmed’ properly. It should be remembered that for at least five years the National Commission for Markets and Competition (CNMC) has been planning to approve a regulation to regulate this issue. The current one is ‘obsolete’, as the regulator itself has acknowledged.

      Aagesen insisted that ‘there are several causes’ of the blackout. One of them is ‘poor voltage regulation capacity’, due to ‘poor planning’ or because ‘some operators’ were not complying with the regulations.

     The result of this deficient voltage control is that this parameter ‘did not stop rising’ that morning and the disconnections of plants began. Also the ‘smaller’ ones, which the system operator, REE, ‘cannot see because they are in the distribution network’. After a first disconnection in Granada and those already known in Badajoz and Seville, there are more disconnections that had not been revealed until now in Segovia, Huelva and Cáceres.

     According to Aagesen, ‘some of these disconnections occurred improperly’, i.e. before reaching the overvoltage levels allowed by the regulations, and other disconnections occurred ‘within the authorised limits to protect the installations’. And from there to a massive ‘blackout’ within five seconds, with a ‘chain reaction’ against which there was ‘nothing to be done’.

     In the first phase of voltage instability, on the eve of the blackout, REE asked 10 power plants ‘spread throughout the territory’ that were not matched by the market to enter the so-called system of technical restrictions in order to control the voltage. But that Sunday afternoon, one of the planned plants was declared ‘unavailable’.

     Faced with this change, the system operator has to ‘readjust’ and decides to ‘reschedule but not replace’ that plant: it only does so at dawn. The report does not identify this plant because it is ‘anonymised’ at the express request of the companies, according to sources from Transición Ecológica.

     The Vice-President called for ‘reflection’ by ‘all the agents’ in the electricity system but did not want to point out responsibilities, which is something that will occur in ‘the next phase’: it will be ‘the administrative and judicial procedures’ that will have to establish them, in reference to the decisions that the CNMC may take and the proceedings that are already underway in the National Court.

     On the day of the blackout, from 10.30 a.m. onwards, voltage instability intensified, although ‘within the limits’ set by the regulations, with various calls from the control centres. At 12:03 a.m. an ‘atypical’ oscillation arrived, with a higher than normal frequency.

     The system operator links it to ‘a specific installation and its anomalous behaviour’; it takes “effective” measures to dampen it but the ‘meshing of the grids’ and the low demand contribute to ‘an increase in voltage’; it also reduces the export of energy to France, which means that generation in Spain falls and voltage rises.

     At 12.16 this oscillation reappears and ‘dampens again’. Another oscillation occurs at 12.19 which is absorbed and the result is a negative effect ‘on system voltage’. It is decided to connect a power plant in the southern zone but it will take ‘an hour and a half’ to connect. And the disconnections of plants begin.

     Aagesen announced that the next Council of Ministers will approve a Royal Decree-Law with a package of measures to ensure that the incident ‘does not happen again’. It will ‘accelerate the implementation’ of the National Energy Commission (CNE) announced more than a year ago; the ‘supervision and verification’ of system agents will be strengthened, storage will be promoted and the CNMC will approve these regulations to allow renewables to control voltage, as requested by REE in 2021.

     Aagesen explained that in the analysis of the operation of the system, more than 100 requests for information were made, with more than 700 requests and millions of data in 170 GB of information.

     The report includes a first phase of voltage instabilities, also in the ‘days prior’ to the blackout, a second phase of system oscillations (in the half hour prior to the outage), another of generation losses, and the subsequent collapse of the electricity system. A ‘complex, delicate’ analysis with “contradictory” data and ‘information that in the end has not arrived’. These ‘omissions’ have been ‘made explicit in the report’ that will be published this afternoon.

     From the point of view of cybersecurity, it has been concluded that ‘there is no evidence of cyber-incident or cyber-attack as a cause of the energy crisis, neither in the operator nor at the different levels’.

     However, ‘vulnerabilities’ and ‘shortcomings’ have been identified in the systems in the face of potential risks that will be “exploited” to issue recommendations for the future, following ‘the largest investigation into cybersecurity that has ever taken place in our country’, with more than 1600 hours of work, more than a thousand IP, more than 133 GB and fourteen operators analysed: from the system operator to the more than 30 control centres of the distributors throughout the country; and a third level ‘of detail’ of the generation facilities.

     Some conclusions will be brought to the attention of the CNMC: those issues that should be brought to the CNMC's attention. The report, due to a ‘confidentiality obligation’ has “anonymised” information, ‘on most occasions’ at the request of the actors involved. Aagesen is due to appear before the Official Secrets Committee this week.

     The report has been presented 49 days after the blackout, ‘practically half the time Europe gives to present its report to the EU’ and much earlier than expected.

     Aagesen had promised that the document would be ready within three months of the incident, but in recent days (in parallel to the explosion of the scandal of alleged corruption of Santos Cerdán, now ex-Secretary of Organisation of the PSOE) the meetings of the inter-ministerial committee investigating the outage have accelerated. The last meetings were held last Friday, Sunday and Monday.

     In total, this body chaired by Aagesen and made up of ‘state professionals of recognised prestige’ was created on 30 April. It is made up of several ministries and has held 14 meetings since this historic Iberian zero, which has provoked cross accusations between the electricity companies (particularly Iberdrola) and the system operator, against the backdrop of the multi-million dollar compensation at stake.

     On 4 June, the committee went so far as to write to the electricity companies to express its ‘concern’ about the slowness in sending certain information, which led aelec, which includes Iberdrola and Endesa, to state that it is ‘absolutely false’ that they were ‘hiding information’ about the blackout, although these two companies acknowledged that they had some requests for data pending to be answered.

     The committee is made up of several ministries, in addition to Ecological Transition (Economy, Defence, Interior...) and organisations such as the National Cryptologic Centre and the Defence Staff. The Nuclear Safety Council (CSN) and the CNMC, which will also draw up its own report, will be ‘invited’. In addition to this document, as required by EU regulations, the European transmission operators' association ENTSO-e, of which REE is a member, will draw up its own report.


     Translated with DeepL.com (free version)


-------------


The report was written by a committee of experts. Fifty, I think.

      The committee studying the blackout is made up of representatives of the Ministry for Ecological Transition and the
       Demographic Challenge (MITECO), the Presidency of the Government, the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of the
       Interior. Specifically, the Department of Homeland Security, the National Intelligence Centre, the General Staff and the
       National Centre for the Protection of Critical Infrastructure are involved.

https://www.miteco.gob.es/es/prensa/ultimas-noticias/2025/abril/el-gobierno-crea-el-comite-para-el-analisis-de-la-crisis-de-elec.html
#:~:text=Adem%C3%A1s%20del%20MITECO%2C%20el%20Comit%C3%A9%20est%C3%A1%20integrado,medio%20del%20Centro%20Nacional%20de%20Protecci%C3
       %B3n%20de [www.miteco.gob.es]


       The blackout, which occurred on 28 April 2025, affected the Iberian Peninsula, including Spain, Portugal and Andorra, and
       extended as far south as France. The power outage caused disruptions to essential services such as hospitals, airports and
       telecommunications networks. The causes of the blackout are being investigated by this committee.


-------------



The Spain's government has written a decree with a long list of things and regulations related to all this. It is long and I only heard of it on the radio, did not take notes, but among many things they are promoting the installation of batteries on solar/wind sites.

Article in Spanish: <https://www.energias-renovables.com/panorama/estas-son-todas-las-claves-del-real-20250624>

Antonio Barrero F.

The Council of Ministers yesterday approved a Royal Decree-Law containing ‘urgent measures to reinforce the electricity system’. But not only. Because, apart from arriving by way of urgency (and hand in hand with the extraordinary blackout of 28A), the RDL presented this Tuesday by the Executive includes a whole battery of measures to accelerate the energy transition. So simple. Among them...? Well, measures to promote self-consumption (extending the radius from 2 to 5 kilometres), measures for the deployment of the heat pump (tax relief on IBI and ICIO), storage (speeding up procedures), energy communities (the RDL includes the figure of the collective self-consumption manager) and independent aggregators.

Making a virtue of necessity. Spain went to zero on 28 April and, two months later, on 24 June, the government is putting its foot down on the accelerator of the energy transition to avoid similar events in the future... but not only. This is the feeling that the RDL approved by the Council of Ministers has left for the moment (the small print of the Royal Decree-Law will have to be read slowly when it is published). In any case, that is the feeling: that the government has done with the stroke of a pen what it should have done much earlier. Or what it should have been doing over the last two years. For example? Extending the radius of self-consumption, something that everyone has been agreeing on for a long time. For example? Develop the figure of the independent aggregator, which has long been demanded by the vast majority of the sector's agents. For example? Regulating the figure of the self-consumption manager (we will have to read the RDL slowly).

Be that as it may, it seems that many measures that had long been in the drawer have now finally seen the light of day... at the stroke of a blackout. Because that has been the pretext. Last week, the government presented its report on the energy zero, a report in which it apportioned blame (probably with a small mouth) between the system operator, Red Eléctrica, and the electricity companies (Iberdrola, Endesa and company); and announced at the same time that it would present this week, as it has done, a RDL with a whole battery of measures to prevent (and avoid) future zeroes and, incidentally, to speed up the energy transition.

And that is indeed what the Minister for Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge, Sara Aagesen, announced on Tuesday: a RDL containing, to begin with

(1) measures to control compliance with the obligations of the different agents (roughly so that what happened on 28 January, according to Red Eléctrica, does not happen again: the electricity companies did not comply with their obligation to control the voltage, despite the fact that they are obliged to do so, and despite the fact that, moreover, they are paid for it);

(2) measures for the inclusion of new tools to reinforce the system; and

(3) measures to boost electrification, storage and flexibility.

All these issues,‘ explains the Ministry, ’are the result of the work of the Committee for the analysis of the circumstances of the electricity crisis of 28 April.

Sara Aagesen, Minister for Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge: "the objective of strengthening the resilience of our electricity system takes on special relevance in the current context, a complex and geopolitically very, very complicated context. Promoting the energy transition, promoting the electrification of industrial demand, sustainable mobility, the entry of more innovative technologies and solutions, such as storage and flexibility, allows us to create a more robust, more solvent system, with more stable and predictable bills for citizens, the self-employed, SMEs and our industry. In short, more strategic autonomy in a complex, uncertain and volatile world".

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

-------------


<https://elperiodicodelaenergia.com/el-gobierno-aprueba-la-instalacion-de-compensadores-sincronos-y-refuerza-la-interconexion-con-francia/>

Energy policy

*The Government approves the installation of synchronous compensators and reinforces the interconnection with France*

The 65 actions are aimed at incorporating additional tools into the networks to facilitate voltage control, stability in the event of oscillations and, in general, to reinforce the electricity system
Redacción

Editorial staff

07/08/2025

The Council of Ministers, at the request of the Ministry for Ecological Transition and the Demographic Challenge (Miteco), has approved a list of specific actions to increase the resilience of the electricity grid, which will be incorporated as a new Specific Modification to the Development Plan for the Electricity Transmission Grid 2021-2026, the second, after the one implemented in 2024. The list includes 65 actions aimed at incorporating additional tools into the grids to facilitate voltage control, stability in the event of fluctuations and, in general, the reinforcement of the electricity system, both on the Spanish mainland and in the Canary Islands and Balearic Islands.

The actions include the installation of synchronous compensators for the first time on the mainland, as well as the incorporation of new units on the islands. These devices provide dynamic voltage control and, given their local nature, are distributed geographically to reinforce it in the different areas, complementing the equipment and solutions that the system already has for this function.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

... You can read the rest on the link if desired.



-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75486

On 30/09/2025 18:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> System failure caused by network’s inability to control grid voltage 
> said to be behind outage in Spain and Portugal

And the reason the grid could not be controlled is the amount of 
renewable energy that was online.

-- 
A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on 
its shoes.

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#75488

On 2025-09-30 22:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 30/09/2025 18:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>> System failure caused by network’s inability to control grid voltage 
>> said to be behind outage in Spain and Portugal
> 
> And the reason the grid could not be controlled is the amount of 
> renewable energy that was online.
> 

ROTFL

-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75495

On 30/09/2025 21:22, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-09-30 22:14, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 30/09/2025 18:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
>>> System failure caused by network’s inability to control grid voltage 
>>> said to be behind outage in Spain and Portugal
>>
>> And the reason the grid could not be controlled is the amount of 
>> renewable energy that was online.
>>
> 
> ROTFL
> 
I love a good denier in the mornimg

-- 
“It is hard to imagine a more stupid decision or more dangerous way of 
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people 
who pay no price for being wrong.”

Thomas Sowell

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#75653 — Re: OT: report by the European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E) [Was: The real story of the Iberian blackout]

On 2025-09-30 19:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA
>>
>>
> Or you could read other accepted reports, including the official one 
> (posted previously on sci.electronics.design)
Other reports just published:


Summary: over voltage. We need a new EU regulation covering that. 
Renewables were not to be blamed.

Using DeepL automated translation.

     «The report notes that the blackout, a unique event in the world, 
was due to a “surge cascade” that began in southern Spain and spread 
throughout the peninsula in a matter of minutes. “The problem here is 
not that there were renewables, but that we need generation that has 
voltage control. The good news is that this can be done in the same way 
as in conventional generation,” explained Entso-E president Damián 
Cortinas, when asked about the responsibility of green generation sources.»

     «As explained by the president of ENTSO-E, this “factual report” 
does not seek to place “any responsibility” on any agent in the sector, 
but rather to trace a “sequence” of events.

     When asked about the role of renewable energies in the blackout, 
Cortinas pointed out that “the question is not whether or not there are 
renewables,” but rather how voltage control was carried out on the grid 
that day, which he cited as one of the key issues that would explain the 
historic blackout. According to the report prepared by REE, there were 
“breaches” by the generators in this voltage control. But the government 
also pointed to “insufficient” planning by REE the day before in 
selecting the power plants that were to control voltage (and charge for 
it).»


<https://www.eldiario.es/economia/expertos-europeos-no-senalan-ahora-responsables-apagon-comparten-relato-gobierno_1_12653785.html>

     *European experts have not yet identified those responsible for the 
blackout and agree with the government's account*

         The ENTSO-E “final report” will be presented in early 2026 with 
a “detailed analysis” of the “root causes” of the blackout, for which 
data is still lacking: they will analyze how voltage control was carried 
out that day and the “local oscillation” that caused a large Iberdrola 
photovoltaic plant to fail at 12:03 p.m.
         — The blackout report detects power plants that “were not 
regulating voltage” and an “improper” disconnection of facilities


     Antonio M. Vélez / Rodrigo Ponce de León  October 3, 2025, 11:01 
a.m.  Updated on 10/03/2025, 11:37 a.m.

     European experts from the European Network of Transmission System 
Operators for Electricity (ENTSO-E), who, in accordance with EU 
regulations, presented their “factual report” this Friday on the 
historic blackout of April 28, have not yet identified those responsible 
for the incident and have presented a sequence of events similar to that 
in the report prepared at the time by the Spanish government, which 
indicated that it was a “multifactorial” event.

     The report by the European Network of Transmission System Operators 
for Electricity, of which Red Eléctrica (REE) is a member, which the 
electricity companies blame for the blackout, gives itself a period of 
“four months” from the publication of this “factual report” to publish a 
“final report” in the first quarter of 2026. This is because some 
information is still missing.

      The report notes that, 158 days after the serious incident that 
left the entire Iberian Peninsula in darkness, “some data is still 
missing, particularly related to some of the generation losses that 
occurred before the blackout.”

     “Although Red Eléctrica (the Spanish TSO) obtained the consent of 
33 generation companies and DSOs (referring to distribution companies, 
mainly Iberdrola, Endesa, and Naturgy) to share relevant data, eight 
others did not give their consent.”

     During the presentation of the report, ENTSO-E officials indicated 
that they had encountered “significant difficulties” in obtaining 
information from several generating companies in Spain, according to 
Kaschnitz. It should be remembered that in June, the government sent 
letters to the sector expressing its ‘concern’ about the “slowdown” in 
the submission of data for the report that was then being prepared by an 
interministerial commission.

      This final report by ENTSO-E will include a “detailed analysis” of 
the “root causes,” the “voltage control” carried out on the grid that 
day by the generators, “the behavior of different actors during the 
incident,” and some “additional” comments.

     Among them, on the causes of the “local oscillation” which, as 
revealed by elDiario.es, was at the origin of the blackout and was 
caused by Iberdrola's Núñez de Balboa mega-photovoltaic plant at 12:03 
that morning (which the report does not mention). This oscillation was 
an “unusual” phenomenon, as pointed out by the Austrian expert who 
co-led the panel, Klaus Kaschnitz.

     The report notes that the blackout, a unique event in the world, 
was due to a “surge cascade” that began in southern Spain and spread 
throughout the peninsula in a matter of minutes. “The problem here is 
not that there were renewables, but that we need generation that has 
voltage control. The good news is that this can be done in the same way 
as in conventional generation,” explained Entso-E president Damián 
Cortinas, when asked about the responsibility of green generation sources.

     The ENTSO-E report explains that the morning of April 28, 2025, was 
characterized by “increasing renewable generation,” which led to “a 
decrease in daily market prices and an increase in exports from Spain” 
to a total of five gigawatts. From 9:00 a.m., voltage variability in 
Spain began to increase until shortly after 10:30 a.m., “when the 
voltage in part of the 400 kV transmission network briefly approached, 
but did not exceed, 435 kV,” within the permitted values.

     The Austrian expert who coordinated the report explained that April 
28 was a “typical spring day” with high photovoltaic penetration, and 
that from 10:30 a.m. onwards, “significant” voltage variations began in 
Spain, but within the accepted values. He also explained that on the eve 
of the blackout, a generation unit that was supposed to provide voltage 
control was declared unavailable, and REE decided to replace it with 
another unit but ultimately chose not to use it.

     The report confirms that there were no “significant oscillations” 
in the grid until 12:03 p.m., when the first oscillation began, which 
the government and REE reports attributed (without expressly citing it) 
to the Núñez de Balboa megaplant.

     This was an initial oscillation of a “local nature” preceded by a 
second, broader oscillation of an inter-area nature, corresponding to 
the East-Central-West zone of the European electricity system. The 
measures taken by the system operators in Spain, Portugal, and France 
(including a reduction in the flow of energy between Spain and France) 
mitigated these oscillations, but led to an increase in voltage in the 
Iberian system, although still “within operational values.”

     Subsequently, once facilities began to disconnect, “given that some 
generation units were consuming reactive power,” the opposite of what 
they were supposed to do, “with the effect of reducing voltage, the 
disconnections of these units without adequate compensation for the loss 
of reactive power by other system resources with the capacity to 
inject/absorb reactive power led to an increase in voltages in the 
system, not only in Spain but also in Portugal.”

     Starting at 12:32 p.m., within a span of 57 seconds, 208 MW of wind 
and solar power in northern and southern Spain, which correspond to the 
distribution network, were disconnected. There was an increase in the 
net load on the distribution networks of around 317 MW, which “could” be 
due to the disconnection of small self-consumption installations, 
although the reasons are “unknown.” The voltage began to rise “really 
fast,” explained the Austrian expert.

     From 12:32:57 p.m. onwards, there were major power disconnections 
in Granada, Badajoz, Seville, Huelva, and Cáceres. At least 2 gigawatts 
were lost, milliseconds after the protection devices of a transformer in 
Granada, which connects several generation facilities there and was 
injecting 355 MW at the time, were triggered.


     Reasons “unknown”

     Another 725 MW of photovoltaic and solar thermal power was then 
lost in Badajoz, along with wind and solar disconnections in Segovia, 
Huelva, Badajoz, Seville, and Cáceres for another 1,200 MW. “Some of 
these disconnections were due to surge protection,” but the reasons for 
“most of them are unknown,” the document says.

     Between 12:33:18 and 12:33:21, the voltage in southern Spain rose 
sharply and, as a result, also in Portugal. The overvoltage caused a 
cascade of generation losses, which led to a decrease in the frequency 
of the Spanish and Portuguese electricity systems. At 12:33:19, the 
Spanish and Portuguese electricity systems began to lose synchronism 
with the rest of the European system, the interconnections with Morocco 
and France were tripped, and absolute zero occurred.

     This report will be supplemented by the one being prepared by the 
Spanish regulator, the National Commission for Markets and Competition 
(CNMC), which has also participated in this panel of experts.

     As explained by the president of ENTSO-E, this “factual report” 
does not seek to place “any responsibility” on any agent in the sector, 
but rather to trace a “sequence” of events.

     When asked about the role of renewable energies in the blackout, 
Cortinas pointed out that “the question is not whether or not there are 
renewables,” but rather how voltage control was carried out on the grid 
that day, which he cited as one of the key issues that would explain the 
historic blackout. According to the report prepared by REE, there were 
“breaches” by the generators in this voltage control. But the government 
also pointed to “insufficient” planning by REE the day before in 
selecting the power plants that were to control voltage (and charge for it).

     The report was prepared by a panel of 45 experts, the largest ever 
formed, including both system operators and national regulators from 
across Europe, and was led by two experts from Austria and Hungary. 
After five months of “intense work,” it will form the basis for 
recommendations to be implemented in the near future.





-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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#75654 — Re: OT: report by the The Institute for Technological Research (IIT) at Comillas Pontifical University [Was: The real story of the Iberian blackout]

On 2025-09-30 19:19, Carlos E.R. wrote:
> On 2025-09-29 20:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzCiEHGVMwA
>>
>>
> Or you could read other accepted reports, including the official one 
> (posted previously on sci.electronics.design)
Other reports just published:



"This is the report paid for by Iberdrola and Endesa. Coincidentally, it 
was presented three days before the official ENTSOe report."

No blame on renewables.


<https://www.comillas.edu/noticias/el-iit-presenta-un-informe-preliminar-que-analiza-las-causas-del-apagon-del-pasado-mes-de-abril/>

     The IIT presents a preliminary report analysing the causes of last 
April's blackout
     29 September 2025

     Large voltage fluctuations, low synchronous generation and a weak 
transmission network are some of the causes

     The Institute for Technological Research (IIT) at Comillas 
Pontifical University—one of Europe's leading electrical systems 
research centres—has today published an independent preliminary report 
analysing the causes of the blackout that left the Iberian Peninsula 
without power on 28 April. The document, prepared by professors Luis 
Rouco, Enrique Lobato and Francisco M. Echavarren, concludes that the 
blackout was the result of a combination of voltage instability in the 
previous days, insufficient synchronous generation, an insufficient 
safety margin against overvoltage collapse and a weak transmission 
network, aggravated by the disconnection of renewable generation and 
operational manoeuvres that reduced the safety margin.


     The analysis reveals that synchronous generation (mainly combined 
cycle and nuclear power plants) in the southern and central areas was 
unusually low, with only one combined cycle plant in Andalusia and one 
nuclear plant in the centre. In addition, more than a third of the 400 
kV grid was disconnected for maintenance or voltage control, leading to 
poorly damped oscillations.

     The report introduces the concept of ‘overvoltage collapse’, a 
phenomenon unprecedented in Europe, where voltage increases 
uncontrollably when renewable generation is disconnected. It adds that 
the cascading overvoltage that occurred is unprecedented in the European 
electricity system.

     The researchers also emphasise that the manoeuvres carried out by 
Red Eléctrica de España between 12:00 and 12:30 —connecting lines to try 
to dampen the oscillations— further reduced the safety margin, 
accelerating the collapse of the system.

     The IIT recommends reviewing the criteria for synchronous 
generation scheduling and voltage control procedures, especially in 
scenarios of high renewable penetration, and urges the use of more 
advanced metrics to anticipate risk situations. The report also 
highlights the importance of strengthening coordination between the 
various players in the electricity sector and adapting the operation of 
the system to the new challenges of the energy transition, with the 
massive integration of renewables.



Translated with DeepL.com (free version)


-- 
Cheers, Carlos.
ES🇪🇸, EU🇪🇺;

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